Ex-supremo Threatens Use Of Force If Pardon Blocked

[webfact]

time to call elections or cut a deal with Thaksin

i dont see reconcilliation happening any other way.

Eight Thaksin haters preceded your message mc2. Trying to get a read of this board...that is 8-1. Ya have to admire the power of agenized media when they have a captive audience.

The powers that be are really spooked by five million, three hundred thousand petition signatories...How to deprive them is a problem. So far, just ignoring them has worked for the most part, aided and abetted by their friends, but such petition responses is difficult to deal with reponsibly.

Even on this board, I have suggested a number of mediative/negotiated responses to the petition, and you have suggested some excellent alternatives. The compromised Thaksin-haters on this board can only reply with invective and vitriol, because that is all they are fed by what they read.

I challenged them several times to come up with politically astute response possibilities to the petition, but got nothing. They are just too hide-bound to the mindset that has been formed by what they have been reading the past three years.

fervent, how many times do you need to be told by posters here, regardless of anyones political affiliations, the petition and is relevance is moot, it does not qualify for submission under the current rules

you can waste more time, more money and seek more sensational headlines by sending it to the high court for an informed and legal desicion but the answer will be the same

neither the beneficiary or the petition is legal or acceptable to be allowed to continue along its path

wether you, the redheads or i disagree about that, it makes no real difference

the law is the law, the pardon system is a well trodden path and political pressure nor threats of violence can change the laws of qualification

apart from that, why would anyone, let alone the great man himself, make an exception for someone who ran away from justice and abused his power to steal money from the same people he now claims to love.

what he is spending every day whilst on the run, would feed a village for a month

if he was a man he would come back to face his accusers, not try to start a revolution from a $500 a night hotel in Dubai

he is a coward and a bully

when he was granted new bail conditions to visit the Chinse olympics, he promised to return after they closed

he did not, he was in contempt of court and officially on the run

the authorities gave him enough rope to hang himself and he did

no matter about his whining about that he could not return as he was not getting justice from the current administration

thats just a cop out

he was guilty as charged, he knew it and did not want to answer for his crimes and skipped bail

just as many other criminals all over the world do every day

why is he basically any different to them?

he was just stupid enough to leave a paper trail a mile wide proving his guilt and to have left a vast sum of money behind that he now wants to reclaim.

i would bet if they gave him the money on the basis that he would dissapear back into the hole he crawled out of, we would never see him again

theres no man of principle here, he has no idea how to turn things around for Thailand

its all BS rhetoric, far greater minds than his all over the world have been running the numbers for the other countries trying to turn it around, do you see anyone, anywhere, any country thriving and brushing off the effects of the global downturn?

no, and you won't see it here with Thickskin either.

he has lost millions on poorly made and researched investments, it would be like giving the reigns of Thailand to Bernie Madoff

all style and no substance......

as to this petition, regardless of your shirt colour, you should recognise that its disrespectful to the monarchy of the past and to the present.

the instigators should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves for starting it

A very good comment!!!

[Jingthing]

as to this petition, regardless of your shirt colour, you should recognise that its disrespectful to the monarchy of the past and to the present.

the instigators should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves for starting it

They have no shame.

They have no respect.

All they have is the threat of BLOODSHED. Don't play into their games.

they have fallen into a hate spiral,

A reality spiral more like it. You can't reason with the insane. Give them an arm and they will destroy this country. Chamberlain tried that with Hitler.

Edited August 2, 2009 by Jingthing

[Plus]

So five million people come up and declare - we are bleeding idiots, but there are a lot of us and we want something.

If I was in charge, I'd look at how much trouble these guys can really create and go from there - either/or ignore, reason, or rely on security apparatus to keep the riots under control.

As for the petition itself - it's a non-starter for a millions reasons mentioned already. The problem is dealing with the fallout.

>>>

Nation's editorial today was about their confrontational approach - that's not the right attitude when asking for forgiveness. They schedulled new rounds of anti-government rallies for next week, long before they hear the verdict on their petition. That's just not how you ask to arbitrate in any conflict. There will be reconciliation with this crowd.

[Insight]

Please come to my village and tell them they were paid to sign or the way they vote. I ll get the mop and clean up the mess that was you.

Yes we already know many of the reds are murderously violent. What else is new?

How much did the PAD pay for that reply.  Whats the going price of your sole.

I shared Jingthing's thoughts when reading the last sentence of your message. Most people I know distanced themselves from the PAD during the Airport takeover, but at one person has told be they'll go back should this petition be granted, although everybody agrees this will be highly unlikely.

Isn't it a little sad that the only front man the people up north can find to support their cause is somebody so divisive? Even casting aside his convictions, his international reputation remains thoroughly tarnished after Songkran.

This is not a battle of ideals as far as we can see. This is all about one man and his desire for power.

[Mario2008]

1 suspension has been issued for bringing the Monarchy into the discussion. Hope others will get the drift.

[Jingthing]

Please come to my village and tell them they were paid to sign or the way they vote. I ll get the mop and clean up the mess that was you.

Yes we already know many of the reds are murderously violent. What else is new?

How much did the PAD pay for that reply.  Whats the going price of your sole.

I know you are being silly, but I am not pro Pad. Just anti-Thaksin. I know simple minded people think the world is black and white, red and yellow, but it ain't so. One man has an ego so big he is willing to destroy his country for it. Don't let him. Learn from history.

Edited August 2, 2009 by Jingthing

[Hanzkneez]

See what I mean - Nothing.

Because that is what your illegal petition is worth: NOTHING.

Why would a legit government give a criminal fugitive insurgent violent revolutionary ANYTHING except prison time? Fugitives don't have bargaining power.

I have managed to get a copy of the petition with the signatures on I will attach below.

[rixalex]

fervent, how many times do you need to be told by posters here, regardless of anyones political affiliations, the petition and is relevance is moot, it does not qualify for submission under the current rules

you can waste more time, more money and seek more sensational headlines by sending it to the high court for an informed and legal desicion but the answer will be the same

neither the beneficiary or the petition is legal or acceptable to be allowed to continue along its path

wether you, the redheads or i disagree about that, it makes no real difference

the law is the law, the pardon system is a well trodden path and political pressure nor threats of violence can change the laws of qualification

apart from that, why would anyone, let alone the great man himself, make an exception for someone who ran away from justice and abused his power to steal money from the same people he now claims to love.

what he is spending every day whilst on the run, would feed a village for a month

if he was a man he would come back to face his accusers, not try to start a revolution from a $500 a night hotel in Dubai

he is a coward and a bully

when he was granted new bail conditions to visit the Chinse olympics, he promised to return after they closed

he did not, he was in contempt of court and officially on the run

the authorities gave him enough rope to hang himself and he did

no matter about his whining about that he could not return as he was not getting justice from the current administration

thats just a cop out

he was guilty as charged, he knew it and did not want to answer for his crimes and skipped bail

just as many other criminals all over the world do every day

why is he basically any different to them?

he was just stupid enough to leave a paper trail a mile wide proving his guilt and to have left a vast sum of money behind that he now wants to reclaim.

i would bet if they gave him the money on the basis that he would dissapear back into the hole he crawled out of, we would never see him again

theres no man of principle here, he has no idea how to turn things around for Thailand

its all BS rhetoric, far greater minds than his all over the world have been running the numbers for the other countries trying to turn it around, do you see anyone, anywhere, any country thriving and brushing off the effects of the global downturn?

no, and you won't see it here with Thickskin either.

he has lost millions on poorly made and researched investments, it would be like giving the reigns of Thailand to Bernie Madoff

all style and no substance......

as to this petition, regardless of your shirt colour, you should recognise that its disrespectful to the monarchy of the past and to the present.

the instigators should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves for starting it

Spot on timekeeper.

[hkt83100]

Hope others will get the drift.

Thank you Mario. The next target should be those "Full-text-quoters"...

[Denim]

This "general" should be court marshalled a.s.a.p.

Yes, along with any generals that were involved in the last coup and just for good measure, general Suchinda. People may not like it but if General Anupong is pushed aside by any ' young turks ' coming up, then that will be the end of it . Thaksin will be back for sure and foreigners can make 10 million posts on the internet and it won't make one iota of difference to anything happening in the real world. This is something the Thais are going to have to work out for themselves so the most articulate cyber warriers will have to be content with reading about it on the internet.

[blackman]

Come on guys.......do it.......Think of a positive, constructive, politically feasible and do-able reponse to Five million, three hundred thousand citizen supplicants...........positive, constructive....if you dont understand such strange terminology, use MC2's posts as an example!.......... Just do it. Surpise the hel_l out of me......Do you have a capacity for positive, constructive suggestions about "Petition Responses"........I dont think you do...prove me wrong....Reach you guys, reach beyond yourself...........get out-of-the-box that the media has put you in!

ok, get a lawyer, take the petition to the highest court in the land

ask for a legal ruling on its validity

abide by their desicion

is it possible for the reds to do that?

Dear poster Ferwert

i see someone rose to your challenge

what is your response?

[animatic]

Come on guys.......do it.......Think of a positive, constructive, politically feasible and do-able reponse to Five million, three hundred thousand citizen supplicants...........positive, constructive....if you dont understand such strange terminology, use MC2's posts as an example!.......... Just do it. Surpise the hel_l out of me......Do you have a capacity for positive, constructive suggestions about "Petition Responses"........I dont think you do...prove me wrong....Reach you guys, reach beyond yourself...........get out-of-the-box that the media has put you in!

Well constructive would be to ignore an illegal and irrelevant petition that is essentially LM to HRM,

and get on with helping the country recover from thie international banking crisis.

5 million people is just a number being thrown about.

It is not verified and as such is not of any value.

It also has nowhere to go since it has no basis to be accepted in any royal bureau.

It is political smoke and mirrors no matter how many signed in good faith.

It is not a referendum, it is only a alleged group of similar thinkers,

working for the SOLE aim of brining one rich guy back from SELF imposed exile.

An why not drop the mis-applied word "Agenized"... have you not seen the several times

I have posted this word meaning; 'Bleaching flour white with chemicals' ...specifically : nitrogen trichloride?

Yet you still insist on showing a lack of basic comprehension of the word you use repeatedly.

a⋅ge⋅nize

  /ˈeɪdʒəˌnaɪz/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ey-juh-nahyz] Show IPA

Use agenized in a Sentence

–verb (used with object), -nized, -niz⋅ing.

to bleach (flour) with nitrogen trichloride.

Also, especially British, a⋅ge⋅nise.

Origin:

1945–50; agene U.S. trade name for nitrogen trichloride + -ize

Dictionary.com Unabridged

Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2009.

If you want to sway minds and influence intelligent people,

use words that actually make sense.

[animatic]

The current government is certainly not pro-democracy in any way, shape or form. They are also stunningly incompetent, xenophobic and, if not corrupt themselves, are politically in bed with one of the most corrupt Thai politicians around (Newin).

Of course, this description could fit any Thai government for the past several years, including the Thaksin regime.

Some people look at the shortcomings of the current government and long for a return to the Thaksin 'Golden Age'. However. the global economy has changed and instead of working with a growing economy, he would have to deal with a shrinking or static economy. While his social and economic programs were usually based on excellent ideas (national health care, local mini-loans, etc.) the implementation was usually flawed and riddled with corruption. Consequently, the long term success of these programs was questionable.

He may come back to power or he may not. IMHO this depends on the lifespans of two men. If they pass on or become incapacitated, He will probably be able to waltz back into the country, start a short & bloody civil war and either be kicked out for good or become the new PM (probably for life). I think the next year will be crucial. He will either be back with (literally) a vengeance or will be a spent force that just fades away and is forgotten.

Sums it up well.

[ratcatcher]

I understand we dont discuss royalty here.

Ferwert, is that really your best shot at one of the most reasonable responses to your challenge?

BTW "mediative" and "agenized" are "non-words"

Perhaps try "mediated" and "on the agenda"?

Being such a well educated Thai (non-farang) you simply have exhibited the best English here so far, pity to spoil it with such simple errors.

[animatic]

Please come to my village and tell them they were paid to sign or the way they vote. I ll get the mop and clean up the mess that was you.

Yes we already know many of the reds are murderously violent. What else is new?

How much did the PAD pay for that reply. Whats the going price of your sole.

Lemon Sole is about 80 baht a kilo these days.

His SOUL is intact, and is priceless,

not having done more than spoken his mind, he has little to worry about.

[animatic]

Why are you almost the only one with positive and constructive suggestions as to how to respond to this 5.4M citizen supplication.

they have fallen into a hate spiral, ferwert. its robbed them of creativity and problem solving ability.

they have turned into mindless brainwashed zombies... a quivering lower lip with a bead of saliva dripping down... bloodshot eyes, a slow gait and arms outstreached... "must get thaksin.... must get thaksin".

If you mean by being creative : accepting the unacceptable, and the inherent risks to Thailand by doing so,

for the sake of short term stability; the answer is creativity is not applicable.

Hate or extreme trepidation at Thaksin's return to power and subsequent actions,

are two utterly different things and motivations.

Wonderful imagery you create MC2, you should do comic books,

but it is apropos of nothing, besides attempts to belittle those with opposing views on national safety.

Letting an unstable, vengeful, avaricious, proto-despot back at the national helm, is a safety issue,

not a reconciliation issue.

Edited August 2, 2009 by animatic

[Samuian]

....for his remark he should be court marshalled for treason!

turning things as his cousin does, creates the divide,

there is no divide, they wish there would be one!

Day by day, he, through is actions unveils his real intentions:

"all or nothing"!

Can anyone imagine how this nutter will turn revengeful if he ever gets it his way..?

He doesn't stop at anything now, what should stop him (if ever) being back into power?

I don't understand how anyone can support this mega-egomaniac or see any good

in his support movement of the red-short punks?

Unless someone supports cronyism, nepotism, corruption and dictatorship....and the rule of the fist.

And using "the people" for their dirty tricks, "my people, if they want me.... "

well this is the wedge he tries to drive, between him and his opponents, well I am speechless!

Edited August 2, 2009 by Samuian

[animatic]

1 suspension has been issued for bringing the Monarchy into the discussion. Hope others will get the drift.

I only NOW, note time, saw this...

if you feel I have crossed a line PRIOR to this time,

please erase, I can not, it was not intentional.

[animatic]

Still nothing....the silence is deafening........The notion of composing a thoughtful, positive, politically do-able reponse to 5,4 million citizen supplicants seems just too much to expect...whatever made me think otherwise...silly me!

There is not further needed response because, in spite of the numbers,

it has no more validity than a Suan Dunsit poll of 4,000 Thai households.

And likely due to it's unverified nature, a much greater margin of error.

It is not an referendum, it is nothing more than a private Thaksin popularity poll.

Taken by people in love with an idealized version of one man and his history.

We knew he had some popularity, that doesn't make this a useful document to posses.

It has no where to go.

If it IS submitted to the only relevant office's it opens the organizers and every signer for LM charges.

If it isn't submitted, it is nothing but a publicity stunt. And there is nothing too creative or reconciling

about a publicity stunt that does nothing but further divide the country.

[Shah Jahan]

Wonderful imagery you create MC2, you should do comic books,

but it is apropos of nothing, besides attempts to belittle those with opposing views on national safety.

Letting an unstable, vengeful, avaricious, proto-despot back at the national helm, is a safety issue,

not a reconciliation issue.

I have a feeling that MC2 is on Thaksins paid PR staff to seed and infiltrate web discussions and forums. They found the only guy they knew who spoke good english and assigned him to thaivisa. why else would good thai person belittle himself by engaging in 2 way discussions with "buffaloe falang renting issan hooker? " cause thats what we all are right?

It would be the only reason he could be advocating the removal of human rights from over 50 million thai people and advocating the return of a bloody tyrant who is obviously intent on ............ ... ....

if the 5 million thai people who apparently signed this document (could have been 500k for all we know - you know how this neighborhood does with facts and figures) actually fully understood and comprehended what....Mr Thaksin fully intends.... then they would be very VERY shamed.... to say the least.

Edited August 2, 2009 by Shah Jahan

[Tommy2cents]

Indeed, divisiveness will result in the partitioning of the kingdom. Perhaps in divisiveness the people will find unity? We'll only know for sure after the crackdown on condolences . . .

[khonkaen man]

RED SHIRTS

Ex-supremo threatens use of force if pardon blocked

By THE NATION ON SUNDAY

Published on August 2, 2009

Chaiyasit: Wedge driven between King and people

Former supreme commander General Chaiyasit Shinawatra yesterday threatened opponents of ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra not to block the move to seek a Royal pardon for his cousin otherwise there could be use of force...

What a despicable threat to make. The only sufferers will be the poor from the North and the poor conscripts in the Army, many of whom will surely die. If the two sides do not negotiate there is going to be a lot of blood spilt. Yes u do negotiate with terrorists, The British government did it over Northern Ireland.

What has made the elite wealthy will be there eventual download...self interest. The army is already splintered with wealthy people paying generals to look after their interests.

Any Civil unrest will be short and bloody..and there will only be one winner. Check your history books

[animatic]

True to form of under 24 hours here...

can a computer do this unattended.. seems possible,

Fuzzy Logic is being observed.

[RKASA]

"It is not an referendum, it is nothing more than a private Thaksin popularity poll"

So was the election and constitution that the army dumped in a coup.  

Go on and charge them all with LM.  Why wait, do it now.  They don't care.

Lawyers have nothing to do with it anymore.

Wake up and smell the coffee dude.

[Shah Jahan]

Indeed, divisiveness will result in the partitioning of the kingdom. Perhaps in divisiveness the people will find unity? We'll only know for sure after the crackdown on condolences . . .

Is that a poem?

it is nice

[givenall]

time to call elections or cut a deal with Thaksin

i dont see reconcilliation happening any other way.

mc2, can you please chage your picture. I am tring to forget what he is or look like

[animatic]

"It is not an referendum, it is nothing more than a private Thaksin popularity poll"

So was the election and constitution that the army dumped in a coup.

Go on and charge them all with LM. Why wait, do it now. They don't care.

Lawyers have nothing to do with it anymore.

Wake up and smell the coffee dude.

Yes the dumped the constitution,

but then the people voted in a new one.

Yes they dumped Thaksin, but only as Care Taker Prime Minister

Thaksin himself threw out the 2005 election.

TRT and other parties cheated so bad in the 2006 election that it was thrown out.,

and the election commission jailed for malfeasance in office.

Maybe charging the with LM won't make it to court, and they don't care, correct.

But it WOULD cause a great change in 'the court of public opinion'.

"Oh, the reds got me to sign, I never knew I could be insulting HRM'.

might go a typical response.

The country has a constitution now voted on by the populace.

The country has a functioning government

PM Chalerm will NOT improve things.

If Thaksin wants to start a civil war to get his money back,

that is unlikely to bring the country down, as shown at Songkran,

but will end his red adventures once and for all.

It's amazing what a large pile of money up for grabs will do to a man's common sense.

Edited August 2, 2009 by animatic

[RKASA]

and TRT and other parties cheated so bad in the 2006 election that it was thrown out.,

and the election commission jailed foir malfeasance in office.

Please refresh my memory was that before or after the coup?

True ? I forget.

[webfact]

Govt to verify signatures for Thaksin-pardon petition: PM

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said Sunday that the government will verify the signatures attached to the red-shirt movement's petition to seek a royal pardon for former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Abhisit said when the red-shirt movement submits the petition to the Office of His Majesty's Principal Private Secretary, the office will seek an opinion of the government.

The government will verify the signatures to see whether they lists are not forged and the signatories really want to petition His Majesty for Thaksin's pardon, Abhisit said.

He said if there are irregularities, the ones who submit the lists must be held responsible.

The prime minister did not say how the government would verify the some 4 million names as the red-shirt movement had earlier announced it gathered over 4 million signatures.

-- The Nation 2009/08/02

[Gonzo the Face]

From a general who has taken an oath to his country and king, this sounds like treasonlus talk to me.

If it is, court marshall him and if found guilty carry out the sentence. Maybe ala Saadam.

Just a strange thought.

We have redshirt posters Barrybankroud, Ferwert and Mc2.

Now Thaksin is know to be the Square faced man.

and then there is Mic Square,,,,, fess up now mic square are you really Mr. T trying to hide behind your nic???