Merchant Of Death To Learn Fate Today

[ntfeeney]

Funny, every time someone gets caught trafficking drugs here, its "hang 'em high" time on TV. Next time I'm gonna defend the guy (or woman) with the "yeah, but he's only carrying a product across a border - what happens after he delivers the heroin isn't up to him, and besides Thai politicians are involved in the drug trade so that makes him innocent of any crime" line. The guy was selling weapons to the highest bidder, no matter who it was. <deleted> him. Anyway, this wasn't a trial. It was an extradition hearing. Thailand better hope it doesn't need a favor any time soon. This will not be forgotten.

And I guess I'm naive, I never knew so much petty jealousy of the US existed here. A lot of repressed anger coming out it seems. I guess a few people miss their shrinks back home

That sounds like typical American sour grapes because the USA didn't get thier own way. Good on you Thailand for standing up to the worlds dictator. I am sure now there are a lot of people in the USA who will now be proclaiming Thailand as a terrorist state because they lost and will be wanting to rally the forces to get even. Don't worry the rest of the world will be with you not the USA

I spent the whole day at the criminal court, enjoying the congregation of people interested in (especially those supporting) Mr. Bout. Congratulations to Viktor and his family who have been here for each of these hearings. Congratulations to Khun Lak, the winning defense attorney.

So, the Thai attorney general has 72 hours to do something (well, there's the holiday tomorrow, so it'll be Monday), or else Bout is back home.

Yes, the US guys (James, the Italian-looking fellow, the tall African-American, and the older gentleman, and the Dr. Phil lookalike) were not happy as they frantically searched through books, scrambling to get a clarification on the ruling (although I can't blame them - the entire proceeding was in thai language - yes, they had an interpreter).

You can see the top of my head in one of the AP photos.

I am not informed enough on international and Thai law to say whether he committed a crime, but I am happy that he is not going to New York, where he would be tried as a terrorist. His perrogative is not to destroy or terrorize the United States. I love my country, but Viktor Bout is not who wants to destroy my country.

[tropo]

The court said that it did not have the authority to punish "actions done by foreigners against other foreigners in another country."

There was a case not so long ago where some English people (British Dragon) were extradited to the US for distributing steroids internationally from their head quarters in Thailand.

I always thought there was something peculiar about this case and I had a feeling they were whisked away by the CIA without a court hearing.

[Barin]

Its only one way for him: extradition. It will happen sooner or later as US is much stronger on the ground in Thailand than Russia.

Do you want to say that if "US is much stronger on the ground in Thailand than Russia", it means that CIA and FBI can do whatever they want in Thailand and give orders to Thai government? Thai government has never obeyed orders from the US.

Thailand government is clever enough to balance between Russia and US.

[thequaife]

Merchant of death to learn fate today

By John Le Fevre

BANGKOK (thaivisa.com): -- Alleged Russian arms dealer Viktor Bout, dubbed the "Merchant of Death", will learn his fate in a Thai court later today.

Bout, who has been held in a maximum-security prison outside of Bangkok for almost a year-and-a-half, has been fighting an extradition request by the US Government since his arrest in a sting operation last March.

It is alleged the 42-year-old former Soviet air force pilot sold weapons to groups, including to Al-Qaeda, that were used in some of the world's most violent conflicts.

Bout was arrested at the five-star Sofitel hotel after allegedly agreeing to supply surface-to-air missiles to US agents posing as guerrillas from the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC).

His arrest involved not only the Royal Thai Police and the US Drug Enforcement Agency, but also the Romanian Border Police, the Romanian Prosecutor's Office Attached to the High Court of Cassation and Justice, the Korps Politie Curacao of the Netherlands Antilles and the Danish National Police Security Services.

If sent to the United States and convicted there on terrorism charges, including conspiracy to kill US officers or employees and conspiracy to acquire and use an anti-aircraft missile, the burly Tajikistanian faces life in prison.

Ever since his arrest, the man who is said to have inspired the Hollywood film Lord of War starring Nicolas Cage, has denied any involvement in weapons smuggling, or having been a KGB officer and maintained he ran a legitimate air cargo business.

However, former British foreign office minister Peter Hain dubbed him the "Merchant of Death" and rights watchdog Amnesty International has alleged that at one time he operated a fleet of more than 50 planes ferrying weapons around Africa.

Following his arrest the Russian embassy hired Thai lawyer Lak Nitiwatvichan, who told reporters, "He was a military man. He has done nothing wrong.

Another of Bout's lawyers, Yan Dasgupta, said "Some [uS] governmental officials at the moment of his detention tried to actually send him to United States without following proper extradition procedure prescribed by the law.

"He was doing everything in his power including physical resistance not to fly to the US."

Today, the man who earned the consternation of NGOs and foreign governments will learn whether his legal battles are over, or just beginning.

-- thaivisa.com 2009-08-11

yeah.. go viktor bout...

[TAWP]

Are you "Victor's" friend or just plain stupid!?!

Neither...now let me guess what you are...

Regardless of how you feel about war, or peace, or arms sales, the issue is one man and one set of circumstances.

Viktor Bout committed no crime in Thailand.

The American DEA, however, created a "set of criminal circumstances" (i.e., an illegal sting operation.)

I would argue that for all of us, who conduct business internationally, that the Bout case is one to watch, and it is not good for Thailand.

Bangkok is a cross roads where many persons meet to discuss many types of business deals, or prospective business deals.

Bout is guilty of meeting and talking.

If Bout gets extradited to the USA, it sends a chilling message far beyond just the world of Arms Sales. Practically, it means that every International businessman, everyplace, in any business, must be well versed in every trendy and fashionable American "cause d'jour".

So, I would ask the not-so-rhetorical question: If you plan to meet anyone, anywhere on the planet, to discuss any business deal of any kind, can you be sure that you are not somehow violating one of the USA's extraterritorial laws?

How do you know Victor Bout committed no crime in Thailand, are you a personal aquaintenance of his ?

It is a known fact that he has committed many crimes against humanity. Are you saying that those crimes are ok just so long as they were not against you or in your back yard.............How bloody pathetic!

The fact is that the UN is a 'toothless' tiger and under many circumstances quite open to bribery.

I am not a Yank, but say thank god for the USA, if it were not for them the world would be a far worse place to live in.

Oh yes, they do go off 'half cocked' at times, but thats the price we have to pay for some stability in the world.

Victor wasn't, as I recall, charged with any crimes supposedly done in Thailand and as such any talk about any crimes thought up in your imagination is moot.

Victor hasn't committed any 'crimes against humanity' [sic], that is just silly. You are talking like he nuked Hiroshima when the fact of the matter is that he is primarily a business man that happened to get lucky in the end of the cold war and got a hold of a huge stockpiles of weapons and war gear from primarily Ukraine iirc, and sold them to whoever wanted to buy. So the only crimes he has committed is to allow anyone to buy. You know, unlike some that only sell to countries of the 'right' skin-color and so on, which is much more honorable... :rolleyes.

Weapon embargos, resolutions from the pretend-organisation of the 'caring' UN etc is just a set of larger nations will being imposed upon the world according to their agenda. And with even non-democratic countries in the securities counsel the resolutions mostly goes against nations or organisations based in the third world, with a few notable exceptions.

In any way, his supposed [not proven] crimes is delivering cargo to countries or organisations not being approved by some countries. (And also note, his and others sales extend outside the trouble areas, but since they are approved by the 'big boys' on either end it is allowed to go on.)

[loveissan]

Its only one way for him: extradition. It will happen sooner or later as US is much stronger on the ground in Thailand than Russia.

Don't forget 2 things.

#1 there were more countries than America in that room. Thaiand other asian countries as well as a few europeans.

#2 the russian's threaten to supply arms to the militants in the south if he was exradited to The US some time earlier this year.

Thailand has nothing but the hand out and palm up. Always has and always will.There is a lot of russian mobs here. Thailand wants to be part of the UN and agreed to send trops to africa, but then it was advised that UN troops were getting killed there.They decided against that."Trust but Verify"

[tracer0]

As far as I am concerned and can see I think the economical situation in Thailand seems to be slightly improving...Doesn't mean much but it seems to get a bit better even if politicians aren't exactly helping...

Obviously many of those currently announced regulations are not going to help but that's not my problem.

What amazes me most is that the judge said they cannot kick a farang out if he did something bad to another farang.. Does that include someone going to the USA and lets say rob someone that Thailand will not hand him over ???? Or go to England and rob the tower of London...

[chefshane]

I hope he manages to fight the charges and is set free.

Given politics however, who knows how the court case will go.

Do you have any idea what he is accused of? What about the liberties of the thousands he alleged to be responsible for the death of? However I don't see why usa has to continue to be the worlds self appointed police, the UN should really get there finger out and take control.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with selling arms.

If it was, let's drag US, UK, Germany, Russia, China, and a whole lot more countries infront of an international court and convict all the politicians approving it.

Seeing it happen yet?

Fact of the matter is that the case brought up to get him extradited is a bogus one. It's not even on the level of getting Capone for tax-evasion, it is much lower.

They are actually charging him with intent - no deal in writing was ever made, he only agreed to meet and possibly sell - arms to a 'Terrorist group', that was nothing more than American Agents posing as South American representatives of one of the many militias in the region.

So it was an entrapment that never even went into conclusion.

He is a merchant of arms and in a true free world he would be allowed to sell to anyone and any country he wishes.

Wow.

An about face for the Americans.

Normally they carry on about the right to bear arms

LMAO.

Only when it is them that gets to bear them, by the look of it.

[surfaxxis]

Indeed. Of the famous things about Victor was that he supposedly shipped not only weapons, but also food and even UN material with his planes and sometimes in both directions, i.e. the planes avoided flying empty. So they might point the fingers, but he was convinient to use when they needed help.

Make no mistake, the issue is not that he deals arms. Not even to war zones. The 'mistake' was being open to any customer, even those some countries didn't like. Or reportedly, sometimes to both sides of a conflict...

Oh, Victor, if only you would had made sure to only deal with the 'nice' rogue states and not the 'evil' ones. Even if the trick is that most countries list of who is who varies...ah, the dilemma.

What was the movie, Nicholas Cage, Lords of War,, has a ring about it,

If manufacturing countries were serious about stopping this sort of thing, then close down manufacturers, but hey there is way too much money in war,, ask IBM how they made mega million "supporting Hitler" with its early "computer card system". They operated through the embargo against Germany during WW2

Bin Laden says thankyou US for all the toys of destruction the US sent

Hussein bought from US , UK ,France, in fact anyone. He had to spend the Petro Dollars some how,, guns for oil

WE reap what you (US) sow

[ernieK24]

Congratulations to all the "anti-American" posters on this board. You should all be diplomats from your respective home countries.

Do you REALLY think all the facts have been disclosed in this case ? Since you don't know what the hel_l you're talking about why don't you keep your phuckin mouth shut till you DO know the facts, and can make a fair judgement. They ought to call you "robin", you're all mouth and ass.

For all you people who hate the U.S. so much. you probably aren't old enough to remember, but if the U.S. hadn't entered World War 2 when they did, you'd all be speaking German. I'm old enough to remember, I was there.

Is all this anti-American bullshit you're spreading in any way related to the original post.....I don't think so,

[TAWP]

Congratulations to all the "anti-American" posters on this board. You should all be diplomats from your respective home countries.

Do you REALLY think all the facts have been disclosed in this case ? Since you don't know what the hel_l you're talking about why don't you keep your phuckin mouth shut till you DO know the facts, and can make a fair judgement. They ought to call you "robin", you're all mouth and ass.

For all you people who hate the U.S. so much. you probably aren't old enough to remember, but if the U.S. hadn't entered World War 2 when they did, you'd all be speaking German. I'm old enough to remember, I was there.

Is all this anti-American bullshit you're spreading in any way related to the original post.....I don't think so,

You don't even know our history and then trying to educate us what would have happened (...we would perhaps be speaking Russian, since they turned the eastern front).

WW2 would have been won without the US, it only would have taken much longer time.

[Grey11]

I hope he manages to fight the charges and is set free.

Given politics however, who knows how the court case will go.

It seems if any other country in the world wanted to extradite this arms dealer except the U.S. the Europeans would be in favor of him being extradited. Many posts on here are just anti-U.S. That's what it comes down to.

[Thai at Heart]

This should go down as one of the larger screw ups the US has perpetrated.

They get a guy arrested without being sure that he had actually committed a crime in the country where they got him arrested!

It's a bit like busting a cannabis smoker in Amsterdam.

Edited August 11, 2009 by Thai at Heart

[Coolmen]

Of course Thailand has so many gangster , illegal activities within its own borders. Usually by those with Political or economic power. Bout maybe can be used to front an operation.

PS All the Anti American Jerks on here. They just like to see these sort of court decisions , Simply because of the Failure to uphold a US extradition application, . Why we surprised , Thai Courts are the nearest thing to gambling there is. (Thai Law can never be sure to be upheld)

Any court is gambling !!!!

It is a roll of the dice .. guilty or not guilty ... ya just never know

Maybe OJ was innocent

Mybe Spector did not blow her head off

and I guess Gerrard did not bash that guy silly on Camera

In my opinion .. all three guilty ... but found innocent

So it does not only happen in Thailand

If you do not like the way Thailand operates and how it is run ... GO HOME

[OzMick]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with selling arms.

Thank God yours -and my- children just don't live in some of those African countries where his illegal weapons have been used to erase entire villages... hum?

I don't believe all those feeling the impact of his business around the world would agree on this one somehow...

The weapons aren't illegal.

Are you another of those fooled people that think that weapons sold or donated by the west only do good things while weapons from people like Victor only does bad things?

Are you seriously advocating the sale of surface-to-air missiles to any moron who wants one?

[Coolmen]

Who is guilty? Simply it is the USA and there agents who create such a mess by asking for weapons and Drugs and build up that way criminal organisations who then again have to be get rid of, so more Law Enforcement and more unjust laws are again created. What he is guilty of needs to be presented first. Funny by the way are the fact, that the biggest Arms dealer the USA is asking for his extradiction. Of course it was the government under the former Bush regime who was asking for it, while even fabricate it, like they did it all over the 8 years when Bush where in power. Hijacking people, tortur them in secret prisons all over the world, deny them any rights either guilty or not guilty. We should come to terms with reality that this US government was the most faschist one in Western History since WW2.

And that one has created all the trouble and wars we are facing on a global scale.

If he has dealed in Weapons has to be evidenced on the first hand, till now all of that is missing! So Thai Justice has made a decision which may be of importance in the future, to show there is justice available in Thailand! Maybe there is hope!

[tomashopkins]

OK, again to all of you speculative punters who have absolutely no formal training in Thai law, let alone international law...I am not saying that palms were not greased, in fact they get greased everywhere, just look at the latest scandals in Chicago or NJ. But the Thai court's judgement rang true within the boundaries of international law. Under the prescripts of int law Colombia is a "contested state" under a condition of "belligerency." Which means outside STATES or INDIVIDUALS are free intervene exactly because to outcome of the conflict is "contested." And that is what the Thai court said today (by the way much more consistent with int law than the US State Dept). The FARC are not on Thailand's list of "terrorist organizations." Although the FARC is on the US list, but so is Cuba, so is Hamas, so is Hezbollah, all of which are NOT terrorist organizations. The Thai court's ruling is completely consistent within the constrainsts of international law. The US is proposing to build FIVE more military bases withing Colombia (as of this week) and any asshol_e who has the temerity to pick up a gun to challange THAT occupation will IMMEDIATELY be labeled as a "terrorist" by the US administration. Hillary, Barak and the rest can just go sit on their fingers and twirl. Under every definition of international law the FARC DOES HAVE belligerency status, which means that selling weapons to them is neither a violation of Thai law nor international law. And if you want to dispute me on this fact, simply pick up a book on internatonal law and go to the concept of "status of belligerency." THEN get back to me.

[oswego]

Being a US citizen who pays taxes. I see better use of my tax dollars than to try to get this guy who is just doing his job. It will take all of 5 seconds for someone else to supply arms to all the people who wants it. If you need weapons, there is no lack of people who will happily supply you with anything you want.

[Orac]

This should go down as one of the larger screw ups the US has perpetrated.

They get a guy arrested without being sure that he had actually committed a crime in the country where they got him arrested!

It's a bit like busting a cannabis smoker in Amsterdam.

Almost - you would not be able to extradite someone from The Netherlands to the USA who is being charged with smoking cannabis in the USA because the crime has to exist in both countries for the extradition order to be valid.

What has happenned here is that the Thai courts have made a correct legal judgement based on the law - the crime the extradition warrant covers does not exist in Thailand as the courts have clearly stated and therefore he cannot be extradited. It is not a case of him having to have committed that crime in Thailand just that such a crime is recognised as such under Thai law.

What I cannot understand is why, if this guy is as evil as many are saying, they cannot come up with proper evidence to show that he has committed an offence that Thailand has on its statute books or he isn't being extradited to somewhere where there is a clear case against him.

[Grey11]

Congratulations to all the "anti-American" posters on this board. You should all be diplomats from your respective home countries.

Do you REALLY think all the facts have been disclosed in this case ? Since you don't know what the hel_l you're talking about why don't you keep your phuckin mouth shut till you DO know the facts, and can make a fair judgement. They ought to call you "robin", you're all mouth and ass.

For all you people who hate the U.S. so much. you probably aren't old enough to remember, but if the U.S. hadn't entered World War 2 when they did, you'd all be speaking German. I'm old enough to remember, I was there.

Is all this anti-American bullshit you're spreading in any way related to the original post.....I don't think so,

You don't even know our history and then trying to educate us what would have happened (...we would perhaps be speaking Russian, since they turned the eastern front).

WW2 would have been won without the US, it only would have taken much longer time.

Yes. World War II would have been won without the Americans. Germany would have won the war. Germany could have walked across both England & France in one week had not the Americans intervened from the west & got their allies the Russian Communists to squeeze Germany from the East. History shows that England & France begged the U.S. to intevene to save them from the Germans. Pres. Roosevelt, himself coming from English stock, was itching to join his allies the English at a time when many Americans were against intervening in wars in Europe. Until FDR, what is called "isolationism" was the rule in the U.S. passed down from the wise policies of Presidents Washington & Jefferson. Interventionism & policing the world have been U.S. policy ever since WWII. Personally I am against fighting wars and millions of American dying and wounded fighting for other countries (Israel) and in other foreign countries. Seems that the many Anti-Americans on Thai Visa paint all Americans as demons when Americans just like other countries do not necessarily support their government. The U.S. only has two political parties that are capable of ruling and there is not a dime's worth of difference. The military industrial complex is the strongest lobby group (paying off politicians and buying the office of the President of the U.S. The vast majority of Americans have no voice in the affairs of the Government. It is a rigged system.

[tim73]

For all you people who hate the U.S. so much. you probably aren't old enough to remember, but if the U.S. hadn't entered World War 2 when they did, you'd all be speaking German. I'm old enough to remember, I was there.

Is all this anti-American bullshit you're spreading in any way related to the original post.....I don't think so,

Without French involvement in the American independence war, you would be still be under British Crown. Well, that probably would have been an improvement for you anyway . Most Americans cannot even pinpoint London on a map nowadays.

[Grey11]

Who is guilty? Simply it is the USA and there agents who create such a mess by asking for weapons and Drugs and build up that way criminal organisations who then again have to be get rid of, so more Law Enforcement and more unjust laws are again created. What he is guilty of needs to be presented first. Funny by the way are the fact, that the biggest Arms dealer the USA is asking for his extradiction. Of course it was the government under the former Bush regime who was asking for it, while even fabricate it, like they did it all over the 8 years when Bush where in power. Hijacking people, tortur them in secret prisons all over the world, deny them any rights either guilty or not guilty. We should come to terms with reality that this US government was the most faschist one in Western History since WW2.

And that one has created all the trouble and wars we are facing on a global scale.

If he has dealed in Weapons has to be evidenced on the first hand, till now all of that is missing! So Thai Justice has made a decision which may be of importance in the future, to show there is justice available in Thailand! Maybe there is hope!

Have the policies changed under Obama? The guy is a great talker. But what is he saying? If he were not beholden to the elites that, through their money (influence) he would not have been elected in the first place. He does as he is told just as Bush did.

[sunholidaysun1]

Rule Britania - Britania rules the waves - NOT any more . But without us , half the world would be in the dark ages including the USA.

[RPETER65]

Regardless of how you feel about war, or peace, or arms sales, the issue is one man and one set of circumstances.

Viktor Bout committed no crime in Thailand.

The American DEA, however, created a "set of criminal circumstances" (i.e., an illegal sting operation.)

I would argue that for all of us, who conduct business internationally, that the Bout case is one to watch, and it is not good for Thailand.

Bangkok is a cross roads where many persons meet to discuss many types of business deals, or prospective business deals.

Bout is guilty of meeting and talking.

If Bout gets extradited to the USA, it sends a chilling message far beyond just the world of Arms Sales. Practically, it means that every International businessman, everyplace, in any business, must be well versed in every trendy and fashionable American "cause d'jour".

So, I would ask the not-so-rhetorical question: If you plan to meet anyone, anywhere on the planet, to discuss any business deal of any kind, can you be sure that you are not somehow violating one of the USA's extraterritorial laws?

HOW can you equate this particular case with any bussiness deal, the illegal sales of weapons of war is far from your eveyday buisness deal. Do you relly think you have enough information to state he was a victom of entrapment. In the U.S. a amn was recently arrested for trying hire a hit man to kill his wife, the man he met with to do the killing was an undercover agent, was this also entrappment? How many legitement bussines cases have you seen resulting in arrest .

[A_Traveller]

For those with patience

DoJ links

The original Complaint 14 pages

The superseding Indictment 20 pages

Even in the hagiographer penned reports of this DEA operation there is no meeting with FARC [even fake ones] on March 8 at the Sofitel.

On other words he committed no offence in Thailand and even the documentation above all hinges on claims [apparently unsubstantiated] by 'paid for' sources and the curious saga of Smulian, who is apparently in US custody though he was supposedly at the Sofitel that day. Of course, it would be impossible to prosecute Bout if he just 'turned up' in the US.

I would be somewhat concerned about just what this 'small DEA unit' is up to. They pulled a similar stunt in Spain, with the Syrian target [who was found guilty in the NY trial] being sent to the US after about a year in Spanish custody.

Regards

PS Contrary to some comments herein, extraditions are possible, under MLAT, even if the alleged offence is not subject to criminal sanction in the extraditing country. This situation is extremely unusual and in most cases the work-around is to identify a conspiracy charge [ring any bells herein] which is can be an effective catch all. Exceptions and clarifications are entered into each treaty [they are not 'boilerplate'].

/edit add This situation... catch all. as clarification. //

Edited August 11, 2009 by A_Traveller

[TehBen]

I hope he manages to fight the charges and is set free.

Given politics however, who knows how the court case will go.

Do you have any idea what he is accused of? What about the liberties of the thousands he alleged to be responsible for the death of? However I don't see why usa has to continue to be the worlds self appointed police, the UN should really get there finger out and take control.

Being an American, I don't understand why we have to be policing the world either. I wish the rest of the world could take care of themselves and stop relying so much on the USA.

...and that statement is why I dont like most Americans.

Nobody knows the true facts. Based on what I have read, that he was an arms dealer and American agents arrested him an the bases of saying he was going to sell arms before actually doing so, I would say that there is no case.

You could say he was just a businessman that made the right moves at the right times, or you could say he gave people the equipment to persecute/terrorise/rebel against innocent (or not so innocent) people. If there is no evidence to all his previous business deals with which to convict him, and based on the circumstances surrounding his arrest there can't be, then he has simply been arrested for saying he was going to do something, which if were illegal then I doubt there would be many people in the world left out of jail.

[EndofDays]

Update:

US 'disappointed and mystified' by Bout ruling: diploma

BANGKOK: -- The United States is "disappointed and mystified" by a Thai court's decision to reject a request for the extradition of Russian alleged arms dealer Viktor Bout, a senior US diplomat said Tuesday.

"We are disappointed and mystified by the court's ruling. We think the facts of the case are relevant to Thai laws," James Entwistle, the deputy chief of mission at the US embassy in Bangkok, told reporters.

The court said that it did not have the authority to punish "actions done by foreigners against other foreigners in another country."

-- AFP 2009-08-11

Hasn't anyone heard of the US policy called "Manifest Destiny", Teddy R. used it as an excuse to make war with Spain and Mexico and American Presidents and Congresses have used it as an excuse to make war on anyone they choose...It's America's "Manifest Destiny" to be the shining light of "Florida style" "Democracy" through out the world...and if you don't like it then you must be a communist by definition and anti-american to boot!!

ok, a tad paranoid and off by several decades....

[RickBradford]

Perhaps some British people out there remember the show Yes Minister and the episode "The Whisky Priest" where the whole arms trade issue was examined with good insight and (of course) excellent humour.

In sum, the arms trade is a political issue rather than a moral or legal one, and that is how this case will be handled throughout.

[EndofDays]

Congratulations to all the "anti-American" posters on this board. You should all be diplomats from your respective home countries.

Do you REALLY think all the facts have been disclosed in this case ? Since you don't know what the hel_l you're talking about why don't you keep your phuckin mouth shut till you DO know the facts, and can make a fair judgement. They ought to call you "robin", you're all mouth and ass.

For all you people who hate the U.S. so much. you probably aren't old enough to remember, but if the U.S. hadn't entered World War 2 when they did, you'd all be speaking German. I'm old enough to remember, I was there.

Is all this anti-American bullshit you're spreading in any way related to the original post.....I don't think so,

You don't even know our history and then trying to educate us what would have happened (...we would perhaps be speaking Russian, since they turned the eastern front).

WW2 would have been won without the US, it only would have taken much longer time.

Europe was lost to the Germans, North Afrika was lost to the Germans, the Pacific was lost to the Japanese. Go to the graves in France to see who won your war.

[TehBen]

Congratulations to all the "anti-American" posters on this board. You should all be diplomats from your respective home countries.

Do you REALLY think all the facts have been disclosed in this case ? Since you don't know what the hel_l you're talking about why don't you keep your phuckin mouth shut till you DO know the facts, and can make a fair judgement. They ought to call you "robin", you're all mouth and ass.

For all you people who hate the U.S. so much. you probably aren't old enough to remember, but if the U.S. hadn't entered World War 2 when they did, you'd all be speaking German. I'm old enough to remember, I was there.

Is all this anti-American bullshit you're spreading in any way related to the original post.....I don't think so,

2nd point of evidence to the above.

I dont hate the U.S, I just hate the patronising, egotistic attitude of a lot of the population.

Thanks for the help, but dont be getting all condescending on us.

BTW Is your reply in anyway related to the original post?