Have You Been Short Changed In After Hours Bars?

[Chris84]

Here is my grievance, I ordered two small Leo in the open-air Van next to Spicy, Chaing Mai. Myself and my Thai girlfriend for about 3 months. It was 4am but I had only been drinking since 2am, and still had my sense's.

The bill came with the drinks for 120 baht. I gave 1,020 B, expecting to recieve my change of 900 baht, once I had returned from the toilet. My girlfriend handed me only 380 baht. I asked about the remainder, but she hadn't noticed that I had given more. I thought about this for a minute, counted my money showing my girlfriend that I was about 500 baht short. I remember vividly handing over 1020, as this is an unusual amount (thinking it would make it easier to change).

I went to the bar and my girlfriend followed me, by her own accord. I told this to what appeared to be managment (an older Thai woman), poliety and calmly, but not expecting a good response.

I found the waitress and she told me I had given her only 500 baht!

This was not a long discussion. As my girlfriend said "mai chai" the Thai man, managment at the bar tried to attack her, hitting her on the back of the head. We were told to Go "falang always make problem like this only for 500 baht".

I didn't want to fight because I knew, from experience, it would be a losing battle and i didn't want my girlfriend to get hurt.

Has any body else heard or experienced this at the Van bar, or anywhere else in Chiang Mai? What was the outcome?

[Jingthing]

"falang always make problem like this only for 500 baht".

Yes it is a big problem and it happens in many kinds of places. The way I prevent it, and it has worked so far, is to speak out loud 1000 baht or pan baht and look the waiter in the eyes when I do so, and there is almost always some kind of eye response from the waiter which I interpret as, that was smart. Its not like every waiter is corrupt but enough are that you have to take precautions. Once the deed is done, I also would never fight it unless I was known well and friendly with the management. I would let them know they were busted, but who do you think the police are going to side with ... farang ...

In really dodgy places even my civil method might not prevent it all the time. Best to carry smaller change!

Edited July 21, 2009 by Jingthing

[WinnieTheKhwai]

What happens equally often is drunk Farang guys forgetting about particular drinks or indeed the money they paid with. And the remedy suggested by Jingthing is the same: in many places that are less basket-case-establishment also the waitress will confirm the amount handed to her.

Personally in bars that I frequent a lot I don't have the slightest concern, and franly I trust the waitresses more than my own memory after a few too many drinks. But if I do go to potentially bad places then I make sure I have change, or indeed confirm the amount I just handed over.

[Paagai]

Here is my grievance, I ordered two small Leo in the open-air Van next to Spicy

Therein lies your problem...........................

It could have been worse, it could have been V-club

[Chris84]

Thank for the advice. I agree with Jingthing, that you can never fight it unless well known and friendly with the management, and I shouldn't have asked. I have been told that police can drink free there. But it showed up the staff/management, who value money so much that they resort to hitting young women. It is just another episode which leaves a sour taste.

[Ulysses G.]

I'm not blaming you, but feel that you were way too casual about it for the location and the time of night - giving them a big note for a small bill and going off to the toilet. I would have at least waited right there for my change, so it would have been fresh in everyone's mind.

[anonymouse]

I'm not blaming you, but feel that you were way too casual about it for the location and the time of night - giving them a big note for a small bill and going off to the toilet. I would have at least waited right there for my change, so it would have been fresh in everyone's mind.

I agree with UG on this one, though you did the right thing in walking away.

[Maccheroncini]

It is common in Thailand and other places.

[SantiSuk]

It is common in Thailand and other places.

IMHO Thailand bars are much less prone to rip offs like this than a hel_l of a lot of other places I go - first and third world. And I tend to be drunker in Thai bars than elsewhere (but my accountant training still keeps me in control when it comes to money)!

[Chris84]

In my experience on drinking in Thailand, I can never recall ever having this problem before, I have had my drink spiked in a Bangkok lady bar two years ago, but that's a different story. I by no mean want to discourage people from drinking in Chiang Mai, because it's a wonderful place. I just want to slag this place Jack Van Bar, because I don't like what it stands for in Thailand. I don't like how the management treated me. How they can look down on my girlfriend, and everbody else because they obviously have a good turnover (next to spicy, open till early hours) and money. Its not a trait I like to see in Thai people.

[krading]

The short change bit was tried on me on Koh Mak by the Bob Marley wannabe owner of some Rasta place.

There were only 4 people in the place and it was the middle of the day. We'd had 2 beers each when I paid with a 1000 I got change from a 500.

When I pointed it out he made a big show of counting all the money in his pocket, shaking his head, puzzled frown, the whole act but when he looked at my ex-con Thai brother in law I suddenly got the benifit of the doubt and my change

[Blinky Bill]

Nothing to do with Chiang Mai or Thailand for that matter, but 2 colleagues went to a bar in Turkey a few years back, after about 2 hours they had a bill in excess of US$1,700. My colleagues weren't from Turkey (Finns), they are good drinkers but they had only about 10 drinks each in the time. The bill was ridiculously over the top. The option of not paying was to end up severely beaten but more likely dead. Thailand ain't so bad.

[IanForbes]

I'm not blaming you, but feel that you were way too casual about it for the location and the time of night - giving them a big note for a small bill and going off to the toilet. I would have at least waited right there for my change, so it would have been fresh in everyone's mind.

I agree with UG on this one, though you did the right thing in walking away.

I agree with Ulysses adn anonymouse on this one. Some times you are in the wrong place at the wrong time and you get stung. 500 baht is not worth getting hurt over and it's a lesson learned... don't use big bills for small payment. If I don't have any smaller bills I normally go to 7-11 BEFORE I go to the bar and get a big bill changed by buying something small.

Only a couple of times do I think I've been short changed and it's always been by the same waitress.

She seems to add a few more lady drinks to my total. I don't drink a lot and normally keep a running total in my head and it's only with this woman that my figures don't jibe with hers. Every time I see that she is on the till I don't buy much at all. If anyone else is on the till I trust their tally.

I normally visit only a few bars that know me, and I never get drunk, so it's pretty easy for me. Occasionally, I forget to pay and wander off. The bars remind me the next day and I pay up. Everyone I've ever noticed having problems have always been the drunk ones. I'm not saying the drunks are wrong, but I am saying they are setting themselves up for problems occurred by themselves. If you want to get drunk, then either REALLY know the establishment well or do it at a private residence where you have brought your own booze.

[NancyL]

Husband says this problem isn't unique to Thailand. Back when he was single and in the States, he made it a habit to point out to the bartender that he was putting down a $20 bill to pay for a drink or two and he'd put it out in clear sight of everyone else at the bar. Of course, back then $20 was real money.

[seesip]

I also think the way you handed over the extra money to make it easier to change could have been a problem. I do that all the time in the States--like if something is 9.50 you give 10.50 to get back an even dollar. But I've heard many different times where that concept just seems puzzling to people here in LOS, not just in bars but restaurants, retail, etc. Might be better to just give the closest amount and deal with the extra change.

[473geo]

And of course by giving extra to round up to a perfect hundred, you rob of the chance to make sure there are a couple of 10 baht coins in the change you can leave as a tip.....

[sassienie]

I think there may have been more involved with this story.

Very unusual that the staff would have resorted to physically assaulting a female unless there was quite a bit of aggression between all parties involved.

This has never happened to me for reasons that I don’t trust doing business or believe in what anyone tells me here.

Even when I get a good deal, in the back of my mind I am still thinking that I’ve been ripped off somewhere along the way.

When on my travels, I ensure that I have plenty of small denomination notes and coins with me, such as to use in massage parlours, bars, low grade eating places, small shops and even petrol stations.

Sometimes before I go into these places, I make a small purchase at a 7/11 or supermarket, give a 1000 baht note and get change to use in the not so reputable establishments.

I try and give as close to the correct money for what I am buying as possible.

Follow these golden rules and avoid giving these morons the opportunities to rip you off.

[anonymouse]

I think there may have been more involved with this story.

Very unusual that the staff would have resorted to physically assaulting a female unless there was quite a bit of aggression between all parties involved.

Got to disagree with you on this one Sassienie, though I haven't seen a lot of violence in Thailand what I have seen has been provoked by the silliest of things, I also don't think that there is so much of a stigma about assualting a female here as there would be in Europe or The States.

[cmjantje]

When my gf is doing the shopping I give her money.

When I give 50 baht it is finished

When I give het 500 baht it is finished

When I give 1000 baht it is also finished

So Maybe it is in the nature of Thai?

[sassienie]

When my gf is doing the shopping I give her money.

When I give 50 baht it is finished

When I give het 500 baht it is finished

When I give 1000 baht it is also finished

So Maybe it is in the nature of Thai?

And the moral of the story is?

[endure]

Nothing to do with Chiang Mai or Thailand for that matter, but 2 colleagues went to a bar in Turkey a few years back, after about 2 hours they had a bill in excess of US$1,700. My colleagues weren't from Turkey (Finns), they are good drinkers but they had only about 10 drinks each in the time. The bill was ridiculously over the top. The option of not paying was to end up severely beaten but more likely dead. Thailand ain't so bad.

Same thing happened to me and a mate in a bar in Marseilles. The minute we started to complain they let the large goons out of their box.

[Loaded]

I think there may have been more involved with this story.

There always is at spicy at 4am.

[miltonbentley]

Aren't peoples experiences so diverse?

I have been drinking at the van for well over two years and never had this problem. I have also never seen the staff assault anyone in fact just the opposite I have seen them jump in to stop fights at some considerable risk to themselves.

[cmjantje]

When my gf is doing the shopping I give her money.

When I give 50 baht it is finished

When I give het 500 baht it is finished

When I give 1000 baht it is also finished

So Maybe it is in the nature of Thai?

And the moral of the story is?

Never expect change money

[Blinky Bill]

I think there may have been more involved with this story................................

......................Follow these golden rules and avoid giving these morons the opportunities to rip you off.

I think you spoiled your post by the last line, Sass.

[tigerbeer]

I can't stand the owner and some of the people working at the Van. Catering for Farangs are their main business so if they think farangs create too much problems for them, they might as well close down.

[Jingthing]

I can't stand the owner and some of the people working at the Van. Catering for Farangs are their main business so if they think farangs create too much problems for them, they might as well close down.

You want problems? Try stealing 500 baht from a poor Thai and then you will have problems.

[caf]

Aren't peoples experiences so diverse?

I have been drinking at the van for well over two years and never had this problem. I have also never seen the staff assault anyone in fact just the opposite I have seen them jump in to stop fights at some considerable risk to themselves.

Have you thought that they maybe select their targets

You're well known in CM so not a target.

[caf]

I'm not blaming you, but feel that you were way too casual about it for the location and the time of night - giving them a big note for a small bill and going off to the toilet. I would have at least waited right there for my change, so it would have been fresh in everyone's mind.

I agree with UG on this one, though you did the right thing in walking away.

I agree with Ulysses adn anonymouse on this one. Some times you are in the wrong place at the wrong time and you get stung. 500 baht is not worth getting hurt over and it's a lesson learned... don't use big bills for small payment. If I don't have any smaller bills I normally go to 7-11 BEFORE I go to the bar and get a big bill changed by buying something small.

Only a couple of times do I think I've been short changed and it's always been by the same waitress.

She seems to add a few more lady drinks to my total. I don't drink a lot and normally keep a running total in my head and it's only with this woman that my figures don't jibe with hers. Every time I see that she is on the till I don't buy much at all. If anyone else is on the till I trust their tally.

I normally visit only a few bars that know me, and I never get drunk, so it's pretty easy for me. Occasionally, I forget to pay and wander off. The bars remind me the next day and I pay up. Everyone I've ever noticed having problems have always been the drunk ones. I'm not saying the drunks are wrong, but I am saying they are setting themselves up for problems occurred by themselves. If you want to get drunk, then either REALLY know the establishment well or do it at a private residence where you have brought your own booze.

A good post and some sound advice - particularly getting change from 7/11 etc

It doesn't excuse the scam of course. I hope you accept that.

And; Occasionally, I forget to pay and wander off

[Semper]

Agree with tigerbeer. Having known the owner for years,this seems to be a normal stunt by him.

Avoid the place.