The Third Sex

[Samuian]

Beside some displaying their pride about straight sex gender - 3rd gender,

gay, lesbian, cross dressers are human too - just a reminder!

"happy family, one hand clap!"

Edited August 10, 2009 by Samuian

[neverdie]

I've always wondered why so many straight western men have such a fascination for ladyboys and why the assumption that this is prevalent in Thailand or that somehow Thailand is odd for having it?

India has a well known 3rd gender, the Hijras, the Lakota Sioux and Blackfoot native Americans, Polynesia, etc etc. all had third genders. The list is long and rather varied and extends back to Mesopotamia, the Incas and more

There may be alot of men with a fascination for ladyboys, I don't know, perhaps JT could run one of his famous poll's, maybe he already has?

Whilst you mention India has alot of third gender, you fail to mention Brazil & this of course is one of the most renowned things that is mention about Thailand in the west.

What I find most amazing about the topic of ladyboys, is the amount of experienced thai visa posters of the gay sect that always like to make funny little quirky posts about ladyboys and gay men etc etc, I don't need to quote or point them out because theres half a dozen of them already in this one and half page thread. Most of the comments don't even have anything to do with the topic at hand . It never ceases to amaze me some of the big chips that are carried around on such little shoulders.

To expand on the OP's original post about why are there so many ladyboys in Thailand, I would of thought that genetics must have been at least 95% in play here. There also seems to be a large amount of very femine males and just as many 'Toms', that is ladies that do everything within their power to be men. It always fascinates me to see many very unattractive Tom's with absolutely stunning girlfriends ....it probably balances itself out in the end, who knows

[zorro1]

Anybody posting here would have at least a minor curiosity re lady boy. Thats why I would never post here

[neverdie]

Anybody posting here would have at least a minor curiosity re lady boy. Thats why I would never post here

, u tool

[endure]

I've always wondered why so many straight western men have such a fascination for ladyboys and why the assumption that this is prevalent in Thailand or that somehow Thailand is odd for having it?

India has a well known 3rd gender, the Hijras, the Lakota Sioux and Blackfoot native Americans, Polynesia, etc etc. all had third genders. The list is long and rather varied and extends back to Mesopotamia, the Incas and more

There may be alot of men with a fascination for ladyboys, I don't know, perhaps JT could run one of his famous poll's, maybe he already has?

Whilst you mention India has alot of third gender, you fail to mention Brazil & this of course is one of the most renowned things that is mention about Thailand in the west.

What I find most amazing about the topic of ladyboys, is the amount of experienced thai visa posters of the gay sect that always like to make funny little quirky posts about ladyboys and gay men etc etc, I don't need to quote or point them out because theres half a dozen of them already in this one and half page thread. Most of the comments don't even have anything to do with the topic at hand . It never ceases to amaze me some of the big chips that are carried around on such little shoulders.

The reason that you see lots of 'funny little quirky posts' from the gay crowd is that the majority of straight men don't seem to be able to understand that ladyboys aren't attractive to gay men and we get a teensy bit tired of having to explain that the gay forum is not the place to ask if you want ladyboy info.

[DP25]

I've always wondered why so many straight western men have such a fascination for ladyboys and why the assumption that this is prevalent in Thailand or that somehow Thailand is odd for having it?

India has a well known 3rd gender, the Hijras, the Lakota Sioux and Blackfoot native Americans, Polynesia, etc etc. all had third genders. The list is long and rather varied and extends back to Mesopotamia, the Incas and more

Other cultures may have it, but I don't think anywhere on earth has it near to the extent that Thailand does. Where else can you go to KFC and have a ladyboy take your order and you don't even bat an eye? This tolerance and general acceptance of this is a very admirable thing.

[G54]

Generally Western Christian upbringing is for heterosexual people and couples. Gays or whatever you want to call them, including Ladyboys are frowned upon. That does not make us uptight or bad people.

Not so many years ago Buggery was treated with harsh penalties in the west and in the Royal Navy you could be flogged and hung for such acts.

Maybe we are more enlightened these days, that is a matter of opinion.

[neverdie]

I've always wondered why so many straight western men have such a fascination for ladyboys and why the assumption that this is prevalent in Thailand or that somehow Thailand is odd for having it?

India has a well known 3rd gender, the Hijras, the Lakota Sioux and Blackfoot native Americans, Polynesia, etc etc. all had third genders. The list is long and rather varied and extends back to Mesopotamia, the Incas and more

There may be alot of men with a fascination for ladyboys, I don't know, perhaps JT could run one of his famous poll's, maybe he already has?

Whilst you mention India has alot of third gender, you fail to mention Brazil & this of course is one of the most renowned things that is mention about Thailand in the west.

What I find most amazing about the topic of ladyboys, is the amount of experienced thai visa posters of the gay sect that always like to make funny little quirky posts about ladyboys and gay men etc etc, I don't need to quote or point them out because theres half a dozen of them already in this one and half page thread. Most of the comments don't even have anything to do with the topic at hand . It never ceases to amaze me some of the big chips that are carried around on such little shoulders.

The reason that you see lots of 'funny little quirky posts' from the gay crowd is that the majority of straight men don't seem to be able to understand that ladyboys aren't attractive to gay men and we get a teensy bit tired of having to explain that the gay forum is not the place to ask if you want ladyboy info.

Endure,

A couple of things, firstly I can understand your frustration, but I don't have to live it, I have another group of frustrations I endure.

Next, depending on where you walk and what country you are from, you will find the gay community and the transgendered community sharing alot of facilities etc. Alot of people feel , Gay, Lesbian, Transexual, Cross (nearly wrote crossy...lol) dressing etc are similar in nature (trying to pick the right words), although they couldnt be further from the truth in most of those instances.

It never actually dawned on my that gay men would like ladyboys, I would have thought that gay men like men, then I guess you get gay men that like hairy truck drivers with pot bellies or some like little fresh faced freshman type guys, or asian guys THE LIST GOES ON AND ON, so perhaps there are some guys that like feminine type people, be it ur queeny type gay guy or a ladyboy. I doubt it can all be defined very neatly.

I'm agreeing with what you have to say, but perhaps there should be a sub forum within the subforum where the ladyboy stuff could get stacked, because as sure as shit, its gonna keep popping up.

I also have pet hates about the crap on some issues you read in this forum, but its alot easier to ignore some ignorant tools because no matter how much you try to educate them they continue running around stating false facts etc.

Anyway, I initially got this out of general (i think) and had no idea that people were putting this stuff in the gay mans forum, i guess it just needs to be redirected somewhere.

Some time ago George was talking about some improvements coming to thai visa and there were heaps of good suggestions about this sort of thing and when people are creating new threads there should be more prompts regarding whether searches have been conducted or perhaps when something is created for the gay forum, a prompt could ask whether its transgendered thread etc.

[redscouse]

I researched this once and discovered why there are so many ladyboys and effeminate asian men, and the surprising reason is soya milk. as children they are given soya milk to drink, whilst in the west we are not. studies have show soya milk carries high levels of oestrogen and drinking too much during formative years affects your hormonal balance, in fact japanese women prefer this to HRT during the menopause.

Feel free to mock, however the information is readily available on the internet

[MarkBKK]

I researched this once and discovered why there are so many ladyboys and effeminate asian men, and the surprising reason is soya milk. as children they are given soya milk to drink, whilst in the west we are not. studies have show soya milk carries high levels of oestrogen and drinking too much during formative years affects your hormonal balance, in fact japanese women prefer this to HRT during the menopause.

Feel free to mock, however the information is readily available on the internet

I could mock, but choose not to. (But it does make me wonder about some of the sights I've witnessed in the US, the UK, Italy, Germany, Spain, Portugal, etc ... and probably a few other places where soya milk is less popular, although that would really explain the new-half clubs of olde Tokyo.)

However, since this is a topic that has been debated (pointlessly and pruriently on BBSs and forums) for many years, can we get back to the real point of this thread, and I think what the OP was trying to get at, which is: Marmite or Vegemite, which is better?

[JUDAS]

What forum is best? We try to include GLBT issues here, but almost all ladyboy or 3rd gender discussions seem to revolve around the minority of LB's who rent their organs to straight men. Sports? Bikes in Thailand? Politics? Pets?

What is/are GLBT? Can't get it out of my head since I read this an hour ago that it's a Subway sandwich.

[mahtin]

google=friend

[MarkBKK]

What forum is best? We try to include GLBT issues here, but almost all ladyboy or 3rd gender discussions seem to revolve around the minority of LB's who rent their organs to straight men. Sports? Bikes in Thailand? Politics? Pets?

What is/are GLBT? Can't get it out of my head since I read this an hour ago that it's a Subway sandwich.

Google is your friend ... 4,420,000 hits and counting.

[bugger, Mahtin beat me to it. And let's face it, he was more helpful.]

Edited August 10, 2009 by MarkBKK

[MarkBKK]

Well Im not the worlds most masculine man

But I know what I am and Im glad Im a man

And so is lola

I'm fond of the slightly updated version ...

Drive boy dog boy dirty numb angel boy

In the doorway boy she was a lipstick boy

She was a beautiful boy and tears boy

And all in your innerspace boy you had

Hands girl boy and steel boy you had

Chemicals boy I've grown so close to you

Boy and you just groan boy she said

Comeover comeover she smiled at you boy.

Er ... derail.

[tombkk]

Generally Western Christian upbringing is for heterosexual people and couples. Gays or whatever you want to call them, including Ladyboys are frowned upon. That does not make us uptight or bad people.

Well it does make you uptight and bad people. Sorry to break it to you, pal.

[zorro1]

Anybody posting here would have at least a minor curiosity re lady boy. Thats why I would never post here

, u tool

A tool without tits unless little man boobs qualify

[tombkk]

I've always wondered why so many straight western men have such a fascination for ladyboys and why the assumption that this is prevalent in Thailand or that somehow Thailand is odd for having it?

India has a well known 3rd gender, the Hijras, the Lakota Sioux and Blackfoot native Americans, Polynesia, etc etc. all had third genders. The list is long and rather varied and extends back to Mesopotamia, the Incas and more

There may be alot of men with a fascination for ladyboys, I don't know, perhaps JT could run one of his famous poll's, maybe he already has?

Whilst you mention India has alot of third gender, you fail to mention Brazil & this of course is one of the most renowned things that is mention about Thailand in the west.

What I find most amazing about the topic of ladyboys, is the amount of experienced thai visa posters of the gay sect that always like to make funny little quirky posts about ladyboys and gay men etc etc, I don't need to quote or point them out because theres half a dozen of them already in this one and half page thread. Most of the comments don't even have anything to do with the topic at hand . It never ceases to amaze me some of the big chips that are carried around on such little shoulders.

The reason that you see lots of 'funny little quirky posts' from the gay crowd is that the majority of straight men don't seem to be able to understand that ladyboys aren't attractive to gay men and we get a teensy bit tired of having to explain that the gay forum is not the place to ask if you want ladyboy info.

I went to gay go-go bars with a straight friend. He commented that he was surprised that he didn't see any ladyboys. I explained to him the the commercial ladyboys are for straight guys. Well, guys that like to call themselves straight but have an issue. Let's not go into this...

[tombkk]

Moved to General.

Hope so. It doesn't belong in the gay forum, IMHO.

[tombkk]

What forum is best? We try to include GLBT issues here, but almost all ladyboy or 3rd gender discussions seem to revolve around the minority of LB's who rent their organs to straight men. Sports? Bikes in Thailand? Politics? Pets?

This is not a GLBT issue. It's a straight issue with ladyboys, and relegating it to the forum which hardly ever a straight guy reads, will lead to nowhere. Cultural issues, tolerance, would be more appropriate than a gay forum. IMHO, of course.

[tombkk]

There are so many ladyboys in Thailand, because and foremost of the conservative educational system re moral issues here, and secondary of the monetary circumstances, meaning, to work with foreigners in the night scene.

You should probably try explaining that to the hundreds of thousands of Ladyboys in Thailand, especially the majority of them who do NOT work with foreigners in the night scene.

My goodness, just when I thought I had heard it all. Genetics doesnt even get a mention with you.

Anyway, there have been some excellent topics here on Thai visa about this very subject, as well as some quoted 'Factual' research. I won't go into any of it because last time I did one bright poster here accused me of having 'Gender Issues', which is a fairly funny thing to say to a full red blooded Aussie such as myself .

Actually, while controversial, this is the discussion that will help. I do have friends that are transgender and who are not "in the trade", and this seems to be more accepted by Thai people than by farangs. Bumping the discussion into the gay corner, which hardly any straight farang will ever visit, will not help the farangs develop any understanding.

[tombkk]

Sigh. Here we go again: cue closet ladyboy fanciers who want to talk about 'gay men' liking ladyboys. cue me reminding them that the ladyboy bars are in the straight entertainment districts. Repeat ad infinitum.

Yes, as long as we are talking about the commercial ones.

[endure]

I've always wondered why so many straight western men have such a fascination for ladyboys and why the assumption that this is prevalent in Thailand or that somehow Thailand is odd for having it?

India has a well known 3rd gender, the Hijras, the Lakota Sioux and Blackfoot native Americans, Polynesia, etc etc. all had third genders. The list is long and rather varied and extends back to Mesopotamia, the Incas and more

There may be alot of men with a fascination for ladyboys, I don't know, perhaps JT could run one of his famous poll's, maybe he already has?

Whilst you mention India has alot of third gender, you fail to mention Brazil & this of course is one of the most renowned things that is mention about Thailand in the west.

What I find most amazing about the topic of ladyboys, is the amount of experienced thai visa posters of the gay sect that always like to make funny little quirky posts about ladyboys and gay men etc etc, I don't need to quote or point them out because theres half a dozen of them already in this one and half page thread. Most of the comments don't even have anything to do with the topic at hand . It never ceases to amaze me some of the big chips that are carried around on such little shoulders.

The reason that you see lots of 'funny little quirky posts' from the gay crowd is that the majority of straight men don't seem to be able to understand that ladyboys aren't attractive to gay men and we get a teensy bit tired of having to explain that the gay forum is not the place to ask if you want ladyboy info.

Endure,

A couple of things, firstly I can understand your frustration, but I don't have to live it, I have another group of frustrations I endure.

Next, depending on where you walk and what country you are from, you will find the gay community and the transgendered community sharing alot of facilities etc. Alot of people feel , Gay, Lesbian, Transexual, Cross (nearly wrote crossy...lol) dressing etc are similar in nature (trying to pick the right words), although they couldnt be further from the truth in most of those instances.

It never actually dawned on my that gay men would like ladyboys, I would have thought that gay men like men, then I guess you get gay men that like hairy truck drivers with pot bellies or some like little fresh faced freshman type guys, or asian guys THE LIST GOES ON AND ON, so perhaps there are some guys that like feminine type people, be it ur queeny type gay guy or a ladyboy. I doubt it can all be defined very neatly.

I'm agreeing with what you have to say, but perhaps there should be a sub forum within the subforum where the ladyboy stuff could get stacked, because as sure as shit, its gonna keep popping up.

I also have pet hates about the crap on some issues you read in this forum, but its alot easier to ignore some ignorant tools because no matter how much you try to educate them they continue running around stating false facts etc.

Anyway, I initially got this out of general (i think) and had no idea that people were putting this stuff in the gay mans forum, i guess it just needs to be redirected somewhere.

This thread actually started out in the General forum then was moved to the Gay forum then back to General again.

I agree that thought should be given to setting up a sub-forum for ladyboy enquiries but I'm not sure that putting it in the gay forum is sensible as it's not a place where there's much ladyboy expertise available.

Asking about ladyboys in a gay forum is a bit like popping into the local synagogue and asking the Rabbi to extol the virtues of bacon sandwiches.

Googling 'ladyboy forum' does produce a number of results that might be better than Thaivisa for those who want to look.

[sokal]

I've always wondered why so many straight western men have such a fascination for ladyboys and why the assumption that this is prevalent in Thailand or that somehow Thailand is odd for having it?

India has a well known 3rd gender, the Hijras, the Lakota Sioux and Blackfoot native Americans, Polynesia, etc etc. all had third genders. The list is long and rather varied and extends back to Mesopotamia, the Incas and more

There may be alot of men with a fascination for ladyboys, I don't know, perhaps JT could run one of his famous poll's, maybe he already has?

Whilst you mention India has alot of third gender, you fail to mention Brazil & this of course is one of the most renowned things that is mention about Thailand in the west.

What I find most amazing about the topic of ladyboys, is the amount of experienced thai visa posters of the gay sect that always like to make funny little quirky posts about ladyboys and gay men etc etc, I don't need to quote or point them out because theres half a dozen of them already in this one and half page thread. Most of the comments don't even have anything to do with the topic at hand . It never ceases to amaze me some of the big chips that are carried around on such little shoulders.

To expand on the OP's original post about why are there so many ladyboys in Thailand, I would of thought that genetics must have been at least 95% in play here. There also seems to be a large amount of very femine males and just as many 'Toms', that is ladies that do everything within their power to be men. It always fascinates me to see many very unattractive Tom's with absolutely stunning girlfriends ....it probably balances itself out in the end, who knows

The reason allot of posters have a facination with LBs is because the LBs that we are exposed to are usually very attractive.

[Roadman]

"The ladyboy cabarets of Thailand are a leading tourist attraction but the glamorous and attractive men, who are now women, are a modern expression of an archaic attraction. The kathoey, the Thai term for ladyboys, have long been part of the cultural landscape of Thailand. Many communities acccept a "third sex", from Thailand and Samoa to American Indians and the Philippines. Only in the West has savage repression occurred. If the existence of a "third sex" is a universal property, is Western society so repressed by its cultural heritage that the Thais represent a norm in nature? Why are there so many kathoey in Thailand? Why are there so few in the Western world?"

Richard Totman

Would have to be, as you say, "have long been a part of the cultural landscape of Thailand". Most of the western countries are founded on a religious doctrine that taught hetrosexual behaviour as correct and the rest being 'queer' or strange. Wider acceptance of other sexs in western cultures have only been a recent change for better or for worse. The Thai's have had time on their side for acceptance.

In my own view what sets the Kathoey apart from the other cultures that I am surrounded by (the Polynesian tranny for example) is some of them are stunningly beautiful. Check out a Tiffany show and from a distance this pure hetrosexual is thinking "wow she's beautiful". A suprise to my slightly redneck outlook that I am thinking 'she' and 'beautiful' of a male. Add in the Thainess and it is a very attractive package and along with a long held cutural acceptance it is understandable why the Thai Kathoey florishs. Compare to say an average Polynesian tranny most weighing in at 100kg for a start then it becomes a no contest in the beauty and appeal stakes. The average Kathoey wins hands down.

[Harcourt]

I researched this once and discovered why there are so many ladyboys and effeminate asian men, and the surprising reason is soya milk. as children they are given soya milk to drink, whilst in the west we are not. studies have show soya milk carries high levels of oestrogen and drinking too much during formative years affects your hormonal balance, in fact japanese women prefer this to HRT during the menopause.

Feel free to mock, however the information is readily available on the internet

I could mock, but choose not to. (But it does make me wonder about some of the sights I've witnessed in the US, the UK, Italy, Germany, Spain, Portugal, etc ... and probably a few other places where soya milk is less popular, although that would really explain the new-half clubs of olde Tokyo.)

However, since this is a topic that has been debated (pointlessly and pruriently on BBSs and forums) for many years, can we get back to the real point of this thread, and I think what the OP was trying to get at, which is: Marmite or Vegemite, which is better?

Assuming "Vegemite" and "Marmite" are not euphemisms for something..... it's got to be Vegemite.

But if they are euphemisms.....what are they euphemisms for?

[richard_smith237]

The reason allot of posters have a facination with LBs is because the LBs that we are exposed to are usually very attractive.

That works for me. When I see a stunning looking woman I will take a look. When I see a stunning looking woman then notice she is a ladyboy I I continue to notice their attractiveness and beauty.

I think that some of the ladyboys in Thailand are quite frankly stunning to look at and it amazes me that a man can turn himself into an image I find attractive.

Not a Closet fruit by the way - I just think that society has developed enough for people respectful of others and not to be intimidated by others who are different, so long as they are respectful of others too.

[MrHammer]

The reason allot of posters have a facination with LBs is because the LBs that we are exposed to are usually very attractive.

That works for me. When I see a stunning looking woman I will take a look. When I see a stunning looking woman then notice she is a ladyboy I I continue to notice their attractiveness and beauty.

I think that some of the ladyboys in Thailand are quite frankly stunning to look at and it amazes me that a man can turn himself into an image I find attractive.

Not a Closet fruit by the way - I just think that society has developed enough for people respectful of others and not to be intimidated by others who are different, so long as they are respectful of others too.

Personally I think ladyboys are ugly and cant see what the fuss is about. Weird distorted faces, wide shoulders and no hips plus a deep raspy voice, whats beatiful about such a freak of nature? Only newbs to Thailand obsessed with plastic tits seem to go for them. Not saying you are either!

[LaoPo]

Personally I think ladyboys are ugly and cant see what the fuss is about. Weird distorted faces, wide shoulders and no hips plus a deep raspy voice, whats beatiful about such a freak of nature? Only newbs to Thailand obsessed with plastic tits seem to go for them. Not saying you are either!

You're right...ladyboys are very ugly...

Members of Thai ladyboy band "Venus Flytrap"..(From L-R) Amy, Taya, Bobo, Nok and Gina are Thai ladyboys brought together by record company Sony BMG to create a girl group with a twist.

LaoPo

[Harcourt]

The reason allot of posters have a facination with LBs is because the LBs that we are exposed to are usually very attractive.

That works for me. When I see a stunning looking woman I will take a look. When I see a stunning looking woman then notice she is a ladyboy I I continue to notice their attractiveness and beauty.

I think that some of the ladyboys in Thailand are quite frankly stunning to look at and it amazes me that a man can turn himself into an image I find attractive.

Not a Closet fruit by the way - I just think that society has developed enough for people respectful of others and not to be intimidated by others who are different, so long as they are respectful of others too.

"Not a closet fruit"! It's funny how many "straight" men feel the need to point out their non-gayness when it comes to appreciating, defending, or simply discussing LB's. Once the lights are out, warm lips feel like warm lips, and I guess that if those lips are attached to a person who actually knows how your equipment works, it's all for the better, surely.

Just guessing, of course

Taking for granted that gay men are not attracted to LB's, is it "gay" or "gayish" to have an attraction for LB's? ( A bit oxymoronic, but I'm sure you get the gist)

The other side of the "gay men are not attracted to LB's" coin is, would a lesbian be attracted to a LB?

[junki3korean]

Personally I think ladyboys are ugly and cant see what the fuss is about. Weird distorted faces, wide shoulders and no hips plus a deep raspy voice, whats beatiful about such a freak of nature? Only newbs to Thailand obsessed with plastic tits seem to go for them. Not saying you are either!

You're right...ladyboys are very ugly...

Members of Thai ladyboy band "Venus Flytrap"..(From L-R) Amy, Taya, Bobo, Nok and Gina are Thai ladyboys brought together by record company Sony BMG to create a girl group with a twist.

LaoPo

I met Nong Poy twice once in Bangkok and once in Sydney at a LB contest very beautiful but when she talks......

Lb`s are nice people....though females dont like Lbs and Lbs dont like females....