Thai Customs Dept Facing Overhaul

[samran]

Has there been any recent incidents involving travellers carrying laptops etc for their own personal use being hassled by customs staff on arrival? I would not react well to this kind of shakedown.

I carry my laptop in & our of Thailand every other month - have done for years & never had even the slightest hitch or problem with Thai Customs - or any other customs for that matter.

On the subject of the article, well, it sounds like another 'crackdown' to me! This time a 'Customs Crackdown'! It seems like the Govt has a mission to issue a daily 'crackdown' on something or other Yesterday it was tight fitting university uniforms & short skirts & today it's customs - what can we expect tomorrow?

A good start would be a crackdown on the traffic Department who for the right money will issue a drivers licence without even a test . This would ensure that at least potential drivers would have to prove they understand road rules and can actually drive. This may reduce the number of road deaths in Thailand and also reduce the road rage of foreigners who observe the abuse of traffic laws.

I have been in Phuket for three weeks and have already taken a one hour driving course. However, I do not think I can pass the parallel parking aspect of the driving test. I am willing to pay somebody to get a driver's license. Is there a specific person within the traffic department I need to see? Please advise.

Mexico has an excellent system.

In Mexico I have been pulled over numerous times while drivingand running red lights. I would have been classified as "legally" drunk in the U.S. drunk in the U.S. and subjected to thousands of dollars in fines, a night in jail and possibly losing my driver's license for 6 months. There is always one cop that can speak English. They simply tell you what you did wrong and say: "That will be $10 or $20 at times, U.S. And, that's it. You are once again on your way. If that is corruption then it is beneficial.

yeah, please don't be driving anywhere near me or my kids....

[thaicbr]

If only this were true,,but i have zero confidence,.only today i have had a box arrive with fedex from the uk, some bike bits, customs declaraion of 65 pounds, cost of transport/fedex 135 pounds 200 total, even if you do cif, taxes charged ? 6250 baht, i hate them with a passion, its like the police, putting the fox in charge of the chickens,.

Hi Smeere. I think you will find that the problem is Fedex as much as Customs. Get it sent by Royal mail next time.

Allan

[TAWP]

I have been in Phuket for three weeks and have already taken a one hour driving course. However, I do not think I can pass the parallel parking aspect of the driving test. I am willing to pay somebody to get a driver's license. Is there a specific person within the traffic department I need to see? Please advise.

Mexico has an excellent system.

In Mexico I have been pulled over numerous times while drivingand running red lights. I would have been classified as "legally" drunk in the U.S. drunk in the U.S. and subjected to thousands of dollars in fines, a night in jail and possibly losing my driver's license for 6 months. There is always one cop that can speak English. They simply tell you what you did wrong and say: "That will be $10 or $20 at times, U.S. And, that's it. You are once again on your way. If that is corruption then it is beneficial.

yeah, please don't be driving anywhere near me or my kids....

Indeed...I have been in minor and larger accidents [always as passanger] with the vehicle I am in was hit by drunk drivers, often young, driving too fast and without keeping distance or attention on the road. People like Grey11 are exactly the kind that confuses Liberty with 'Recklessness against others' that is infringing on MY rights to not be injured by morons.

[KevinBloodyWilson]

Hoping that this is not just a PR ploy to make it seem like Thailand is doing what other ASEAN countries are doing... but a genuine attempt at reform. Time will tell.

The art of the Thai is the art of deception,. How o make it appear you are doing one thing while doggedly doing something quite different.

Nothing will change for 2 reasons:

1. They see nothing wrong with corruption. All a part of the game.

2. They think everyone but Thais are stupid, so they announce 'initiatives' and believe that is doing enough.

So long as there is something on a bit of official paper somewhere, that is all that is necessary. No need to actually do something, same as the 'road safety' thing being on the 'Agenda'. it is indeed on the agenda, and every few years someone will get it out of the desk drawer, dust it off and say 'Oh yes, I remember that'.

But we continue to live here, which is fine. You can't blame a dog for behaving like a dog, nor a bandit for behaving like a bandit, nor a Thai for behaving like a Thai if that is the way everything they have seen since birth tells them is the right way to behave.

It is not an easy problem to solve and if they start now, it will still take them 3 generations. We all know how slowly Thais work. Might be nice but it isn't going to happen. I believe we are all watching the ultimate decline of Thailand right now.

Kev

[SCARLETIBIS1]

I find it strange that the Government has recognised a problem and chosen to address it - and the majority of responses n this forum are condescending and negative.

When they ignore it, the majority of responses are also condescending and negative.

And if the problem is covered up - guess what?........condescending and negative.

I say good on the Government for publicising it, and trying to address it.

The armchair army on this forum are laughable.

How should they do it right in your faultless, all-knowing and mocking opinions?

Come on, give us the benefit of your great wisdom and experience in tackling a major problem that has taken 5 centuries to establish, so we can eradicate all criminal activities and negative traits within the Kingdom by 01 September 2009.

Perhaps instead of criticising others, you could prepare a comprehensive reort and action plan?

Or are you just parroting catch phrases at email headlines without any actual facts, knowledge or deeper understanding of the myriad underlying issues?

<sigh>

Wake up, and hop off the over crowded bandwagon of arrogance and superiority.

Chefshane,

I was just sitting around waiting for my electricity to go back on for the third time today so that I could use my intenet service which never works so that I could reply to your critical post. Hopefully, it won't take another five centuries for the intelligencia of Thailand to figure out how to get the flucking internet service to work. Perhaps someone here could contact someone from a corrupt country like the USA and ask them how the fluck to do it.

Now, in answer to your question of how to fix everything by Sept 1, 2009 I will give you my outline but first, I would like to address your other concerns. In par 1 you state that , "the government has finally recognized a problem and chose to address it". You then state that in essence no matter if it addresses the problem we foreigners are condescending and negative and if the government doesn't address the problem we are condescending and negative. You are 100% correct. You make a very astute observation.

The reason that you can't win is because in order to be taken seriously, one has to be serious. As an observer of Thailand and it's peculararities for the past four years without ever making a commen on TV I now realize that the government, politicians and most businesses here are inefficient, insincere, disinterested, and corrupt. To those that aren't the banner does not apply.

It is quite unrational to state that we should give Thailand a break as it were since it is "only five centuries old". Only five centuries old and just now out of the blue someone finally has a vision that it is totally morally bankrupt and corrupt. Give me a break. Did some Gennie pop out of a bottle to advise the powers that be that hey guys you are all corrupt and now would be a good time to shape up?

Or could it be that the economy is slowly (or quickly) going down the toilet and the tourist money with it and someone has finally waked up to the realization that it is time to act? Wanna take a poll?

It is genuinely insincere to suggest that all the foreigners on TV are that stupid. Surely you jest.

Let me give you another example albeit a silly one. The police in most countries are supossed to stand for something. It is an institution that is supossed to command respect from its citizens; protectors of the people etc etc. Well, as we all know that doesn't apply here in Thailand.

You state that the, "armchair army on this forum are laughable" but the reality is the corrupt institutions and people who are corrupt are laughable, not those laughing at them. We wouldn't have anything or anybody to laugh at unless it was a reaction to something done. Here is an example. Everyone knows the police have roadblocks to give out tickets for those not wearing helmuts. In the city I live in there is a turn around that motorcyclists use all the time. The police regualarly set up roadblocks about one block away from there. Yet, when the motorcyclists see the cops they make the U-turn and get away but the hilarious part of it all is the cops start yelling at the motorcyclists to come back so they can give them a ticket. And you want to know why we all laugh. It's hilarious that's why. Now, the motorcyclists may be stupid to not wear the helmuts as we all know we risk getting a ticket especially near the end of the month (gee to help pay the rent I muze) but the cops have to be dumber than a box of bricks to think that anyone who makes the U-turn is gonna turn around and go back. And why do they do it? You would NEVER see that happen in the USA or England. The cops would chase you and administer a more serious ticket. But here apparently eveyone knows the likelyhood of getting chased is a mute point.

I could not stop laughing witnessing the cops yelling at these guys to come back. And you ask why we laugh.

Let me give you another example as I stated in another post. I recently went to the UBC office to get TV service and I jokingly asked why can't anyone fix the internet problem and the Thai manager said, "because no company want to pay the minister enough to do it".

I sit here every day asking myself the same question. If my internet never works then I wonder if the internet works for the government and politicians either. Is the sytem that corrupt that nobody cares??? Are they that inept that when a project they are working on goes offline that they don't get pissed off. I would think that there must be some very high level officials whose internet quits working on them at times just like us low life foreigners. Don't they get angry too. What do they do when it happens? Take a nap? I really would like to know.

Now, regarding how to fix thte situation that is a more serious question. In my view it starts with education and a democracy. If you have elected officials you can't have a coup every time you don't like the guy in office. Especially if it's simply because you don't the way a PM cooks his food on TV. You become a laughingstock to the rest of the world when you do that. If a politician is corrupt, indict him and give him a trial but to let the guys with the guns rule is a fatal mistake. Censoring the news media is another. Unless you have something to hide.

Someone once said democracy may not be for everyone but it beats the hel_l out of second place. People in power have the most to lose when there is a democracy and transparency in government. Supression is the key to existence for corrupt governments. Just look around the world: Iran, Iraq, China, North Korea. What do they all seem to have in common??

I could go on all day but my alloted time is up. At the end of the day what I say or any other foreigner says on TV doesn't mean a thing. The only change Thailand or any other corrupt government will listen to is the will of the people. Unless the will of the people of Thailand want change it will never happen. And it's pretty obvious to me that the powers that be are happy to allow the low level corruption only because the money flows to the top so if the cops can make a few bucks on the side so be it. Keeping the soldiers happy allows the generals to be more corrupt. Why piss off the police. And I am sure no one in the military is on the take-impossible to imagine.

So, no I think there is no easy answer by Sept 1, 2009 but keep reading the posts and maybe some of us laughable arm chair quarterbacks can help you improvise a blueprint that you can take to someone to change the direction of this mighty kingdom. There are a lot of great people here. They deserve better. And you can even take all the credit. All I ask when you become the President or PM or whatever is to fix my flucking internet. Okay??? Oh, and to keep prostitution illegal. God forbid prostitution becomes rampant anywhere in Thailand. We wouldn't want to see people start laughing about the hypocrisy of it all if that starts to take place now would we?

[mikemellow]

Has there been any recent incidents involving travellers carrying laptops etc for their own personal use being hassled by customs staff on arrival? I would not react well to this kind of shakedown.

I carry my laptop in & our of Thailand every other month - have done for years & never had even the slightest hitch or problem with Thai Customs - or any other customs for that matter.

On the subject of the article, well, it sounds like another 'crackdown' to me! This time a 'Customs Crackdown'! It seems like the Govt has a mission to issue a daily 'crackdown' on something or other Yesterday it was tight fitting university uniforms & short skirts & today it's customs - what can we expect tomorrow?

In the USA customs has been going into peoples laptops for years, they will even open up cameras and look at pictures-----soon I expect they will be going into ipods and iphones with all the music files being loaded in BKK

[nikster]

I think the article speaks for itself, here are the important parts:

"My vision is for the department to transform from a 'duty collector to a trade facilitator'. The world is moving toward a free-trade environment and we have to adjust to those realities," he said.

"With these reforms, I expect the Customs Department to increase its revenues for the state by around 15 per cent," Pradit said.

In other words: Nothing is gonna change. There'll be less papers. But the corruption will be as rampant as always, and the goal of the customs dept. will be to make money rather than facilitate trade.

[nikster]

In the USA customs has been going into peoples laptops for years, they will even open up cameras and look at pictures-----soon I expect they will be going into ipods and iphones with all the music files being loaded in BKK

Yes unfortunately the US government is in the back pocket of the various industry lobbies and so the customs dept there is wasting its time hunting for unlicensed music and fake Prada bags instead of catching terrorists. It's sad.

[SCARLETIBIS1]

Just to let everyone who was concerned about me and my bike that I was able to find a nice, friendly policeman to watch it for me in case another polieman came by to ticket me. Cost: 100 baht. Ah, I take it all back. This is a great place. You can't do that in countries that have laws.

In-your-face and with whisky OR indirect expensive corruption western style...pick your poison

Hey Tim,

If you are going to use a Western phrase it helps to know the meaning. Let me give you a couple of "IN YOUR FACE THAI STYLE" examples:

Ordering a meal from the menu and when it comes it is the wrong meal. So you send it back and you get the correct meal but when the bill comes they want you to pay for the wrong one. IN YOUR FACE THAI STYLE.

Here is another one for you. When I go to the golf course the Thais pay 400 baht but because I am a farong I get to pay 1000 baht. IN YOUR FACE THAI STYLE.

Here is another one. When you buy a raincoat and the first time you zip it up the zipper breaks and you take it back and explain what happened the owners says too bad you used it. IN YOUR FACE THAI STYLE.

But of course the most amusing to me is when the cops give out the tickets for no helmut and later on they ride the bikes themselves with no helmut or pick their kids up from school with no helmut or later in the day when you are lost and ask a cop for directions and they tell you but you are not wearing a helmut that is: IN YOUR FACE THAI STYLE.

And to the guy who is crying about arrogance and stupidity well I am not sure if those examples are either one or the other or both THAI STYLE.

So, in the future if you are gonna steal the phrase at least know what it means. Have a nice day. I'm gonna go get laid THAI style tonite. At least when they fluck you over you generally get what you pay for. Although I don't go to houses of prostitution because that would be illegal here in Thailand and I would never do anything the is against the law here.

Edited August 21, 2009 by SCARLETIBIS1

[Grey11]

I have been in Phuket for three weeks and have already taken a one hour driving course. However, I do not think I can pass the parallel parking aspect of the driving test. I am willing to pay somebody to get a driver's license. Is there a specific person within the traffic department I need to see? Please advise.

Mexico has an excellent system.

In Mexico I have been pulled over numerous times while drivingand running red lights. I would have been classified as "legally" drunk in the U.S. drunk in the U.S. and subjected to thousands of dollars in fines, a night in jail and possibly losing my driver's license for 6 months. There is always one cop that can speak English. They simply tell you what you did wrong and say: "That will be $10 or $20 at times, U.S. And, that's it. You are once again on your way. If that is corruption then it is beneficial.

yeah, please don't be driving anywhere near me or my kids....

Indeed...I have been in minor and larger accidents [always as passanger] with the vehicle I am in was hit by drunk drivers, often young, driving too fast and without keeping distance or attention on the road. People like Grey11 are exactly the kind that confuses Liberty with 'Recklessness against others' that is infringing on MY rights to not be injured by morons.

You and samran need to loosen up. We are discussing corruption. Some on here like to mention Mexico. Just comapring how corrupt Mexico is with what you people say about Thailand. I intend to pass my driving test. It is just a little tougher on peolple who have been driving for 30, 40 years with the steering wheel on the left and all of a sudden the steering wheel is on the right. I have never gotten a DWI, DUI (that means driving drunk) in my life. You guys are just wound too tight. We just paid a little over $100 for all of our things that are at the port in Bangkok - shipped for the port of L.A. (U.S.A.) - to Phuket. There is much difference in what a Thai pays for customs than what a farang would pay. My wife is Thai and knows how to bargain. Also, in Thailand what you get and how much you pay depends on WHO YOU KNOW. No different than any other country in the world. And, don't worry I will not be driving around drunk and run over you or your children. Geezzz - give me a break!!!!!!

[captnhoy]

I have been in Phuket for three weeks and have already taken a one hour driving course. However, I do not think I can pass the parallel parking aspect of the driving test. I am willing to pay somebody to get a driver's license. Is there a specific person within the traffic department I need to see? Please advise.

Mexico has an excellent system.

In Mexico I have been pulled over numerous times while drivingand running red lights. I would have been classified as "legally" drunk in the U.S. drunk in the U.S. and subjected to thousands of dollars in fines, a night in jail and possibly losing my driver's license for 6 months. There is always one cop that can speak English. They simply tell you what you did wrong and say: "That will be $10 or $20 at times, U.S. And, that's it. You are once again on your way. If that is corruption then it is beneficial.

yeah, please don't be driving anywhere near me or my kids....

Indeed...I have been in minor and larger accidents [always as passanger] with the vehicle I am in was hit by drunk drivers, often young, driving too fast and without keeping distance or attention on the road. People like Grey11 are exactly the kind that confuses Liberty with 'Recklessness against others' that is infringing on MY rights to not be injured by morons.

You and samran need to loosen up. We are discussing corruption. Some on here like to mention Mexico. Just comapring how corrupt Mexico is with what you people say about Thailand. I intend to pass my driving test. It is just a little tougher on peolple who have been driving for 30, 40 years with the steering wheel on the left and all of a sudden the steering wheel is on the right. I have never gotten a DWI, DUI (that means driving drunk) in my life. You guys are just wound too tight. We just paid a little over $100 for all of our things that are at the port in Bangkok - shipped for the port of L.A. (U.S.A.) - to Phuket. There is much difference in what a Thai pays for customs than what a farang would pay. My wife is Thai and knows how to bargain. Also, in Thailand what you get and how much you pay depends on WHO YOU KNOW. No different than any other country in the world. And, don't worry I will not be driving around drunk and run over you or your children. Geezzz - give me a break!!!!!!

I say give US a break. You wrote you'd been stopped several times for driving drunk in Mexico. You've never had a DUI or DWI because you were able to buy your way out of it. In Mexico. It's not a huge leap to imagine you driving drunk in Thailand, with your new license, and now the steering wheel AND the traffic are on the wrong side. You'll no doubt be asking for a break after you maim or kill some innocent person who got in your way.

[wilsongbrown]

I have been in Phuket for three weeks and have already taken a one hour driving course. However, I do not think I can pass the parallel parking aspect of the driving test. I am willing to pay somebody to get a driver's license. Is there a specific person within the traffic department I need to see? Please advise.

Mexico has an excellent system.

In Mexico I have been pulled over numerous times while drivingand running red lights. I would have been classified as "legally" drunk in the U.S. drunk in the U.S. and subjected to thousands of dollars in fines, a night in jail and possibly losing my driver's license for 6 months. There is always one cop that can speak English. They simply tell you what you did wrong and say: "That will be $10 or $20 at times, U.S. And, that's it. You are once again on your way. If that is corruption then it is beneficial.

I did not pass the parallel parking aspect of the driving test as after I'd parked my army jeep in the 6 metre space, the officious official indicated that I had erred as I have a small 'car' and should park it in the 4 metre parking space. I told him I could do it, but did he have an hour or so as this is how long it would take, bearing in mind a 26 year old army jeep doesn't have power steering. (I am sure those of you who've had the pleasure of driving one will understand what I mean). The two of them thought about it a bit and then said, 'we don't think you would be able to park it if you went to somewhere like Phuket Town'. I told them I'd parked it at least 3 or 4 times the previous day with no problem, I just have to pick a bigger spot to park in. They still looked a bit 'oo, what do we do about this then' so I stepped towards them with the keys outstretched and asked them to have a go, in the 4 metre space. They both jumped back like cats on hot coals exclaiming 'mai mai mai'. They thought I was offering them tea money.

I did ask a Thai friend who had family working there what that was all about and he told me NO TEA MONEY. But didn't elaborate on what had been said or done to stop it. Again, if this can be done there, it can be done everywhere.

I would also like to refer back to a previous thread on the superior knowledge of Thai wives, I concur with the general concensus that they know sod all. So the poster who said his wife saying 2k 'pairng' is correct, but where? And when? And most certainly NOT in Phuket for ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY.

As for this poster, running bloody red lights and driving drunk, we have enough to deal with here on the island with the locals doing it without the importing of morons like you, so if parellel parking is you're bete noir, all to the good. Idiot.

[SCARLETIBIS1]

I have been in Phuket for three weeks and have already taken a one hour driving course. However, I do not think I can pass the parallel parking aspect of the driving test. I am willing to pay somebody to get a driver's license. Is there a specific person within the traffic department I need to see? Please advise.

Mexico has an excellent system.

In Mexico I have been pulled over numerous times while drivingand running red lights. I would have been classified as "legally" drunk in the U.S. drunk in the U.S. and subjected to thousands of dollars in fines, a night in jail and possibly losing my driver's license for 6 months. There is always one cop that can speak English. They simply tell you what you did wrong and say: "That will be $10 or $20 at times, U.S. And, that's it. You are once again on your way. If that is corruption then it is beneficial.

yeah, please don't be driving anywhere near me or my kids....

Indeed...I have been in minor and larger accidents [always as passanger] with the vehicle I am in was hit by drunk drivers, often young, driving too fast and without keeping distance or attention on the road. People like Grey11 are exactly the kind that confuses Liberty with 'Recklessness against others' that is infringing on MY rights to not be injured by morons.

Jesus, and I thought Thai drivers were drunken morons. My apologies to all those Thais who drive drunk and run the red lights and ride on the sidewalks. You have all found a new hero here on TV.

[samran]

You and samran need to loosen up. We are discussing corruption. Some on here like to mention Mexico. Just comapring how corrupt Mexico is with what you people say about Thailand. I intend to pass my driving test. It is just a little tougher on peolple who have been driving for 30, 40 years with the steering wheel on the left and all of a sudden the steering wheel is on the right. I have never gotten a DWI, DUI (that means driving drunk) in my life. You guys are just wound too tight. We just paid a little over $100 for all of our things that are at the port in Bangkok - shipped for the port of L.A. (U.S.A.) - to Phuket. There is much difference in what a Thai pays for customs than what a farang would pay. My wife is Thai and knows how to bargain. Also, in Thailand what you get and how much you pay depends on WHO YOU KNOW. No different than any other country in the world. And, don't worry I will not be driving around drunk and run over you or your children. Geezzz - give me a break!!!!!!

You've never had a DWI and DUI conviction. But you admitted to doing so?

just like no thai driver has ever been caught speeding or under the influence. For the same reasons as well.

[spidermike007]

It would seem to me that if any changes are to happen at the customs department, it would have to be forced upon thailand by

some outside forces like the WTA, or the World Bank, or the UN. Maybe some embarrassment over an overseas PR campaign,

that causes Thailand great embarrassment? If it is true that the top customs guys pay as much as 4 million baht for their posts,

they must know how secure that position is. I have never heard of anyone fighting customs and winning. It is like a blank check.

If Thailand is serious about tackling corruption (they are the least serious nation in SE Asia, with the exception of Burma, Cambodia,

and the Philippines) they have to start arresting these clowns, imposing fines into the millions of baht, and imposing sentences

at 10 years of longer. Only then, will the customs buffoons take it seriously.

[wordchild]

I think there is a chance that things change pretty fundamentaly in this country over the next few years and I hope for the better, the key is the resolution of the political situation ,possibly through some sort of deal with Thaksin.We then get fresh elections that can return a government with a mandate. I hope that the democrats end up in a position to lead that government but i admit that looks less likely than 3/4 months ago. As a businessman I share the view that the right approach with politicians is at least mild cynicism but from time to time in a countrys history one comes along who is a real gamechanger I think Abhisit maybe one such.I think the guy is a genuine and a real reformer he knows that there is much wrong with the country and is determined to change it. He has said on numerous occasions both before he was in power and after, that one of the key things that holds Thailand back is lack of openness and poor governance in many of the organs of state. while he has not spelt it out it is clear that the police and customs are high on his list. this proposed customs reform is pure Abhisit it is quite subtle but at the same time it fundamentaly undermines the power of customs officers . it takes away their ability to threaten with huge fines knowing that if you went to court the court had no flexibility and could only impose a higher fine than the customs .It shifts power from customs to the courts.Sadly I think resolution of the political crisis is crucial to all this and the events of the last few days around the appointment of a new police chief are not helpful signposts on this. This is a fight Abhisit needs to win.

Edited August 22, 2009 by wordchild

[Oliver Reed]

Hey Tim,

If you are going to use a Western phrase it helps to know the meaning. Let me give you a couple of "IN YOUR FACE THAI STYLE" examples:

Ordering a meal from the menu and when it comes it is the wrong meal. So you send it back and you get the correct meal but when the bill comes they want you to pay for the wrong one. IN YOUR FACE THAI STYLE.

Here is another one for you. When I go to the golf course the Thais pay 400 baht but because I am a farong I get to pay 1000 baht. IN YOUR FACE THAI STYLE.

Here is another one. When you buy a raincoat and the first time you zip it up the zipper breaks and you take it back and explain what happened the owners says too bad you used it. IN YOUR FACE THAI STYLE.

But of course the most amusing to me is when the cops give out the tickets for no helmut and later on they ride the bikes themselves with no helmut or pick their kids up from school with no helmut or later in the day when you are lost and ask a cop for directions and they tell you but you are not wearing a helmut that is: IN YOUR FACE THAI STYLE.

And to the guy who is crying about arrogance and stupidity well I am not sure if those examples are either one or the other or both THAI STYLE.

So, in the future if you are gonna steal the phrase at least know what it means. Have a nice day. I'm gonna go get laid THAI style tonite. At least when they fluck you over you generally get what you pay for. Although I don't go to houses of prostitution because that would be illegal here in Thailand and I would never do anything the is against the law here.

Freaking hilarious, but sadly, oh so true...Ive pretty much had all these IN YOUR FACE THAI STYLE scenarios played out on me...numerous times with the wrong food order...heres another...Jump in a taxi and ask to go to a certain place,a shopping mall for example, only to be taken to some dodgy brothel or jewellery shop miles out of the way, that you never even asked for, then when you dont get out, you get charged the full fee, for ending up even further away from where you wanted to go, or just get the fee added on if he carries on back to the original destination requested, of course you could always risk a good punch up if you protest and refuse to pay...IN YOUR FACE THAI STYLE

[KevinBloodyWilson]

I find it strange that the Government has recognised a problem and chosen to address it - and the majority of responses n this forum are condescending and negative.

When they ignore it, the majority of responses are also condescending and negative.

And if the problem is covered up - guess what?........condescending and negative.

I say good on the Government for publicising it, and trying to address it.

The armchair army on this forum are laughable.

How should they do it right in your faultless, all-knowing and mocking opinions?

Come on, give us the benefit of your great wisdom and experience in tackling a major problem that has taken 5 centuries to establish, so we can eradicate all criminal activities and negative traits within the Kingdom by 01 September 2009.

Perhaps instead of criticising others, you could prepare a comprehensive reort and action plan?

Or are you just parroting catch phrases at email headlines without any actual facts, knowledge or deeper understanding of the myriad underlying issues?

<sigh>

Wake up, and hop off the over crowded bandwagon of arrogance and superiority.

Chefshane,

I was just sitting around waiting for my electricity to go back on for the third time today so that I could use my intenet service which never works so that I could reply to your critical post. Hopefully, it won't take another five centuries for the intelligencia of Thailand to figure out how to get the flucking internet service to work. Perhaps someone here could contact someone from a corrupt country like the USA and ask them how the fluck to do it.

Now, in answer to your question of how to fix everything by Sept 1, 2009 I will give you my outline but first, I would like to address your other concerns. In par 1 you state that , "the government has finally recognized a problem and chose to address it". You then state that in essence no matter if it addresses the problem we foreigners are condescending and negative and if the government doesn't address the problem we are condescending and negative. You are 100% correct. You make a very astute observation.

The reason that you can't win is because in order to be taken seriously, one has to be serious. As an observer of Thailand and it's peculararities for the past four years without ever making a commen on TV I now realize that the government, politicians and most businesses here are inefficient, insincere, disinterested, and corrupt. To those that aren't the banner does not apply.

It is quite unrational to state that we should give Thailand a break as it were since it is "only five centuries old". Only five centuries old and just now out of the blue someone finally has a vision that it is totally morally bankrupt and corrupt. Give me a break. Did some Gennie pop out of a bottle to advise the powers that be that hey guys you are all corrupt and now would be a good time to shape up?

Or could it be that the economy is slowly (or quickly) going down the toilet and the tourist money with it and someone has finally waked up to the realization that it is time to act? Wanna take a poll?

It is genuinely insincere to suggest that all the foreigners on TV are that stupid. Surely you jest.

Let me give you another example albeit a silly one. The police in most countries are supossed to stand for something. It is an institution that is supossed to command respect from its citizens; protectors of the people etc etc. Well, as we all know that doesn't apply here in Thailand.

You state that the, "armchair army on this forum are laughable" but the reality is the corrupt institutions and people who are corrupt are laughable, not those laughing at them. We wouldn't have anything or anybody to laugh at unless it was a reaction to something done. Here is an example. Everyone knows the police have roadblocks to give out tickets for those not wearing helmuts. In the city I live in there is a turn around that motorcyclists use all the time. The police regualarly set up roadblocks about one block away from there. Yet, when the motorcyclists see the cops they make the U-turn and get away but the hilarious part of it all is the cops start yelling at the motorcyclists to come back so they can give them a ticket. And you want to know why we all laugh. It's hilarious that's why. Now, the motorcyclists may be stupid to not wear the helmuts as we all know we risk getting a ticket especially near the end of the month (gee to help pay the rent I muze) but the cops have to be dumber than a box of bricks to think that anyone who makes the U-turn is gonna turn around and go back. And why do they do it? You would NEVER see that happen in the USA or England. The cops would chase you and administer a more serious ticket. But here apparently eveyone knows the likelyhood of getting chased is a mute point.

I could not stop laughing witnessing the cops yelling at these guys to come back. And you ask why we laugh.

Let me give you another example as I stated in another post. I recently went to the UBC office to get TV service and I jokingly asked why can't anyone fix the internet problem and the Thai manager said, "because no company want to pay the minister enough to do it".

I sit here every day asking myself the same question. If my internet never works then I wonder if the internet works for the government and politicians either. Is the sytem that corrupt that nobody cares??? Are they that inept that when a project they are working on goes offline that they don't get pissed off. I would think that there must be some very high level officials whose internet quits working on them at times just like us low life foreigners. Don't they get angry too. What do they do when it happens? Take a nap? I really would like to know.

Now, regarding how to fix thte situation that is a more serious question. In my view it starts with education and a democracy. If you have elected officials you can't have a coup every time you don't like the guy in office. Especially if it's simply because you don't the way a PM cooks his food on TV. You become a laughingstock to the rest of the world when you do that. If a politician is corrupt, indict him and give him a trial but to let the guys with the guns rule is a fatal mistake. Censoring the news media is another. Unless you have something to hide.

Someone once said democracy may not be for everyone but it beats the hel_l out of second place. People in power have the most to lose when there is a democracy and transparency in government. Supression is the key to existence for corrupt governments. Just look around the world: Iran, Iraq, China, North Korea. What do they all seem to have in common??

I could go on all day but my alloted time is up. At the end of the day what I say or any other foreigner says on TV doesn't mean a thing. The only change Thailand or any other corrupt government will listen to is the will of the people. Unless the will of the people of Thailand want change it will never happen. And it's pretty obvious to me that the powers that be are happy to allow the low level corruption only because the money flows to the top so if the cops can make a few bucks on the side so be it. Keeping the soldiers happy allows the generals to be more corrupt. Why piss off the police. And I am sure no one in the military is on the take-impossible to imagine.

So, no I think there is no easy answer by Sept 1, 2009 but keep reading the posts and maybe some of us laughable arm chair quarterbacks can help you improvise a blueprint that you can take to someone to change the direction of this mighty kingdom. There are a lot of great people here. They deserve better. And you can even take all the credit. All I ask when you become the President or PM or whatever is to fix my flucking internet. Okay??? Oh, and to keep prostitution illegal. God forbid prostitution becomes rampant anywhere in Thailand. We wouldn't want to see people start laughing about the hypocrisy of it all if that starts to take place now would we?

Well said.

[McFarang]

If only this were true,,but i have zero confidence,.only today i have had a box arrive with fedex from the uk, some bike bits, customs declaraion of 65 pounds, cost of transport/fedex 135 pounds 200 total, even if you do cif, taxes charged ? 6250 baht, i hate them with a passion, its like the police, putting the fox in charge of the chickens,.

Hi Smeere. I think you will find that the problem is Fedex as much as Customs. Get it sent by Royal mail next time.

Allan

I agree the courier companies are just as bad wanting under the counter payment UPS has to be the worst of all I even visited a UPS office in Bangkok trying to get some fishing shirts & equipment cleared. Pay extra for courier 2 days from the US then up to two weeks in Customs with crazy warehose rental fees and 27% Duty as a shirt is classed as a Luxury Item ????.

Now I just have things delivered to friends who bring them into Angola and I just take them from here to Thailand sometimes its cheaper to send to Singapore and fly down and collect.

When I moved house from Dubai to Phuket 4 years ago Customs (In BKK) wouldn't clear my Furniture although all the paperwork was done fees paid etc by professional moving firm with out a $1000 TEA MONEY payment, which I paid other wise I would have been sleeping on the floor or renting.

I work in some strange places West Africa, Middle East , Yemen,FSU and they all have Customs & Police problems but you would expect better from a supposedly forward thinking Nation like Thailand that is =53 in the table of most currupt countries not like Angola which is in the Top 5.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/gov_cor-...ment-corruption

[spidermike007]

The question is whether or not a bill like this could ever get passed here. It does not appear that Thailand is ready,

willing or able to tackle corruption in any real, and sustainable level. They have to start by imposing real fines, and

real prison sentences. Like 500,000 baht, and 10 years! Abhisit has good intentions, but I am not sure he can get

past the extraordinary amount of fools in office here.

[spidermike007]

I find it strange that the Government has recognised a problem and chosen to address it - and the majority of responses n this forum are condescending and negative.

When they ignore it, the majority of responses are also condescending and negative.

And if the problem is covered up - guess what?........condescending and negative.

I say good on the Government for publicising it, and trying to address it.

The armchair army on this forum are laughable.

How should they do it right in your faultless, all-knowing and mocking opinions?

Come on, give us the benefit of your great wisdom and experience in tackling a major problem that has taken 5 centuries to establish, so we can eradicate all criminal activities and negative traits within the Kingdom by 01 September 2009.

Perhaps instead of criticising others, you could prepare a comprehensive reort and action plan?

Or are you just parroting catch phrases at email headlines without any actual facts, knowledge or deeper understanding of the myriad underlying issues?

<sigh>

Wake up, and hop off the over crowded bandwagon of arrogance and superiority.

Chefshane,

I was just sitting around waiting for my electricity to go back on for the third time today so that I could use my intenet service which never works so that I could reply to your critical post. Hopefully, it won't take another five centuries for the intelligencia of Thailand to figure out how to get the flucking internet service to work. Perhaps someone here could contact someone from a corrupt country like the USA and ask them how the fluck to do it.

Now, in answer to your question of how to fix everything by Sept 1, 2009 I will give you my outline but first, I would like to address your other concerns. In par 1 you state that , "the government has finally recognized a problem and chose to address it". You then state that in essence no matter if it addresses the problem we foreigners are condescending and negative and if the government doesn't address the problem we are condescending and negative. You are 100% correct. You make a very astute observation.

The reason that you can't win is because in order to be taken seriously, one has to be serious. As an observer of Thailand and it's peculararities for the past four years without ever making a commen on TV I now realize that the government, politicians and most businesses here are inefficient, insincere, disinterested, and corrupt. To those that aren't the banner does not apply.

It is quite unrational to state that we should give Thailand a break as it were since it is "only five centuries old". Only five centuries old and just now out of the blue someone finally has a vision that it is totally morally bankrupt and corrupt. Give me a break. Did some Gennie pop out of a bottle to advise the powers that be that hey guys you are all corrupt and now would be a good time to shape up?

Or could it be that the economy is slowly (or quickly) going down the toilet and the tourist money with it and someone has finally waked up to the realization that it is time to act? Wanna take a poll?

It is genuinely insincere to suggest that all the foreigners on TV are that stupid. Surely you jest.

Let me give you another example albeit a silly one. The police in most countries are supossed to stand for something. It is an institution that is supossed to command respect from its citizens; protectors of the people etc etc. Well, as we all know that doesn't apply here in Thailand.

You state that the, "armchair army on this forum are laughable" but the reality is the corrupt institutions and people who are corrupt are laughable, not those laughing at them. We wouldn't have anything or anybody to laugh at unless it was a reaction to something done. Here is an example. Everyone knows the police have roadblocks to give out tickets for those not wearing helmuts. In the city I live in there is a turn around that motorcyclists use all the time. The police regualarly set up roadblocks about one block away from there. Yet, when the motorcyclists see the cops they make the U-turn and get away but the hilarious part of it all is the cops start yelling at the motorcyclists to come back so they can give them a ticket. And you want to know why we all laugh. It's hilarious that's why. Now, the motorcyclists may be stupid to not wear the helmuts as we all know we risk getting a ticket especially near the end of the month (gee to help pay the rent I muze) but the cops have to be dumber than a box of bricks to think that anyone who makes the U-turn is gonna turn around and go back. And why do they do it? You would NEVER see that happen in the USA or England. The cops would chase you and administer a more serious ticket. But here apparently eveyone knows the likelyhood of getting chased is a mute point.

I could not stop laughing witnessing the cops yelling at these guys to come back. And you ask why we laugh.

Let me give you another example as I stated in another post. I recently went to the UBC office to get TV service and I jokingly asked why can't anyone fix the internet problem and the Thai manager said, "because no company want to pay the minister enough to do it".

I sit here every day asking myself the same question. If my internet never works then I wonder if the internet works for the government and politicians either. Is the sytem that corrupt that nobody cares??? Are they that inept that when a project they are working on goes offline that they don't get pissed off. I would think that there must be some very high level officials whose internet quits working on them at times just like us low life foreigners. Don't they get angry too. What do they do when it happens? Take a nap? I really would like to know.

Now, regarding how to fix thte situation that is a more serious question. In my view it starts with education and a democracy. If you have elected officials you can't have a coup every time you don't like the guy in office. Especially if it's simply because you don't the way a PM cooks his food on TV. You become a laughingstock to the rest of the world when you do that. If a politician is corrupt, indict him and give him a trial but to let the guys with the guns rule is a fatal mistake. Censoring the news media is another. Unless you have something to hide.

Someone once said democracy may not be for everyone but it beats the hel_l out of second place. People in power have the most to lose when there is a democracy and transparency in government. Supression is the key to existence for corrupt governments. Just look around the world: Iran, Iraq, China, North Korea. What do they all seem to have in common??

I could go on all day but my alloted time is up. At the end of the day what I say or any other foreigner says on TV doesn't mean a thing. The only change Thailand or any other corrupt government will listen to is the will of the people. Unless the will of the people of Thailand want change it will never happen. And it's pretty obvious to me that the powers that be are happy to allow the low level corruption only because the money flows to the top so if the cops can make a few bucks on the side so be it. Keeping the soldiers happy allows the generals to be more corrupt. Why piss off the police. And I am sure no one in the military is on the take-impossible to imagine.

So, no I think there is no easy answer by Sept 1, 2009 but keep reading the posts and maybe some of us laughable arm chair quarterbacks can help you improvise a blueprint that you can take to someone to change the direction of this mighty kingdom. There are a lot of great people here. They deserve better. And you can even take all the credit. All I ask when you become the President or PM or whatever is to fix my flucking internet. Okay??? Oh, and to keep prostitution illegal. God forbid prostitution becomes rampant anywhere in Thailand. We wouldn't want to see people start laughing about the hypocrisy of it all if that starts to take place now would we?

Well said.

I applaud the post by Kevinbloodywilson. well said, and well thought out. We must ignore the ignorant gripes like the one from Chafshane. He does not realize that to complain

is natural. Should we all just grin and bear it? If we do not speak out, who will? Is this not our right, or would you prefer a fascist state, where comments are not welcome? To

complain does not mean we do not love Thailand. We are merely voicing our concerns. For a government leader to state that they are going to do something about something

means nothing to any of us. We want action, and not just words. Words are very cheap here, and they mean NOTHING!