Thailand Fever

[Merangue]

Read it years ago. Gave it to my then girlfriend to read after i had finished it.

I found it to be interesting enough to recommend it to others. Reason being that whilst it hardly answers all the issues you can find in a western/Thai relationship it CAN open eyes to the fact that there are some pretty big differences between the cultures.

Incidentally my girlfriend back then is now my wife and i saw her checking something in the book only last week.

[IanForbes]

Incidentally my girlfriend back then is now my wife and i saw her checking something in the book only last week.

Sneeky little creatures aren't they.

[Datsun240Z]

The day I feel the need to read a book to manage a relationship, I will Quit. Just another money making mission I think.

[IanForbes]

The day I feel the need to read a book to manage a relationship, I will Quit.

Maybe that is why the divorce rate in western countries is over 50%... they don't read and they all quit.

[lioness]

yeah right..

that's why billions of women read those glossy's about relationships.

how many vogue quizzes have you done, lioness?

It may be that folks like you need a book, just for the record I have never felt the need to do quizzies,, better to live in the real world and work things out for oneself.

[a2396]

This is Chris Pirazzi, the author of Thailand Fever.

Now i can safely predict that by his somewhat librarian esq look he was never too successful with the women back in America, thus isnt in a position to give advice on women or relationships as i'd be willing to put money on that he never really had a whole lot to do with women before he got off the plane in BKK 10 yrs ago.

She looks like a He. Do you think "she" might have some biased opinions?

[bangla]

It may be that folks like you need a book

i'm surprised you can read.

how did you learn that without books?

and it also seems you're quite interested in this topic otherwise you wouldn't have read it.

just for the record I have never felt the need to do quizzies,, better to live in the real world and work things out for oneself.

hahahaha.. yeah ok.

still you're posting 360 messages on this forum and that means you have probably read 1000s.

hanging out on internet forums is living in the real world nowadays huh?

[tlusername]

I don't know, I am willing to be corrected here and maybe rightfully will, but it's kind of lame to need a book to learn and understand how your wife / GF / lover works. Don't get me wrong there is no harm in it and it may well help some situations, but are thai's that stereotypical that a guy who looks like Bill Gates educates you in the framework on how to have a relationship with a women I should imagine you have fallen in love with. I know my wife (thai obviously) is not, she is very much one to her own and I had to work hard at sussing that out just as I did with my previous relationships with the English girls and a South African and Swedish girl I dated and then lived with.

But now it has clicked while writing this - they were from the same class and level of education as me, which makes a big difference....so I am just being a snob and gloating from high..which as arrogant as it appears does feel quite good

Edited August 24, 2009 by tlusername

[lioness]

It may be that folks like you need a book

i'm surprised you can read.

how did you learn that without books?

and it also seems you're quite interested in this topic otherwise you wouldn't have read it.

just for the record I have never felt the need to do quizzies,, better to live in the real world and work things out for oneself.

hahahaha.. yeah ok.

still you're posting 360 messages on this forum and that means you have probably read 1000s.

hanging out on internet forums is living in the real world nowadays huh?

Well for someone who hasn't been a member too long and with over a hundred posts you sure have a lot of crap to spout, better get your hand off it and grab a brain.

[chiangmaibruce]

I don't know, I am willing to be corrected here and maybe rightfully will, but it's kind of lame to need a book to learn and understand how your wife / GF / lover works. ....

Perhaps the benefit of the book is not so much to help the reader to understand the particular individual they are courting. Perhaps it's aimed more at opening the readers eyes to the types of differences that may be encountered, and then to help them get a handle on the issue of how much (of a particular behavioural trait) is the individual, versus how much is just a reflection of cultural pre-dispositions. In other words the book (and others like it) provide something of a frame of reference in which guys/girls can then move on to better understand, and move in step with, the object of their affections.

[bangla]

it's clear that everyone who has actually read the book finds it quite useful.

people who haven't read it seem to magically know it's crap and useless.

the latter seem to have some kind of weird aversion against books altogether and for some reason get very hostile towards people who do read.

Edited August 24, 2009 by bangla

[villagefarang]

You are the only one who has been hostile around here.

it's clear that everyone who has actually read the book finds it quite useful.

people who haven't read it seem to magically know it's crap and useless.

the latter seem to have some kind of weird aversion against books altogether and for some reason get very hostile towards people who do read.

[Mark Wolfe]

it's clear that everyone who has actually read the book finds it quite useful.

people who haven't read it seem to magically know it's crap and useless.

Not this person. I read the book and can tell you categorically that it is so biased as to be little more than a footnote.

The major problems with this book are:

1) It assumes far, far too bright an outlook on every situation. It has a very hollow ring throughout of being some sort of Christian tract on relationships. It also reads like how you'd expect the situation to be viewed by a Mormon missionary.

1A) It assumes that all or the vast majority of Thai women are basically honest and motivated by honorable intentions. I think the truth is far more complex than this book leads us to believe.

2) It only superficially mentions bargirls, or any of their permutations. Considering the vast number of girls either on the game or formerly so in Thailand, excluding this group is like writing a history of basketball in the US that leaves out all black players. Interesting arcana, but little else.

The portrayals in this book are so skewed toward the warm, fuzzy, happy ending that it becomes clear early on that whatever usefulness this book might have to offer, its real life applications are very limited.

[ucantbeserious]

well i couldn't read the free pages,

when will people stop posting illegible images instead of text.??

but there is one abiding thing that always seems to be to the forefront of these discussions.

the lack of reciprocity.

going back years ago i was in a teacher training seminar thing which taught newbies about how and what to do in thailand.

so we would not offend the thai people in schools.

so you bend over backwards to be nice.

the thai administrators do absolutely nothing to accomodate the foreigners' culture.

its a one-way street.

this syndrome is common on this forum and all over Thailand wherever i have been.

you are expected to erase your own self-respect, you are lower than a dog on the thai social scale.

you are expected to deny your own culture and believe all thai culture is sacrosanct.

well i don't play this game anymore.

my culture and education and thinking processes are generally much superior to thai culture and the thai people i have met.

why should i surrender?

if thai's are so narrow minded that they won't make allowances for foreign ways of doing things,

and even learn something good from them,

then i believe its their loss.

this is so true when you see the talent and intelligence that many foreign teachers have

that is simply ignored and not utilised as a valuable resource.

its their loss.

i know many guys are happy in the village.

good luck to them.

for them its fitting in... for me its unacceptable surrender.

i have never had a thai girlfriend.

on the occassions when i have been "courting" a thai girl,

i have always had the impression that if a realtionship ensues it will only be on her terms.

yes, i know there are many girls not like this, but thats my experience.

these are women with education and reasonable jobs.

as soon as it feels like i am "buying" their love , i am gone.

hahh, i hear you say, you don't understand thai culture.

hahhh, i say, well maybe i prefer to understand the person first.

there is no answer,

it will always be a murky mess.

flame away!!!!!!!!

[mahtin]

Not another teacher with no command of basic grammar?

[EvilDrSomkid]

Well, I am going to fess up and eat humble pie here.

Despite my tough guy words on the 1st page about me definitely not reading this book, things don't always go according to plan in Thailand.

When the wife and I went on honeymoon to the Maldives last month, we were browsing around the tiny Asia Books at Swampy.

Lo and behold the Thailand Fever book. I showed it to my better half, and she said, yeah, good idea, buy it.

Ended up reading it in a few days.

It was quite educational. Although the wife and I communicate quite well, I thought it could not hurt. Despite the observations others have made about how it focused on Americans and Isaan girls, it was useful.

I found the bits on Naam jai, Sam-nuk-bun-kun and Gat-dtan-yuu helpful. It did go into the BG bit a little, but not too much. The own space for westerners was also nice. She knew about this herself already. I had heard of naam jai, but not the other expressions.

I don't regret reading the book, but found the statement about the Thai man gladly showering his wife with gifts, money and whatnot for her and her family a bit rich. After reading it, my wife, started to have a look at it and then decided to read the whole book. She did not get offended by the BG bits.

She said, yes, many things in there are very true. However, she did not agree with many Thai cultural aspects. In fact, her family are little westernized in that sense. She is very independent and her parents accept this.

Would recommend it to others? Sure, why not.

After reading Thailand Fever, I read Phra Farang. That was more educational and very amusing, too.

[OxfordWill]

I think its really great you changed your mind and read it. Hope others are also tempted by your experience. Its a great first stepping stone and I meet so many long timers who even have thai wifes, who know less about Thai culture and their wifes way of thinking than is covered in the first chapters of that book. Which of course is a shame, but those types know who they are and theyre the ones posting in anger against a simple, short, book who can do no harm even if it was dropped from State tower onto their heads.

[WhiteShrek]

I read this a few years back. I liked the idea of a bi-lingual book and had visions of using this to discuss topics with the Mrs. as well as top up my Thai.

I got the impression the Thai lady had written most of it, and the guy had either been lazy with his part or simply hadn't realised the rest of the west isn't always the same as his little part of the globe.

In reality I have to say I was very disappointed with the book. I didn't even bother passing it to the Mrs. as so much of the stuff about the west just wasn't right for where I come from and my values, or those of the many people from different places I know.

[HABITAT]

I have never had problems socializing at any level. All the mistakes I made were of my own volition.

All of hers were of her own doing. There is no guarantee in life or love. We simply move on, to the next level.

Plus 3 billion women globally - so little time.

[WhiteShrek]

A few specifics to your questions:

1. Yes did seem to favour Thai values. Also seemed to be explaining what she would like Thailand to be rather than what it is sometimes.

2. You're right I couldn't always relate to the "western values". Fairness, equality and truth definitely. Independence and privacy wouldn't be near the top of my list, and aren't really key drivers.

3.

Sometimes the female Thai author threw in comments that, perhaps, misperceived Western thinking or were just plain crass

Yes definitely. That's probably one of the biggest factors why I never passed it to the Mrs. Not sure why the whitey didn't correct these and they often spoilt the book.

In summary: For any foreigner who's been in a Thai relationship for a while, and made an effort and lived here, there wasn't much new there on Thais/Thailand and the stuff on westerners was often as you say "misperceived" or "just plain crass".

Trying to be positive: Full marks for the idea.

[WhiteShrek]

This is Chris Pirazzi, the author of Thailand Fever.

Now i can safely predict that by his somewhat librarian esq look he was never too successful with the women back in America....

Seriously. It's harsh ... but possibly true. The librarian theory could also explain why so many of the western elements went uncorrected. Maybe someone with little worldly experience and unlikely to have a wide diversity of real friends outside what he's read in a book about people.

If I recall, wasn't the Thai lady also a divorcee. Again one has to wonder how this might have been either a cause or effect of so many of the seemingly crass or inaccurate comments about the west. Or perhaps that's the way "America" really is

Edited October 9, 2009 by WhiteShrek

[OxfordWill]

Hello

Please list the wildly incorrect postulations this book makes about American culture.

You may mention specific lines on specific pages, I will dust off my copy and look them up to see if you are right or not.

thanks

[WhiteShrek]

Hello

Please list the wildly incorrect postulations this book makes about American culture.

You may mention specific lines on specific pages, I will dust off my copy and look them up to see if you are right or not.

thanks

Mate, I respect that you usually put a lot of thoughts into your posts, and tend to be a poster that will reason and debate. From what I recall from the book there were far too many too list. As mentioned by OP many comments were just crass, and there seemed to be something on almost every page.

As a test I dusted off my copy as well. First page opened. p44:

"Western culture (re-inforced by Western TV and movies) teaches that the child must publicly prove his courage and self confidence by rudely callenging all authority figures (including his parents and teachers)"

Maybe it's crass, or just very poor wording, but would you really say American culture teaches you to by rude to parents and teachers?

Where I come from you were taught to respect your parents and teachers. Now, leave out the word "rudely", put in words like "it's acceptable to challenge" "when appropriate" etc or even "what to Thais might be perceived as rude" and there might be a point in there.

The authors lacked the skills to eloquently put their points across on many occasions. If you're trying to make a book about clearing up cultural differences, you yourself need to be very clear in how you articulate them. The above carelessness lack of writing skills was just so common throughout the book.

This was the sort of thing that was just so poor I couldn't pass it to the Mrs. - No way would I accept her or encourage her to rudely challenge my parents, teachers or most other people for that matter. Politely, contructively etc maybe when they've established respect to do so on the right occasion.

This was one example. I recall the book being littered with others as OP mentions

Edited October 10, 2009 by WhiteShrek

[OxfordWill]

It turns out you're right, which is a shame since I dont want anyone to have a good reason not to read this book.

I would prefer if we agreed to put this into the category of "an imperfection" of the book and not "a reason not to encourage people to read it". Your concern over your Mrs challenging your parents are not quite as valid as the section is about children.

On this point I can't come up with a defence for the authors that I am satisfied with, although will still recommend the book to people looking for an intro for previously stated reasons.

Thanks for proving me wrong- I need to re read the western sections with this in mind.