Merchant Of Death To Learn Fate Today

[Grey11]

I joined Thai Visa appx. three years ago. One of the major reasons was to use it as yet another avenue to keep abreast of the news in Thailand, a country my wife was born in 55 years ago. Until then I had no idea of the strong hatred that (it seems) the vast majority of Europeans have for Americans. A few people I know have learned a little of that dislike on visits to England & France. As I learned the extent of that hatred reading the Thai Visa posts each day I have since tried to relay that to anybody I ran into in the U.S. (a huge country with many differences in different states and regions). Seldom in my life have I heard Americans criticise Europeans. So they have no idea the hatred Europeans have for them - even though most Europeans know no Americans nor have they visited the U.S. except in such places as New York or Calif. where most Americans would say do not represent the vast majority of Americans politically or morally. I have invited every American I know to join Thai Visa to see what Europeans think of them and then decide if they want to spend their money in Europe. Sure, Europe can do without American tourists just as the U.S. can do without European tourists. I now live permanently in Phuket but, through the internet, continue to try to inform Americans what they are thought of by Europeans. My father was wounded and almost killed fighting in Europe and tens of thousands of American soldiers were killed and wounded badly and suffered the rest of their lives fighting in that war in which they thought they were helping their allies. Many Americans were isolationists (and I wish the country was isolationist today) and tried to stay out of the war but FDR was ready when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. He had been arming the British for more than a year. Had I been Pres. and had my way, I would have stayed out of the war and quickly established trade relations with Germany as soon as it was over.

May I remind you that Churchill had to beg on his knees before the US SOLD him the weapons. The US SOLD the weapons NOT GIVE.

The aiplanes for instance where dismantled and secretly smugled into Canada, because FDR did not want to upset the Germans. I don't know your age, but the older Europeans welcomed the GI's and adored them, but this did not last long. But that's another story, I don't like to shatter your dreams too much.

And I guess you have no idea of the arrogance of your fellow countrymen when they are abroad. They think that the Yanks are god's gift to earth and act accordingly.

PS did you ever ask what your Canadian neighbours think of the US?

Alleman_

I lived thousands of miles south of Canada. The U.S. is a rather large country. Never saw are met a Canadian. Too hot for them down in Texas. Canada is pretty much a British colony anyway. And, you don't shatter any of my dream, I could give a S..t what any European thinks of me. Europeans have met many of the arrogant Americans from the Northeastern U.S. - quite different people from Texans and other Southerners. We fought a war against them and lost - most of them are of British extraction and are still haughty and arrogant just like their British cousins. I never visited Europe and never intend to visit. When people hate me, why spend my money in their country. I have been voting since 1968 and not one that I voted for President won. So what the U.S. Government does has nothing to do with me. We've got another great talker in there now who is controlled by the same elites that were around during WWII. FDR, like Eisenhower & Churchill hated the Germans and would do anything in their power to defeat and humiliate them & starved to death many in their camps and allowed the Communist Russians - FDR loved Stalin - to kill a few million Germans civilians.

I am 62. My dad almost died helping nations where the people hate Americans. He was disabled for life but was one of the lucky ones that came back after giving their lives for France & England. A worthless cause I see looking backward. Canada? Give me a break! What is it famous for? Hockey?

I have read many of your posts. And, someway you manage to get in a shot at the U.S. Just how powerful is your country? And can anybody actually find it on the map? I just hope I never run into you in Thailand. I don't normally argue politics b/c it only ends in name calling. And I try to judge people individually but have learned by reading Thai Visa that it is best to stay away from Europeans. And, I hope you choose to stay away from Americans. We will all be happier that way. Too much hate is good for no one.

[kolohe]

Epic move Thailand....way to cement your standing deep in lower 3rd World Status....as if allowing your domestic terrorists to close an International airport wasn't enough, now supporting major arms dealers that help to destroy your fellow 3rd world countries and their people...Amazing Thailand, what a joke!!!

What did you expect Thailand to do? Bow down and become another whipping boy for the US? The man had comitted no offence in Thailand or the USA. There is no evidence to say he is an arms dealer. Good on Thailand for standing against the trash they call the USA they have proved they are a better country than the US by far.

I keep seeing this here and it is amusing. On one hand someone complains that Viktor committed no crime and the whole thing is unjust and later congratulates Thailand for standing up to the US. So which is it? Was there in fact no crime committed and the Thai courts ruled in line with Thai law, or did he really commit a crime and the Thai courts disregarded Thai law in order to stand up to the US?

[IAMSOBAD]

I hope all the posters who love the merchant of death and wish for his release have some loved ones in the path of his destruction.

Maybe that will give you a clear vision of who your new hero is. Sometimes a tragedy will open your eyes.

He is more dangerous than a major storm or earthquake, but some of you ignorant people want him to go free to sell weapons. Would you want a rapist set free after he killed your sister? In the hatred that you show against Americans I am surprised that you are not out bombing US citizens instead of posting your hate on a Thai forum. I hate George Bush and I hate his born again politics...but I do not turn a discussion about a Russian bomb broker who kills people into a tirade about hate that must have been forced into your heads for years. If the man who rapes your sister is wanted by a government/police...do you want him set free because you hate the police? Please stop all the hatred. We are all farang and should stick together.

[tim73]

...I am 62. My dad almost died helping nations where the people hate Americans. He was disabled for life but was one of the lucky ones that came back after giving their lives for France & England. A worthless cause I see looking backward. Canada? Give me a break! What is it famous for? Hockey?...

Well, those Frenchies which died for American Independence might have thought the same way back in the late 18th century. "What a worthless cause to die for a punch for American peasants?!" Especially since Americans do like Brits more usually than Frenchies.

That is really weird, Brits were YOUR number one enemy for a long time but France helped you out many times. They even gave you the magnificent Statue of Liberty! A few years ago some Americans insulted them with "freedom fries". Where is your graditude?!

WWII is starting to be just another forgotten war for younger generations (GenY, Z..), those born in the 90's and younger ones do not usually give a sh*t about that war anymore. Just like nobody gives a sh*t about WWI now.

So are you going to demand eternal graditude because of your help in WWII from Europeans?

[henryalleman]

I joined Thai Visa appx. three years ago. One of the major reasons was to use it as yet another avenue to keep abreast of the news in Thailand, a country my wife was born in 55 years ago. Until then I had no idea of the strong hatred that (it seems) the vast majority of Europeans have for Americans. A few people I know have learned a little of that dislike on visits to England & France. As I learned the extent of that hatred reading the Thai Visa posts each day I have since tried to relay that to anybody I ran into in the U.S. (a huge country with many differences in different states and regions). Seldom in my life have I heard Americans criticise Europeans. So they have no idea the hatred Europeans have for them - even though most Europeans know no Americans nor have they visited the U.S. except in such places as New York or Calif. where most Americans would say do not represent the vast majority of Americans politically or morally. I have invited every American I know to join Thai Visa to see what Europeans think of them and then decide if they want to spend their money in Europe. Sure, Europe can do without American tourists just as the U.S. can do without European tourists. I now live permanently in Phuket but, through the internet, continue to try to inform Americans what they are thought of by Europeans. My father was wounded and almost killed fighting in Europe and tens of thousands of American soldiers were killed and wounded badly and suffered the rest of their lives fighting in that war in which they thought they were helping their allies. Many Americans were isolationists (and I wish the country was isolationist today) and tried to stay out of the war but FDR was ready when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. He had been arming the British for more than a year. Had I been Pres. and had my way, I would have stayed out of the war and quickly established trade relations with Germany as soon as it was over.

May I remind you that Churchill had to beg on his knees before the US SOLD him the weapons. The US SOLD the weapons NOT GIVE.

The aiplanairplanesnstance where dismantled and secretly smuglesmuggledCanada, because FDR did not want to upset the Germans. I don't know your age, but the older Europeans welcomed the GI's and adored them, but this did not last long. But that's another story, I don't like to shatter your dreams too much.

And I guess you have no idea of the arrogance of your fellow countrymen when they are abroad. They think that the Yanks are god's gift to earth and act accordingly.

PS did you ever ask what your Canadian neighbours think of the US?

Alleman_

I liAllemansands of miles south of Canada. The U.S. is a rather large country. Never saw are met a Canadian. Too hot for them down in Texas. Canada is pretty much a British colony anyway. And, you don't shatter any of my dream, I could give a S..t what any European thinks of me. Europeans have met many of the arrogant Americans from the Northeastern U.S. - quite different people from Texans and other Southerners. We fought a war against them and lost - most of them are of British extraction and are still haughty and arrogant just like their British cousins. I never visited Europe and never intend to visit. When people hate me, why spend my money in their country. I have been voting since 1968 and not one that I voted for President won. So what the U.S. Government does has nothing to do with me. We've got another great talker in there now who is controlled by the same elites that were around during WWII. FDR, like Eisenhower & Churchill hated the Germans and would do anything in their power to defeat and humiliate them & starved to death many in their camps and allowed the Communist Russians - FDR loved Stalin - to kill a few million Germans civilians.

I am 62. My dad almost died helping nations where the people hate Americans. He was disabled for life but was one of the lucky ones that came back after giving their lives for France & England. A worthless cause I see looking backward. Canada? Give me a break! What is it famous for? Hockey?

I have read many of your posts. And, someway you manage to get in a shot at the U.S. Just how powerful is your country? And can anybody actually find it on the map? I just hope I never run into you in Thailand. I don't normally argue politics b/c it only ends in name calling. And I try to judge people individually but have learned by reading Thai Visa that it is best to stay away from Europeans. And, I hope you choose to stay away from Americans. We will all be happier that way. Too much hate is good for no one.

All respect for your father, I respect ALL soldiers who fought on the battlefield. But the horrible thing is that in their mind the fought for their country and sadly enough this is seldom the truth. Soldiers fight against people they don't know, for the benefit of people who know their counterpart very well. In short the one who put his life in danger in the fireline is fuxxt by the people in power he fight for.

And this is in a certain way the same for Bout, he was used by the Kremlin to get rid of the army surplus and welcomed by the CIA and the Pentagon because he was usefull, and now he crossed the given guidlines, or he tried to outsmart the ones who benefited and used them for their own advantages, and now he must hang, because he knows too much. He was just a usefull tool, and now they don't need him anymore, because he was too much in the publicity the recent years, and in this business publicity is most unwanted. Does anyone belief that since his arrest even one bullit was sold less, hes already long time replaced by another one.

IMHO all this affaire is a big chess game, we are completely in the dark about what is happening and happened behind the curtain. But I'm convinced that the US don't ask his extradition on moral grounds, the political game is much too cynical and rutheless for that. Just to many people, organisations and countries would be too embarrresed when an open trial would take place.

Why do you think they kept Hess so long in prison and died and mysterious death, why Milosovicz died of an sudden hearth failure after he start to talk about some secret agreements. Compared with them Bout is a small fish.

Simply said politics is not about the people, but for protecting and serve the interrests of the real powers in the background. Who they are, everybody with a little bit intelligence and common sense know who they are.

Just MHO.

[IAMSOBAD]

Hey moderators...is the history of the world part one...two....three really on topic? I have read so many posts about wars that took place 300 years ago and about wars that took place 70 years ago, and still it goes on and on. Can you close this discussion and start the why I hate so and so forum. It would fit better as a title. POOR GEORGE...When he started this topic he said nothing in his OP about hatered of nations. He quoted THE NATION. Wasnt it about extradition of a man named and labeled THE MERCHANT OF DEATH by all news agencies worldwide.

[kolohe]

And I guess you have no idea of the arrogance of your fellow countrymen when they are abroad. They think that the Yanks are god's gift to earth and act accordingly.

PS did you ever ask what your Canadian neighbours think of the US?

Talk about calling the kettle black in regards to arrogance. Europeans are just as guilty of the arrogance they accuse the Americans of having. It's quite amusing really. "No YOU suck, WE are the best!"

IMHO its just the loud and obnoxious 10% with small penises that give the rest a bad name (on either side). The internet makes it look a lot worse than it is because of the eThug and eTough factor. The anonymity of the internet seems to bring out the Jerry Springer in people. In my experience, my intelligent European friends don't spend all their time bashing the US like you see here because they recognize their system is not perfect either. They would rather use their time to fix their own issues rather than divert attention from it with this chest thumping.

I am an American and I have traveled extensively around the world and I have never encountered the so called hate that is claimed here. There were times I was expecting to encounter it like when I had trips planned through some of the stereotypical bases for American hatred (France, etc) or when traveling to areas of the world that might have more reason for it (Middle East, Central Asia). Instead I was greeted with warmth and friendliness everywhere, even in France, and have made good friends that I still keep in touch with everywhere, even in places as far away as Kyrgyzstan. I don't believe I would have had so many good experiences and no real bad experiences if things were as bad as people like to make them out to be on the internet.

Henry, this isn't specifically aimed at you but I keep seeing this recurring theme of accusing everyone else of being arrogant. This is aimed to all those who think everyone else is arrogant but themselves:

If you seem to have problems with finding too many arrogant Americans where ever you go, maybe you should look in the mirror. Its more likely that you are just seeking out those that validate your close minded preconceptions or your its your own arrogance that is the problem. This applies to anyone, regardless of national origin.

To everyone: Don't let the vocal boneheads form your opinions about a nation or a people. The garbage they spew is typically brought on by ignorance and fear. A nation doesn't make an asshol_e, they will be an asshol_e no matter where they come from.

[brahmburgers]

If we talk about weapons in the US it is always said that weapons don't kill, but people do. And we have the right to bear..blah blah blah. But when talking about an alleged dealer, it is the weapons that kill.... something doesn't add up. But that is always the case if it suits them.

It's only an anal-retentive small % of the right wingers who use that tired old adage "guns don't kill, only people do." Most Americans are turned off to gun ownership.

And the 2nd amendment (of the US Constitution) has been shanghaied and misconstrued by the same folks. The 2nd amendment's "right to bear arms" was put in place because the colonies needed to grab as many rifle toting farmers as possible, to fight the Brits when they came back in 1812 to get their butts kicked a 2nd time.

What about "The Right To Arm Bears" ? Is it just our species we're talking about?

Thanks tv for such an entertaining morning! Just shows how bored I am.

Anyway some interesting sites of Victor's.

Victors Web Site

Some interesting reading here (the link on the site is broken)

Victors Airfreight Co

Always 2 sides to any story...

Indeed, interesting reading. It paints a picture of a respectable businessman. However, how easy is it to concoct a web site to convey whatever one wants to convey? Somehow I suspect that Uncle Sam has more than just a novelist's story as evidence to back up its claim that Bout is a serious arms dealer. US courts are quite fair. There have been more than a few times when some very unscrupulous characters have been set free because there wasn't enough compelling evidence to convict.

Case in point: An Egyptian who traveled to cities in western US who would rape and kill young women. He was tried a couple times in US courts, but the evidence was never overwhelming for a full jury conviction. It wasn't until he relocated to Mexico and his raping/killing spree went in to high gear, that he was finally convicted and jailed for life.

...I agree... napalm ALL the arms-manufacturing death merchants! ...

You will need to purchase napalm first...

good retort! I'll file that in the ,"I hate that gun dealer so much, I'm going to go out and buy a gun and shoot his brains out" Dept.

Edited August 13, 2009 by brahmburgers

[selftaopath]

so any predictions?

Yes. I a corrupt society and where there is little "rule of law" Money talks. I wonder how Thailand can ever achieve any degree of greatness - which it's people deserve- if/when power mongers and elite are self serving?

[animatic]

...I am 62. My dad almost died helping nations where the people hate Americans. He was disabled for life but was one of the lucky ones that came back after giving their lives for France & England. A worthless cause I see looking backward. Canada? Give me a break! What is it famous for? Hockey?...

Well, those Frenchies which died for American Independence might have thought the same way back in the late 18th century. "What a worthless cause to die for a punch for American peasants?!" Especially since Americans do like Brits more usually than Frenchies.

That is really weird, Brits were YOUR number one enemy for a long time but France helped you out many times. They even gave you the magnificent Statue of Liberty! A few years ago some Americans insulted them with "freedom fries". Where is your graditude?!

WWII is starting to be just another forgotten war for younger generations (GenY, Z..), those born in the 90's and younger ones do not usually give a sh*t about that war anymore. Just like nobody gives a sh*t about WWI now.

So are you going to demand eternal graditude because of your help in WWII from Europeans?

France has been hands down the most traveled to country for Americans on vacation for a long time.

Lately it has lost place to Italy and UK with only easy to get to North American dstinations between.

Country/Region 2006 2007 2008

Italy 20.3% 20.5% 18.7%

Mexico 19.0% 14.6% 16.1%

UK 18.8% 15.2% 12.5%

Caribbean 9.6% 11.6% 9.0%

France 10.5% 8.6% 9.0%

A strong part of this loss of place was because of the rise of the Euro

and lack of buying power of the dollar.

It's just a bit easier to make friends with Brits because it's 'sort of' the same language.

England was main enemy for about 3 generations and then trade and faded memories turned that all around.

And THAT was 200+ years ago.

I was in France during the roll up to Iraq 2 when Jaques Chirac told it straight to Bush, publicly,

about his plans and false flags on attacking Iraq. Bush let the word out to the conservatives to

let France have it for daring to go off message. So they attempted to embarrass the French.

Didn't work! In France the French laughed at him, and those conservative idiots.

Except when watching fools flush good wine down NYC toilets in staged shows of false patriotism.

Support the country sure, don't be stupid with good wine...

In the end Chirac was proved 100% correct, though he RARELY was at home, in this case spot on.

And except for mentions like this one it is another inter-cultural burp of the past.

The French were more bent about the onslaught of MacDonald's on their culture of cuisine than

the whole freedom Fries thing. Besides they call them Frites, and the come from Belgeium!

The French are also arms merchants, as are most all the countries with serious arms industries.

But selling country to country is a bit different to selling to clandestine groups hiding in jungles,

and looking for things to harm and harrie the government of the moment.

Hand a nutter with a bent philosophy a surface to air missile, and he will use it to make a statement,

and that likely will be via mass murder of innocents, for philosophical ends.

See Yala for instance.

Hand out a dozen S. to A. missiles and see what happens to Thai aircraft... not to mention tourists.

Sorry but loose cannons like Bout need to be corralled, and each step in that direction makes it harder for

any others that follow to do the same thing. More care must be taken and things go slower and less gets sold.

Attrition of the amoral for the greater good.

Edited August 13, 2009 by animatic

[sbk]

Well, since Viktor Bout has learned the verdict and this thread clearly has nothing more to do with this specific case

//CLOSED//