Chinese Money Lenders

[Pattaya_Fox]

Thanks guys. Must say I really like this forum - good responses all around and a nice atmosphere. The only response I didn't like was criticized by others.

I left out some details since I was not sure if I want them in the open in a forum I didn't know. I was not aware of that loan and it's about the third time in almost four years that she "tricked" small amounts out of me. It's my experience that you can sink 10 grand a month into the family and after 2 years there's absolutelt nothing to show for it. When I met her, I took care of her immediate probs which cost me something like 60K. It's not my first time in Thailand and I am wawre of the fact that the girls wouldn't be working in a bar if they jadn't some serious financial problems. But after the initial fix-up (hospital bills for the birth of the baby the "husband" didn't pay aso) I sent her mother 2000 Baht amonth, told her that's it. They live far away and we have no contact. Then she hocked my motorcycle without my knowledge, had to bail it out. Then 16K for the sister. No big amounts. She says: "When I ask you, you say no" and that seems to be enough reason to steal - that's what it is. But I know the family pressures her, and she doesn't go out and gamble or drink or buy telefones or goldchains. She has to help the family. She is otherwise a very honest and hard working woman, and I love her and the daughter, now 5. So I forgive her as long as it doesn't escalate, and it didn't. Of course she promises she'll never do it again. Maybe I shouldn't be so stingy with her, but I'm trying to get by as an english teacher. We live a comfortable life but I can't support the family.

Basically I was looking for a way out, but guess I'll have to pay. So no new Honda Wave, but a donation to the poor of the Isaan. I can live with that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh my friend you have fallen into the trap....your heart is ruling your head and because you are head over heals in love with this lady you are unable to make rational judgments as you would do if you were back in your own country.

She has deceived you by the sound of it on more than one ocassion and you continue to bail her out.

Your first mistake was the initial payment of the 60,000 baht....from there on you were the soft touch for the family.....you can almost hear the family chants " Satang...Farang"

What you have to realise (but you won`t because of your emotional involvement) is that there are many honest ladies out there, and that you do not need a relationship which causes you grief on a continual basis.

Why not take a deep breath and use a little helecopter vision on this and look down on your situation and weigh up the pros and cons.....maybe even cool the relationship a little and give yourself some space to think about your future.

I am not posting this information lightly.....I have had a very similar experience to yours in the past and I went through a nightmare with a lady for a number of years until I saw the light.....and do you know within 4 months she had married another farang.

Good luck whatever you decide to do...but remember you only have one life and you are intelligent, you work hard and you deserve the new Honda

[booma]

Pay off her debt only as severance pay...That is to say, pay off the debt and walk away....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If your going to walk away, pay nothing!

It is her problem! OK if you love her and she risks getting hurt, help.

It would probably do her no favours, in the long run, if you were just to roll over and cough up. My guess is she would only do it again, and maybe on a bigger scale next time! Do you know why she borrowed the money in the first place?

Make her show some real commitment to trying to sort HER problem out before even hinting that you might be willing to help her! (At the very least say to her you will double any money she saves).

You have to be very firm with her! This, obviously, cannot happen often!

B

[Harmonica]

Thanks guys. Must say I really like this forum - good responses all around and a nice atmosphere. The only response I didn't like was criticized by others.

I left out some details since I was not sure if I want them in the open in a forum I didn't know. I was not aware of that loan and it's about the third time in almost four years that she "tricked" small amounts out of me. It's my experience that you can sink 10 grand a month into the family and after 2 years there's absolutelt nothing to show for it. When I met her, I took care of her immediate probs which cost me something like 60K. It's not my first time in Thailand and I am wawre of the fact that the girls wouldn't be working in a bar if they jadn't some serious financial problems. But after the initial fix-up (hospital bills for the birth of the baby the "husband" didn't pay aso) I sent her mother 2000 Baht amonth, told her that's it. They live far away and we have no contact. Then she hocked my motorcycle without my knowledge, had to bail it out. Then 16K for the sister. No big amounts. She says: "When I ask you, you say no" and that seems to be enough reason to steal - that's what it is. But I know the family pressures her, and she doesn't go out and gamble or drink or buy telefones or goldchains. She has to help the family. She is otherwise a very honest and hard working woman, and I love her and the daughter, now 5. So I forgive her as long as it doesn't escalate, and it didn't. Of course she promises she'll never do it again. Maybe I shouldn't be so stingy with her, but I'm trying to get by as an english teacher. We live a comfortable life but I can't support the family.

Basically I was looking for a way out, but guess I'll have to pay. So no new Honda Wave, but a donation to the poor of the Isaan. I can live with that.

Shouldn't you be in school, son? Do your parents know what you're doing?

[thedude]

put her behind a bar Rolo, that should teach her.

[bkkmadness]

Don't listen to these people's advice telling you to walk away.

Buy the Honda and drive away.

[Hoi]

Get a new girl friend. its not your debt.

[aughie]

Wake up and smell the roses, you're just being used as a money machine and nothing else.  Does someone need to hit you with a frying pan to get your attention, jeez and I thought jackasses were stupid. You are either a troll or one of the most gullible or stupid people I ever seen.

I think he should be looking for a way out of the relationship, She is running up debts, lying to him,  selling his possesions...A real dream girl...wake up she will continue to rob you as long as you keep letting her.. get rid asap

If you don't respect your money none else will. She and her family only do to you what you allow them to do.

She has money rat-holed. Instead she will seekout someone to pay it don't let it be you. It is not your fault you are moving on. She knows it so don't worry about it. The world revolves around her and her family, guys like you come in and go out. Khawjai mai? The way she sees it you stick around because you like it this way otherwise you would make a change. Clean up your life and begin enjoying it. Seriously. Why be miserable?

Good luck.

-a

[Rolo Tomazi]

Yes, I understand the advice: finish her, she'll do it again. I probably would if the daughter wasn't involved, which I love extremely; she already said she'll rather stay with me than with her mom. But at that age she needs her mother. -

No, if someone told me this story, I'd say the same: wake up, grow up, forget your heart, THINK!!! -

I've lived 20 years abroad, had tons of relationships, and don't think I'm dense; even though I'm in the middle of it I'm not just dreaming. If she would have wasted the money, she'd be gone for sure, kid or not. But she needs to support her mother, had to take their land title to the chinese, since I said no. And I as her friend am the only one who can bail her out.

I know several farangs who give their girls thousands of Baht "pocket money" every month, that's probably the reason why their girls don't steal. My girl works, takes good care of our little family. She is a hard working, honest girl under pressure from her family, and she loves me - I've had pretenders and I think I can spot them. And three incidences in over three years with a total of about 100.000 Baht is not really stealing me blind, it's more like taking care of the most pressing needs.

She promised to tell me the next time about the problem before she takes up a credit, and I believe she learned through this experience. If not, then yes, I am very gullible, but I'll take that risk since the relationship is worth it to me.

And since I will have the title to her land, I have a bit of control and leverage.

[Erwin1011]

Yes, I understand the advice: finish her, she'll do it again. I probably would if the daughter wasn't involved, which I love extremely; she already said she'll rather stay with me than with her mom. But at that age she needs her mother. -

No, if someone told me this story, I'd say the same: wake up, grow up, forget your heart, THINK!!! -

I've lived 20 years abroad, had tons of relationships, and don't think I'm dense; even though I'm in the middle of it I'm not just dreaming. If she would have wasted the money, she'd be gone for sure, kid or not. But she needs to support her mother, had to take their land title to the chinese, since I said no. And I as her friend am the only one who can bail her out.

I know several farangs who give their girls thousands of Baht "pocket money" every month, that's probably the reason why their girls don't steal. My girl works, takes good care of our little family. She is a hard working, honest girl under pressure from her family, and she loves me - I've had pretenders and I think I can spot them. And three incidences in over three years with a total of about 100.000 Baht is not really stealing me blind, it's more like taking care of the most pressing needs.

She promised to tell me the next time about the problem before she takes up a credit, and I believe she learned through this experience. If not, then yes, I am very gullible, but I'll take that risk since the relationship is worth it to me.

And since I will have the title to her land, I have a bit of control and leverage.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's your heart, your life, your decision. You know the risks. the title gives you no leverage. it's easy to say you stole it. And she will be believed, not you.

[p_brownstone]

And since I will have the title to her land, I have a bit of control and leverage.

I don't see where you have mentioned this in an earlier Post but I can almost guarantee that you are mistaken, and possibly being taken for a ride – yet again.

As a Foreigner you cannot own Land in Thailand - if she has signed some document which purports to give Title to you in some way, it is unenforceable under Thai law.

Patrick

EDIT

Sorry, I just read Erwins' Post, perhaps I misunderstood.

If you mean that you simply have physical possession of the Chanote or other Title Deed for her Land, it is still worthless; as Erwin said, all she has to do is report it stolen and get a copy. Again, as a Foreigner you have absolutely no rights to the Land, or even to hold the Chanote as "leverage", in fact if you try she could well report you to the police for having stolen it.

Sorry but you are on a loser here all the way Rolo - she also undoubtedly realises your attachment to her daughter and is using that to put pressure on you to forgive her constant deceits.

Leave, Rolo - it will only get worse.

Patrick

Patrick

Edited March 3, 2005 by p_brownstone

[Rolo Tomazi]

I was thinking of holding on to that title so she can't hock house and land again.

That she could report it stolen didn't cross my mind - good point.

But, fool in love I am, I'll give it one last try. I had too much of a good time the last years, well worth the money. I'll see if I can turn this thing around, and who knows, it just might work.

I can hear you guys booing in the background, "What a dumbass!! He don't deserve better!"

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks for your patience.

[bkkmadness]

Well, if your going to pay it, make her pay you back a bit each month out of her wages so she actually learns the error of her ways and learns that you will not bail her out of any situation, and make it a last chance situation.

It seems other than this your quite happy with her so maybe worth giving it a go, but I think many posters are saying, don't let it go on and on and ruin your life here.

To be honest though, if my gf stole from me that would be it, first time would be enough, but anyway, good luck with it.

[Rolo Tomazi]

Maybe she don't need to steal because you provide well.....

That leads me to a question to anybody who has a Thai girlfriend: How much are you giving her? Monthly allowance, clothes money, school money, supporting her family (just a few Baht so grandma can stuff her opiumpipe), pocket money aso... Did you buy her a gold necklace, a motorcycle, car, land, house? How much did she get out of you in how much time? - Or is she supporting you?

I know that when Thai girls get together they show off their goldchains and talk about how stingy their farang boyfriends are. The guys among each other talk about how little she needs, and the girls try to outdo each other with talking about their "catch" and show off their trophies...

Most guys I know around here have spent way more money on their girls than I did....

[bkkmadness]

Maybe she don't need to steal because you provide well.....

That leads me to a question to anybody who has a Thai girlfriend: How much are you giving her? Monthly allowance, clothes money, school money, supporting her family (just a few Baht so grandma can stuff her opiumpipe), pocket money aso... Did you buy her a gold necklace, a motorcycle, car, land, house? How much did she get out of you in how much time? - Or is she supporting you?

I know that when Thai girls get together they show off their goldchains and talk about how stingy their farang boyfriends are. The guys among each other talk about how little she needs, and the girls try to outdo each other with talking about their "catch" and show off their trophies...

Most guys I know around here have spent way more money on their girls than I did....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My gf steals nothing from me because she's not a thief, even when needing money she has never robbed my stuff and sold it, and if she did, she'd be out the door.

I don't give her any monthly allowance, don't buy here clothes, she works and provides for herself. She has no excessive habits that cause her to need more money than she has such as gambling/drinking etc. Yeah I pay the rent, but she covers the UBC bills and that. It's not being tight, just I'm trying to start a business here so can't be splashing out loads of cash to her, as I don't on myself.

To be honest a person that steals from their friends, family or bf/gf/husband/wife is pretty ###### low in my book.

[Limbo]

I don't give her any monthly allowance, don't buy here clothes, she works and provides for herself. She has no excessive habits that cause her to need more money than she has such as gambling/drinking etc. Yeah I pay the rent, but she covers the UBC bills and that. It's not being tight, just I'm trying to start a business here so can't be splashing out loads of cash to her, as I don't on myself.

...Mr.BKKmadness enlighted us.

Ok, lets all look for grilfriends who don't want a monthly allowance, who don't want that you buy clothes for them, who work and provide for themselves.

And who have no excessive habits that cause them to need more money than they need as as gambling/drinking etc.

Yeah, pay the rent, but let her pay the UBC bills and that.

Not because being tight, but because you are trying to start a business here and you cannot afford splashing out loads of cash to her, as you wouldn't on yourself.

Pfffft...

Dear Rolo,

Divorcing a thai lady is more difficult than entering a relationship.

Mr. BKKmadness (hope you can take a joke) might belong to the category of foreign husbands who work for years to set up a business, finally like all the others who thought 'this will never happen to me'' gets divorced and looses (according to Thai law the wife is entitled to half of the possessions after 2 to 3 years living together, even without being married) the result of his endeavours.

Divorcing means being prepared for a couple of months suffering. But it is better than a hair in your soup everyday.

I wish you strenght!

[bkkmadness]

I don't give her any monthly allowance, don't buy here clothes, she works and provides for herself.  She has no excessive habits that cause her to need more money than she has such as gambling/drinking etc.  Yeah I pay the rent, but she covers the UBC bills and that.  It's not being tight, just I'm trying to start a business here so can't be splashing out loads of cash to her, as I don't on myself.

...Mr.BKKmadness enlighted us.

Ok, lets all look for grilfriends who don't want a monthly allowance, who don't want that you buy clothes  for them, who work and provide for themselves.

And who have no excessive habits that cause them to need more money than they need as as gambling/drinking etc.

Yeah, pay the rent, but let her pay the UBC bills and that.

Not because being tight, but because you are trying to start a business here and you cannot afford splashing out loads of cash to her, as you wouldn't on yourself.

Pfffft...

Dear Rolo,

Divorcing a thai lady is more difficult than entering a relationship.

Mr. BKKmadness (hope you can take a joke) might belong to the category of foreign husbands who work for years to set up a business, finally like all the others who thought 'this will never happen to me'' gets divorced and looses (according to Thai law the wife is entitled to half of the possessions after 2 to 3 years living together, even without being married) the result of his endeavours.

Divorcing means being prepared for a couple of months suffering. But it is better than a hair in your soup everyday.

I wish you strenght!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was just explaining my situation Limbo, of course I don't care about what money people give their girlfriends, but what I'm saying is there is no excuse your girlfriend stealing from you just because she thinks you don't provide here enough money.

I don't think everybody should be looking for a girlfriend like mine at all, christ if anybody's looking for one like her, you can have mine

But I do hope we are all looking for a gf with at least a few of the basic qualities, ie. honesty, won't rob your bike etc.

Luckily not married, so can't get divorced , and all cash from biz will be going offshore, and no physical presence here really, so nothing to be halved, nothing in the company in her name etc. Good luck on her if she thinks she can get it

[Kringle]

I know that when Thai girls get together they show off their goldchains and talk about how stingy their farang boyfriends are. The guys among each other talk about how little she needs, and the girls try to outdo each other with talking about their "catch" and show off their trophies...

If anyone has a gf/wife like the ones you're talking about then you are in a bad relationship. Just crazy to even think that a woman like this is any good. Good luck to you but to me you're in the wrong company. Are you here in Thailand ALL the time or do you go out of country and if so, are you sure you are the ONLY sucker she has paying the bills?

[Rolo Tomazi]

I'm here all the time, and with her all the time, so I know what's going on. maybe I exaggerated a bit, but you can be sure that your girlfriend talks about money with her friends, that's they way they are, and it's not much different in other countries. A girl with a big goldchain sends other girls the message: I'm successful, my man has money, I'm not a poor countrygirl.

[Rolo Tomazi]

It's gotten kind of quiet around here since I popped the support question...

And I must say, after a total of almost 5 years in Thailand, I've heard lots of stories and seen quite a bit. I'd venture to say a Thai girlfriend that supports herself and pays for anything is not the majority, I'd say she's the exception. Actually in about 90% of the Thai/farang couples I know the farang takes care of everything while the Thai girlfriend just takes care of the household. What this everything includes I don't dare to ask. But I know lots of them send money to her parents.

Maybe it's different in Bangkok where one might meet students or working girls. Ooops, let me rephrase that - girls with a real job, making money and taking care of themselves. But most foreigners hook up with a girl out of a bar, who already has a serious money problem, otherwise she wouldn't be there in the first place. And after love blind farang took care of all the problems simply by going to the bank, it's difficult not to ask again - the sister needs a new pick-up to sell fruit in the market, mother needs a new roof on the house, and the brother is in jail because they caught him selling yaa-baa. There's always something, and if she doesn't take care of the family, they will give her a hard time when she returns after the relationship with the farang is over. And she knows just too well that that happens all the time...

Any thoughts about my ramblings...?

[uhuh]

quote: "according to Thai law the wife is entitled to half of the possessions after 2 to 3 years living together, even without being married"

can anybody confirm this?

[Wekhin]

quote: "according to Thai law the wife is entitled to half of the possessions after 2 to 3 years living together, even without being married"

can anybody confirm this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is no such law.

[shotover]

Any thoughts about my ramblings...?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Rolo, Just a quick thought. I would be among those saying drop the girlfriend because it's obvious (and understandable) that she has placed the greediness of her family above her feelings for you (not always this simple, but one thing to consider). However, her daughter who obviously does care a lot for you is not so easy to abandon.

Not an easy position to be in, and no easy solutions. One route to consider is to pay off the debt within your budget and time constraints, and stop the flow of money for family desires. The current status of her creating debts cannot be sustained within a limited budget.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

quote: "according to Thai law the wife is entitled to half of the possessions after 2 to 3 years living together, even without being married"

can anybody confirm this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thai law has absolutely no recognition of a common law or de facto relationship.

[pedro01]

Thanks guys. Must say I really like this forum - good responses all around and a nice atmosphere. The only response I didn't like was criticized by others.

I left out some details since I was not sure if I want them in the open in a forum I didn't know. I was not aware of that loan and it's about the third time in almost four years that she "tricked" small amounts out of me. It's my experience that you can sink 10 grand a month into the family and after 2 years there's absolutelt nothing to show for it. When I met her, I took care of her immediate probs which cost me something like 60K. It's not my first time in Thailand and I am wawre of the fact that the girls wouldn't be working in a bar if they jadn't some serious financial problems. But after the initial fix-up (hospital bills for the birth of the baby the "husband" didn't pay aso) I sent her mother 2000 Baht amonth, told her that's it. They live far away and we have no contact. Then she hocked my motorcycle without my knowledge, had to bail it out. Then 16K for the sister. No big amounts. She says: "When I ask you, you say no" and that seems to be enough reason to steal - that's what it is. But I know the family pressures her, and she doesn't go out and gamble or drink or buy telefones or goldchains. She has to help the family. She is otherwise a very honest and hard working woman, and I love her and the daughter, now 5. So I forgive her as long as it doesn't escalate, and it didn't. Of course she promises she'll never do it again. Maybe I shouldn't be so stingy with her, but I'm trying to get by as an english teacher. We live a comfortable life but I can't support the family.

Basically I was looking for a way out, but guess I'll have to pay. So no new Honda Wave, but a donation to the poor of the Isaan. I can live with that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow - through thick & through thin with that one aren't you.

I'd consider dumping her.

[pedro01]

I can hear you guys booing in the background, "What a dumbass!! He don't deserve better!"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jeez - you could hear me ??

[pedro01]

I'm here all the time, and with her all the time, so I know what's going on. maybe I exaggerated a bit, but you can be sure that your girlfriend talks about money with her friends, that's they way they are, and it's not much different in other countries. A girl with a big goldchain sends other girls the message: I'm successful, my man has money, I'm not a poor countrygirl.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sooooo wrong.

My wife will not wear any gold/Jewellry around er family, her friends & my work colleagues - she think it looks like she's showing off.

They aren't all like yours, you know..

[p_brownstone]

I'm here all the time, and with her all the time, so I know what's going on. maybe I exaggerated a bit, but you can be sure that your girlfriend talks about money with her friends, that's they way they are, and it's not much different in other countries. A girl with a big goldchain sends other girls the message: I'm successful, my man has money, I'm not a poor countrygirl.

Sooooo wrong.

My wife will not wear any gold/Jewellry around er family, her friends & my work colleagues - she think it looks like she's showing off.

They aren't all like yours, you know..

For sure!

Wearing Gold chains, bracelets etc. is a dead giveaway to other Thai women that the wearer is in fact a "Country girl".

At Social events or when dining out with me in a fairly formal setting my wife will wear a good watch, her usual Amulet (on a silver chain - not gold) plus - at most - a couple of rings with good sized stones - diamond or yellow saphire for example

She would not be seen dead wearing a gold necklace.

In fact over 30 years ago when I first met my (now) wife, the first present I gave her was a gold necklace with matching earings; nothing was actually said at the time but it was received very cooly indeed and she has never, ever, worn it - it's still in the original box in the safe here at home.

Patrick

[sriracha john]

It's gotten kind of quiet around here since I popped the support question...

And I must say, after a total of almost 5 years in Thailand, I've heard lots of stories and seen quite a bit. I'd venture to say a Thai girlfriend that supports herself and pays for anything is not the majority, I'd say she's the exception. Actually in about 90% of the Thai/farang couples I know the farang takes care of everything while the Thai girlfriend just takes care of the household. What this everything includes I don't dare to ask. But I know lots of them send money to her parents.

Maybe it's different in Bangkok where one might meet students or working girls. Ooops, let me rephrase that - girls with a real job, making money and taking care of themselves. But most foreigners hook up with a girl out of a bar, who already has a serious money problem, otherwise she wouldn't be there in the first place. And after love blind farang took care of all the problems simply by going to the bank, it's difficult not to ask again - the sister needs a new pick-up to sell fruit in the market, mother needs a new roof on the house, and the brother is in jail because they caught him selling yaa-baa. There's always something, and if she doesn't take care of the family, they will give her a hard time when she returns after the relationship with the farang is over. And she knows just too well that that happens all the time...

Any thoughts about my ramblings...?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

here we go again Rolo.....

I think it's all situational. It depends on who you're hanging out with. Your experiences seem quite different than mine. In my circle of friends, the vast majority did NOT marry bar girls. Thailand, and TV by extension, is very diverse.

Perhaps you should try to experience some of the other lifestyles that are available here, since you don't sound so pleased in the one you're currently living.

[chanchao]

> I can hear you guys booing in the background, "What a dumbass!!

> He don't deserve better!"

Yeah, we're a real online reality daytime talk-show here. I nominate Boo to play Ricki Lake.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[chanchao]

Did someone fart inhere or did I schmell a troll...

"Poor English teacher who can't afford a Honda Dream because his ex bargirl girlfriend has to loan money to send home.."

Ok, I guess that happens. But I don't really trust posters that make these kinds of encouragements:

> "It's gotten kind of quiet around here since I popped the support question..."

Which was an encouragement by the way on telling 'how much you spend on your tg' which not only is completely beside the personal issue at hand, it's also very likely to lead to yet another 'my girlfriend is better than your girlfriend' slag fest.

Anyway... everyone gave their advice, OP is giving it anther go, Honda loses a sale, Man U gets their arse kicked at 2.