Nan: First Visa “non-o” Marriage Extension

[goodguy]

Interesting story. I remember my first extension, only thing they wanted was the fee, the documents, the photos, and a month to decide, it finally took three months. but was OK. Only trouble is bizarre requests for the same map and photos every year even though we have never moved.

Is it really 500,000 Baht money in the bank now?

This de-centralisation policy they are pursuing has opened the door for these petty medieval minded extortion attempts by corrupt country officials.

I heard there is no right of appeal if the office rejects your application, that's it, you are history.

He would have been laughing his way around the golf course had you paid, about your fake receipt.

How on earth can such poorly paid officers afford to play at the prices the golf courses charge?

[Lite Beer]

Is it really 500,000 Baht money in the bank now?

It is 400,000 Baht.

[victor15]

In this case you need to ask yourself, was this an outright bribe request or a payment to off-set the costs in sending someone to review your marriage status, which for a first time marriage visa is quite normal.

It will be interesting to see how your marriage visa extension develops, pleased keep us updated.

Yes this is a blatant bribe request, normally the immigration officer doing the investigation would (if the address is far away) ask the nearest police station to check with neighbors, very rarely do they actually come to your house.

[mca]

or a payment to off-set the costs in sending someone to review your marriage status, which for a first time marriage visa is quite normal.

Yeah right. Which if it were the case instead of a bent official trying to make the next payments on his new Camry would have something like this printed on the Immi website

" A fee of .......baht will be charged to first time visa extension applications based on marriage to offset the costs of officials investigating and determining the legality of the marriage"

[realitymanagement]

Good for you. Don't pay any bribes.

Report them.

It takes more strength to do so but they may think twice next time.

[Artisi]

or a payment to off-set the costs in sending someone to review your marriage status, which for a first time marriage visa is quite normal.

Yeah right. Which if it were the case instead of a bent official trying to make the next payments on his new Camry would have something like this printed on the Immi website

" A fee of .......baht will be charged to first time visa extension applications based on marriage to offset the costs of officials investigating and determining the legality of the marriage"

From what has been posted here previously it seems that Nan Imm. are asking for a medical certificate when applying for an extension, this is not an official Immigration extension requirement - so would you refuse to comply with their request - I doubt it very much if you wanted your application to proceed.

And I don't agree with corruption either, but it seems that immigration office's can make their own rules, a fee to investigate legitimate marriages, request for a medical certificate, photo's of your house, location map - or anything else they deem necessary.

[Nerone]

I am 58 and live in Phitsanulok...

Perfectly agreed with what you did. If you know some thais that works in the police or at high places for the government make them call for you and ask to the "big boss" what is going on. I think it will help....

[mca]

he should have compromised with something like (well sir I have 500 baht or perhaps 1000 baht on me and that would have been accepted).

I hope if you have kids you've instilled in them the same sort of self respect that you obviously hold.

[beano2274]

This kind of thing should be reported, it is obviously not for the purposes intended. The local police get a phone call from the Immigration office and check on you, how does that constitute a 3000baht fee....

All villages and areas have Patrol Policemen, they actually do the checking not Immigration, in my last condo my Police friend did it.

It's like the corruption in Suan Phlu, I see the staff there given presents from people who do visas for a company, this is also because the officer helped them, but the officers know that at the end of the day, they will get something from the applicant or the applicants agent. This is definitely corruption or maybe even could be a bribe, in the present is there an envelope with money in??? Who knows!!!!!!

I have to go to Ayutthaya in November, there is no way that I will pay the 3000baht, I live in Nonthaburi, my condo is about 1km from the Nonthaburi Police and Government offices, so Immigration can forget that. Also my Patrol Policeman friend lives near me, and also the Police Patrols here all know me.

Edited August 2, 2009 by beano2274

[goatfarmer]

Interesting post. In my 14 years living here I've never encountered such a situation. I've paid "service fees" once or twice for an additional 'service', but never been subject to extortionate demands in order to have a duty performed where I had already paid the scheduled fee.

The latter is simply a case of extortion, which is a form of intimidation: "pay up or else". Giving in to intimidation is a fool's policy: it only results in further attempts at intimidation. I would not want to be marked as a sucker. On the other hand, there is a cost benefit calculation to make: how much time is it worth spending to prove a point? A compromise perhaps. Law is one thing. Custom is another.

I would probably also try not to handle the situation directly if there were an 'expedition fee' involved, or anything I deemed unseemly. An intermediary would be more diplomatic.

To the poster who thinks we should suffer any indignity because we are guests in the country, I would say that even a guest has rights.

[Mario2008]

1 off topic has been deleted.

[Mario2008]

1 comment deleted. Please be civil in the forum.

[phetpeter]

Something fishy here perhaps!!, the OP should read the Central Forum and the posts - " Nan Immigration for Petchabun residents" particularly the one from Aitch52, a good friend of mine who has just changed from Retirement to Marriage extension.

I was at Nan in May for retirement extension and just paid the required 1900 Baht plus 1000 Baht for a single re-entry permit, no problems and despite the longer journey so much less hassle than the dreaded Room 101 at Suan Plu.

I thought the staff at Nan very helpful and upstairs from the air conditioned office I had a good talk about golf with the Big Boss!, I just spotted the photo's of golf on his wall behind his desk, he told me about a 9 hole course in Nan and bring the bats next year!.

I think the reason for money grab is because it was your first application and they are trying to milk the virgin! I also attend Nan and my wife upset the women who sits on his left. Normal problem of the official opening her mouth stating something without checking the law! and then refusing to admit she is wrong even when you have placed the correct legal requirements in front of her! Still to save face he did state that after the first 90 days, for us to go back and he would then change my visa.

Of course he's forgetting that it is a shit journey to make from Phetchabun. So I hope they get the new office up and running ASAP.

And I agree you should stand your ground. and not allow underhand payments to be given. Keep smiling till you have everything and then report the officials.

[moskito]

Should I:

● Pay nothing and do nothing except just keep going back until I get the visa?

● File complaints with the agencies mentioned above?

● Go back in 30 days apologize for being insensitive, present my backside for penetration and offer to pay?

● Something else?

Anybody else experiencing this? If so, how much did the bastards demand?

Oh, and the good news? Before the sh!t hit the fan, they told me an immigration office would open in Phitsanulok next year to service Phitsanulok, Petchabun and Pichit.

[/font][/size]

Guess its not easy to make the right decisions here. There are not much choices what YOU can do, except to contact the office in BKK again with absolutely no outcome at least.

I think they will give the Visa to you next time you visit the office without further questions to make the story not bigger as it is yet.

If they dont, ask why and contact the mainoffice in Bkk or a lawyer, but if possible not directly in front of them, remember? they have the power to do WHATEVER they want to do!

guess there where two mistakes. The clothes which showed HERE COMES MONEY (sad but true, guess they like these full tatooed, barefeet, topless guys more in the meantime) and your telephone call.

Another thing is, you still have the choice to go for another country and apply for the Visa there, it will cost you more than 3000.- but at least you dont bow infront the big cheese.

The mistake is always on the farang side. There are a lot of guys here who pay teamoney when ever asked for.....but later cry CORRUPTION. In my eyes you did nothing wrong, I got the same probs here in Phuket with our friendly immigration in 2006 when they refused my grandfather status...I fly to Bkk....with NULL outcome.

DSCHOK DEE

[TongueThaied]

The law is a part of Thai culture too and corruption is against Thai law. Isn't it right that one wants to see the law uphold?

That's a very smart thing to say: law is a part of the culture. Could you explain me how this works in a country that had to make laws against culture to avoid being colonialized ? I mean shouldn't we all wear sarongs having good looking topless women all over the place?

It's very good to uphold the law indeed, and I'm totally sure you never broke it, ever?! (and if you did brake it, I hope you got your punishment and couldn't buy your way out)

If you know thai law just half as good as you seem to, you will have to admit that you broke it already, right? (and if you are not aware braking it, then you did so without knowing)

In any way guys: uphold the law! (if it means closing down pattaya and co. shouldn't be a problem, as long as we are fighting for the right cause)

I've read several of the Northern Goat's posts and, though I admit he got my goat, I had the intention not to take his bait. But, as he is a master baiter, I cannot pass the opportunity for a witticism of my own. I have read so many posts on Thai Visa where people trying to have a legitimate discussion about an issue in Thailand wonder why people like the Old Goat must intervene with know-it-all, usually derogatory comments, that typically lend nothing to the discussion. And now he wants to put the "brakes" on the law. Or, did you mean "break," Old Goat, in which case I can only comment that your literacy parallels your intellect. Why don't you give us all a break and put on the brakes, if you have any.

Edited August 3, 2009 by TongueThaied

[TongueThaied]

Then I am so glad that my Thai wife is one of the 20% who will stand up against corruption.

Got herself threatened and nearly sacked when she reported corruption in her own office and didn't back down an inch. I am very proud of her.

As for putting myself on the other side of the desk, yes I have more money than the immigration officer, I guess that makes me lucky, but it doesn't make me give into any attempts of extortion.

How about looking at it the other way. There are plenty of people richer than myself in Thailand. Is it ok if I scam and steal from them too?

Thank you for this post. I am proud that my wife is also in the 20% and had an experience similar to that of your wife. She was chosen to be on a three person panel to decide of the award of a public constuction contract to one of three bidding contactors. Two of the panelists already had the winner chosen -- a guy that was "in" with the local government. My wife said that was not the proper choice, as there were "irregularities" in his bid, and despite tremendous pressure stood her ground. They then threw out all the bids, reconstituted the panel without my wife and the guy won. Did she change the outcome? No. But she was dam_n proud to have stood her ground against the corrupt practices. For the record, the ocurred before I met her. And for all the people out there who were NOT WITH US IN NAN, but think they know everything (the Old Goat comes to mind) she neither lost face, nor was she embarrassed by my stand. She speaks English very well, I speak some Thai and we have very open and honest communication with each other. She clearly states that she was emabarassed FOR her countrymen, and a little afraid of the official who she knew to hold a lot of power over me. After it was over, she was very happy with how we handled it.

I may be richer than the immigration official, but I am not rich. If I lay out 3,000 baht everytime I turn around, I will NOT have the 400,000 I need to stay here with my family. We live on my wife's salary and I help her dad on the farm, cutting weeds, pruning trees, planting, fixing things. We live way out in the country. As for the work permit, I have informed the school principal that I can no longer volunteer until I get a work permit.

I have to ask a rhetorical question. Most of the people on this forum are expats living as guests of this country. As such, we all have our challenges (with language, culture, the law, etc,). Why is it that when somebody reports an action on this forum that he or she did with good intention, there are so many on this forum that respond with wishes of bad luck ("I just hope the "big cheese" makes you run back and forth till you wish you gave him the money..." Northerngoat)? Why is this a solution? How does it help? What is the purpose? Sorry for picking on YOU, Old Goat, but you do seem to be the classic case of bottomless bitterness.

[Tod Daniels]

The amount of "this is thailand, accept it or leave it" mindless rhetoric one reads here on a daily basis is enough to make the mind wobble. Sadly, most of it comes from long stay ex-pat 'experts' who have the balls to trot out the old adage; 'this is how it's always been done". Those same people seem to conveniently lose their balls when it comes to questioning something they know is not right.

I'm glad you and your wife stood up to what was and clearly is nothing more than an in your face extortion attempt. Don't EVER be afraid of going higher up the proverbial food chain when faced with things that are not right. Often times doing it right in front of the person giving you grief can really expedite an situation.

Remember; it is only by people questioning what the "status quo" is, especially if it's corrupt, that any change is effected in the long run. . I find the foreigners here with their sheep-like, wanna-b-thai, sock puppet mentality who preach that we as foreigners must accept things as they are quite an un-redeeming lot of miscreants.

I routinely question thais about things I don't understand or believe to be just plain false information. Too often accepting what they tell you at face value is, well, it's valueless. Surprisingly, in all the times I've questioned their 'decision making process' I've never once had them cop an attitude toward me. Sometimes they try to pretend to shuffle papers, or count paperclips, but I just have the tenacity to stay at their desk, never displaying anything more than the standard idiotic fake thai smile, no matter how vexed I am. Once in a great while they’ll try to hide behind the "you don't understand thai culture" (a true oxymoron, if there ever was one), but on the whole, I get answers. More times than not I am directed to the person who actually has the answers I need. I prefer that rather than some know it all "cluck" (sorry; clerk) pulling what ever answer they think fits best out of their asses.

You may be in for some run around, but I wouldn't back down. Neither would I "offer to make a deal", as advocated by other "in the know" yet surprisingly equally clueless posters. In my humble experience; once you start down that slippery slope you're unlikely to ever claw your way back up to level ground.

Perhaps a trip to your local police station where you could talk with someone who actually has a say in things could expedite this from your end as you're so far from the Immigration Office.

Good Luck, stick to your guns, don’t give in, don’t give up. Let us know how it all pans out.

[Mario2008]

And that was enough bickering. While one might agree or disagree if it is a sensible thing to do, OP doesn't deserve to be picked on becaue he chose to stand up against corruption.

Let's keep it civil in our comments. I hope I made myself clear.

[Mario2008]

1 post has been deleted at the request of the poster.

[aitch52]

Hello Tongue Thaied

I hope you managed to get your extension with no problems, when the gratuity was requested I thought uh oh, here we go again, got the nod from my wife and agreed to pay it after asking what it was for, I was told diesel and food. A couple of weeks later, a police Lieutenant and 3 Sergeant Majors arrived at my home in Phetchabun, they were chauffered by a civilian driver in a presumably hired, unmarked private vehicle with no plates . They stayed for a couple of hours and were very inquisitive but also very polite and correct. My wife and 2 of her family were interviewed by the PSM's and long forms, 3 sheets of A4, were compiled for them to sign.

I sat with the Lt and went through dozens of our wedding photos, him asking who's this, who's that, where's that. We then had a stroll around the garden, he asked the names of our 4 dogs and 2 cats etc etc, how do I feel living so quietly and isolated from other Farang, what do I do to keep myself occupied and questions of that nature. Refreshments were offered and they accepted soft drinks and nibbles only and were very professional in their manner.

As I am regularly ripped off by my own government, £88 for a passport, £37.28 for a letter proving income, £113 tax per month, even though I have only been back for a couple of weeks in the last 11 years, 3K didn't seem such a high price to pay.

I travelled up to Nan on 18th August and received the extension with no problem, they also said that the office in Phitsanulok is opening very soon. I would also like to point out that I do not view my adopted country through rose tinted specs, it is becoming increasingly difficult visa wise and I do admire your stand.

Good Luck to you

Chris Aitch

Edited August 26, 2009 by aitch52

[bapak]

Now wait a minute. My wife (Thai) teaches English at the local high school and has for 25 years. Are you saying that if I come into my wife's classroom at the invitation of my wife and the school principal to demonstrate western word pronunciations (an "l" sound is an "l' sound, not an "n" sound) as a volunteer two days a week with no compensation of any kind (not even free lunch), I need a work permit? Are you sure?

The official definition of work is "to engage in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits"

http://thailand.angloinfo.com/countries/thailand/employ.asp

Unfortunately that's the way it is. In your situation it's most likely there would be no consequences but, TIT.

Remember the guy in Phukett who was charged for not having a Work Permit as he had been elected to his condo committee (or something like that)..

Bapak

[paulnewman]

I was recently told by a very long-time P-lok resident farang that P-lok will have an immigration office opening (in P-lok) Sept. 7 for P-lok, Petchaboon and Pichit. (Not next year as I saw above.)

Sorry I don't know more beyond that, but I figure someone might want to check it out.