Group Campaigning To Stop Child Sex Industry

[blaze]

For as long as Thailand has (rightly or wrongly) had an international reputation for child prostitution, the Thais have tended to either deny that prostitution- even child prostitution is more frequent here than in other countries- or to (at the offical level) offer up sound bites indicating the government' resolve to address the problem.

But the 'problem' to most Thais seems not to be that child prostitution is harmful to the kids- but rather that it is harmful to the image of the nation.

Similarly, many foreign residents seem to also yearn for a clean up of thailand's reputation- every foreginer here, I am sure, is accustomed to the sly winks, the innuendos- and at times the ourtirght accusation of being a sex pat- or worse- a pedo-sex-pat. And so we have ex-pats similarly outraged over the publicity of the scope of child prostitution- not because it is 'immoral'- harmful to children- but because they are afraid of being painted with the pedo-sex-pat brush.

Which might explain why few expats get all hot and bothered when Thailand is portrayed as irredeemably corrupt- because, most of us are not in a position to be seen as benefiting from the corruption. But all of us (like the Thais, in fact) feel a bit uneasy about our 'reputations'- our 'face'- when the fact (?) of child prostitution is broadcast. And just like the Thais- we seek to shoot the messenger- rationalize the message- or simply drown it out.

While it's absolutely true (true as determined by courts) that quite a few accusations of child abuse rings in the west (often, curiously, involving satanic rituals) have been the result of grossly incompetent- to the point of being stupid- if not down right insane -social workers with equally incompetent and stupid police/prosecustors- this fact should not be used to whitewash the scope of the problem in this- or any other- country.

Just to balance out the picture though- the average age, apparantly (according to some international statistics that I dug up) for prostitutes entering the 'trade' globally is about 13. In Canada, it is 14-15. So while child prostitution may be a problem for Thailand- thailand is not alone.

Edited August 14, 2009 by blaze

[brahmburgers]

One reason I'm relieved to have moved away from California is the overwrought fear and presumption of guilty attitudes - so prevalent there.

I was in a large store once, and a boy about 10 was blocking my way as I turned to walk down an aisle. He was reading a comic book or something and didn't see me. I gently, barely touched his shoulder with two fingers as I scooted by on one side. His 300 lb mom must have seen the split second touch and she stopped me and scolded me with the wrath of a shoolmarm. For the first seconds of her scolding, I didn't know what she was talking about, as it was so 'off the wall.'

On the other side of the coin, I briefly dated an attractive single mom, who wouldn't even allow me to meet/greet her 3 daughters who lived in the same house. Apparently, her prior two husbands had sexually preyed upon the girls. Each husband was a Christian preacher by professions, I kid you not. The woman got so distressed, she shipped the 3 girls off to her father and mother for awhile - and then the mom found out later, that dear old grandad was also fondling the girls as he put them to bed each night, and he was head of right wing Christian fundraising foundation to benefit (you guessed it) sexually abused girls in foreign countries.

All in all, the States is bedeviled by more than swapping bad credit.

Edited August 14, 2009 by brahmburgers

[blaze]

One reason I'm relieved to have moved away from California is the overwrought fear and presumption of guilty attitudes - so prevalent there.

I was in a large store once, and a boy about 10 was blocking my way as I turned to walk down an aisle. He was reading a comic book or something and didn't see me. I gently, barely touched his shoulder with two fingers as I scooted by on one side. His 300 lb mom must have seen the split second touch and she stopped me and scolded me with the wrath of a shoolmarm. For the first seconds of her scolding, I didn't know what she was talking about, as it was so 'off the wall.'

On the other side of the coin, I briefly dated an attractive single mom, who wouldn't even allow me to meet/greet her 3 daughters who lived in the same house. Apparently, her prior two husbands had sexually preyed upon the girls. Each husband was a Christian preacher by professions, I kid you not. The woman got so distressed, she shipped the 3 girls off to her father and mother for awhile - and then the mom found out later, that dear old grandad was also fondling the girls as he put them to bed each night, and he was head of right wing Christian fundraising foundation to benefit (you guessed it) sexually abused girls in foreign countries.

All in all, the States is bedeviled by more than swapping bad credit.

While your situation was uncomfotable- particularly with the mother of the three children- wouldn't you agree that the little girls had it much worse than you did? The fact that these little girls could be abused by three men entrusted with their care is pretty sad- and so a certain zealousness - and perhaps over zealousness on the part of the public to protect children is surely understandable - if not (for the innocent targets of their zeal) forgiveable.

[Scott]

I worked in Protective Services for a number of years. I then was a program director for a series of Group Homes, some caring specifically for sexually abused children. A lot of children, once they have been abused, become highly sexualized and this often results in continuing abusive relationships. I also might add women who marry men who abuse children, were often abused themselves. It becomes a generational thing.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

And whats traffiking? I once smuggled a Burmese friend of mine to Chiang Mai so he could work as a builder. He travelled with me in my car, in the front seat, not in the boot..... am I a trafficker?

Yes. And if he was 17, then this case is very much included in ECPATs child trafficking stats. They don't make any distinction between a 10 year old being abused, or a 17 year old girl in a karaoke place. While both are indeed illegal and a crime, I would personally find it outrageous if an NGO didn't leverage all their efforts towards the 10 year old. As it stands however, they themselves don't even want to acknowledge the difference, the priority is seemingly to get to the biggest number / statistic, not the safety of the 10 year old. And that's just sad.

[trucking]

These people get my vote 110%

Agreed. A lot more needs to be done by all concerned to stamp out this evil.

[Krungthepian]

This is a worthy issue to campaign about - or much more preferably - actually doing something to try to prevent occurring.

But as several earlier posters have said - the figure mentioned ($28 billion) is ludicrous.. I believe ECPAT are regarded by some academics, journalists, etc, as having a bad tendency to grossly exaggerating the scale of the problem.. presumably to validate their work, and attract donations in a economically constrained world.

Prostitution involving underage kids is probably an ugly reality in all countries, and one would presume that trafficking of young people for sexual purposes is much worse in poorer regions (and that the problem is worse in neighbouring countries; I'm sure most NGOs and academics say it's a far greater problem in Cambodia than here).

It IS a problem in Thailand - although probably mainly in the North and involving stateless (hilltribe or migrant) children. Someone above has already noted the involvement of hilltribe kids. Friends of mine who live in Chiang Mai say the same thing.

It probably also exists in dodgy places in Pattaya (Sunee Plaza?) and Bangkok's Chinatown, both of which had (have?) a bad reputation for this.

But people who have read Simon Baker's book 'Child Labour and Child Prostitution in Thailand: Changing Realities' would know the problem has diminished greatly from what it was in the past two decades. This book (White Lotus 2007) is based on the field work Baker did for a PhD. He recently worked at the HIV unit at Unesco in Bangkok.

Baker is an Australian who gave talk at Unesco five or six years ago where he noted that child prostitution had greatly declined in Thailand for a whole range of reasons - such as rising affluence and the simple fact most children were/are staying in school for years longer than previously and thus not forced to work or be in places where they might be vulnerable to abuse.

It's nice to see groups like Body Shop and others getting on board to fight trafficking of kids, but I really wonder how much of their money is wasted on big press events such the one in Bangkok yesterday, to promote the ECPAT report, when it would be better spent at centres in the north, or NGOs working on child protection near any of Thailand's borders, where there are vulnerable children.

Indeed ECPAT should get smart and start lobbying the government to give identity cards to all hilltribe people ASAP. That would offer much greater basic protection - by giving children access to education and a host of other state services, allowing their parents to travel outside their local area to work, and not locking these people out of the "system", as is currently the case for maybe half a million people. A lot of those people are Thai-born and raised, but never got birth certificates or ID cards.

They ought to light a fire under the Interior ministry and expedite this change rapidly, cos it is incredibly important, as the UNESCO anthropologist David Feingold has highlighted on many occasions - he oversaw a big study a year or two ago funded by the Brits, which revealed very damning statistics about the poverty inflicted on hilltribe groups because of the appallingly slow and racist manner in which Thai officials process identity documents. I think Feingold rated lack of identity documents as the single greatest factor that made hilltribe women, girls or kids vulnerable to prostitution and sex trafficking.

A friend who used to live in Sangkhlaburi said today it used to be common for officials - police, soldiers, govt people - to ring ahead and book a girl (often young) at hotels at that town. I don't know if the problem is still that open, but it's those out-of-the-way border areas, I suspect, where these situations are perhaps the worst.

I hope ECPAT opens shelters or sponsors effective personnel in those areas instead of just setting up an office in Bangkok to blow their bugle. I think the problem is recognised in the major urban areas and it's out on the frontier that they really need to get to work now. And probably neighbouring countries, simply cos they're poorer and more vulnerable to this whole scenario.

There was a report on Australian TV about a month ago on a former soldier from Brisbane who has a small organisation called the Grey Man.. he has allegedly been involved in the rescue of 80 young women or girls (later handed to the International Justice Mission, I think), and the arrest of about 20 Thai or Lao men who procured or offered those young girls for sex. That could be fairly dangerous work, but that fellow appears to have had a lot of success. He's allegedly had to employ local men to work in his place because word has spread about him, but I'd be more inclined to back someone like that than Ecpat, largely because he appears to be getting results rather than talking a lot about the problem. Maybe Ecpat should hire people to do the same.

Also, I think there's a much better chance of getting a good response from officials at present, as my impression is the Abhisit government does want to clean up corruption, particularly in the police force .. that's why you're seeing all these moves to get red-shirt Thaksin-loving police chiefs out of the driving seat. And murder charges laid on police in Kalasin and Tak for killings during the war on drugs, etc. They need to flush all those bad cops out of the system, and I think they are quietly trying to do just that. Pray that they have some success, cos this country needs a lift after five and a half years of Thaksin (and all the lingering trouble he's stirring up because they want to confiscate his corruptly acquired billions).

Pardon for the yellow-shirt promo, but I think when you have a system that's rotten from the top down - in which cops bid for the most lucrative stations (such as Lumpini, cos it's got Patpong in the area, or Mae Sot immigration office), you have a recipe for disaster.. and people who want to make money involved in crime rather than fighting it. Clean up the force and all problems here - from child sex to everything (except perhaps a rubber sapling scam) get tackled better, faster and more thoroughly. That's the theory, anyway.

All we need is for the Burmese to nuke the reds, and our problems are over.

[animatic]

For as long as Thailand has (rightly or wrongly) had an international reputation for child prostitution, the Thais have tended to either deny that prostitution- even child prostitution is more frequent here than in other countries- or to (at the offical level) offer up sound bites indicating the government' resolve to address the problem.

But the 'problem' to most Thais seems not to be that child prostitution is harmful to the kids- but rather that it is harmful to the image of the nation.

Similarly, many foreign residents seem to also yearn for a clean up of thailand's reputation- every foreginer here, I am sure, is accustomed to the sly winks, the innuendos- and at times the ourtirght accusation of being a sex pat- or worse- a pedo-sex-pat. And so we have ex-pats similarly outraged over the publicity of the scope of child prostitution- not because it is 'immoral'- harmful to children- but because they are afraid of being painted with the pedo-sex-pat brush.

Which might explain why few expats get all hot and bothered when Thailand is portrayed as irredeemably corrupt- because, most of us are not in a position to be seen as benefiting from the corruption. But all of us (like the Thais, in fact) feel a bit uneasy about our 'reputations'- our 'face'- when the fact (?) of child prostitution is broadcast. And just like the Thais- we seek to shoot the messenger- rationalize the message- or simply drown it out.

While it's absolutely true (true as determined by courts) that quite a few accusations of child abuse rings in the west (often, curiously, involving satanic rituals) have been the result of grossly incompetent- to the point of being stupid- if not down right insane -social workers with equally incompetent and stupid police/prosecustors- this fact should not be used to whitewash the scope of the problem in this- or any other- country.

Just to balance out the picture though- the average age, apparantly (according to some international statistics that I dug up) for prostitutes entering the 'trade' globally is about 13. In Canada, it is 14-15. So while child prostitution may be a problem for Thailand- thailand is not alone.

Well thought out.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Great post by Krungthepian.... until I got to the anti Reds rant.. Not needed, or helpful, or apt.

Edited August 14, 2009 by WinnieTheKhwai

[WinnieTheKhwai]

If you want to see underage prostitution in Thailand, it's readily available - to those who speak Thai and who venture into non-farang karaokee bars/clubs, especially in small rural towns.

Under-age prostitution is indeed rife, but child sexual abuse, as in, pre-pubescent children, isn't. (At least not in a commercial, non-family setting)

The following is usually where a huge argument ensues, and oddly enough it's often started by quoting from Wikipedia or a dictionary in an attempt to get everyone on the same page:

A lot of people confuse paedophilia with cases of underage sex; a paedophile targets children. Actual children. Paedophiles need to be taken out, whatever it takes. Ending up with a 17 year old Karaoke girl in the morning happens to (some of) the best of us. It'd be better if it didn't, but I'd really hope all effort and focus goes to the paedophiles who target and abuse *children*.

Edited August 14, 2009 by WinnieTheKhwai

[NCFC]

Just hope they have the intent and the money to handle both sides of the coin- preventing trafficking and exploitation on the demand side is only half of the problem- the other half is giving the children a real alternative way to live.

Indeed. I think it was UNESCO that released a report that showed that western protest against 'child labors' in primarily Indian shoe and textile factories [that lead the factories to be forced to dismiss the non-adults to be able to retain the contracts with the western companies hiring them] lead the thousands of children being forced into the sex-trade to make up for the lack of income from a normal job.

Sometimes 'compassion' without understanding of geological differences can have the effects one least wants.

And what geological differences would they be, granite man?

[TAWP]

Just hope they have the intent and the money to handle both sides of the coin- preventing trafficking and exploitation on the demand side is only half of the problem- the other half is giving the children a real alternative way to live.

Indeed. I think it was UNESCO that released a report that showed that western protest against 'child labors' in primarily Indian shoe and textile factories [that lead the factories to be forced to dismiss the non-adults to be able to retain the contracts with the western companies hiring them] lead the thousands of children being forced into the sex-trade to make up for the lack of income from a normal job.

Sometimes 'compassion' without understanding of geological differences can have the effects one least wants.

And what geological differences would they be, granite man?

I was sure I typed geo-political...I blame the spell-checker.

Edited August 14, 2009 by TAWP

[sanmiguellight]

In the UK kids are 99.9% more likely to get interfered with by a relative or close friend of the family, surely this still taboo subject in the West would be better dealt with in LOS as you can be sure in many areas of LOS this is rife!

[brahmburgers]

......

Indeed ECPAT should get smart and start lobbying the government to give identity cards to all hilltribe people ASAP. That would offer much greater basic protection - by giving children access to education and a host of other state services, allowing their parents to travel outside their local area to work, and not locking these people out of the "system", as is currently the case for maybe half a million people. A lot of those people are Thai-born and raised, but never got birth certificates or ID cards.

They ought to light a fire under the Interior ministry and expedite this change rapidly, cos it is incredibly important, as the UNESCO anthropologist David Feingold has highlighted on many occasions - he oversaw a big study a year or two ago funded by the Brits, which revealed very damning statistics about the poverty inflicted on hilltribe groups because of the appallingly slow and racist manner in which Thai officials process identity documents. I think Feingold rated lack of identity documents as the single greatest factor that made hilltribe women, girls or kids vulnerable to prostitution and sex trafficking.

Giving identity cards to disenfranchised people should be a TOP PRIORITY for Thai gov't. IMMEDIATELY! There should be a brisk system along with an amnesty (against forced marginalization) for all those who can show, even by word of mouth from fellow villagers, that they've had some involvement with Thailand during the past 5 years. Other than obvious recent migrants, there should be blanket granting of hill tribe (CHAO KAO) green ID cards to hill tribers. Those cards should allow the same access to eductation, freedom of travel, passport issuance, 30 baht health care as are available to lower caste Thais. As for the phrase 'lower caste" let's be frank here, there is a caste system in Thailand.

Does Bkk power brokers (a.k.a. polititians) know there is a pay-for-citizenship program going on in parts of Thailand? If they don't know, then they're either ignorant or uninformed. Individual Pu Yai Ban position themselves to get between 50,000 and 150,000 baht per ID (and even then it's not certain the ID is genuine). That's money that goes in to his pocket, none to gov't, unless there are pay-offs up the ladder.

Does Thai gov't condone individuals getting rich by selling Thai citizenship? If not, what are they doing to stem such daily extortions? BTW, 50,000 baht for a hill triber, is like a million dollars for the average retired farang. It's waaaaaaaaay beyond their grasp, and can only ge gotten though loans.

Burma has its international blemishes from its warfare with ethnic minorties. Thailand is near as bad (in int'l perspective) with it's continuing disenfranchisement of its ethnic minorities.

As much as any other factor, this exacerbates the trend of young girls getting funneled continually to Bangkok, Pattaya, Phuket, Samui for you-know-what biz.

[animatic]

......

Indeed ECPAT should get smart and start lobbying the government to give identity cards to all hilltribe people ASAP. That would offer much greater basic protection - by giving children access to education and a host of other state services, allowing their parents to travel outside their local area to work, and not locking these people out of the "system", as is currently the case for maybe half a million people. A lot of those people are Thai-born and raised, but never got birth certificates or ID cards.

They ought to light a fire under the Interior ministry and expedite this change rapidly, cos it is incredibly important, as the UNESCO anthropologist David Feingold has highlighted on many occasions - he oversaw a big study a year or two ago funded by the Brits, which revealed very damning statistics about the poverty inflicted on hilltribe groups because of the appallingly slow and racist manner in which Thai officials process identity documents. I think Feingold rated lack of identity documents as the single greatest factor that made hilltribe women, girls or kids vulnerable to prostitution and sex trafficking.

Giving identity cards to disenfranchised people should be a TOP PRIORITY for Thai gov't. IMMEDIATELY! There should be a brisk system along with an amnesty (against forced marginalization) for all those who can show, even by word of mouth from fellow villagers, that they've had some involvement with Thailand during the past 5 years. Other than obvious recent migrants, there should be blanket granting of hill tribe (CHAO KAO) green ID cards to hill tribers. Those cards should allow the same access to eductation, freedom of travel, passport issuance, 30 baht health care as are available to lower caste Thais. As for the phrase 'lower caste" let's be frank here, there is a caste system in Thailand.

Does Bkk power brokers (a.k.a. polititians) know there is a pay-for-citizenship program going on in parts of Thailand? If they don't know, then they're either ignorant or uninformed. Individual Pu Yai Ban position themselves to get between 50,000 and 150,000 baht per ID (and even then it's not certain the ID is genuine). That's money that goes in to his pocket, none to gov't, unless there are pay-offs up the ladder.

Does Thai gov't condone individuals getting rich by selling Thai citizenship? If not, what are they doing to stem such daily extortions? BTW, 50,000 baht for a hill triber, is like a million dollars for the average retired farang. It's waaaaaaaaay beyond their grasp, and can only ge gotten though loans.

Burma has its international blemishes from its warfare with ethnic minorties. Thailand is near as bad (in int'l perspective) with it's continuing disenfranchisement of its ethnic minorities.

As much as any other factor, this exacerbates the trend of young girls getting funneled continually to Bangkok, Pattaya, Phuket, Samui for you-know-what biz.

Spot on!

These 'national leaders' and I mean ALL Sides not one or the other,

worry about loss of face in somethings the west could care less about,

and yet think this is ok, while for us it is an EGREGIOUS loss of face/honor for them.... and they just don't get it....

Hilltribes are good workers and typically choose honest work to crime IF POSSIBLE.

So Thailand is losing productive workers from idiotic jingoist myopia, and racisim against

those VERY closely related to them in truth.

But the entrenched profit's for the middle tier bosses, made on the backs of some of these poor people, is too much to let go...

Once an amoral bastard why stop....unless forced to. So they back leaders who let it continue either from cluelessness ignorance or enui...

Edited August 15, 2009 by animatic

[blaze]

I fear that reducing the perceived causes to issues revolving around poverty is too simplistic- The real problem is that Thai culture doesn't really concern itself with the well being of any one outside the family. There doesn't seem to be much 'moral' outrage over parents selling children to brothels- as was more common twenty years ago probably than now. These weren't hill tribe families either- they were Thai, albeit, frequently from the north- Payao and Chiang Rai. That attitude, twenty years ago, among the Bangkok Thais was that if the parents want to sell the kids- that's 'up to them'.

In the north selling your children into prostitution was regarded, I think (based on discussions with parents of children) as no different from sending them to work on a neighbor's farm to pay off a loan to that neighbor.) A child- in a sex-market- is a valuable commodity- you don't have to be poor to want top buck for your commodities. In other words- the real issue, I think, is not economic- it is cultural- cultural pockets that see no moral dimension to 'renting' a child out to perform sexual services- and a wider society that simply couldn't care less until their own reputation is blackened.

[melonf]

The UK press story from ECPAT UK widened out the monetary contributions angle to include more transactions that may be related to crime.

Well if the Government legalised people enjoying themselves in a brothel or with a joint, then the money simply wouldn't end up criminal hands. Hardly the fault of ordinary people when it is government policy that has made these trades illegal.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/1...g-piracy-drugs:

More than a fifth of Britons may be unknowingly contributing to child trafficking, a survey published today reveals.

People who buy pirate DVDs and roses from street vendors, smoke home-grown cannabis, give money to child beggars and use prostitutes may be supporting what the United Nations has described as a modern day slave trade, says research published by ECPAT, the international campaign against the sexual exploitation of children.

According to the survey, published at the launch of a nationwide campaign to raise awareness, 89% of those questioned were not aware that their activities may be contributing to illegal businesses run by networks who smuggle children from countries such as China, Africa and Afghanistan

If you engage in these activities then you are supporting the illegal economy and that includes trafficking, said Chris Beddoe, chief executive of ECPAT UK.

[TAWP]

People who buy pirate DVDs and roses from street vendors, smoke home-grown cannabis, give money to child beggars and use prostitutes may be supporting what the United Nations has described as a modern day slave trade, says research published by ECPAT, the international campaign against the sexual exploitation of children.

If you engage in these activities then you are supporting the illegal economy and that includes trafficking, said Chris Beddoe, chief executive of ECPAT UK.

Big money scheming together to link completely unrelated activities with today's boogie-monster of 'save the children'-slogans.

[astral]

The farang underage sex issue is the smallest tip of an iceberg. The bulk of that iceberg is Thaii-Thai underage prostitution which doesn't make interesting newspaper headlines.

Well said Simon.

That is my experience and the situation has not changed over the 25 years that I have known Thailand.

Mind you 25 years ago the age of consent was 14, so it was a different ballgame.

It was not uncommon for Thai fathers to take sons to a brothel for their first experience.

That was before AIDS became rife.

My Dad would never have considered such an idea.

[animatic]

The farang underage sex issue is the smallest tip of an iceberg. The bulk of that iceberg is Thaii-Thai underage prostitution which doesn't make interesting newspaper headlines.

Well said Simon.

That is my experience and the situation has not changed over the 25 years that I have known Thailand.

Mind you 25 years ago the age of consent was 14, so it was a different ballgame.

It was not uncommon for Thai fathers to take sons to a brothel for their first experience.

That was before AIDS became rife.

My Dad would never have considered such an idea.

He would never have considered that you could

moderate a Thai forum from Tarabulus either.

[catmac]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/1...g-piracy-drugs:

More than a fifth of Britons may be unknowingly contributing to child trafficking, a survey published today reveals.

People who buy pirate DVDs and roses from street vendors, smoke home-grown cannabis, give money to child beggars and use prostitutes may be supporting what the United Nations has described as a modern day slave trade, says research published by ECPAT, the international campaign against the sexual exploitation of children.

According to the survey, published at the launch of a nationwide campaign to raise awareness, 89% of those questioned were not aware that their activities may be contributing to illegal businesses run by networks who smuggle children from countries such as China, Africa and Afghanistan

If you engage in these activities then you are supporting the illegal economy and that includes trafficking, said Chris Beddoe, chief executive of ECPAT UK.

More alarmist bullsh#t from The Guardian and ECPAT. The more I hear from these do-gooders, the more I regard them as little more than money-craving charlatans.

To claim that 20% of the British population are contributing to child sex trafficking because they buy a dodgy DVD, etc., is as daft as saying that any Briton buying a kilo of Thai rice is supporting under-age Thai prostitution.

[TAWP]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/1...g-piracy-drugs:

More than a fifth of Britons may be unknowingly contributing to child trafficking, a survey published today reveals.

People who buy pirate DVDs and roses from street vendors, smoke home-grown cannabis, give money to child beggars and use prostitutes may be supporting what the United Nations has described as a modern day slave trade, says research published by ECPAT, the international campaign against the sexual exploitation of children.

According to the survey, published at the launch of a nationwide campaign to raise awareness, 89% of those questioned were not aware that their activities may be contributing to illegal businesses run by networks who smuggle children from countries such as China, Africa and Afghanistan

If you engage in these activities then you are supporting the illegal economy and that includes trafficking, said Chris Beddoe, chief executive of ECPAT UK.

More alarmist bullsh#t from The Guardian and ECPAT. The more I hear from these do-gooders, the more I regard them as little more than money-craving charlatans.

To claim that 20% of the British population are contributing to child sex trafficking because they buy a dodgy DVD, etc., is as daft as saying that any Briton buying a kilo of Thai rice is supporting under-age Thai prostitution.

I think we can get that to reach 100% by claiming that buying the under-priced (cheap) Jasmine rice from Thailand forces rice-farmers daughters to look into prostitution for money for food, education or wares. And not buying it put families out of jobs/not enough income and therefor force daughters into prostitution for money for food, education and wares.

[animatic]

With 6 degrees of separation everyone is responsible for everything.

Shouldn't be a reason to stop us going after bad shit.

The social contract is a double edged sword,

and must cut fairly, but still must cut where needed.

[sassienie]

So in Thailand, where is all this apparent child sex exploitation taking place? What are the statistics of how many underage children are participating within the sex industry? And who or what criminal organisations are controlling it? As usual, more questions than answers.

I have never personally seen any evidence of children working in bars, iffy massage parlours or soliciting for sex.

Over the last 20 years the Thai authorities have done a lot in the prevention of child exploitation, including severe penalties for those discovered abusing children, frequent raids on sex establishments, on line surveillance and publicity campaigns.

It appears that the figures and statistics regarding child abuse in Thailand has been hyped and is in no way as serious a problem as some would have us believe.

Edited August 15, 2009 by sassienie

[TAWP]

With 6 degrees of separation everyone is responsible for everything.

Shouldn't be a reason to stop us going after bad shit.

The social contract is a double edged sword,

and must cut fairly, but still must cut where needed.

Ofcourse that isn't a reason to not go after pedo's, but it is also an argument against alarmist hyperbole that is meant to put guilt into everyone's minds to force them to do actions they wouldn't agree with otherwise. There isn't a coincident that they like pirate goods (software and movies, primarily) to in any way be linked to trafficking kids - even if everyone I know involved in creating, distributing or even selling [here in Thailand] is in no way linked to this kind of crime. Unless you count the police they pay off...

[rafval]

depends a bit on definition of child, once puberty is reached you cant stop anything, I know many girls that started working around 14, they werent forced, they enjoyed it and they liked the money, younger then that is different but I have never come across that in Thailand, then again I have never looked for it

[churchill]

Interview From Bangkok: Child-Trafficking The 3rd Biggest Global Consumer Market

Carmen Madriñán, Executive Director, ECPAT International, tells Anthony Dias that the saddest truth for all adults and parents is that child-trafficking has nudged it way up to become the third biggest global consumer market after such major crimes like drugs and arms sales.

http://newsblaze.com/story/20090819081742a...b/topstory.html

[siam2007]

These people get my vote 110%

Wow 28billion a year that's unbelievable.

why unbelievable ?

they need these amounts to pay the usually high salaries for their fully-employed Farang NGO-workers and their additional expenses.

I had the "pleasure" to meet several of these....

but thumbs up to those Farang who do non-NGO charity-work VOLUNTARILY !

[gmarie]

depends a bit on definition of child, once puberty is reached you cant stop anything, I know many girls that started working around 14, they werent forced, they enjoyed it and they liked the money, younger then that is different but I have never come across that in Thailand, then again I have never looked for it

Did you really just say that???

And no, maybe you have not looked for it. Not to have gone looking for girls under the age of 14, it must have been quite a challenge. Well done you!!

However, from knowledge and experience from working with those making attempts to ensure young girls (and boys, yes, you forgot to mention them) you do not have to look very far. Or ask many questions. Money obtains whatever tickles these guys fancy.

Ignorance is Bliss, Huh?

[TAWP]

depends a bit on definition of child, once puberty is reached you cant stop anything, I know many girls that started working around 14, they werent forced, they enjoyed it and they liked the money, younger then that is different but I have never come across that in Thailand, then again I have never looked for it

Did you really just say that???

And no, maybe you have not looked for it. Not to have gone looking for girls under the age of 14, it must have been quite a challenge. Well done you!!

However, from knowledge and experience from working with those making attempts to ensure young girls (and boys, yes, you forgot to mention them) you do not have to look very far. Or ask many questions. Money obtains whatever tickles these guys fancy.

Ignorance is Bliss, Huh?

I hope this isn't a new feminist user I am responding to, but you should perhaps tone down the ether. He never said it was a challenge to not look for it etc, he said what many of us says - the existence of children in prostitution seems to be geared against the local market and/or secluded groups of people and not something any of us will stumble upon. And neither is it something many of us, even monetarily, are supporting no-matter of actions.

Even if we buy pirated DVDs, fake LV bags or gogo girls...