Is Multi-culturism Good For A Country?

[Daewoo]

I have been reading through this thread especially how it relates to Australia where I live, and Thailand that I love…

I'll get to the point at the end…

I don't think that multiculturalism is Australia is a complete failure, but it has introduced large issues that we have not managed to deal with…

In Australia in the 70s and 80s, organised crime was predominantly to domain of the Italian immigrants, and the trade unions… Since Australia accepted large number of immigrants from Lebanon due to the Civil War there from the mid 70s, some things have changed very much for the worse…

We have a very big problem now in Australia, and particularly in Sydney with Lebanese groups, often sons of immigrants, who are particularly over represented in organised crime and increasingly violent…

I believe that this goes back to a different culture which doesn't have the same work ethic as 'typically Australian' and culture that is all about sitting around in big groups of men, smoking and talking, rather than about working 50 hours a week and going home to your family… therefore, these men do not seek regular employment, but rather the fastest route to easy cash, which is crime… I think that combined with their naturally aggressive or quick to enrage personalities has lead to a lot of violence, beyond anything that we have seen here before, and has turned large parts of Sydney into no-go areas… Of course this also has links to the Arab mentality of spoiling male children, giving them an exaggerated sense of entitlement… It starts off with guns and knives in school yard fights, and just escalates… but I don't think it is particularly an issue of religion, because there are many non-Arab Muslims in Australia (Malay, Indonesian, European), and none of the problems… but they have a different, typically Australian work ethic...

Australia has always been multicultural, but in many ways integration was aided by the workplace… 50 years ago, most of Australia was working class, and immigrants entered into the working class… Mario was working beside Harry, Harry realises that these daigos (same same <deleted> or wops) aren't so bad, Mario has Harry and Olive over for dinner, Maria cooks a typical <deleted> feast, and suddenly Olive is borrowing recipes from Maria and Harry is eating spag' bol' for dinner… New races always took about 10 years in become well integrated… most of the Lebanese came during their civil war, so we are pushing 35 years since that started, and there are still massive problems (in Sydney anyway)…

I think that most other races have become part of Australia pretty well, there are of course issues with Vietnamese and drug importation, and the Chinese also with drugs and also gambling and prostitution, but to say that is a problem with 'multiculturalism' per se wouldn't be right…

Of course I feel some concern that I am loosing my identity as an Australian, (or my kids are), because my identity is being diluted as fast as the Anglo faces… it seems in Sydney, Anglo is only about 10%-15% even less in the City… but then again, my best mate is a Muslim Paki, and 50% of my mates come from non-Anglo backgrounds… and I like that… much more interesting that all of your friends being just as boring as you…

So what does this mean for Thailand???

Thailand is a large country with relative low population compared to China just a stones throw away… It is a short flight from most anywhere, and the 'start-up costs' (finding accommodation, buying food, supporting oneself) is within the means of most people from other countries… I think the Thai's have a genuine right to decide how much they want to become the minority in their own country… I don't think that applies in Australia, because most of the countries development has been on the back of (non-Anglo) labour… (spare me your references to Aboriginals, they are a whole different issue and not relevant to this discussion)… They should also seek references from around the world, as to what races and cultures integrate well and add value to the community, or sink to the bottom and create problems… I am unsure whether the current lack of social services in Thailand is an aid to this (making in unattractive for people who don't want to work) or worse (pushing them into criminal activity)…

My belief is that no-country should have an obligation, without boundaries or limits, to accept whoever has decided their country is a good place to be… and unfortunately, for many of you, that means the Thai's have a right to choose who and how many 'white farrang' they allow to settle within their borders...

Just my 2c, thanks to both the people who read all of my dribble…

Daewoo

Edited August 3, 2009 by Daewoo

[Harcourt]

LMFAO, you haven't a clue what you are talking about. Firstly I'm married to a Thai lady, why would I be a BNP supporter (I voted UKIP)?

I have the attitude of a frightened, poorly educated bigot? Poorly educated, yes (A big mistake was not finishing my education) But I've managed to run my own business for 24 years.

You think multiculturalism is a great thing, I don't, and it seems that if I voice my opinion then I'm a racist, bigot and every other thing under the sun. Like every member of the PC brigade, it's your way and your way only and everybody must fall in to line otherwise they are racist's or bigots.

Multiculturalism doesn't work and if you don't believe me then come to the UK and see the state of the country for yourself.

Please explain to me how I'm a narrow-minded, insecure and a bigot, because you say so?

Unlike you I'll refrain from name calling as I'll probably get chucked off TV.

Brigante7.

You're right. I have got carried away in the heat of it. I apologise.

I think that it's true that bigotry is born of fear and ignorance. I have uneccessarily brought my own abhorrence for bigotry into this debate.

It's hard to blame a cultural identity for something without sounding bigotted....in my ears anyway.

You point out that the UK is a living example of MC not working.

What I have been contending is that if there was no xenophobia amongst the hosts or the immigrants, that MC would not only work in the community, it would enhance the community. I witness this every day because I live in a multicultural society. The immediate neighbourhood, the suburb, the city, the country.... without putting on rose coloured spectacles, I see the multiculturalism here is welcomed by almost everyone....and the only people who find fault with it do take on a bigotted attitude.

I am not part of the PC brigade (hehe, I've just got back from a suspension from TV for being unPC ).

[Harcourt]

I disagree that we are all racist.

You may not be a racist but you seem to like refering to people who dont agree with you that they are somehow uneducated and of a class below yourself .... maybe youre insecure about having a lower class of upbringing yourself and hold a certain prejudice against them.

I'm not insecure at all. Quite confident actually. You may be right though that I'm guilty of "reverse bigotry" and "reverse snobbery". I won't apologise for disdaining snobs or bigots.

[david96]

Multi culturism, a "PC" word of the leftists, I prefer the term "multiracial," has worked in Australia, but one should remember that we are a nation of immigrants since 1788 and

Australia did not become a nation in its own right until 1901.

The "White Australia Policy" was introduced from 1901 to 1972. The requirements

relaxed after 1950 but the general rule applied.

From 1945 Australia developed the policy of "populate or perish" after WW2 and the

perceived "Yellow Peril" of the government of the day. It was proved wrong. (Two Wongs

do not make a White.)

Australia has an immigration policy and welcomes new immigrants and also encourages

them to become Australian citizens, the largest group who are not Australian citizens are

British. They have their reasons no doubt.

Many countries including Thailand do not have a formal immigration policy because they

do not need an increase in population and they like all countries reserve the right to

determine who enters and resides in their country.Foreign nationals should respect this

right (especially those from the US and UK).

The multicultural/ multiracial policies of the UK have not really worked, they seem to have worked in the US but race is still a problem there with the Negro, also there is

the historical development of how the US was founded and settled which has to be taken

into consideration.

Like the Native Australians ( Aboriginals) the Native Indians in the US are at the bottom of

social structure.

The religion of Radical Islam and its culture will be a problem for Western governments

in the future and they need to update their laws and legislation to combat it.

Four Somali men have been arrested in Melbourne, Australia for terrorist activities

on the 5/8/2009. They had become Australian citizens. They made certain statements

at their initial court appearance which insults normal Australians and will not go in their

favour. They belonged to a terrorist group which was not banned in Australia but was

banned in the US.

[Harcourt]

david96, "...The religion of Radical Islam and its culture will be a problem for Western governments

in the future and they need to update their laws and legislation to combat it...."

I have never heard of a religion called Radical Islam. Can you elaborate about it, please? Is it a translation of one of the radical groups names such as Jamah Islamiyah? Isn't the name "Islam" when tied to one of the radical groups more a political movement than a religion?

[david96]

david96, "...The religion of Radical Islam and its culture will be a problem for Western governments

in the future and they need to update their laws and legislation to combat it...."

I have never heard of a religion called Radical Islam. Can you elaborate about it, please? Is it a translation of one of the radical groups names such as Jamah Islamiyah? Isn't the name "Islam" when tied to one of the radical groups more a political movement than a religion?

Terrorism as practiced by radical Islamic groups, to them religion and politics are the same, the means justifies

the end, we are all infidels as far as they are concerned.

The term has been used by politicians and mentioned in the media.

[david96]

"A man should,whatever happens,keep to his own caste,race and breed. Let the White go

to the White and the Black to the Black."

Runyard Kipling.

In 1899. Runyard Kipling, the Empires greatest poet, addressed a powerful appeal to the

United States to shoulder its imperial responsibilities;

Take up the White Mans Burden

Send forth the best ye breed

Go bind your sons in exile

To serve your captives need

To wait in heavy harness

On fluttered folk and wild

Your new-caught, sullen peoples

Half devil and half child..............

Just shows how things have changed in the last 100 years. Or have they?

Edited August 6, 2009 by david96

[Harcourt]

david96, "...The religion of Radical Islam and its culture will be a problem for Western governments

in the future and they need to update their laws and legislation to combat it...."

I have never heard of a religion called Radical Islam. Can you elaborate about it, please? Is it a translation of one of the radical groups names such as Jamah Islamiyah? Isn't the name "Islam" when tied to one of the radical groups more a political movement than a religion?

Terrorism as practiced by radical Islamic groups, to them religion and politics are the same, the means justifies

the end, we are all infidels as far as they are concerned.

The term has been used by politicians and mentioned in the media.

George Dubbya was a politician. Frankly, expressions used by politicians (and the media for that matter) don't carry much credence with me.

[david96]

The facts are that the current crop of terrorists are being taught in Islamic institutions

by Islamic teachers in Islamic countries and they do not like Western Culture or

other cultures or political systems.

They must be regarded as criminals and removed from society.They have buckleys

chance of winning.

A big industry has developed since 2001, you only have to see the number of experts

on the subject and not one of them have ever seen a terrorist or worked as one, all "academics" they tell us it is very dangerous to travel overseas, except for themselves

and the politicians at taxpayers exspence. It is safe then. And there is a lot of money

and employment being made out of it. Conferences etc.

Not one of them has caught a terrorist. The ones involved in 2001 in New York were

all Saudi Arabians.

The West should leave the Jews and the Arabs to sort it out for themselves all we need

is the oil from the oil producing nations. Recolonisation and firm rule would be the answer

but that is not now practical. It would have been 100years ago.The British way.

If the US had backed the UK in 1956, the middle east would be under the control of the

West and a deal could have possible with the then USSR.

Terrorism started a long time ago.

But very few people worldwide are killed by terrorists, you are more likely to be killed

or injured in a traffic accident or at your work or occupation.

[Thakkar]

There was a time when Slavic Christians were terrorists fighting Ottoman oppression. There have been Jewish terrorists fighting for a homeland and non-denominational Palestinian terrorists fighting to regain their homeland. We've also had Catholic IRA terrorists and Tamil Hindu terrorists each justifying murder and mayhem in support of their respective causes. Not to mention atheist communist terrorists.

The flavor of the day is fundamentalist Islam with most acts of terror today being committed by self-proclaimed Islamists who falsely claim to speak for all muslims.

Let us not mistakenly assume that Islam is intrinsically more violent.

Let's also remember that to the mostly muslim civilian victims in Gaza, Lebanon, Iraq and Afghanistan, the terrorists are the Judeo-Christian guys bombing them from planes and helicopters.

It's convenient to stick a label on things, but that just gives us a dangerously false sense of understanding.

[Harcourt]

The facts are that the current crop of terrorists are being taught in Islamic institutions

by Islamic teachers in Islamic countries and they do not like Western Culture or

other cultures or political systems.

They must be regarded as criminals and removed from society.They have buckleys

chance of winning.

A big industry has developed since 2001, you only have to see the number of experts

on the subject and not one of them have ever seen a terrorist or worked as one, all "academics" they tell us it is very dangerous to travel overseas, except for themselves

and the politicians at taxpayers exspence. It is safe then. And there is a lot of money

and employment being made out of it. Conferences etc.

Not one of them has caught a terrorist. The ones involved in 2001 in New York were

all Saudi Arabians.

The West should leave the Jews and the Arabs to sort it out for themselves all we need

is the oil from the oil producing nations. Recolonisation and firm rule would be the answer

but that is not now practical. It would have been 100years ago.The British way.

If the US had backed the UK in 1956, the middle east would be under the control of the

West and a deal could have possible with the then USSR.

Terrorism started a long time ago.

But very few people worldwide are killed by terrorists, you are more likely to be killed

or injured in a traffic accident or at your work or occupation.

Along with your Rudyard (with a "d" if I recall) Kipling quote, and then this rant, I see what you're doing now . You're actually on my side of the argument, aren't you, you sly devil . By acting as if you are on the anti-MC bandwagon whilst being so irrational, you discredit the argument. Good on you, mate. Sorry to spoil your cover. Come back over and play it straight now.

[dumbnewbie]

multiculturalism is good for human beings in general, so is good for countries by default.

Why is that?

I dont say that you are wrong, but I wonder why you just establish the fact that it is good for human beings in general.

Smaller countries like, Norway, Finland, etc, have not exactly been over run with immigrants in the past.

I cant say these countries have suffered or lost out because of this.

Genetic diversity.....in the long run of evolution, it's a winner.

Pooling of knowledge.

Conglomeration of philosophies.

Others could add to this list.

Better food.

Cuter girls.

[dumbnewbie]

Canada is a wonderful caring country who tries to rectify many past mistakes by being overly sensitive to race, religion and cultural problems.

I guess this is the justification for multi-cultural policies in all Western countries, but I'm not at all sure these policies were designed with the best interests of immigrants & minorities in mind. What if their real purpose is to prevent assimilation and keep society stratified along ethnic lines? This is the actual result of multi-culturalism, so you have to wonder if this was the intention of those who conceived and implemented the policies.

For instance, in the US, many (most? all?) public schools force all kids with Spanish surnames into "bi-lingual" (Spanish) classes, even if they speak no Spanish and their parents are furious that their kids are being kept out of mainstream English classes. What could possibly be the purpose of such policies?

All Western countries have had high rates of immigration for many generations now, yet the political and business elites in all these countries are still remarkably homogeneous. You gotta wonder if this isn't by design.

[dumbnewbie]

Imperial historic kharma.....

The words of a pure liberal more then likely North American.

Im no imperialist i dont believe in overbearing governance, but the British Empire whilst obviously wasnt lilly white wasnt the evil empire folk such as yourself like to make out it was.

Ha! Try telling that to the Chinese, Indians, Malays, Persians and Arabs. Don't get me wrong - I'm a big fan of the British Empire, and I'm a Yank. Just like America, it did far more good than evil.

[Harcourt]

Canada is a wonderful caring country who tries to rectify many past mistakes by being overly sensitive to race, religion and cultural problems.

I guess this is the justification for multi-cultural policies in all Western countries, but I'm not at all sure these policies were designed with the best interests of immigrants & minorities in mind. What if their real purpose is to prevent assimilation and keep society stratified along ethnic lines? This is the actual result of multi-culturalism, so you have to wonder if this was the intention of those who conceived and implemented the policies.

For instance, in the US, many (most? all?) public schools force all kids with Spanish surnames into "bi-lingual" (Spanish) classes, even if they speak no Spanish and their parents are furious that their kids are being kept out of mainstream English classes. What could possibly be the purpose of such policies?

All Western countries have had high rates of immigration for many generations now, yet the political and business elites in all these countries are still remarkably homogeneous. You gotta wonder if this isn't by design.

Hmmm. Good point and food for thought. I suspect it is partly due to (understandable) conditions that prohibit immigrants from entering high level politics (Arnold Swarzenegger is prohibited from becoming president, for example), thus we only see 2nd or 3rd generation "foreigners" taking those top spots, and by that time, they are somewhat homogenous themselves in their language and attitudes.

[slapout]

If we look at the original question, use world wide examples, where it has/continues to benefit the country/society as a whole, in those countries where input from the foreigners/different cultures has been accepted/incorporated, then who can argue with success. Granted, there are cases, isolated/wide spread that can/are used by the die hard nationalists/isolationists, to argue but look at the so called developing/third world countries. What % of the population would pay, beg borrow, steal scam to get into those multiculture countries/societies?

[dumbnewbie]

I am free of all prejudice - I hate everyone equally

\hahahaha brilliant answer....and so true...... they are all b*stards, the lot of them....

HAHA! YES!

[Samuian]

be Cosmopolitan think Cosmopolitan - break down the walls - in your heads first, then the barriers of nationalism

become a world citizen and all these ridiculous questions or "problems" disappear!

[dumbnewbie]

...and let me also add that scientists still do not have an answer for where the explosion of life came from that occurred several hundreds of millions of years ago.....

No, but every religion, past and present, has an answer to that - just pick one and "have faith".

[slapout]

I am not a scientist but I was taught that the explosion of life come from creatures f..king each other, prior to that, the orgasmic explosion. Blame the worlds population overload on 'The wee ones/little people'

[dumbnewbie]

Henryalleyman: "..BTW what have been the benefits for the native Americans and Australians of the so called multiculturalism? ..."

Wool blankets, iron axeheads, steel knives, metal cooking pots, glass beads......

But also: Science. Education. Medicine. Philosopy....

Air conditioning? Television? Porn?

[dumbnewbie]

multi culturism is a joke

every country that has muslim, has problems

my home country, all neighbour countries of that

and... guess what... Thailand also...

who plants bombs and kills innocent people all the time, all over the world ???

not christian, not buddist, not jews, ...

Hahahahaha. I can only laugh at the ignorance. The bigotry is just plain sad.

Firstly, have you never heard of the Irish Republican Army? The Jewish Action Group and various others? Various Buddhist militant groups?

Lets ignore the clear evidence shall we. The IRA were attacking the British, the Jews may have had active terrorists in the past but can you name an attack of theirs in the recent past, and I don't think Buddhist militant groups are even worth mentioning. In contrast the other group that you compared them to seem to indulge in violence right across the world aimed at no particular target. And in reality when we discuss if multiculturalism is good for a country most people think of the detrimental impact of this particular group on the country's that suffer home them.

Yep. I would just add that the problem here is a way of thinking (religion/worldview) rather than an ethnic group, and that many people from a "Muslim" background are disgusted by what's going on and feel more victimized than anyone else because they feel tarnished by association. Muslims are the first victims of Islam - they have to shut up and live within its totalitarian rules or face draconian punishments. Those who speak out in favor of moderation or reform are often killed for "apostasy" or "heresy". Young people can't even date. Girls are killed by their own fathers or brothers. The whole thing is unbelievably sad.

Even more bizarre is that the West (UK and US mainly) which is responsible for the resurgence of fundamentalist Islam these past 30 years. The ruling elites of these countries had the brilliant idea of using Islam to fight Communism. And it worked - by replacing the Shah with the Ayatollah, they prevented a Communist takeover of Iran, which seemed about to happen. Then the "Mujahideen freedom fighters" bankrupted the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, Bosnian and Kosovar Muslims broke up Yugoslavia, and Chechens, Uigurs, etc. continue to destabilize Russia and China, all with plenty of secret support from the West.

But what a terrible price the people of these countries have paid. (Had Iran continued to develop under the secular Pahlavi dynasty, it would be a very advanced, progressive democracy by now instead of the Islamic hel_l-on-earth that it has devolved into). And what a terrible price non-Muslims all over the world are paying as well - primarily fear, but also many actual victims of terrorism. And there will be many more.

[DisainaM]

Porn?

Porn sites are a good point concerning racism in our days, cause they give an own section for - interracial porn -.

So, why is this an issue, to make a difference, what kind of race someone is belonging ?

Interracial dating is another expression, that tries to import race values in our mind.

When I have a look on these thai gals from fhm magazine,

http://upic.me/i/ow/bf08_4a7acd36.jpg

on the right side, there are to girls of mixed race.

If a societey can give their people of mixed races the same chances, like poeple with 100 % pure blood,

multi-culturism is working.

Thailand is on a very good way, not being infected by the Pol Pot virus of pure blood.

Edited August 11, 2009 by DisainaM

[wamberal]

I don't think that multiculturalism is Australia is a complete failure, but it has introduced large issues that we have not managed to deal with…

In Australia in the 70s and 80s, organised crime was predominantly to domain of the Italian immigrants, and the trade unions… Since Australia accepted large number of immigrants from Lebanon due to the Civil War there from the mid 70s, some things have changed very much for the worse…

We have a very big problem now in Australia, and particularly in Sydney with Lebanese groups, often sons of immigrants, who are particularly over represented in organised crime and increasingly violent…

New races always took about 10 years in become well integrated… most of the Lebanese came during their civil war, so we are pushing 35 years since that started, and there are still massive problems (in Sydney anyway)…

I think that most other races have become part of Australia pretty well, there are of course issues with Vietnamese and drug importation, and the Chinese also with drugs and also gambling and prostitution, but to say that is a problem with 'multiculturalism' per se wouldn't be right…

So what does this mean for Thailand???

My belief is that no-country should have an obligation, without boundaries or limits, to accept whoever has decided their country is a good place to be… and unfortunately, for many of you, that means the Thai's have a right to choose who and how many 'white farrang' they allow to settle within their borders...

I have abridged the above post, because I do not want to answer all the points raised, although most of them have some merit.

There are two major differences between Thailand and Australia (and Canada, I imagine) with respect to immigration. Australia (and I believe Canada as well) has a major, on-going, immigration programme, with about 150,000 people migrating here every year. Thailand does not have an immigration programme, as far as I know.

In today's world, a modern, trading country like Australia which has a major immigration programme has no choice other than to allow applicants from all other countries, races, tribes, religions, in the world. That is just a simple fact. If we want migrants, we are not allowed to discriminate.

I agree that the big Lebanese intake after the civil war has caused problems, but of course that intake was to some extent guided by humanitarian principles.

You will find that a lot of criminal activity in Melbourne is still the preserve of people of Italian extraction.

I remember just after the war (yes, I am an old-timer) my mother and her friends were flabbergasted when they saw "reffos" at the railway station speaking foreign languages. These were people who had fled here from Europe, of course. But up until then, all immigration was 99% white Anglo-Celtic in origin (although of course a lot of Chinese came here in the 19th century to look for gold, and we also had thousands of Afghani camel drivers - which is how "The Ghan" train got its name).

"Multi-culturalism" is just a way of saying that when we welcome people of different backgrounds here to live in Oz, we do not expect them to jettison all their old cultures and traditions. (My father, a Pom, barracked for England in the cricket all his life, although he fought for Austrlia during the war). That is how it should be. Australia's cultures and traditions will be modified and improved over time, as they have been for the last 200+ years.

If Thailand wishes to allow a handful of foreigners to live in Thailand, either to do business, or to retire, that is up to Thailand. However, as I said earlier, this is a totally different case to that of a country who has a large on-going immigration programme.

[dumbnewbie]

If they don't like the British or our way of life <deleted> do they continue to arrive ?

They continue to arrive because they want a better standard of living, not because they want to change their identity and whole way of life.

That is perfectly understandable and has always been true of most immigrants. The first generation generally hang with each other, speak their own language, dream of going back someday, etc.

But, their kids and grandkids will naturally become more and more assimilated IF they are not hindered from doing so by "Multicultural" policies, separatist religious ideology, etc.

[dumbnewbie]

david96, "...The religion of Radical Islam and its culture will be a problem for Western governments

in the future and they need to update their laws and legislation to combat it...."

I have never heard of a religion called Radical Islam. Can you elaborate about it, please? Is it a translation of one of the radical groups names such as Jamah Islamiyah? Isn't the name "Islam" when tied to one of the radical groups more a political movement than a religion?

What you've stated is the officially approved Politically Correct viewpoint on the subject, and I'm not sure I dare correct you. I'm still a bit new here and don't know how much I'm allowed to say.

[hammered]

The Nation state. Imagined communities. etc

Nothing wrong with concepts of multiculturalism in fact the compelte opposite. It is agreat idea. It is more the problems that go with the rise/creation of the (artificial?) nation state, borders, bounderies and nationalism (which isnt culture) and throw in a bit of racism and the most unequal distribution of wealth the world has ever known.

[Harcourt]

If they don't like the British or our way of life <deleted> do they continue to arrive ?

They continue to arrive because they want a better standard of living, not because they want to change their identity and whole way of life.

That is perfectly understandable and has always been true of most immigrants. The first generation generally hang with each other, speak their own language, dream of going back someday, etc.

But, their kids and grandkids will naturally become more and more assimilated IF they are not hindered from doing so by "Multicultural" policies, separatist religious ideology, etc.

Very true. This is evident in my country where there are many immigrants that clique together and speak English with a heavy accent, if at all, but their kids speak English like a Kiwi and there are several races in parliament (Euro, Chinese, Maori, Samoan,..off the top of my head.).

[Harcourt]

david96, "...The religion of Radical Islam and its culture will be a problem for Western governments

in the future and they need to update their laws and legislation to combat it...."

I have never heard of a religion called Radical Islam. Can you elaborate about it, please? Is it a translation of one of the radical groups names such as Jamah Islamiyah? Isn't the name "Islam" when tied to one of the radical groups more a political movement than a religion?

What you've stated is the officially approved Politically Correct viewpoint on the subject, and I'm not sure I dare correct you. I'm still a bit new here and don't know how much I'm allowed to say.

Read the forum rules and speak your mind.

I'm not sure Which statement you are referring to as PC. I made a comment followed by several questions, so I have to assume you're referring to David96's statement.

I wouldn't call it PC.....you'd better clarify Dumbnewbie.

[sunholidaysun1]

I cannot see why they cant ALL just go back to their own countries and preach to their own goverments about their civil rights instead of demanding from my country (UK). It used to be called going on holiday when you travelled anywhere to experience another country / culture, then you went HOME. It would be nice for all of those now in my country to do just that !!

Come for a holiday then return to your own country instead of polluting ours.

No doubt I will be cursed for my view but what the hel_l , I am a Brit .