New Bangkok Airport To Operate March 2006

[Darkling]

It's not at easy as we though to run a new airport even Hongkie having system break down after 2 days grand opening in new airport.

We hope it really run good and not like under ground train which have so many problems.

Does AOT using Siemen train too??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No thats master bates with is boat.

[cdnvic]

Anyone surprised here?

I am. I figured they would rush through the completion and deal with the glitches and disasters later. a'la the subway.

cv

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Anyone else noticed that Thai people love to bandy percentages around generally..?!

ChrisP

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are stll a lot of obstacles to overcome to make the March deadline.

[kreon]

its obviuos that there are people here wth lilimted knowledge about th construction business

the % completion only relates to the bare construction of the airport

what is the main concern, as happend in hong kong and kl, is the support packages, such as technical equipment, interior ft-outs of lounges, check-ins, restaurants etc, electrical, mechanical, data and the list goes on and are mostly of the unpredicable 10% part, an we have not even talked about the testing as yet

as anybody knows in th construction game, the last 10% are always the nightmares, and more than often you can kiss your last 10% payment goodye because of delays, dont believe me ask the germans at b+b

my believe is that they can open around that time and will continue to clean up the bugs after that, thats' wht they did in kl and hong kong(where they have still power failures!)

[hokiefan]

"AoT chairman Srisook Chandrangsu said the delay to March next year is aimed at ensuring the safety of airline passengers. The delay will be spent test-running systems being installed at the new Bangkok international airport, he said.

But he dismissed a notion that the delay was forced by construction problems, saying most construction was only slightly behind schedule and workers would be able to finish projects on time."

The delay is not due to construction problems but rather for system testing??? I guess system testing was not included in the project plan??

As for estimating completion percentages, many times on large projects like this it is done based on actual expenditures compared to estimated total project cost. With the last 10-20% of expeditures taking the longest part of the time (i.e all the systems work and testing, fitout work, etc..)

While there are many large construction projects all over the world that are overbudget and late, it seems there are many more in Thailand (i.e BTS, Subway). In the US it is common that a contractor is rewarded for early completion and penalized for late completion. It does not seem that these contractual provisions are used in Thailand.

[roiet]

Here we go again.......people in this forum having a swipe at the Thais !!!!!

Very seldom are large projects finished on time anywhere in the world and its certainly common pratice in the uk to estimate completion by percentage.

86% may be a little precise but with the monies involved it may be relevant.

We must remember, that at least for the moment the terminal has not collapsed, as happened at both Heathrow and Paris !!!!!  We should not be critical for critisism sake.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Swiping seems to be common practice in this forum.

Large projects like this always create new challenges during construction and add to the delay. Just look at the challenge to build runways on soft ground. At the end the testing of software for running all these facilities creates new surprises etc, etc. Highly rated american, european companies often face problems with projects of this size. So this happens anywhere in the world.

[ovenman]

While there are many large construction projects all over the world that are overbudget and late, it seems there are many more in Thailand (i.e BTS, Subway).

Large infrastructure projects are often late, I think that is to be expected. I don't know that it's the case that Thai projects are any more or less late than similar projects elsewhere. What is laughable (for me anyway) about this new airport project is the dogged insistence by the authorities until merely a couple days ago that the new airport would be open in a matter of months.

[joe beets]

re: swipes at Thais

I don't see the construction process as being the butt of these swipes.

As for the spinning and boasting and empty promises of the toxic one and his flunkys-

Have at.

They've more than earned it.

[MaiChai]

Can I ask a question? Original they were going to leave domestic at Don Menung and just move international to the new airport. Is this still the case, as its going to make transfers a nightmare without a train link in place. Anyone know?

[poot_thai_maidai]

The new airport will be for both domestic and international departures and arrivals....im not sure whats gonna happen with Don muang though,

[cdnvic]

The new airport will be for both domestic and international departures and arrivals....im not sure whats gonna happen with Don muang though,

There's been talk of it being used as a cargo airport. Maybe it will be a private airport for holders of the Thailand Elite Card.

cv

[MaiChai]

Thx 4 responding. So how do you get into town with the new airport; a long taxi drive? When is the train service due to start? Or should we just head down to Chonburi and give BKK a miss

Golf course probably needs expanding...

[george]

Update:

Govt downplays delay in opening of new airport

PHANG-NGA: -- Thailand’s new international airport is now expected to open for business next March, several months behind schedule. The delay is to ensure that the airport facilities will be functioning properly, according to a senior government official.

The postponement of the opening will allow the new airport’s safety system to comprehensively tested, the Permanent Secretary of Transport Ministry, Wanchai Sarathulthat told TNA.

The safety at the new Suvarnabhumi Airport is of great concern to the government, said Mr. Wanchai.

The delay of the airport’s opening will not cause any serious implications, he insisted.

The new airport was scheduled to open on 29 September.

Subcontractors need more time to fix new facilities and run safety tests, but only a small fraction of the work has been delayed.

Mr. Wanchai said he hoped these companies will finish the work as soon as possible, otherwise they will face fines.

The government hopes the Suvarnabhumi Airport will become a central part of Thailand's bid to become a regional aviation hub. When completed, the airport should accommodate 45 million passengers a year.

--TNA 2005-02-27

[atulmangalmurti]

Now there is a good subject for a betting pool, guess the date the new airport officially opens for daily business. I keep hearing from subcontractors on the project that it has a long long way to go. Major operational system designs have not been approved yet by the government, much less finalized and put out to bid. I just changed my address and it took two weeks of paperwork, I cant imagine what its like to design and procure a radar system for a major airport.

I bet it opens in the last half of 2007 if there are no economic earthquakes.

I think John B Good is spot on when he says that 90% of the work is in the last 10% of the project. Its really easy to pour concrete but sealing roofs and getting communications working can be a beast.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i got one more friend who has same opinion - opening 2007. reasons are different. some stated technical but other stated political. think what marketing stunt we saw at IMPACT few months before elections. next vanue " new airport"

[xbusman]

I would like to take exception to a few comments about major building projects being late all over the world. The Japanese have become zen masters of precision large scale planning with large projects hitting schedules right on target over and over. In particular, the last winter Olympics held there was one of the best planned and operated in history.

No, this whirlwind of incompetence is plain fun to watch in Thailand. I think it is best when I take a cue from the Thais and laugh with all this zany posturing and not at the people involved. There is a differance between offending your host and enjoying the show. It will eventually open when it is ready to be open despite the best efforts of either political party. It will be rife with operational start up bugs, there will be at least a few corruption cases associated with it, and in the end we will all be coming to one of the nicest airports in the world stuck right in the middle of nowhere with a three hour taxi ride to get to Bangkok.

[BPayette]

I would like to take exception to a few comments about major building projects being late all over the world. The Japanese have become zen masters of precision large scale planning with large projects hitting schedules right on target over and over. In particular, the last winter Olympics held there was one of the best planned and operated in history.

No, this whirlwind of incompetence is plain fun to watch in Thailand. I think it is best when I take a cue from the Thais and laugh with all this zany posturing and not at the people involved. There is a differance between offending your host and enjoying the show.  It will eventually open when it is ready to be open despite the best efforts of either political party. It will be rife with operational start up bugs, there will be at least a few corruption cases associated with it, and in the end we will all be coming to one of the nicest airports in the world stuck right in the middle of nowhere with a three hour taxi ride to get to Bangkok.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would like to differ on the Japanese projects. Look at the airport they build in the middle of the bay (Osaka, think). It may have been on time (don't know for sure) but it's SINKING! I would rather have an airport late than have to jack up a few metres every year or so.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The new airport will be for both domestic and international departures and arrivals....im not sure whats gonna happen with Don muang though,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There's been talk of it being used as a cargo airport. Maybe it will be a private airport for holders of the Thailand Elite Card.

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That'll cut the queues down Vic

[Diggerbasher]

By next March the whole site may have sunk into the swamp.Is it still sinking?

[Sphere]

Well then, let's spend that extra time building some more concourses at Don Muang.

[cutter007]

After talking with some of the contractors who are associated with the systems integretion (last 10% of the project), March 2006 has about a 20 - 25% chance of being met. That is to say they will have to make some major changes to how they are doing things now, to make the new deadline.

Of course most major infrastructure project around the world are delayed, I just think most people find it humorous the way Thai politicians make very agressive promises on situations that really shouldn't be commenting on.

I equate a promise from Toxin about the airport with about as much weight is if

Bush announced the winning numbers for tomorrows lottery jackpot.

Of course he probably doesn't have any idea what the numbers will be, but I might lift an eyebrow because someone with that much power obviously knows more than I do.

As for the train system, I don't even think they are finished taking bids for the project, so there is absolutely no chance, that it will be operational by March 2006.

Even when it will be complete, it is not going to link Don Muang to the new airport.

I think the domestic thing at Don Muang, was just some moron spuwing at the mouth.

Tell me why you would build a brand new airport and then leave all the domestic traffic at the old one, in the end making it even more difficult for travels, than the old airport.

Can't remember who sugggested the domestic/international split up, but I can probably guess the party he's a member of, aka "Thai's spuwing at the mouth

to other Thai's" party.

[ovenman]

As for the train system, I don't even think they are finished taking bids for the project, so there is absolutely no chance, that it will be operational by March 2006.

I read in the newspaper a short while back that the estimate was three years from start of the rail link project to its completion (of course that estimate can be taken with the appropriate grain of salt). I don't believe the bidding process for that project has closed either.

[DaveYo]

Yes Kansai is still sinking but slowly. Nothing they can do about that and the Japs already knew it was going to sink over the course of time. So armed with that knowledge, they do add more land outside the edges from time to time and it is a much bigger land mass now than the beginning. We all know eventually they will have to reconstruct the airport again, but that is years away so to speak.

As of the new airport, better they do it correctly and use the time needed to get it done. Also keep in mind that they are making it far more secure than Don Muang and rightfully so against possible terrorist attacks in the future etc. Also they have to configure such layouts for larger aircraft that will be coming in the next 10 years so in a sense this airport will be the most modern and largest yet ever built.

Kansai my goodness is huge itself, and so is Incheon and the New Narita along with Hong Kong International. These airports themselves dwarfs the American airports by a mile plus.

American airports by the way are very old indeed, and those airports for the most part were built in the 40's and 50's. So to compare it to todays standards they are bursting thru the seams just barely able to accomodate the 747 jets.

These same airports are not even conditioned to accommodate the new 380-600 that will soon come out. The 380 alone needs a much longer runway, and to make it brief, Incheon and Hong Kongs runway length just barely meets the requirements for this type of aircraft. LAX is another. But Chicago has to add another 3,000 feet to take on a 380 jet which is 14R and the only runway capable of making the specs. However Chicago wants to reconfigure their airport to make a dual landing and take off sequence like SFO and LAX. Yet they have no more room to make the runways larger unless they buy out a bunch of land surrounding the airport in its current state. So it will be soon happening in USA that they too will have to be updating their airports to catch up and be up to date, but the traffic flow will be a passengers nightmare all by itself.

Just my two cents in this issue

Daveyo

[Humphrey Bear]

Yes Kansai is still sinking but slowly.  Nothing they can do about that and the Japs already knew it was going to sink over the course of time.  So armed with that knowledge, they do add more land outside the edges from time to time and it is a much bigger land mass now than the beginning.  We all know eventually they will have to reconstruct the airport again, but that is years away so to speak.

As of the new airport, better they do it correctly and use the time needed to get it done.  Also keep in mind that they are making it far more secure than Don Muang and rightfully so against possible terrorist attacks in the future etc.  Also they have to configure such layouts for larger aircraft that will be coming in the next 10 years so in a sense this airport will be the most modern and largest yet ever built.

Kansai my goodness is huge itself, and so is Incheon and the New Narita along with Hong Kong International.  These airports themselves dwarfs the American airports by a mile plus.

American airports by the way are very old indeed, and those airports for the most part were built in the 40's and 50's.  So to compare it to todays standards they are bursting thru the seams just barely able to accomodate the 747 jets.

These same airports are not even conditioned to accommodate the new 380-600 that will soon come out.  The 380 alone needs a much longer runway, and to make it brief, Incheon and Hong Kongs runway length just barely meets the requirements for this type of aircraft.  LAX is another.  But Chicago has to add another 3,000 feet to take on a 380 jet which is 14R and the only runway capable of making the specs.  However Chicago wants to reconfigure their airport to make a dual landing and take off sequence like SFO and LAX.  Yet they have no more room to make the runways larger unless they buy out a bunch of land surrounding the airport in its current state.  So it will be soon happening in USA that they too will have to be updating their airports to catch up and be up to date, but the traffic flow will be a passengers nightmare all by itself.

Just my two cents in this issue

Daveyo

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Possibly the reason that Boeing are not following the Airbus theory of large, larger, bloody ginormous, operating between major hubs - but using smaller, more economical aircraft that will deliver you to your door (almost), by flying long distances to more local airports.

With regard to other points raised in this thread, I was told a year ago by the people running this project (ha ha) (NBIA) that the option at that time was for international flights to be based on S'boom, domestic on DM. Maybe there has been a rush of common sense since.

The blather about safety is because the CAA will not grant any operating licence until all systems have been proven over a reasonable length of time. It is not the Thai government's concern for airport safety that rules here, it is the simple fact that no airline will be allowed to fly into S'boom until it has it's international licence to operate.

Some of the radar equipment is already installed. But the control tower is still in the concrete-casting stage. So a year from now is the minimum that one should estimate. Say all equipment is installed in a completed control tower by September / October this year - then S / O next year seems to be the educated guess. This is not baggage handling kit (that was the scandal at Chep Lak Kok) but essential safety equipment.

With regard to access, it will be by road - through Lad Krabang. That's the Motorway to Chonburi. There will be a minor connection from the ground-level part of the Bang Na / Trat highway, but no connection to the Skyway. And no train service in Phase 1.

On the books are Phases 2 and 3. Phase 2 is a central terminal with facilities for passengers and more cargo, plus a rail connection to Terminal 1. Phase 3 is a mirror-image of Terminal 1, with road connections to the Skyway (the b+b 6 billion baht claim project). When all are in place the airport will be able to handle about 80 million passengers per year. Pity the infrastruture will not.

I am going to take to task the supporters of Japanese management contractors. The record here is dismal. I have worked with Marubeni, Chiyoda, Kajima, other Japanese contractors on other projects, and have no fault to find. But here everyone is an amateur. No decisions, no co-ordination, nothing. Could it be the Thai system of 51% local input, 49% foreign? ITD have no management skills on this project whatsoever.

I have been a project manager on major hospitals, power stations, similar size moneywise, shorter construction time. Always brought in on time, usually within budget. I have grown ten years older in the past year, trying to adapt our construction programme to fit with the main programme, which is revised on a weekly basis. What was a sequential progress rapidly deteriorated into a 'grasshopper' schedule, jumping from activity-to-activity, location-to-location without rhyme or reason.

Absolutely no management skills have been shown by the Main Contractor over the past two years.

That's my rant and I'm sticking to it!

[DaveYo]

Hey Humphrey, your right smack on the money concerning Thais making rational decisions, which obviously their history of such speaks for itself. They cannot even design anything straight over here, much less even know how to lay down concrete the proper and correct way. Every building they make the concrete begins cracking up within 2 to 3 years or falls to the ground.

They don't build here with steel beam support. They build here with cold rolled steel rods. If you don't believe me, take a drive anyplace here in Thailand, and examine the construction of their building of any make or size, and see how they build their walls and what kind of bricks they use here. It is awful scary to say the least. I shudder to think what a small tiny earthquake will do to these buildings.

Oh by the way, in case anyone does not know, they even have chainsaws and its parts on the controlled and restricted list, including PUPPY DOG CHOW!!!!!!!! I am having problems now with customs concerning this and the reasons they are giving me is a load of total crap. They said they are concerned about a chainsaw stripping away their forests!!!!!!!!! I told them what forest since they have hardly any forest worth cutting, and besides every tree here is infested with TERMITES and RED ANTS!!!! So who would want to even cut that wood for themselves etc, and besides I am not a forest seeker either. They then stumble around looking for another answer to give as reason etc, and I finally told them it is my tools and to let it thru. Then they got into my Puppy Dog Chow saying 24 small sealed cans is too many for my puppy Schnops and you should have seen my face contort in so many ways I let them have it nice and sweet.

In any rate, their reasoning and the way they think and try to plan and or try to make any rational decisions is definitly for the birds. All they are concerned is getting some extra money for their next meal to take out the family on a shopping spree.

Like I have said before, Thais do not know the meaning of being neighborly to others. Only money makes them your neighbor. If you don't have the cash they don't want to do jack shito anything for you much less look at you. This is the Thai way simple as that.

But if they know you got something hot and valuable with you, you can bet one of two things. Either you pay them blood money so you can get your stuff, or if you did that much, and you have it in your possession at home they will wait to hit your house to steal it when your gone. So my advice to all farangs is if you have anything considered valuable here in Thailand, make sure you have an ultra heavy burglary proofed custom made steel safe embeded down someplace and keep it locked up. Then you know your stuff is going to be just fine. Thais hate steel, but love wood.

If you don't believe me, well just look around here too, and you will notice all the doors are wood, and they open outside, with the hinges on the outside, and the locks are so pickable they can get inside within seconds using a screwdriver and a nice stiff credit card. This includes their windows too!!!!!!!!!!

If you are at some place, please change the way the doors are constructed to open inside and close from the inside and that your hinges are inside, not outside. This will curtail burglars to a great degree when they cannot get to your hinges or to your door latches. The cost is very cheap and well worth some piece of mind and gives you at least better protection, short of having steel door and frame construction. Oh by all means do buy DEAD BOLT LATCHES ONLY. Nothing else is safer than this item.

Daveyo

[pyros]

Don Muang probably will be a huge golf terrain for the happy few . Next to the cargo airport that is . It is way to big to be just a cargo airport , so they'll make a large hotel inside with all accomodation and they expend the golf course to a bigger one . Private jets will be able to land there , to make it a exclusive golf club ... just a idea from me . It won't be a domestic one , well you never know but it sounds silly to me . You need to have a constant travel between Don Muang and the new airport ... no ... can't be the case .

I think the new airport ( Su..something ) is able to park 5 A380's at the same time . I cannot wait actually till this is working at full speed , seems huge . Allthough i must say , i like Don Muang airport , much better then most European airports ( all i've been ) .