Us citizen wants to buy massage shop in pattaya

[FATBOYTHAI]

I am a United States citizen, 39 years old. Planning to marry my Thai girlfriend who is 37. No, she is not an ex bar girl. She owns several small food shops in Bangkok. We want to purchase and operate a massage shop and/or internet cafe in Pattaya. What are my requirements to do so? Can I own a business outright, or must I own it in tandem with my future wife? Buy before or after marriage? Work permit requirements? Visa requirements? Capitalization and tax issues.  Web sites, consular addresses, war stories, etc. Key charges, rents, who to bribe, how much. Also, will ownership of a massage shop derail any plans we have for her to obtain a visa and eventually relocate to the US with me? Thank you to all who respond. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

[Percy1]

Do a search on google for the name Chuwit.

The massage business in Thailand may not be a wise investment choice at the minute.

Regards

[JonnieB]

i assume you mean traditional thai massage and therefore the chewit search would not be necessary  

this sounds like a feasible plan in that you are thinking small and don't have visions of granduar.  however, there must already be 500 massage joints and another 500 internet cafes already in town so you are not the first one to have come up with this idea.  however, if you want to do this to give the girl something to do and maybe facilitate your expat life here then hop to it.

as an american, you may be able to own 100% of the thai company you set-up to buy/own the business (USA-Thai Treaty of Amity).  there are some businesses and professions that are excluded but many types of businesses can be 100% owned by Americans because of this treaty.  hurry, however, because this treaty will likely loose its effect within the next 4-6 month because of thailand conforming its trade and investment laws to WTO requirements, which prohibit discriminitory FOI policies.  if you get in before the expiration, however, the company may be grandfathered and keep its 100% american ownership.

otherwise, come here and consult a qualified thai lawyer and the websites about setting-up a thai corp where you are a substantial shareholder and managing director.  you could also consult with sunbelt asia to see if they have any such businesses for sale.

all your questions about capitalization, visa, taxes, whatever, can be answered by your lawyer and accountant here in los.  if they can't, better get a new lawyer. there is also a wealth of info on this board...do searches or just monitor for a couple weeks and you will learn allot.

good luck

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Go to the Sunbelt link on Thaivisa. Steve will give you the best advice on business ownership.

[Heng]

Just a bit of advice... if the police even hear a rumor that people are kissing or holding hands in your traditional Thai massage parlour, you'll be subject to a street tax.  Payable every month until.... well, forever.  

[FATBOYTHAI]

Thanks to all for the advice. I know the town is lousy with these businesses. Looking for modest income to pay expenses. Majority of income comes from free lance writing and a few modest investments. Never hurts to have more baht in the pocket, especially given the proposed new extortion laws as to farang and visas.

[Sunbelt Asia]

What are my requirements to do so?

 The best way is with Amity as Johnny B suggested.

Can I own a business outright, or must I own it in tandem with my future wife?

Own it out right

Buy before or after marriage?

Up to you. does not matter.

Work permit requirements?

You need 2 million baht paid up capital for you.

Visa requirements?

You can get a "B" or "O" visa

tax issues.

30% flat tax

Web sites

Many freelancers here.. 50,000 Baht or lower should get you a decent site.

, consular addresses

Embassy is located on Wireless

, war stories,

Acquiring an existing business is much better than starting one.

etc. Key charges, rents,

Just depends on the location. On existing businesses, most do not have key money to the Land Lord.

who to bribe, how much.

You will be surprised that for most foreigners, that amount is low. The biggest Go Go Bars pay just 10,000 Baht or lower. The money Chuwit was tossing around is nothing I've heard of from foreigners. Most smart businessmen say to pay just the top guy.

 

Also, will ownership of a massage shop derail any plans we have for her to obtain a visa and eventually relocate to the US with me?  

If she is the Director of the Limited company, odds are she'll be ok. I would think the Internet Cafe makes more sense, if you wanted to be 100% sure.

[Indo-Siam]

Go to the Sunbelt link on Thaivisa. Steve will give you the best advice on business ownership.

Hey Dr P -

It's "Greg" at Sunbelt - I'm Steve, and I'm at www.indo-siam.com !!!!

I guess Greg and I are basically friendly competitors, with slightly different focuses (focci?).  I like to think of it as David vs. Goliath (meant secularly - and I'm the little guy!).

In this particular case, I would defer to Greg anyway - I pretty much limit my "reach" to metro Bangkok, and if purchase of a business is involved, Greg's firm is a more appropriate entity to perform due diligence, and advise concerning legal aspects of protecting against liability (basically by arranging an asset purchase transaction, as opposed to an outright acquisition of another company).

Cheers!

Steve

Indo-Siam

[Butterfly]

I hope you don't expect to make money with your MP ? do you know you have to pay that "special" tax to the police ?

Better off with buying a bar instead. See what I mean ?

[FATBOYTHAI]

Again, thanks to all. I will check the resources suggested. Invaluable assistance and prompt at that. Looks like for now the massage is a no go (proposed shop was too expensive and not making much money) and the internet a better opportunity. It sounds like time is of the essence as to the proposed law changes.

I see two responses as to "police tax". One high, one low. Any experience with this? Is bar ownership a money maker or just a nice place to get loaded while in LOS? Neither one of us imbibe so that motivation is not there. More profits, less grain alchohol headaches.

Thanks again for the advice. Butterfly, you mention not making money. What, then, is the point of a business? Difficult to turn a profit or do the local lads in blue make it a point to reach into my pocket until such time as I am dry and bereft?

Happily awaiting any new responses.

[Sunbelt Asia]

Were talking generalities here. It’s like asking is the sky blue? Or is it the ocean calm? Some days the sky and ocean are. Some businesses do well in Thailand and some don’t. Just like in any part of the world. However in Thailand, be prepared in certain businesses to make less than you could in other parts of the world. For instance, with SOME concepts you will make 50% less net profit here but that 50% in your pocket will go much father than in the Western world. Some concepts you will even make more and some even lose money. But nothing is of course just picking the money off the street. I know I’m not helping you much with this answer but your question is similar to “Are men good? “

Business is a case by case situation. Some Internet Café do well here, even charging 3 Baht a minute but a block away, they need to charge just 1 baht a minute. So many variables of location, brand name, customer loyalty, staff. Your best scenario is to look at MANY businesses, do your due diligence and find the best one that is making money and fits your fiancé and your personality.  We have a Sunbelt office in Pattaya and Charles the office manager their, can direct you at a number of businesses you and your wife can own.

As for Bars, lots of competition in Pattaya.  Moderate payouts do happen. The overall comments I’ve heard is that the people getting envelopes are happy and only come around once a month. Requests for increases are rare, not even once a year. The funniest thing is you hear this many times” The police here are good, their not greedy.” And more importantly according to a number of bar owners, it’s cheaper than if they had to hire fulltime security.

[Heng]

Also, depending on what your business is... the police (at least the 'nakhon bahn' police) aren't the only authorities that will require a cut.   There's the CSD, the Tessakij, and others.   At least there aren't any health or fire inspectors like in many places in the west though.  

Pattaya gogo bar owners aren't exactly showing Chuwit range profits either.   Your tax (like any tax) is relative to how much money you're making.  

[easymoney]

I will add to Sunbelt with a personal story. In 96 I opened a restaurant upcountry abit. This was after running a small chain in US of 14 seafood restaurants. There I needed 4 employees at each location and averaged 2800 a day in sales. We were a fast food and sold same quality and more per plate food than are competitors who sold at 15 to 16 . Thing is at Thailand restaurant took 8 employees to get out average of 2200 baht and we sold beer unlike in US. What this means is what works one place doesn't work in another.

[Butterfly]

Thanks again for the advice. Butterfly, you mention not making money. What, then, is the point of a business? Difficult to turn a profit or do the local lads in blue make it a point to reach into my pocket until such time as I am dry and bereft?

Happily awaiting any new responses.

Many of these businesses, above all in Pattaya, are money laundering businesses. They don't care that much of making money since they use the business operations to launder their existing illegal activities.

Other few businesses, barely make enough to survive, at least for a farang lifestyle. For many thais, the business is a way to feed their family and provide a little bit of cash. But by our standards, they barely make a profit, and some even run businesses at a loss but don't know it since they don't have proper accounting.

I won't mention all those crazy farangs buying bars because they think they will make a fortune in Pattaya by inviting all their buddies to drink. The sad truth is after 2 weeks of operations, your buddies will be tired of going to your bar and will go somewhere else. With the competition out there, farangs usually don't last 6 months.