Switch From Honda Cbr150 To Tiger Boxer Rs250

[xobm]

the boxer is a 250 and aces a 250 ninja in the hilly umphang ....

With respect, given two riders of equal weight and equal ability there is no way a Boxer 250RS will keep up with a Ninja 250R. The Ninja 250R is a fuel injected twin that cranks out 33 Hp stock and redlines at ~14000RPM. I don't know the horsepower of the single cylinder carburated Boxer 250RS and it doesn't have a tach, so who knows what the redline is, but I'm guessing maybe 8 or 9 thousand RPM and perhaps 20-25 horsepower?

The Tiger Boxer 250RS is an economical small all-arounder with good torque down low but no top end while the Ninja 250R is a small but potent little sport bike that is a dog in lower revs but comes alive in the higher revs. Dave probably weighs about twice what you do xobm which makes a comparison of the two bikes quite difficult. Apples and Oranges really in my humble opinion...

Ride On!

Tony

Tony i am sorry to say but i had luggage and dave didn't ,that made up for the 10 kg weight difference...in the maesot- umphang-maesot stretch i did wait up 1 hr!!! for the ninja 250 R ...it just doesn't deliver the power or that bike has another fault .

On the stretch between maesot - tak i did wait another 20 minutes ....

No nonsense no fairytales .... just the truth,Dave posted on another forum that the ninja simply did not deliver the power/torque needed for the umphang hilly area.

i know you had a ninja 250 before too , but what i post here is how it was.

xobm

Edited December 1, 2009 by xobm

[BigBikeBKK]

Tony i am sorry to say but i had luggage and dave didn't ,that made up for the 10 kg weight difference...in the maesot- umphang-maesot stretch i did wait up 1 hr!!! for the ninja 250 R ...it just doesn't deliver the power or that bike has another fault .

On the stretch between maesot - tak i did wait another 20 minutes ....

No nonsense no fairytales .... just the truth,Dave posted on another forum that the ninja simply did not deliver the power/torque needed for the umphang hilly area.

i know you had a ninja 250 before too , but what i post here is how it was.

xobm

Cheers xobm,

Then unless there is something seriously wrong with Dave's Ninjette, this is, as is often the case, a matter of a difference in rider skills and not bike performance. I just read that the Boxer 250RS puts out only 18 Hp. The Ninja 250R cranks out a modest 33...

Even if the bikes had equal power and equal weight, the sport bike geometry and superior suspension of the Ninja 250R should still give it a performance edge over the Boxer 250RS.

I really don't want this to be a pissing match- I know you love your Boxer 250RS and that's ALL that matters. Cheap reliable comfortable bike for half the price of the Kwacker. Nothing wrong with that! But let's be realistic when comparing it's performance to the Kawasaki Ninja 250R. Using your ride with Dave as a basis for comparison of the two bikes does a real disservice to the Ninjette... I'm just sayin'

Happy Trails!

Tony

[xobm]

Tony i am sorry to say but i had luggage and dave didn't ,that made up for the 10 kg weight difference...in the maesot- umphang-maesot stretch i did wait up 1 hr!!! for the ninja 250 R ...it just doesn't deliver the power or that bike has another fault .

On the stretch between maesot - tak i did wait another 20 minutes ....

No nonsense no fairytales .... just the truth,Dave posted on another forum that the ninja simply did not deliver the power/torque needed for the umphang hilly area.

i know you had a ninja 250 before too , but what i post here is how it was.

xobm

Cheers xobm,

Then unless there is something seriously wrong with Dave's Ninjette, this is, as is often the case, a matter of a difference in rider skills and not bike performance. I just read that the Boxer 250RS puts out only 18 Hp. The Ninja 250R cranks out a modest 33...

Even if the bikes had equal power and equal weight, the sport bike geometry and superior suspension of the Ninja 250R should still give it a performance edge over the Boxer 250RS.

I really don't want this to be a pissing match- I know you love your Boxer 250RS and that's ALL that matters. Cheap reliable comfortable bike for half the price of the Kwacker. Nothing wrong with that! But let's be realistic when comparing it's performance to the Kawasaki Ninja 250R. Using your ride with Dave as a basis for comparison of the two bikes does a real disservice to the Ninjette... I'm just sayin'

Happy Trails!

Tony

Hi tony...i think i would rather say i "like" my boxer "very much" ...find attached what i would "love" to ride but i guess i will never be able to do that in thailand...

happy trails,

xobm

[BigBikeBKK]

Hi tony...i think i would rather say i "like" my boxer "very much" ...find attached what i would "love" to ride but i guess i will never be able to do that in thailand...

happy trails,

xobm

Sweet KTM! Never say never! I know a guy here in Bangkok who imports KTMs and somehow even manages to get them registered. Not cheap, but then true love never is!

[LivinLOS]

Theres a webpage made up claiming to be the 'official KTM importer' and a Phuket based address but no sign of the claimed dealership they were starting and its been years since I first saw it.

[xobm]

Theres a webpage made up claiming to be the 'official KTM importer' and a Phuket based address but no sign of the claimed dealership they were starting and its been years since I first saw it.

hi livinlos

Yes, i contacted the guy ...i think his name was ronnie ...he replied ,promised me the prices as they become available and never heard again...i tried a couple of month ago and than no reply....I am about to go to Austria maybe,on the way back, i will take the 990 superduke on the plane with (in handluggage )

xobm

[BigBikeBKK]

Theres a webpage made up claiming to be the 'official KTM importer' and a Phuket based address but no sign of the claimed dealership they were starting and its been years since I first saw it.

hi livinlos

Yes, i contacted the guy ...i think his name was ronnie ...he replied ,promised me the prices as they become available and never heard again...i tried a couple of month ago and than no reply....I am about to go to Austria maybe,on the way back, i will take the 990 superduke on the plane with (in handluggage )

xobm

Ha ha! Maybe you just start with the wheels this trip, engine next, frame after that...

Anyway, recommend you talk to Khun Boy at Chicane as they have been importing new KTMs and even manage to get them registered. The new KTM's must all be EURO III compliant, yes? I get the impression, looking at the massive exhausts on new KTM's, that they are able to pass Thai emissions without too much trouble.

Ride On!

[dave_boo]

Hi Dave

I have ridden both bikes too and what you say is quite far off.I think you are completely biased to the Cbr 150- as you are owning one , although i never seen you driving it anymore.( that said, i own a boxer and had about 10 bigger bikes before).For me a good and valued comparism between bikes have to be side by side in the same day or so....but you had a comparism Tiger Boxer 250 with a Ninja 250 R!!! You gotta really ask yourself if you remember actually the cbr150's performance??

Considering all those kilometers I put on the CBR and the various conditions I've rode it in allows me a fairly good opinion of the bikes capabilities.

Firstly let me remind you that the boxer you tested was just on a flat road with a few light curves...no town or city traffic - distance you done on the boxer was 60km.Not even a little climb... nothing.We didn't even go at fullspeed at this duration. So how come you wish to evaluate on that?If i don't know, i don't claim that i do ,and make some nice looking story in favor to the bike i own !!! Remember when driven in town( ayutthaya) area you where on your Ninja that day. How do i remember? You almost had an accident on it!

Secondly, the Boxer you drive had different sprocket on the rear and the clutch was a bit more difficult to dose but has been rectified later( and i told you about those mods).In town or driving off from stop was not as easiy as someone may wish. Thirdly, the Boxer you drove had a topbox filled with stuff ...i'd say about 10kg as some tools and water was in there and you knew that too.More weight means a little harder work for the bike.

Au contraire; there were enough spots threading through traffic to accurately gauge the Boxer's performance. And I will reaffirm what I stated earlier; there's no way that even a 250cc Boxer will keep up with a CBR in traffic. You mention not meeting any hills; that's true, but if you read above I did state that the Boxer would destroy the CBR in such conditions; this is based directly on my rides on both bikes.

Even when I was riding flat out (and attempting to twist the throttle even further) the bike was only going some 135 kph indicated--if I was drifting. Out in an open lane you can take 5 or so off that. My CBR will do an indicated 140+ slightly tucked in--no drifting required.

None the less, if the bike I had been riding had stock gearing it definitely would have been slower than a CBR on the top end. Would it have been as quick off the line as a CBR? I won't speculate--even if there is no additional weight from tool kits/water/whatever since I have not rode a Boxer in that condition.

And I remember almost running into the back of the truck....I was turned around trying to figure out where the two Boxers were.

You are dam_n right the hilly area the boxer will ace out the Cbr easily as much as it will ace out the Ninja 250 on umphang hills and that wasn't even on driving at the max...but it should underline how far behind the power delivery in mid/lower rpms actually are....on the ninja and the cbr150( and i am not talking tuned stuff)

I do understand this power delivering issue for an CBR 150 ...but for the 250 Ninja it is rather embarassing .

As I stated directly to MBOX and on his forum; it was the skill of the rider. Had I had more torque would the distance between me and him been less? Most likely; but there would still have been a gap between us. I unfortunately don't get much seat time due to my work schedule; MBOX rides daily(?) and has many more years in the saddle than I. Add in one bad experience already on that bike and I was loathe to push my luck on unfamiliar roads.

I know we all have different reasons for driving bikes and enjoy different roads....i like curved , hilly roads...thats where the Boxer delivers outstandingly. But the steeper and sharper the curves the better for the boxer really- if you have a climb and a wide curve i am sure the ninja will be able to hold up or may even be faster ( i know the 650 ninja does go faster ) Downtown the boxer is great too, narrow and power delivering remember the boxer gives the power already on lower rpms so this is very suitable for city downtown driving, a good reason for the police to have them. I never really liked flat long straights... and thats where the boxer's weakness is , it has 5 gears and the topspeed is about 135km/h but if winds are present a 120km/h is realistic. This where the ninja is better ( it got to be good somewhere right? ) and also to mention the CBR150 will mostlikely match the Boxer's speed but may do a little more. To answer wjmark's question , the cbr 150 may do a bit more downhill or on the flat stright road ...due to the cbr's aerodynamics and 6th gear on the cbr 150. The whole scenario will switch when you get into the first climbs...The CBR may also do better on the racetrack than the boxer 250RS, the boxer is an allrounder bike and delivers good in most situation. I think Thaicbr's evalutaion somewhere here was a very accurate one(he drove the boxer from bkk to khon kaen...long enough distance and road variety to make an evaloation i'd say)...he was happy with most of it except the seat, he sat on the 1st generation seat , this has been changed since march/april 2009 and the seat is very good...good enough to do 1000km/day on it

You wrote further:"And the power differential isn't as large as you'd think for an extra 100cc...no matter where the power comes on." i have to laugh over this , the boxer is a 250 and aces a 250 ninja in the hilly umphang ....you got to tell me either the ninja is a pisspoor on delivering power or the memories since you driven your cbr are better than reality...

One thing i always like when posters here come up with technical detail hp , torque and comprassion ratio ....it is reality that counts not just whats written on a piece of paper...and not to forget, most important part of a bike is the one who drives it.

happy trails,

xobm

With respect, given two riders of equal weight and equal ability there is no way a Boxer 250RS will keep up with a Ninja 250R. The Ninja 250R is a fuel injected twin that cranks out 33 Hp stock and redlines at ~14000RPM. I don't know the horsepower of the single cylinder carburated Boxer 250RS and it doesn't have a tach, so who knows what the redline is, but I'm guessing maybe 8 or 9 thousand RPM and perhaps 20-25 horsepower?

The Tiger Boxer 250RS is an economical small all-arounder with good torque down low but no top end while the Ninja 250R is a small but potent little sport bike that is a dog in lower revs but comes alive in the higher revs. Dave probably weighs about twice what you do xobm which makes a comparison of the two bikes quite difficult. Apples and Oranges really in my humble opinion...

Ride On!

Tony

See above for my explaination of the Umphang run. Actually we weigh dam_n near (if xobm is who I think he is) as I.

I don't know where you found the 18hp for the Boxer; but if true (which having rode it doesn't feel like it would be that low) it settles the question about which is quicker....

As I've said in other threads; I'm very supportive of Tiger. Fighting the good fight against the industry giants is such a hero story that it's hard not to root for them. However, someone asked a question. There was no malice but rather simple fact stated....

[xobm]

Hi Dave

I have ridden both bikes too and what you say is quite far off.I think you are completely biased to the Cbr 150- as you are owning one , although i never seen you driving it anymore.( that said, i own a boxer and had about 10 bigger bikes before).For me a good and valued comparism between bikes have to be side by side in the same day or so....but you had a comparism Tiger Boxer 250 with a Ninja 250 R!!! You gotta really ask yourself if you remember actually the cbr150's performance??

Considering all those kilometers I put on the CBR and the various conditions I've rode it in allows me a fairly good opinion of the bikes capabilities.

Yes, you drove the cbr in various conditions...did you do that on the Boxer??? Your comparism was with the Ninja 250 to the Boxer that day. I merely meant that a simple 60 km was simply not enough to evaluate....i did more than that on ninja 250 and do not dare to make an evaluation on it, except that the seat is crap on the ninjette.

Firstly let me remind you that the boxer you tested was just on a flat road with a few light curves...no town or city traffic - distance you done on the boxer was 60km.Not even a little climb... nothing.We didn't even go at fullspeed at this duration. So how come you wish to evaluate on that?If i don't know, i don't claim that i do ,and make some nice looking story in favor to the bike i own !!! Remember when driven in town( ayutthaya) area you where on your Ninja that day. How do i remember? You almost had an accident on it!

Secondly, the Boxer you drive had different sprocket on the rear and the clutch was a bit more difficult to dose but has been rectified later( and i told you about those mods).In town or driving off from stop was not as easiy as someone may wish. Thirdly, the Boxer you drove had a topbox filled with stuff ...i'd say about 10kg as some tools and water was in there and you knew that too.More weight means a little harder work for the bike.

Au contraire; there were enough spots threading through traffic to accurately gauge the Boxer's performance. And I will reaffirm what I stated earlier; there's no way that even a 250cc Boxer will keep up with a CBR in traffic. You mention not meeting any hills; that's true, but if you read above I did state that the Boxer would destroy the CBR in such conditions; this is based directly on my rides on both bikes.

As mentioned before, the only place where traffic actually was is the place you rode on the Ninja. So a 60km's flat and hardly any"real" traffic situation does to my opinion not really resemble a real traffic nor will it do good of basing an evaluation on it.

You should also know where the strength is of the Boxer=low/mid rpms...which directly results in favor for the Boxer traffic capabilities....i am not going to race into traffic with you on a CBR- it would actually be too dangerous and a silly stunt. hel_l, even a Retro 110C would be competitive in traffic for that matter

Even when I was riding flat out (and attempting to twist the throttle even further) the bike was only going some 135 kph indicated--if I was drifting. Out in an open lane you can take 5 or so off that. My CBR will do an indicated 140+ slightly tucked in--no drifting required.

As i previously pointed out , the cbr may be having a higher topspeed on the flat or downhill (but actually this gap may be a tiny little ,for me not even worth to mention), a 6th gear & better aerodynamic sitting is result of this.An upright sitting position on Bikes will, in most cases & compared to sportsbikes, be the slower Bike. But we are talking topspeed here...which A.) is never really driven on regular base and B.) i believe much more important to the topspeed is how long does it take to reach an decent speed and the amount of power to overtake being delivered not only on low but also in higher speeds.

None the less, if the bike I had been riding had stock gearing it definitely would have been slower than a CBR on the top end. Would it have been as quick off the line as a CBR? I won't speculate--even if there is no additional weight from tool kits/water/whatever since I have not rode a Boxer in that condition.

The reason why the rear sprocket was exchanged is to have the bike work on lower rpm's while on comfy cruising speed(on a boxer a comfortable cruising speed is 115-120km/h). The topspeed gained with the sprocket change is hard to see(if any) , but the normally lost power/torque in such exchange is also hard to sense.

And I remember almost running into the back of the truck....I was turned around trying to figure out where the two Boxers were.

Honestly, traffic situation didn't allow to go faster that particular time (obviously in town) so both Boxers went deliberately slower.... there was also a confusion over directions so a lookout on road rather than blasting off was thought to be better.

As sidenote , its a safer practice when driving and checking the rear using the rear view mirror rather than turning around!

You are dam_n right the hilly area the boxer will ace out the Cbr easily as much as it will ace out the Ninja 250 on umphang hills and that wasn't even on driving at the max...but it should underline how far behind the power delivery in mid/lower rpms actually are....on the ninja and the cbr150( and i am not talking tuned stuff)

I do understand this power delivering issue for an CBR 150 ...but for the 250 Ninja it is rather embarassing .

As I stated directly to MBOX and on his forum; it was the skill of the rider. "Had I had more torque would the distance between me and him been less? Most likely; but there would still have been a gap between us." There is another iron butt trip nakwan- umphang-nakwan with tony on the 650 ninja and a 250 Boxer in need - more power or bigger cc doesn't really mean you're better off in umphang hills - a lighter bike with good seating position,torque , power delivered on lower rpm's and handling will do better.Need to also point that the curves are really sharp and a lot of gearwork is needed there- it'll be resulting an aching left hand due to clutchwork , i can easily say that one can rather forget the umphang ride if you seek mellow wide curves with ongoingly medium climbs on a very good road and almost rythmic driving that can be found into lomsak/petchabun---umphang requires a lot more than that-if done in conjunction as an iron butt - this is a "hard work" ride and someone needs to find a good balance over safety, aggresiveness to actually do that I unfortunately don't get much seat time due to my work schedule; MBOX rides daily(?= no, he drove 10000km in 8 month doing 1700km just with you on 2x daytrips and another 720km daytrip with tony so you can estimate how many km's where done on his bike in between- but he may have ridden a fino or retro for his town/village drives) and has many more years in the saddle than I(almost 4 years now- not counting some daily rented bikes around the globe and that 50cc ktm pony with age 16 ..but "killed" it- blew the engine ). Add in one bad experience already on that bike and I was loathe to push my luck on unfamiliar roads.

I know we all have different reasons for driving bikes and enjoy different roads....i like curved , hilly roads...thats where the Boxer delivers outstandingly. But the steeper and sharper the curves the better for the boxer really- if you have a climb and a wide curve i am sure the ninja will be able to hold up or may even be faster ( i know the 650 ninja does go faster ) Downtown the boxer is great too, narrow and power delivering remember the boxer gives the power already on lower rpms so this is very suitable for city downtown driving, a good reason for the police to have them. I never really liked flat long straights... and thats where the boxer's weakness is , it has 5 gears and the topspeed is about 135km/h but if winds are present a 120km/h is realistic. This where the ninja is better ( it got to be good somewhere right? ) and also to mention the CBR150 will mostlikely match the Boxer's speed but may do a little more. To answer wjmark's question , the cbr 150 may do a bit more downhill or on the flat stright road ...due to the cbr's aerodynamics and 6th gear on the cbr 150. The whole scenario will switch when you get into the first climbs...The CBR may also do better on the racetrack than the boxer 250RS, the boxer is an allrounder bike and delivers good in most situation. I think Thaicbr's evalutaion somewhere here was a very accurate one(he drove the boxer from bkk to khon kaen...long enough distance and road variety to make an evaloation i'd say)...he was happy with most of it except the seat, he sat on the 1st generation seat , this has been changed since march/april 2009 and the seat is very good...good enough to do 1000km/day on it

You wrote further:"And the power differential isn't as large as you'd think for an extra 100cc...no matter where the power comes on." i have to laugh over this , the boxer is a 250 and aces a 250 ninja in the hilly umphang ....you got to tell me either the ninja is a pisspoor on delivering power or the memories since you driven your cbr are better than reality...

One thing i always like when posters here come up with technical detail hp , torque and comprassion ratio ....it is reality that counts not just whats written on a piece of paper...and not to forget, most important part of a bike is the one who drives it.

happy trails,

xobm

With respect, given two riders of equal weight and equal ability there is no way a Boxer 250RS will keep up with a Ninja 250R. The Ninja 250R is a fuel injected twin that cranks out 33 Hp stock and redlines at ~14000RPM. I don't know the horsepower of the single cylinder carburated Boxer 250RS and it doesn't have a tach, so who knows what the redline is, but I'm guessing maybe 8 or 9 thousand RPM and perhaps 20-25 horsepower?

The Tiger Boxer 250RS is an economical small all-arounder with good torque down low but no top end while the Ninja 250R is a small but potent little sport bike that is a dog in lower revs but comes alive in the higher revs. Dave probably weighs about twice what you do xobm which makes a comparison of the two bikes quite difficult. Apples and Oranges really in my humble opinion...

Ride On!

Tony

See above for my explaination of the Umphang run. Actually we weigh dam_n near (if xobm is who I think he is...i guess you know him pretty well ) as I.

I don't know where you found the 18hp for the Boxer; but if true (which having rode it doesn't feel like it would be that low) it settles the question about which is quicker....

I actually have this questionmark hanging over my head too- this is what tigers brochure says - 18hp's on the 250 boxer....either it's more than 18hps for the boxer or the ninja doesn't give 33hp's..i find hp's difficult to evalute as my recent bikes prior to the boxer where in the 80-140hp's range - and , yes, it was a big step down on cc and hp size....but i have a lot of fun on the boxer now and am legal no worries about spares either.

As I've said in other threads; I'm very supportive of Tiger. Fighting the good fight against the industry giants is such a hero story that it's hard not to root for them. However, someone asked a question. There was no malice but rather simple fact stated....

happy trails,

xobm

Edited December 2, 2009 by xobm

[soundman]

Housekeeping: Guys - could we try and seperate quotes, replies & go minimal - on the extra colours because it is next to impossible to work out who is saying what.

Better to add five replies keeping them short & relevant rather than one reply with five seperate conversations going on at the same time.

Thanks.

[LivinLOS]

Housekeeping: Guys - could we try and seperate quotes, replies & go minimal - on the extra colours because it is next to impossible to work out who is saying what.

Better to add five replies keeping them short & relevant rather than one reply with five seperate conversations going on at the same time.

Thanks.

Agreed by why the so low 'max amount of quote blocks' ??

Would understand if they are nested quotes but its a pain if your properly doing a discussion quoting blocks and the dam_n thing rejects it.

[dave_boo]

Yes, you drove the cbr in various conditions...did you do that on the Boxer??? Your comparism was with the Ninja 250 to the Boxer that day. I merely meant that a simple 60 km was simply not enough to evaluate....i did more than that on ninja 250 and do not dare to make an evaluation on it, except that the seat is crap on the ninjette.

As mentioned before, the only place where traffic actually was is the place you rode on the Ninja. So a 60km's flat and hardly any"real" traffic situation does to my opinion not really resemble a real traffic nor will it do good of basing an evaluation on it.

You should also know where the strength is of the Boxer=low/mid rpms...which directly results in favor for the Boxer traffic capabilities....i am not going to race into traffic with you on a CBR- it would actually be too dangerous and a silly stunt. hel_l, even a Retro 110C would be competitive in traffic for that matter

As i previously pointed out , the cbr may be having a higher topspeed on the flat or downhill (but actually this gap may be a tiny little ,for me not even worth to mention), a 6th gear & better aerodynamic sitting is result of this.An upright sitting position on Bikes will, in most cases & compared to sportsbikes, be the slower Bike. But we are talking topspeed here...which A.) is never really driven on regular base and B.) i believe much more important to the topspeed is how long does it take to reach an decent speed and the amount of power to overtake being delivered not only on low but also in higher speeds.

The reason why the rear sprocket was exchanged is to have the bike work on lower rpm's while on comfy cruising speed(on a boxer a comfortable cruising speed is 115-120km/h). The topspeed gained with the sprocket change is hard to see(if any) , but the normally lost power/torque in such exchange is also hard to sense.

Honestly, traffic situation didn't allow to go faster that particular time (obviously in town) so both Boxers went deliberately slower.... there was also a confusion over directions so a lookout on road rather than blasting off was thought to be better.

As sidenote , its a safer practice when driving and checking the rear using the rear view mirror rather than turning around!

There is another iron butt trip nakwan- umphang-nakwan with tony on the 650 ninja and a 250 Boxer in need - more power or bigger cc doesn't really mean you're better off in umphang hills - a lighter bike with good seating position,torque , power delivered on lower rpm's and handling will do better.Need to also point that the curves are really sharp and a lot of gearwork is needed there- it'll be resulting an aching left hand due to clutchwork , i can easily say that one can rather forget the umphang ride if you seek mellow wide curves with ongoingly medium climbs on a very good road and almost rythmic driving that can be found into lomsak/petchabun---umphang requires a lot more than that-if done in conjunction as an iron butt - this is a "hard work" ride and someone needs to find a good balance over safety, aggresiveness to actually do that ......= no, he drove 10000km in 8 month doing 1700km just with you on 2x daytrips and another 720km daytrip with tony so you can estimate how many km's where done on his bike in between- but he may have ridden a fino or retro for his town/village drives......(almost 4 years now- not counting some daily rented bikes around the globe and that 50cc ktm pony with age 16 ..but "killed" it- blew the engine )

i guess you know him pretty well

I actually have this questionmark hanging over my head too- this is what tigers brochure says - 18hp's on the 250 boxer....either it's more than 18hps for the boxer or the ninja doesn't give 33hp's..i find hp's difficult to evalute as my recent bikes prior to the boxer where in the 80-140hp's range - and , yes, it was a big step down on cc and hp size....but i have a lot of fun on the boxer now and am legal no worries about spares either

happy trails,

xobm

If you want to consider how far I rode through traffic; the NakWan->(nearly)Ayutaha run at that time of the day was a real eye opener as to the Boxer's in traffic conditions. It was, imho, better than the Ninja but still well behind the CBR. Also, twice further in your post you list reasons that apply to the CBR being better in traffic (although you fail to connect the dots). The first is "even a Retro 110C would be competitive"and your second statement is "more power or bigger cc doesn't really mean you're better off ..... a lighter bike with good seating position ...... handling". Your desire not to roar through traffic is understandable, but the continued insistence that the Tiger is somehow magically faster through traffic is not.

Odd, I thought that all of these pocket bikes were rode at top speed all the time because any slower than top speed and you'd be better off on a pedal bike. Guess I missed a memo. And a bit of truth from the Boxer owners is required here; even spinning along at 90'ish to decently overtake you're going to have to drop a gear--the torque has fallen so far off at that point that you just have to unless you like waiting. And some more hard truth. The Boxer's gearbox is not much better than a Harley's, which I believe has been described as 'agricultural'.

None the less, good luck to y'all on your Iron Butt ride. The good news is that if Tony falls out, he's small enough you can fireman carry him over your shoulder.

And yes the Ninja's seat is crap--but I've bitched about that enough (and am now taking donations for a new Corbin, get your 'em sent as soon as possible to shut me up).

[xobm]

If you want to consider how far I rode through traffic; the NakWan->(nearly)Ayutaha run at that time of the day was a real eye opener as to the Boxer's in traffic conditions. It was, imho, better than the Ninja but still well behind the CBR. Also, twice further in your post you list reasons that apply to the CBR being better in traffic (although you fail to connect the dots). The first is "even a Retro 110C would be competitive"and your second statement is "more power or bigger cc doesn't really mean you're better off ..... a lighter bike with good seating position ...... handling". Your desire not to roar through traffic is understandable, but the continued insistence that the Tiger is somehow magically faster through traffic is not.

Odd, I thought that all of these pocket bikes were rode at top speed all the time because any slower than top speed and you'd be better off on a pedal bike. Guess I missed a memo. And a bit of truth from the Boxer owners is required here; even spinning along at 90'ish to decently overtake you're going to have to drop a gear--the torque has fallen so far off at that point that you just have to unless you like waiting. And some more hard truth. The Boxer's gearbox is not much better than a Harley's, which I believe has been described as 'agricultural'.

None the less, good luck to y'all on your Iron Butt ride. The good news is that if Tony falls out, he's small enough you can fireman carry him over your shoulder.

And yes the Ninja's seat is crap--but I've bitched about that enough (and am now taking donations for a new Corbin, get your 'em sent as soon as possible to shut me up).

I want to reply to some points...

i really don't understand why you don't know that your cbr is delivering its power at high rpm? don't you know that? So you are driving on high rpm's with the cbr on town traffic - the nice torquey power is delivered on low rpms from the boxer .So what is better dave???? No power for accelaration or some power??? come on it's not rocket science - you should know better!!!! I am not promising nor did i ever say this"the Tiger is somehow magically faster" but you said that, and you also pointed this out in the initial post where i responded to, as being wrong:

"I've ridden both bikes (actually I rode the bigger 250cc Boxer) and there's no way it could keep up with a CBR in traffic."

It is true that the boxer can do a 110km/h on 4th gear( i did that day before yesterday again) so i have no idea where you need the truth over a 90km/h on overtake and switching gear- ...i guess your forgot , or you never did outlive the boxers abilities...which is more than likely.It should underline that i am correct by saying that you shall not give an evaluation on another bike that you just driven 6o km on the flat and i repeat no traffic situation, what you are doing here is a lot of biased guessing...it is of no value nor correctness, sorry.Do that bit on the Boxer" drive it like you stole it" than you know....i am talking about dynamic driving.

i posted this line"more power or bigger cc doesn't really mean you're better off ..... a lighter bike with good seating position ...... handling" in conjunction of the umphang hills( and i haven't seen much traffic there....did you?). In any case what does it have to do with the Boxer & traffic driving?The boxer is a narrow bike with torque delivered on low rpm's- that is particular useful in town traffic for escaping possibly dangerous situations or simply overtake (this line fits here even a Retro 110C would be competitive it is narrow and delivers power on low rpms,correct? )....if you didn't get along with the boxer that 60km's was it the fault of the bike really? Or did you not manage to adjust to it? Not sure what your problem with the gearbox was??? I know the clutch needed a bit of "feeling" to use for the previous said reasons, but gearbox??? I guess my gearbox was so bad that i could easily cruise into Umphang for 1000km and no problems from my side nor complains, right?

May i ask you how long ago did you drive your CBR last??? Cause i have you never seen you driving it nor did i ever see it in real.

If i read a bit between the lines and have correct understanding may i ask why do you have a Ninja 250? You seem to run into less accidents or accidents-alike situations on the cbr , you are happy with the cbr in town traffic , the ninja was certainly not in your swing for umphang plus the cbr is a lot cheaper.

I guess the ironbutt with tony will be happening only after i am back from overseas in mid january - still nice time of the year to do it.

happy trails,

xobm

[dave_boo]

I want to reply to some points...

i really don't understand why you don't know that your cbr is delivering its power at high rpm? don't you know that? So you are driving on high rpm's with the cbr on town traffic - the nice torquey power is delivered on low rpms from the boxer .So what is better dave???? No power for accelaration or some power??? come on it's not rocket science - you should know better!!!! I am not promising nor did i ever say this"the Tiger is somehow magically faster" but you said that, and you also pointed this out in the initial post where i responded to, as being wrong:

"I've ridden both bikes (actually I rode the bigger 250cc Boxer) and there's no way it could keep up with a CBR in traffic."

It is true that the boxer can do a 110km/h on 4th gear( i did that day before yesterday again) so i have no idea where you need the truth over a 90km/h on overtake and switching gear- ...i guess your forgot , or you never did outlive the boxers abilities...which is more than likely.It should underline that i am correct by saying that you shall not give an evaluation on another bike that you just driven 6o km on the flat and i repeat no traffic situation, what you are doing here is a lot of biased guessing...it is of no value nor correctness, sorry.Do that bit on the Boxer" drive it like you stole it" than you know....i am talking about dynamic driving.

i posted this line"more power or bigger cc doesn't really mean you're better off ..... a lighter bike with good seating position ...... handling" in conjunction of the umphang hills( and i haven't seen much traffic there....did you?). In any case what does it have to do with the Boxer & traffic driving?The boxer is a narrow bike with torque delivered on low rpm's- that is particular useful in town traffic for escaping possibly dangerous situations or simply overtake (this line fits here even a Retro 110C would be competitive it is narrow and delivers power on low rpms,correct? )....if you didn't get along with the boxer that 60km's was it the fault of the bike really? Or did you not manage to adjust to it? Not sure what your problem with the gearbox was??? I know the clutch needed a bit of "feeling" to use for the previous said reasons, but gearbox??? I guess my gearbox was so bad that i could easily cruise into Umphang for 1000km and no problems from my side nor complains, right?

May i ask you how long ago did you drive your CBR last??? Cause i have you never seen you driving it nor did i ever see it in real.

If i read a bit between the lines and have correct understanding may i ask why do you have a Ninja 250? You seem to run into less accidents or accidents-alike situations on the cbr , you are happy with the cbr in town traffic , the ninja was certainly not in your swing for umphang plus the cbr is a lot cheaper.

I guess the ironbutt with tony will be happening only after i am back from overseas in mid january - still nice time of the year to do it.

happy trails,

xobm

The biggest difference I can think of when riding the CBR versus the Boxer in traffic is the fact the CBR is light enough, and the brakes are good enough, that you can keep it way up in the RPM range where it does have power. In the time I spent in Samut Prakarn area I saw no bike (with the exception of a ratted out 2T driven by a Thai kid with no helmet) that could keep up with the CBR inside of real traffic. My impression riding the Boxer is that it definitely couldn't either.

In regards to the ride on the Boxer; there was some slow spots (think Lat Yao) as well as the quick spots (think A1). And while you're correct that there is torque down low, it wilts fairly quickly. And to assume I didn't try to drive it like I stole it is wrong; it's just that it wasn't responding that well. Some would like to blame the changed sprocket ratio and added weight(even though then later state that changing it would have negligble effect on speed and therefore power), others would like to point to seating position or whatever; I'm sure that I'll be able to provide mr MBOX with some riding time on my stocker CBR so he can do a back to back comparison and determine for himself.

The gearbox complaint (which you never hear Harley riders complaining about either) was merely to illustrate that in the time it takes for a Boxer to get down a gear the Honda is dam_n near two gears down.

Last time I rode the CBR was when I was home. Went down to Lan Sak and had me some khao mein gai. The times that MBOX has seen me on my bike were longer rides that I did take the Ninja on. I'm sure if he wants to do another Umphang run my CBR will want to go along. The reason that I have the Ninja is, and it's in the Ninja thread, my wife bought it. I was waiting for Honda to get off their <deleted> and release a big bike, but oh well. And there were close calls on the CBR too; just not as public as the ones that forum members were witness to on the Ninja.

[PeaceBlondie]

This reminds me of arguments about "Which TEFL course is better?" when almost no one has ever taken two different courses.

[xobm]

This reminds me of arguments about "Which TEFL course is better?" when almost no one has ever taken two different courses.

This helped, to break things off a bit....

[BigBikeBKK]

This reminds me of arguments about "Which TEFL course is better?" when almost no one has ever taken two different courses.

Well said! (What's TEFL???)

[xobm]

This reminds me of arguments about "Which TEFL course is better?" when almost no one has ever taken two different courses.

Well said! (What's TEFL???)

teaching english as foreign language

[xobm]

The biggest difference I can think of when riding the CBR versus the Boxer in traffic is the fact the CBR is light enough, and the brakes are good enough, that you can keep it way up in the RPM range where it does have power. In the time I spent in Samut Prakarn area I saw no bike (with the exception of a ratted out 2T driven by a Thai kid with no helmet) that could keep up with the CBR inside of real traffic. My impression riding the Boxer is that it definitely couldn't either.

In regards to the ride on the Boxer; there was some slow spots (think Lat Yao) as well as the quick spots (think A1). And while you're correct that there is torque down low, it wilts fairly quickly. And to assume I didn't try to drive it like I stole it is wrong; it's just that it wasn't responding that well. Some would like to blame the changed sprocket ratio and added weight(even though then later state that changing it would have negligble effect on speed and therefore power), others would like to point to seating position or whatever; I'm sure that I'll be able to provide mr MBOX with some riding time on my stocker CBR so he can do a back to back comparison and determine for himself.

The gearbox complaint (which you never hear Harley riders complaining about either) was merely to illustrate that in the time it takes for a Boxer to get down a gear the Honda is dam_n near two gears down.

Last time I rode the CBR was when I was home. Went down to Lan Sak and had me some khao mein gai. The times that MBOX has seen me on my bike were longer rides that I did take the Ninja on. I'm sure if he wants to do another Umphang run my CBR will want to go along. The reason that I have the Ninja is, and it's in the Ninja thread, my wife bought it. I was waiting for Honda to get off their <deleted> and release a big bike, but oh well. And there were close calls on the CBR too; just not as public as the ones that forum members were witness to on the Ninja.

1)boxers 250 weight is 121 kg, cbr150 is 115 kg--- can't say that it is that far apart in weight

2) "In the time I spent in Samut Prakarn area I saw no bike (with the exception of a ratted out 2T driven by a Thai kid with no helmet) that could keep up with the CBR inside of real traffic" maybe they were'nt up for racing into death ???

3) Enough riding time on the CBR vs Boxer has been done for both mbox & myself ( now that sounds weird )- needless to say it was more than 60km and not just some flat area.

4) Do that thing what tony suggested on the other site ... it will help you getting the most out of it while staying alive-he meant it in good intentions and so do i.

5) If you want to go to Umphang on the cbr i will take my wifes fino so we are not outperforming each other - you back in LOS when?

6) i want to see a harley rider doing the umphang iron butt , umphang needs fast and good gearing - it was easy for me on the boxer and what better example that this is correct info than on a ride like that?

7)"The reason that I have the Ninja is, and it's in the Ninja thread, my wife bought it." maybe ask her to exchange it to a d-tracker than you got your cbr as sport-alike bike and a dtracker to go to umphang again. d-tracker has a bit lower topspeed but has a good torque ...have it derestricted and than the speed shouldn't be too bad either.

8) "Which TEFL course is better?"

9) just sayin' another pointfor no real reason "9" is a lucky nr and we all need that too

happy trails,

xobm

Edited December 2, 2009 by xobm

[BigBikeBKK]

This reminds me of arguments about "Which TEFL course is better?" when almost no one has ever taken two different courses.

Well said! (What's TEFL???)

teaching english as foreign language

I'm bilingual- I speak English and American!

Edited December 2, 2009 by BigBikeBKK

[BigBikeBKK]

7)"The reason that I have the Ninja is, and it's in the Ninja thread, my wife bought it." maybe ask her to exchange it to a d-tracker than you got your cbr as sport-alike bike and a dtracker to go to umphang again. d-tracker has a bit lower topspeed but has a good torque ...have it derestricted and than the speed shouldn't be too bad either.

+1 to that- why have two little sport bikes (one of which you aren't that fond of anyway) when you could have a little sport bike you like and a nice enduro?

[xobm]

I'm bilingual- I speak English and American!

i am multi lingual- i speak german ,austrian ,english, and can swear and use dirty words in at least another 20 languages

i like to eat young cats and my tiger boxer is better than your bike

are we getting plus the better we get

xobm

[Powerband]

This can all be settled by a simple 1/4 mile race..plenty of CBR 150 guys would be willing. ( i happen to have access to one myself)

Whats up with the Tiger Boxer guys???

Step up to the plate.

60kilometer travel distance is enough to know how a bike performs.

There's nothing wrong with a high revving engine, more kinetic energy is stored, which means faster acceleration.

[troehr]

Tiger service might be great in Bangkok, but it is very different here in Ubon. I went to the Tiger dealer here last week with money in my pocket to buy a Tiger 250RS. I have wanted one for months. After five minutes trying to convince the owner I wanted a motorcycle and not a scooter, he finally tells me he won't sell them because no one will buy them. He was quite an ass about it actually. Well, you just lost the one customer that wanted to buy one. Down the street I went and bought a CBR150. If you are treated poorly trying to buy one, I am sure the service will be bad also.

Tim

[xobm]

This can all be settled by a simple 1/4 mile race..plenty of CBR 150 guys would be willing. ( i happen to have access to one myself)

Whats up with the Tiger Boxer guys???

Step up to the plate.

60kilometer travel distance is enough to know how a bike performs.

There's nothing wrong with a high revving engine, more kinetic energy is stored, which means faster acceleration.

you're late- party is over...

go to bira if you want ot race, read the prior posts we talked about town traffic driving...not racing. If you go to bira it will be a waste of time/money as i am sure the cbr will win...i mentioned the positive aerodynamics and 6th gear for the cbr before...so please read it. Nor is the boxer a racing or sportsbike....it's an allrounder bike- also mentioned it before .

60km is maybe just enough if you do all kind of situations(hilly, town, flat...) for an knowledgable and skilled biker...the situations were certainly not given.

i never said there is anything wrong with a high rev engine...did anyone? Maybe dave want to say a word on this because some bikes just need to be kept on the right rpm's , if that is not done the output is simply not there. But i said the low rev engine delivers better power on low revs...no rocket science really,

So go with your other cbr 150 guys and do your racing ... but i wished to have my vfr750 Fj again and give you a good hiding

xobm

[xobm]

Tiger service might be great in Bangkok, but it is very different here in Ubon. I went to the Tiger dealer here last week with money in my pocket to buy a Tiger 250RS. I have wanted one for months. After five minutes trying to convince the owner I wanted a motorcycle and not a scooter, he finally tells me he won't sell them because no one will buy them. He was quite an ass about it actually. Well, you just lost the one customer that wanted to buy one. Down the street I went and bought a CBR150. If you are treated poorly trying to buy one, I am sure the service will be bad also.

Tim

Sorry to hear tim, there is an online shop where you can buy a tiger boxer 250rs being delivered to your doorstep and serviced by an appointed nearby service center.It is also in english language. PM me if you wish to know more,

xobm

[Richard-BKK]

I believe the Tiger vs. Honda CBR150R is not something what needs repeating. First it is discussed hundreds of times, I'm maybe close too the truth if I say that. Second if we the CEO of Honda Motor (Japan) was not joking early this year Honda Thailand will not sell any two-wheelers with a carburetor. Sure, Honda still has a few days to introduce a 150cc CBR with Fuel-Injection, but then ... they would probably did that already.

For Honda dropping the CBR150R for a more international model in the 125cc or 250cc class range will save huge amount of R&D and will cute production cost...

In the Honda 250cc class most motorcycles are actual 223cc, with low-compression ratio, but with fuel-injection... which makes the Tiger Boxer 250RS (which is actual a 239cc I believe) still a good bike and capable competitor.

Then we have Suzuki moving in with probably the most interesting machine, 249cc fuel-injection and affordable...

And not rule out Lifan, the biggest Chinese motorcycle manufacturer, which CNN (an American news channel) compared to the next Honda on the USA market (referencing to Honda taking the American market so fast with his first little export product). Lifan will introduce several motorcycles on the Thai market. including 200cc, 250cc, and possible a 400cc V-twin motorcycle produced in Thailand.

For more info about Lifan look wikipedia

2010 ... will be a very interesting year for motorcycling Thailand...

Edited December 2, 2009 by Richard-BKK

[Powerband]

But no Tiger people have EVER put their money where their mouth is - only talk

There is nothing aerodynamic about the CBR's fairings, there just for looks, so that excuse doesn't apply. The 6th gear is also another weak excuse, if you actually rode a CBR you would know what I'm talking about.

The parties not over till the fat lady sings.

[BigBikeBKK]

But no Tiger people have EVER put their money where their mouth is - only talk

There is nothing aerodynamic about the CBR's fairings, there just for looks, so that excuse doesn't apply. The 6th gear is also another weak excuse, if you actually rode a CBR you would know what I'm talking about.

The parties not over till the fat lady sings.

Dude, the CBR150 is a little sport bike, the Tiger Boxer 250RS is anything but a sport bike. No one would buy the Boxer for racing. The fat lady has sung. Next!

[xobm]

But no Tiger people have EVER put their money where their mouth is - only talk

There is nothing aerodynamic about the CBR's fairings, there just for looks, so that excuse doesn't apply. The 6th gear is also another weak excuse, if you actually rode a CBR you would know what I'm talking about.

The parties not over till the fat lady sings.

Ok well noted...now go back to the sandbox and play racing with the other boys...

6th gear does make not make a difference? so honda added a gear for no reason? Maybe you should be working for them then.... and with aerodynamics also the seating postition plays the most significant role...got it now?

"But no Tiger people have EVER put their money where their mouth is - only talk " ask dave over the umphang trip...or do what i told you before but you didn't follow up,read the prior posts it's all there...party is over-your fat lady,

happy trails

xobm