Sound Business But Mad Owner.

[simon43]

Here's an interesting post to consider over your beers....

This post concerns the long-running saga, (film-rights currently offered) of my Thai ex-wife, who has Bipolar II mental illness.

Whilst we were married, I funded the construction of a small, but successful guesthouse in Phuket, which we intended to run as a family business for the 15-year period of the rented land upon which it was built. Renewal of this rental contract is not at all guaranteed, so my business projections were made based upon the 15-year term.

Unfortunately, I failed to factor into my spreadsheet the possibility of my partner going mad...

The hotel opened in 2006 and under my direct control, it has been a profitable business. However, the deteriorating mental health of my partner finally led to the marriage breakup and legal divorce last year. In order to gain her agreement for this divorce, I signed the business over to her, (it had previously been a legal partnership between us).

Now you may say that signing over the business to her was the wrong decision. However, at the time, this was the only quick solution open to me for an uncontested divorce, and I knew that whilst my ex would legally own the business, she was incapable of managing it. In any case, what's done is done.

Since early this year, I have obtained new and gainful employment away from Phuket, and I do not require any profit share or interest in the hotel venture. I am very happy and looking forward to new business ventures. Everything is going well!!

But now, what I warned my ex at time of divorce, (that she is incapable of managing the hotel), is coming to fruition. She is unable to pay the hotel bills and monthly land rental. (This is not due to lack of hotel guests, but down to mismanagment of the business). She even recently rejected an offer of 10 million baht from a potential purchaser of the business, against my good advice to sell up. Unable to accept criticism of any kind, she has recently physically attacked several hotel guests who criticised some aspect of her business, (that news didn't make the newspapers, thank heavens!).

I am quite happy to let her 'wallow' in the mess that she has made of it all, (som nam na etc), and I have rejected her pleas for a loan - because I will never get the money back. I fully accept my financial loss and have no intention of returning to Phuket to assist her.

But there are several issues that concern me:

- She has got herself in this mess primarily as a result of her mental illness; she cannot be held totally responsible for her incompetent actions.

- She is wrecking what is essentially a sound business

- she is denying her 3 kids the chance to benefit from the proceeds of this business, such as to help with school fees etc.

Her family members are unwilling to help in this matter, (they are all sick of her problems etc), and they too, will not be able to manage the hotel business in a proper manner.

So what to do?

- Under no circumstances can I physically reside at the hotel. My ex would cause too many 'problems' for me

- Under no circumstances can any new business arrangement involve her active participation in the business

The only solutions that I can think of are:

- Persuade her to sell the business (didn't work last time when the money was 'on the table', so unlikely to work now)

- Wait until she 'crashes' the business and is forced to leave, step in and buy it from the landlord, put in a new Thai manager.

- Wait until she crashes the business, go and celebrate...

I have already tried to get her 'committed' or getting her declared 'quasi-incompetent', so that I can take over her affairs. But her family do not support me in this matter and, as I am now divorced from her, the chances of getting her committed are low.

I'm a businessman and I do not like to see a sound business fail in these peculiar circumstances. As stated, I have no interest in gaining from the hotel profits. But the income stream could certainly help her children re schooling etc. (Monthly net profit averaged over the year is about 100,000 baht). But I've run out of my own ideas about this situation.

I'm aware that I have no legal claim over the business. But if the landlord is forced to seize his land, then there is a good chance that he will re-rent it to me, complete with hotel business, (I have previously discussed this with him).

Good advice much appreciated.

Simon

[TheWalkingMan]

Wait for the landlord to seize the business, re-lease it, stick in a proper manager and if you are feeling generous, channel a monthly stipend to the ex-wife. Maybe that is one solution.

Good luck!

TheWalkingMan

[imaneggspurt]

Simon its sounds like a nightmare, i married a lunatic in 01 that lasted a very long 2 years,..it made me ill to be around her and even getting the signature for the divorce was a nightmare, ,.the best thing i ever did was never see her or ask about her again,.i set her up in busines and lost the lot, ,in the end it was worth it just to see the back of her,. ..tough call for you ,but id say wash your hands and move on./good luck

[simon43]

TheWalkingMan, that's the solution that I'm thinking of, although I didn't intend to channel any funds to my ex, since she would just lose the money. My plan was to manage these funds for the kids that are involved.

I think I need to go and speak with the landlord again because I think D-Day is getting close

Simon

[LaoPo]

But if the landlord is forced to seize his land, then there is a good chance that he will re-rent it to me, complete with hotel business, (I have previously discussed this with him).

Good advice much appreciated.

Simon

Hello Simon,

Good to hear you're doing fine.

Reading between the lines you are still, emotionally, a bit involved after the nightmare you have been going through. Emotionally involved because you still think about the well being of her 3 kids. That's to be respected but, sorry to say so, not your responsibility anymore because I know you have done so much for them in the past.

Step away and try to forget about your ex and the business.

But, in case you still want to re-rent it in the future, just sit and wait for the phone call of the landlord. The problem with re-renting could be that, once you've installed a manager, things go wrong again and since you're not around, another nightmare could occur...

It's time now you think of yourself rather than your ex....you have been going through an unimaginable nightmare, trying to safe her but she can't be saved.

Wish you well!

LaoPo

[simon43]

Hi LaoPo!

Well, I have to bear in mind that one of her 3 kids is my own son, and I'm the one who currently pays out for all his private school fees, living expenses etc. So I don't appreciate seeing a sound business being run into the ground.

My ex is beyond help. But I do not like seeing other innocent people (the kids) losing out on this.

In any case, I am very busy with my new job and some other business ideas. Waiting for the crash seems to be the best option

Simon

[chuenjit]

Can you or one her friends guide her towards some medical help which may open the door to better communication ?

[simon43]

Can you or one her friends guide her towards some medical help which may open the door to better communication

[\quote]

Sorry, not laughing at you. ...

Been there, done that, paid a fortune in medical bills. Search for the TV thread about her and then you'll agree that letting the business crash is probably the best solution..

Simon

[dr_Pat_Pong]

But if the landlord is forced to seize his land, then there is a good chance that he will re-rent it to me, complete with hotel business, (I have previously discussed this with him).

Good advice much appreciated.

Simon

Hello Simon,

Good to hear you're doing fine.

Reading between the lines you are still, emotionally, a bit involved after the nightmare you have been going through. Emotionally involved because you still think about the well being of her 3 kids. That's to be respected but, sorry to say so, not your responsibility anymore because I know you have done so much for them in the past.

Step away and try to forget about your ex and the business.

But, in case you still want to re-rent it in the future, just sit and wait for the phone call of the landlord. The problem with re-renting could be that, once you've installed a manager, things go wrong again and since you're not around, another nightmare could occur...

It's time now you think of yourself rather than your ex....you have been going through an unimaginable nightmare, trying to safe her but she can't be saved.

Wish you well!

LaoPo

This sounds like good advice Simon. Good luck Squire. This has been a long, long saga.

[LaoPo]

Hi LaoPo!

Well, I have to bear in mind that one of her 3 kids is my own son, and I'm the one who currently pays out for all his private school fees, living expenses etc. So I don't appreciate seeing a sound business being run into the ground.

My ex is beyond help. But I do not like seeing other innocent people (the kids) losing out on this.

In any case, I am very busy with my new job and some other business ideas. Waiting for the crash seems to be the best option

Simon

I'm sorry; I forgot about that and was also under the impression that the situation was different; Mea Culpa.

What about offering her a way out (a sum in cash) in return for custody of your son and re-renting the hotel ?...

Isn't your son now with her family up north-east or was he in BKK ?

LaoPo

[simon43]

LaoPo, he is well and happy in BKK - I visit him every week

Offering my ex a way out via a cash offer is not realistic. Whatever promise she makes today, (legal contract or not), she will break tomorrow. I'm not even sure that a legal contract would stand up in court if she challenged it, since she is not on this planet..... The repossession of the land/business seems to be the best legal route.

Any solution cannot involve me staying at the hotel because she will come back like a bad penny. In any case, I have no interest in staying at the hotel at all, but would like to 'rescue' the business, staff it with a competent Thai manager and run it as a commercial business, not as a family venture.

Simon

[Benjie]

Have you got custody of your son, Its something it sounds like you need to be doing if the mother is acting this way.

Regarding the business, its nothing to do with you anymore really. Sounds like you are having a hard time letting go of ownership. Repurchasing the lease if she reneges sounds like a terrible idea, In her head your ex-wife will always think she is the owner.

[meom]

Here's an interesting post to consider over your beers....

This post concerns the long-running saga, (film-rights currently offered) of my Thai ex-wife, who has Bipolar II mental illness.

Good advice much appreciated.

Simon

My only advice would be to stop writing all over the forum about the misfortunes of your mental ex wife.

In the end she's the mother of your son and probably a woman you were in love with once so why bring up her mental illness, craziness etc. in a public forum every so often.

Anyway good luck.

[Carmine6]

LaoPo, he is well and happy in BKK - I visit him every week

Offering my ex a way out via a cash offer is not realistic. Whatever promise she makes today, (legal contract or not), she will break tomorrow. I'm not even sure that a legal contract would stand up in court if she challenged it, since she is not on this planet..... The repossession of the land/business seems to be the best legal route.

Any solution cannot involve me staying at the hotel because she will come back like a bad penny. In any case, I have no interest in staying at the hotel at all, but would like to 'rescue' the business, staff it with a competent Thai manager and run it as a commercial business, not as a family venture.

Simon

The only extra thing that occurs to me is to sell it after stabilizing it. I'm thinking that your being involved in the business would be a siren song even if you're not physically there. If you get lucky and find a great manager and also have some peace then you could of course stick with it.

I had a bipolar roommate a while back. At some point the checks really started bouncing and the lies got really elaborate. And her group of friends trended a little sketchier. My favorite kitchen knife disappeared from the block right before I moved out and of course she claimed no knowledge. To this day I have a weird feel about that knife going missing. Anyway, although the lease had been in my name, there was no way I was going to stay there and kick her out. I just wanted a clean start for both of us. I've never seen her face to face since then, but in the minimal contact we've had, she seems completely normal.

[ExoticMatter]

Yeeks I can even remember your previous Ex TW post. sounds like if the tenancy expired her unpredictable behaviour may result in her 'hanging around' the guesthouse anyway, she will have an emotional bound to it and may not be concerned over ownership rights.

what happens if she comes causing trouble when you 've taken it over again, what you gonna do, get her arrested and thrown in the bangkok hilton?! And if you did when she got out she'd be twice as annoyed.

It must be terrible to let a prospering business go but while shes in the general vicinity what can you do? (perhaps move her to Issan somewhere!)

Churp Dee Mach Mar as they say,

Regards

EW.

[simon43]

Thanks for all the replies. The general concensus seems to be that even if I let her crash the business and then I reacquire it, I will still have problems with her, even if I am not physically at the hotel, (and I would have to stay away because of my existing job and because if I was there, then she would make big problems for me!).

ExoticMatter - I've already tried moving her back to Issan a few years ago, either living in her village or with me living with her in a remote location. It doesn't work. She catches the first bus back to BKK etc, even if money is taken away from her.

I think the best policy for me is not to get involved in resurecting this hotel business in the future, unless someone does me a favour and marries her and whisks her off to a new life abroad

Simon

[Kf6vci]

I hear you. am actively involved helping a mad mate. Tomorrow, he will be assessed by the government's psychiatric doctors. For years, he has been living with no utilities in a nice neighborhood town house.

It began when the city removed all 3 meters, ending gas, electricity and water service. I'm explaining this as I see similarities.

She needs to be declared incompetent. Then a guardian can take the necessary steps, like sellign the business for say 9 million Baht.

Hope this ends not as a worst case with the land owner seizing the whole property

Chris

[simon43]

Chris - been there done that. The Thai courts will not declare her incompetent because - in their own words - she is not mad 24/7 and her family don't agree that she is mad. Although 2 different Thai psychiatrists have declared her to be of unsound mind, they also state that at times she is lucid. That was enough for the Thai court to refuse to appoint me as her guardian.

In any case, this is all water under the bridge. Since I'm now legally divorced from her, I don't think the court will appoint me as her gauardian, especially since her family refuse to support me. However, at the time when I applied to have her declared 'quasi-incompetent', she was not violent towards others. Now, you put yourself in danger if you - as a hotel guest - criticise her !

I'll just sit this one out and see what happens

Simon

[PurpleNote]

The general concensus seems to be that even if I let her crash the business and then I reacquire it, I will still have problems with her, even if I am not physically at the hotel, (and I would have to stay away because of my existing job and because if I was there, then she would make big problems for me!).

Exactly. If you own it she will feel connected to it. It's one thing if it goes under and some stranger buys it. Even a crazy person understands that their ass will be thrown in jail for messing with the business. But if her ex-husband owns the place then it's an open invite to try to assert some control over you and the hotel. She knows you'll give her some leeway because of your past relationship and when she wears that out she knows the coppers will treat her gently because she'll try to frame it as a domestic dispute rather than the blatant trespassing that it actually is.