Law Degree From Ramkamhaeng

[Nepal4me]

My wife studied Political Science at Ramkamhaeng and is now considering doing a law degree there. I wonder how respected is a law degree from Ramkamhaeng?

Thank you.

[simon43]

I suppose the question to ask is 'respected by who?'

Ramkamhaeng University might be respected by other Thais, (who don't have any degree), but probably would not carry any weight outside Thailand.

(I'm picking my words very carefully so as not to insult your wife).

What reason does she need a law degree for? Is is to further her employment prospects in Thailand? Is it just for self-satisfaction??

Whatever degree you earn and wherever you studied, someone will be impressed, - and others will fall into the opposite camp!

Why does she wish to study at Ram? Has she researched what other universities offer a law degree, tuition fees etc? Does she have time available to study full-time, part-time or flexible learning a la Ram style? (sorry, can't find the accent for the 'a'!)

Simon

[Nepal4me]

No she really hasn't researched all the Uni's. She thinks Ram is fine and she has the time to study full time. She doesn't have any career aspirations, rather just for interests sake. She just likes to study and has a retentive brain so studying for her is kind of fun (yeah weird but she's pretty cool). Also she's not sold on law, perhaps an MBA instead so just checking various options. Actually I'm really checking for comments on how good Ram might be for law compared to other Uni's in Thailand. Even though she's bright, she often suffers from the lack of strict logical (decision making) educational upbringing that we get in the West. Generalization yes but sadly it's true. So I wanted to get some feedback from others here on TV that might have some good input on Ram/Law. Further since it's just for her own personal growth it would be easy to argue that Ram would be fine. I still would like her to get a "good" law degree if she confirms that Law is the right path for her.

[madjbs]

Thammasat has the best law faculty in Thailand. Try to get her a place there if at all possible.

[verydumbubba]

MBA has a lot of corporate law, which would be more beneficial, than a straight law ticket - and keep her real busy.

Bubba

[dominique355]

They say about Ramkhamhaeng University that it's easy to get in but very hard to get out (finish with a degree).

Generally speaking, degrees from R. U. are well respected in Thailand, because usually people who work full time attend this university and consequently have to work double to get a degree.

Obviously, a law degree is never of any big help outside the country. Legal systems ar just too different.

BTW, my wife also graduated with Political Science from R. U. What year did yours graduate?

[Dakhar]

yes obviously the legal systems differ greatly, when the police can kidnap people.....

Some how the statement "I have a law degree from one of the most corupt countries in the world" just does not have a good "ring" to it.

[oldsparrow]

Ram. degree is accepted by any instituation. There are more and more Ram. law graduates who pass the exam to be Assistant Judge/Attorney (the first step for J/A career).

[Nepal4me]

They say about Ramkhamhaeng University that it's easy to get in but very hard to get out (finish with a degree).

Generally speaking, degrees from R. U. are well respected in Thailand, because usually people who work full time attend this university and consequently have to work double to get a degree.

Obviously, a law degree is never of any big help outside the country. Legal systems ar just too different.

BTW, my wife also graduated with Political Science from R. U. What year did yours graduate?

I'll pm you

[GarryP]

My son is studying law at Ram and was informed by admissions that only 10 to 20 percent of those who enroll actually graduate. There are of course those who have bitten off more than they can chew academically but for the most part there is a lot who simply drop out for one reason or another. Many students are also working and are studying to advance themselves. Of those quite a few will find that after a couple of years or so they have already gained the advancement or career they sought and as such further study no longer has the appeal it once had for them.

[Heng]

Ramkhamhaeng judges easily outnumber those from any other university, but perhaps that says more about the local boys club than it does about the quality of the law school. Kinda like how you'll never be a real police general -with any power- unless you were a Sampran (police academy) police cadet.

[Thewayup]

My wife studied Political Science at Ramkamhaeng and is now considering doing a law degree there. I wonder how respected is a law degree from Ramkamhaeng?

Thank you.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva studied law at Ramkamhaeng after gaining two degrees from Oxford University, which would suggest it's a good course and a good qualification.

I know quite a few Thai employers who prefer RU graduates, as the more prestigious universities spoon-feed their students much more into passing their degrees, whereas RU doesn't have the time or the funding. Also as it's such a large university many employers are RU graduates themselves!

[Nepal4me]

I wonder 2 more things about the Law program at Ram.

First, can some of the courses from her Political Science degree be used towards the Law degree? i.e. If so, would her mark (GPA) from those courses be directly transferred to her law program? Reason for asking is she didn't get the best marks in her PS program, not bad but not too high. She was working full time and only did the PS degree because she likes to study. So just wondering if some of those marks might not be ideal moving forward.

Secondly, how is the GPA calculated??? In her PS program there were only 3 marks F(fail), P(pass) and G(good). How does a GPA get calculated out of that???

[Thewayup]

I wonder 2 more things about the Law program at Ram.

First, can some of the courses from her Political Science degree be used towards the Law degree? i.e. If so, would her mark (GPA) from those courses be directly transferred to her law program? Reason for asking is she didn't get the best marks in her PS program, not bad but not too high. She was working full time and only did the PS degree because she likes to study. So just wondering if some of those marks might not be ideal moving forward.

Secondly, how is the GPA calculated??? In her PS program there were only 3 marks F(fail), P(pass) and G(good). How does a GPA get calculated out of that???

This link answers both of your questions more-or-less. She can transfer a certain number of credits from her original degree, the faculty decides how many you can transfer. RU should still have her original GPA scores on record for transferring credits.

The GPA is not calculated from the three grades, the grades are calculated from the GPA (Fail - less than 2.25, Pass - 2.25 to 3.99 and Good - 4.00). Your aspiring lawyer wife may explain to you you have committed a fallacy of reverse causation (post hoc ergo propter hoc) .

Edited July 26, 2009 by Thewayup

[Nepal4me]

The GPA is not calculated from the three grades, the grades are calculated from the GPA (Fail - less than 2.25, Pass - 2.25 to 3.99 and Good - 4.00). Your aspiring lawyer wife may explain to you you have committed a fallacy of reverse causation (post hoc ergo propter hoc) .

Thanks for this info. I wonder, can you advise if there is a way to determine specifically what her "P" grades would have been in each course?

i.e. To improve her GPA she could re-do a "P" grade in which she received a lower score. But if we don't know, she would only be guessing which "P" was on the lower end and which would have been on the higher end. She also took a long time to complete her undergrad because she was busy making babies for a while so a "P" grade from each specific course from some years ago might be hard to remember. (She is still within the 8 year window though). Thanks again....

[keemapoot]

My ex gf was studying law at RU. She was also working full time, and NEVER attended class. She claimed this was common as many students at RU also work. And, she never studied regularly, but would simply cram for exams at the last minute with the course books and pay for tutors to give her answers.

Not sure if that is a typical story, but she assured me it was. Hard to see how the degree program could be rated very highly if that is a typical story. Again, I don't know.

[jasreeve17]

I agree with almost all the above comments.

RU is well respected, very easy to enter, study by yourself (maybe never going to class), difficult to pass the tests and graduate. If you manage to graduate then you've applied yourself well; employers respect RU degrees.

Thammasart is better, but hard to gain entrance onto the course. I've met some very smart Thammasart law graduates - one of the (if not THE) top departments / faculties of any Thai uni.

Edited October 12, 2009 by jasreeve17

[GarryP]

I have read the questions in the exam papers for LW101 and LW102, which my son sat earlier this month and it is not something you could drill for in advance. They were extremely difficult.

As to the tutoring schools, they are quite popular and are good for new students to learn how to put their answers down on paper in the format required. There is a format that is adhered to by RU and if you do not follow that format, whether your answer is right or wrong, you will not pass. The tutoring schools do not give out the questions in advance. What they do provide is a load of questions that came up in past exams. While sometimes questions are repeated, it is very random. In the two exams my son took, one of the questions had not even been covered by the lecturers.

You cannot retake a "P" grade to try to get a "G" grade. You can only retake "F" grades, "F" meaning fail. If you are lucky, when you retake a failed subject, you may earn a "G" grade. However, I understand that your transcript will show that you got an "F" first time round, but your GPA will be based on all passing grades. That is, you canot cover up failed grades.

[Maizefarmer]

You guys must remember something about RU - anyone can go to it, unlike Thammasat and places like Chula where folk fight for places, if you finish school and apply for RU, you'll get in, you won't be denied a place - and its cheap cheap cheap. Classes start out each year big, and get smaller each year. Alot of folk don;t pull through the couses.

[Ijustwannateach]

It's perfectly respectable to get a degree at Ramkhamhaeng. What Madjbs says about Thammasat is true, but you should consider the social factors at play and ask your wife which environment she would be more comfortable in.

[daifuku1616]

Think it depends what she's after really.

For her personal satisfaction, I guess it doesn't matter which Uni as long as the course stimulates her.

For networking purposes, many thais i've met prefer Sasin as many business owners or Hi-So kids go there for studies.

[WhiteShrek]

As Simon43 said respected by whom? - Actually he said by "who?" but we'll forgive him...it's just that there might be a few intellectuals on this thread - so I hoped I'd distract them as to my own inadequacies

From here on I'll go back to my usual swamp language.... preferring the easier branch of descriptive rather than prescriptive linguistics, and the triumph of pragmatics over semantics, in case someone picks me up for my crap English.

On the 1 hand. Hav' come across lots of peeple - Thais and non-Thais - who look down on the university, particularly those from a "nisit" background and foreigners who don't have a high opinion of many Thai universities. It's also often considered to be the university where the 7-11 employees do their studies - mass production open to anyone that got through M6 regardless of actual ability. It's widely recognised that you don't have to turn up to many lessons. The large number of students that don't get thru first time, and go the "scenic route" over many years, is considered by many a reflection of the quality fo people that go their.

On the other hand, one of my longest standing Thai friends once gave me another version. They said that the people that go there are often down to earth and hardworking. The large class sizes mean it is often harder to get the same level of interest or support from a lecturer. Often the students support theirselves by working at the same time as studying. Some have family commitments they are managing at the same time. Hence someone who gets through Ramkamhaeng after 6 years has probably really earned it, and shows an admirable persistance and dedication. Simply put graduates from RKH haven't been handed their degree on a plate. There's some thruth in this. As someone said above the number of people that finish at all is lower than other unis, in addition to time to complete the deegree.

For me I take each individual as they come, and try not to pre-judge. Unfortunately many in Thailand and elsewhere won't...

Edited October 12, 2009 by WhiteShrek

[Nepal4me]

My ex gf was studying law at RU. She was also working full time, and NEVER attended class. She claimed this was common as many students at RU also work. And, she never studied regularly, but would simply cram for exams at the last minute with the course books and pay for tutors to give her answers.

Not sure if that is a typical story, but she assured me it was. Hard to see how the degree program could be rated very highly if that is a typical story. Again, I don't know.

This is consistent with my wife's experience, altho it was in Political Science not law. My wife rarely attended RU other than in the week before the tests and met with the tutors. They didn't give the answers per se but they did give a lot of information on the types of questions that would be asked and enabled my wife to streamline her studying so to speak. Each final test even in the 4th year (if I can use that term), she only crammed, never studied throughout the term. She could cram for her 7 "books" as they call them for the 3 or so week period before the tests and could quite easily pass the courses that way. She might not get good marks every time but no problem to get a "P". She also did say that Law would be much more difficult than Political Science so studying in this manner would not likely work. Way too many specific laws to remember.

[CWMcMurray]

I think you will find that most of the students at RAM are working their way through college. It is well known to be easy to get into but hard to finish.

I think that unlike most other Thai Univeristies, the additional stress of working and studying along with the need to study and prepare more outside of the class are major contributing factors as to why the completion rate is so low.

My own opinion is that only a person who is self motivated and able to study well on their own (outside of the classroom) will likely finish with a degree. I think many employers may realize the same.

[keemapoot]

I should add that my ex gf also was not noticeably worried whether she passed an exam or not. She had a rather carefree attitude of "if I don't pass, I can always retake it." It seems there is no penalty for failed exams, and since they do not put in class time, the only wasted time is in the cramming and paying for tutors.

[Nepal4me]

I think you will find that most of the students at RAM are working their way through college. It is well known to be easy to get into but hard to finish.

I think that unlike most other Thai Univeristies, the additional stress of working and studying along with the need to study and prepare more outside of the class are major contributing factors as to why the completion rate is so low.

My own opinion is that only a person who is self motivated and able to study well on their own (outside of the classroom) will likely finish with a degree. I think many employers may realize the same.

I think you are right that only self-motivated people will complete an RU degree. Not that it is difficult, simply that it's easier to just not bother, you don't have the peer pressure of "normal" schooling helping to push you and motivate you through. It's really not hard to finish if you put a little effort in. Imagine in a Western Uni only having to study for one test to complete a subject. My wife studied maybe 10 hours per test and could get a "G" score on many of her tests. The "easy to get into and hard to get out of" saying really isn't true. It's easy to get out of if you are not too lazy to put in a relatively minimal amount of effort.

I should add that my ex gf also was not noticeably worried whether she passed an exam or not. She had a rather carefree attitude of "if I don't pass, I can always retake it." It seems there is no penalty for failed exams, and since they do not put in class time, the only wasted time is in the cramming and paying for tutors.

My wife was the same, she would occasionally take a test where she had done virtually no study. She thought "maybe I can pass it and if I don't, I'll do better on the retest 3 or 6 months later". Makes it easier to upgrade an "F" to a "P" or a "G" later.