Thais Are Divided Over Royal Pardon For Thaksin

[Sao Jiang Mai]

Imagine a really famous pop star committing murder. If a million fans petition HM can this pop star get off the hook? It's a moot point. And HM should never never be put in that situation. The law is the law...jeesh.

[Ga-gai]

If Thaksin at least could come back and let the justice have it's way. If he's then found guilty, the Red Shirts could try to seek royal pardon for him. And still... What is two years prison after doing billions of Baht from corruption? That's cheap!

[Samuian]

Imagine a really famous pop star committing murder. If a million fans petition HM can this pop star get off the hook? It's a moot point. And HM should never never be put in that situation. The law is the law...jeesh.

Well, are you referring to.... someone ... who has shown that this bounce

IS possible, someone who recently talks a lot as the "spokesman" of the man discussed here?

[ballpoint]

Maybe they could behead him and his family, up to seven generations, and then pardon him.

[asiasurfer]

Ferwert,

Yes, I absolutely agree with your points. But I especially wanna comment on point #1.

The only way to get some objective information about Thai politics is actually in the foreign media (e.g. The Economist, etc…). The coup of 2006 was actually heavily criticised by the media outside Thailand and it was generally assumed that it was politically motivated. They also accused the Elite of the Thai military to serve its own interests. The King had little choice but to endorse the coup in order to keep the peace.

Now there is a government in power, Thai people have never voted for. Voices of Thaksin’s supporters remain unheard with the current government. Protests are forbidden and Thaksin supporters are being muted. The 2006 coup has done nothing else but thrown the country into unrest and instability. The way the current government came into power had nothing to do with democracy. And again, here it is useful to look at the foreign media to obtain more objective information. The media in Thailand seems to be biased and expresses one-sided views.

Just a note on Thaksin’s corruption charges: I don’t think Thaksin was more corrupt than most other politicians or officials in Thailand – past or present. Mind you! Just look at the UK, whereas some MPs are filling their pockets with money which doesn’t belong to them. Corruption is just everywhere…

[Gary A]

It amazes me that so many people think Thaksin is the MOST corrupt politician and others are not. The corruption is so common and widespread that few if any are clean. It's simply the way things work in the good ole boy's network. You don't tell on me and I won't tell on you.

[Sandstone Art]

If Thaksin at least could come back and let the justice have it's way. If he's then found guilty, the Red Shirts could try to seek royal pardon for him. And still... What is two years prison after doing billions of Baht from corruption? That's cheap!

If Thaksin is ever locked up, with all those cases pile up against him, do you think he can be free after 2 yrs?

Before his first sentence is finished, another few will be in line for him to serve!

Poor him!

[slapout]

Hotel; Concerning your last paragraph; "I don't think Thaksin was more corrupt"? did you mean the instances (number) or the amount that was siphoned off in each case or the entire groups take over Mr. T's political career? Are we to take into account inflation and devaluation of baht?

Yes corruption is everywhere as is murder, rape, armed robbery, etc. The vast majority of the worlds countries have, and enforce the laws that have been passed to punish those who break all of these laws. The majority of the people in this world seem to support these laws and their enforcement. Those countries that regularly disregard the mores of the majority are looked upon with scorn and mistrust by what has been referred to as the civilized world, with good reason.

A learned man once said " just because a person agrees with another on a course of action does not make it right, much less legal".

[asiasurfer]

Hotel; Concerning your last paragraph; "I don't think Thaksin was more corrupt"? did you mean the instances (number) or the amount that was siphoned off in each case or the entire groups take over Mr. T's political career? Are we to take into account inflation and devaluation of baht?

Yes corruption is everywhere as is murder, rape, armed robbery, etc. The vast majority of the worlds countries have, and enforce the laws that have been passed to punish those who break all of these laws. The majority of the people in this world seem to support these laws and their enforcement. Those countries that regularly disregard the mores of the majority are looked upon with scorn and mistrust by what has been referred to as the civilized world, with good reason.

A learned man once said " just because a person agrees with another on a course of action does not make it right, much less legal".

To a certain point I agree with you. In most Western countries, politicians (who own their own business/company/stakes, etc...) need to clearly state that certain political issues are in the interest of their own business (negatively or positively). That is supposed to help to avoid corruption cases as seen in many developing countries. If this would have been the case in Thailand, maybe Thaksin would have never been able to even start a career in politics.

All I’m saying is that I assume that most MPs in Thailand could be charged with corruption cases if you just dig deep enough. We all know corruption is largely tolerated in Thailand. But this is also a cultural issue… I guess it won’t change for many years to come.

[Gary A]

It's really a VERY simple thing to find the most corrupt people. In this day and age it is difficult to hide BIG money. The government refuses to follow the money because too many important people would be discovered to be corrupt. People earning 150,000 baht per month who live in a 15 million baht home and drive a 5 million baht Mercedes would have to explain where that money came from.

[asiasurfer]

It's really a VERY simple thing to find the most corrupt people. In this day and age it is difficult to hide BIG money. The government refuses to follow the money because too many important people would be discovered to be corrupt. People earning 150,000 baht per month who live in a 15 million baht home and drive a 5 million baht Mercedes would have to explain where that money came from.

I don’t really think it matters who the ‘most corrupt’ people are or how BIG the money is. Corruption stays corruption, never mind if it is a thousand or a million baht. Saying that, there may be different reasons for, why people become corrupt. It may be simple greed for some, but it may also be simply necessary for others (e.g. people living under the poverty line) in order to survive.

[sriracha john]

If Thaksin is so innocent, fitted up, whatever (and saying because everyone does it too he should be let off doesn't cut it - do we free murderers because others have got away with it - piffle!)

you mean like this?

Just a note on Thaksin’s corruption charges: I don’t think Thaksin was more corrupt than most other politicians or officials in Thailand – past or present. Corruption is just everywhere…

[Gary A]

Getting away with murder? That has gone on for many years too. How many wealthy people's kids have done that?

[hardy1943]

Ferwert,

Yes, I absolutely agree with your points. But I especially wanna comment on point #1.

The only way to get some objective information about Thai politics is actually in the foreign media (e.g. The Economist, etc…). The coup of 2006 was actually heavily criticised by the media outside Thailand and it was generally assumed that it was politically motivated. They also accused the Elite of the Thai military to serve its own interests. The King had little choice but to endorse the coup in order to keep the peace.

Now there is a government in power, Thai people have never voted for. Voices of Thaksin’s supporters remain unheard with the current government. Protests are forbidden and Thaksin supporters are being muted. The 2006 coup has done nothing else but thrown the country into unrest and instability. The way the current government came into power had nothing to do with democracy. And again, here it is useful to look at the foreign media to obtain more objective information. The media in Thailand seems to be biased and expresses one-sided views.

Just a note on Thaksin’s corruption charges: I don’t think Thaksin was more corrupt than most other politicians or officials in Thailand – past or present. Mind you! Just look at the UK, whereas some MPs are filling their pockets with money which doesn’t belong to them. Corruption is just everywhere…

I second that motion

[sriracha john]

More than half of Thais disagree with pardoning politicians in corruption cases

ABAC Poll Director Mr Noppadon Kannikar revealed the survey results from those aged 18 and older in 17 provinces, among 4,102 households during July 3 to 11, 2009.

It found that more than half of people or about 54.5% disagreed with the pardon for corruption related politicians

-- NNT 2009-07-12

ABAC Poll: Majority in Favor of Abhisit Government

An opinon poll conducted by ABAC revealed that the majority of interviewees are in favour of the Abhisit government and would like to see them remaining in office.

Assumption University conducted a household-level survey to gather public opinion on the six-month progress of the Abhisit government and to determine which political party they will choose in the next election. 71.2 per cent of the interviewees gave their approval on the government's performance and said they would like to see the government remain in office.

The top three economic measures that interviewees report that they are satisfied with, in order of popularity, are, first, the 500-baht monthly subsidy for the elderly, second, the 600-baht monthly wage for village health care volunteers and, third, the five measures designed to reduce living expenses for the public.

The top three social developments by the government that interviewees most approve are, free 15-year education, H1N1 viral epidemic control, and the tackling of problems on illegal migrants.

The top three political and security policies that people are in favor of are, in order of popularity, protecting of the Monarchy, internal security measures and improvment in the relationships with neighbouring countries.

When asked about which political party they would vote for in a new election, 44.6 per cent said they would vote for the Democrat Party while 40.1 per cent would vote for Pheu Thai Party. The rest would vote for other parties.

When taking education level of interviewees into consideration, the survey revealed that people with a higher level of education are more in favor of the Democrat Party.

44.9 per cent of farmers and labourers interviewed said they would vote for Pheu Thai while 40.3 per cent of them would vote for Democrat Party.

-- Tan Network 2009-07-13

[grandpops]

Big mistake for your credibility that you use TAN. What an absolute joke of a network.

I just watched their commentators babbling on again tonight with their defense of the criminal foreign minister and his untouchable cohorts wrecking the country and calling in a coup last year. It junior school playground level of one sided debate with a couple of kreung jaiing inadequates sucking up to the weasle in charge. The North Korean TV reports are more credible and at least they look like professionals.

That any serious commentator could imagine a 70% approval rating for a government that couldn't even get elected after the election was rigged in their favour says much more about the PAD apologist superior falangs on this forum than anything else.

Enjoy your one sided elitist pap journalism whilst it lasts. They will be out on their ear when the time comes, or, more likely, they will change sides once they realise the writing is on the wall.

[RKASA]

I think Taksin is a few steps ahead in all this. They used the military to remove him when he was out of the country, because the system they like best is easy for the PM to control and it wouldn't work otherwise. Notice they never bothered to fix that and now its theirs so its OK all fixed for them.

So then they let him come and go, and then he holds a really and everyone wants is head. This is why he held the really in the first place. Listen to the things he said. Nobody is going to hand his head back after that. He can show cause that he won't be treated fair when the time comes. They have stepped all over their own feet again.

Just end it, forget it. Move on and the power will fade from the Taksin mic. Every time they try to turn the screws on this it just makes more noise. You need to pick your fights more carefully. With as much ground as the other side has taken, its time to be wise and dig in a hold it. The PM would be wise if he himself said pardon but stay away for x years. done. Worked for Ford and people got on with it. Ford lost the following election not because of Nixon, he could have lost for many other reasons not the least of which was his golf game and sending troops into Thailand without permission, if your old enough you can recall that.

This PM may even be able to win a real election if he did that. and what was the line a few post back. This is the same system that picked the last two, well if thats true then why close the airport and trash government house, seems everyone should have been happy with that choice as they are this one. Blind leading the blind.

A true free press is a vary messy thing, but its loads better then the crap that replaces it. I would say the press in Thailand kind of stinks.

Oh and the topic, the pardon, Things like that are not asked for they are given. Bad move.

[Datsun240Z]

If Thaksin at least could come back and let the justice have it's way. If he's then found guilty, the Red Shirts could try to seek royal pardon for him. And still... What is two years prison after doing billions of Baht from corruption? That's cheap!

If Thaksin is ever locked up, with all those cases pile up against him, do you think he can be free after 2 yrs?

Before his first sentence is finished, another few will be in line for him to serve!

Poor him!

That's why he doesn't want to go in prison or to court in Thailand, because he know's how corrupt the system is.

[sriracha john]

More than half of Thais disagree with pardoning politicians in corruption cases

ABAC Poll

found that more than half of people or about 54.5% disagreed with the pardon for corruption related politicians

ABAC Poll: Majority in Favor of Abhisit Government

An opinon poll conducted by ABAC

71.2 per cent of the interviewees gave their approval on the government's performance and said they would like to see the government remain in office.

Big mistake for your credibility that you use TAN.

That any serious commentator could imagine a 70% approval rating for a government

The disapproval of Thaksin's pardon and the approval rating for the government was determined by Assumption University's ABAC Poll.... not TAN News

Edited July 14, 2009 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

The PM would be wise if he himself said pardon but stay away for x years. done. Worked for Ford and people got on with it.

The PM does not have the authority to grant a Royal Pardon.

This isn't the USA.

[basjke]

More than half of Thais disagree with pardoning politicians in corruption cases

ABAC Poll

found that more than half of people or about 54.5% disagreed with the pardon for corruption related politicians

ABAC Poll: Majority in Favor of Abhisit Government

An opinon poll conducted by ABAC

71.2 per cent of the interviewees gave their approval on the government's performance and said they would like to see the government remain in office.

Big mistake for your credibility that you use TAN.

That any serious commentator could imagine a 70% approval rating for a government

The disapproval of Thaksin's pardon and the approval rating for the government was determined by Assumption University's ABAC Poll.... not TAN News

And how many people they interviewed this time.Was it more then the usual average of 0.000000000000001 % of the population.

[ratcatcher]

If Thaksin at least could come back and let the justice have it's way. If he's then found guilty, the Red Shirts could try to seek royal pardon for him. And still... What is two years prison after doing billions of Baht from corruption? That's cheap!

Thaksin, the arrogant character that he is, professes his total innocence in these cases and refuses to appear before a Thai court of justice believing that he would never receive a 'fair' trial.

Thus, being 'innocent" as he claims, seeking a pardon is merely absurd.

[sriracha john]

ABAC Poll: Majority in Favor of Abhisit Government

An opinon poll conducted by ABAC

71.2 per cent of the interviewees gave their approval on the government's performance and said they would like to see the government remain in office.

Big mistake for your credibility that you use TAN.

That any serious commentator could imagine a 70% approval rating for a government

The disapproval of Thaksin's pardon and the approval rating for the government was determined by Assumption University's ABAC Poll.... not TAN News

And how many people they interviewed this time.

I was just correcting grandpop's erroneous statements regarding the polling origins.

Questions regarding ABAC's polling methodology can be directed here:

http://www.abacpoll.au.edu/websurvey/aboutus.html

Edited July 14, 2009 by sriracha john

[basjke]

Big mistake for your credibility that you use TAN.

That any serious commentator could imagine a 70% approval rating for a government

The disapproval of Thaksin's pardon and the approval rating for the government was determined by Assumption University's ABAC Poll.... not TAN News

And how many people they interviewed this time.

I was just correcting grandpop's erroneous statements regarding the polling origins.

Questions regarding ABAC's polling methodology can be directed here:

http://www.abacpoll.au.edu/websurvey/aboutus.html

I did understand your reply to grandpop's post but my point is that using a Abac poll as reference doesn't add any credibility.

By the way thanks for the link,it shows once again how poor quality their polls are.They state their team exists of 100 members and 1200 temporary officers but I remember polls conducted all over the country with 1700 people interviewed.That's 1.3 person per interviewer.