Claiming A Thai Dependent

[Ijustwannateach]

Well, this is sort of a paperwork related question...

A Thai friend of mine has asked me to help about an American friend of his who is supporting a family here and wants to use them on his American tax form as a deduction of some sort.

Does anybody know what is need for this, in terms of actual support and/or proof of that support, paperwork, etc.? Anyone been down this road before who can tell me what's necessary?

I'm not quite sure why the American guy isn't doing this himself, but this is a good Thai friend of mine so I want to help him out if I can.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

"Steven"

[PeaceBlondie]

Well, this is sort of a paperwork related question...

A Thai friend of mine has asked me to help about an American friend of his who is supporting a family here and wants to use them on his American tax form as a deduction of some sort.

Does anybody know what is need for this, in terms of actual support and/or proof of that support, paperwork, etc.?  Anyone been down this road before who can tell me what's necessary?

I'm not quite sure why the American guy isn't doing this himself, but this is a good Thai friend of mine so I want to help him out if I can.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First, we assume this American is a US citizen living in Thailand.

I'd go into all the other tests, but each dependent must meet the requirement for RESIDENCY OR CITIZENSHIP. Thais living in Thailand wouldn't qualify.

But some of the other tests include the following, and basically all 6 or 7 requirements are mandatory.

He said he's supporting a family. Is he married to anybody in the family (and I don't think that includes gay marriage)? What is his relationship to each person he wishes to support?

Are they members of the same household for the entire year?

Do they have a SSN from the USA?

I think the residency/citizenship kills it right at the front. But I'm out of date

Can he show that he provided over one=half of each person's total financial support for that year?

Did any member of the family (that he wishes to claim) earn more than US$3,200 or 130,000 baht that year?

[Rickf99]

The best way to get the question of dependents answered is to contact the Internal Revenue Service office at the US Embassy or to their web site (www.irs.gov).

If they aren't citizens or resident green card holders, you can't "legally" claim them on a tax return. You would also need a social security number or individual taxpayer identification number (ITIN) if they are citizen/residents.

Rick

[Ken]

The best way to get the question of dependents answered is to contact the Internal Revenue Service office   at the US Embassy or to their web site (www.irs.gov). 

If they aren't citizens or resident green card holders, you can't "legally" claim them on a tax return.  You would also need a social security number or individual taxpayer identification number (ITIN) if they are citizen/residents.

Rick

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's been awhile since I did this (working expat days), but...for several years I filed a joint tax return with my Thai wife. I had to get her a SSN (for tax purposes) and if she had any income it would have had to be reported on the return as well as my income. I did the SSN stuff thru the US Embassy.

[buadhai]

These days, only people with permission to work in the US can get a US Social Security number. If you need an ID number for tax purposes you need to get an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) from the IRS. In most cases the IRS will issue an ITIN only in conjunction with a tax return -- you can no longer get one in advance.

All of these restrictions are recent and the result of the 9/11 attacks.

[buadhai]

IRS Pub 501 with info on dependents.

[Smokin Joe]

This is some info sent to me by a friend. I don't know anyone that has actually done this though. The form W-7 can be downloaded from the internet and would need to be notarized at the US Embassy.

A search on the IRS website under alien spouses reveals that USA tax payers can use their Thai "wives" as a deduction! The good news is the tax people recognize

"common law marriages" i.e. living together so if you are living with a Thai lady and contribute over 50% of her "income" you qualify to use her as a spouse EVEN IF SHE DOESN'T

HAVE A SS NUMBER and even if you haven't "registered" your marriage with the Thai authorities. The only catch is in the jurisdiction from where you are filing your tax return. As

long as "common law marriages" are not illegal, it would seem that you are allowed to use live in girlfriend as a spouse and common law marriages are not illegal in Thailand.

If your girlfriend doesn't have a SS number you must go to the embassy and get an IRS form W-7 and get her an ITN (individual taxpayer number). You will be required to send

the form with some identification to the IRS and the best form of identification is her Thai passport.

On the website http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw7.pdf it gives a list of identification you can chose to use but you will have to go to the embassy to get it certified or notarized. Applying for the number is apparently really simple, you do your taxes using her as a spouse so you can file as married, fill out the W-7 form and send the form, certified identification, and the tax return to the IRS address listed on the form and you are done.

Within a couple weeks you will get a letter from the IRS giving her new ITN and you use that same number in the future and don't have to apply every year. The IRS

now requires the ITIN form only with your tax return.

I went to the IRS site & came up with the following:

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p501/ar02.html#d0e1042

Considered married. You are considered married for the whole year if on the last day of your tax year you and your spouse meet any one of the following tests.

You are married and living together as husband and wife.

You are living together in a common law marriage that is recognized in the

state where you now live or in the state where the common law marriage began.

You are married and living apart, but not legally separated under a decree

of divorce or separate maintenance.

Nonresident alien or dual-status alien. A joint return generally cannot be filed if either spouse is a nonresident alien at any time during the tax year.

However, if one spouse was a nonresident alien or dual-status alien who was married to a U.S. citizen or resident at the end of the year, the spouses can choose to file a joint

return. If you do file a joint return, you and your spouse are both treated as U.S. residents for the entire tax year. For information on this choice, see chapter 1 of Publication 519.

http://www.irs.gov/faqs/faq-kw129.html

2.3 Filing Requirements/Status/Dependents/Exemptions: Dependents &

Exemptions

Can a person claim a girlfriend as a wife if they have a child or do they have to be married?

You are considered married if you are living together in a common law marriage that is recognized in the state where you now live or in the state where the common

law marriage began. If you are considered married, then you may file as married filing jointly and claim two personal exemptions on a joint return (assuming that neither of you are

qualifying dependents on another individual's return).

If you are not considered married, then you would have to file as single unless you qualify as head of household. You may not claim your girlfriend as your dependent if

your relationship violates local law.

[thaihome]

Well, this is sort of a paperwork related question...

A Thai friend of mine has asked me to help about an American friend of his who is supporting a family here and wants to use them on his American tax form as a deduction of some sort.

Does anybody know what is need for this, in terms of actual support and/or proof of that support, paperwork, etc.?  Anyone been down this road before who can tell me what's necessary?

I'm not quite sure why the American guy isn't doing this himself, but this is a good Thai friend of mine so I want to help him out if I can.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Man, there has been a lot of inaccurate information on this thread.

Smokin Joe has it right, though he got tied up in the when are you considered married stuff. I would like to point out to him that common law marriages, though fairly common upcountry and are not illegal, are not recognized in Thailand as legal marriages, i.e, you can’t claim wife deduction on Thai income tax. I doubt a claim for Thai wife in a non-registered marriage would stand up to an IRS audit.

If you are in registered marriage, then you can indeed file a joint return and claim 2 deductions, even if your wife is not a resident alien (green card) or citizen through the process that Smokin Joe described. I know this as I have been filing a US joint return with my Thai wife (no green card, no US Passport) for the last 5 year using her ITIN number I got the first year.

As far as the original question about claiming for a family in Thailand while living in the US, it seems to me that as long as you can get them ITIN's and be able to prove the relationship (wife, kids, etc) you can claim them.

TH

[PeaceBlondie]

My apology if my initial, tentative reply to IJWT was a bit confusing. The original post contains virtually no details, and there still are none about the person in question.

I asked if the person was married, which hasn't been shown. Of course, a spouse isn't the same as a dependent.

My main point about the five tests is the residency/citizenship test, which is mandatory for claiming a dependent on a US Form 1040. To quote Publication 501:

"2. Citizen or Resident Test

You cannot claim an exemption for a dependent unless that person is a U.S. citizen or resident, or a resident of Canada or Mexico, for some part of the calendar year in which your tax year begins. However, there is an exception for certain adopted children, as explained next.

Children's place of residence. Children usually are citizens or residents of the country of their parents.

If you were a U.S. citizen when your child was born, the child may be a U.S. citizen although the other parent was a nonresident alien and the child was born in a foreign country. If so, and the other dependency tests are met, you can take the exemption. It does not matter if the child lives abroad with the nonresident alien parent.

Adopted child. If you are a U.S. citizen who has legally adopted a child who is not a U.S. citizen or resident, and the other dependency tests are met, you can take the exemption if your home is the child's main home and the child is a member of your household for your entire tax year.

Foreign students' place of residence. Foreign students brought to this country under a qualified international education exchange program and placed in American homes for a temporary period generally are not U.S. residents and do not meet the citizen or resident test. You cannot claim an exemption for them. However, if you provided a home for a foreign student, you may be able to take a charitable contribution deduction. See Expenses Paid for Student Living With You in Publication 526, Charitable Contributions."

If the unknown person in question is an American citizen (whether or not he's filing a joint return with a spouse), what are the chances that these household members or unattached people are citizens of the US, or residents of the US, Canada or Mexico? Of course, there is the exception for a legally adopted child

[Ken]

  If you were a U.S. citizen when your child was born, the child may be a U.S. citizen although the other parent was a nonresident alien and the child was born in a foreign country. If so, and the other dependency tests are met, you can take the exemption. It does not matter if the child lives abroad with the nonresident alien parent.

Adopted child.   If you are a U.S. citizen who has legally adopted a child who is not a U.S. citizen or resident, and the other dependency tests are met, you can take the exemption if your home is the child's main home and the child is a member of your household for your entire tax year.

If the unknown person in question is an American citizen (whether or not he's filing a joint return with a spouse), what are the chances that these household members or unattached people are citizens of the US, or residents of the US, Canada or Mexico?  Of course, there is the exception for a legally adopted child

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tis true, the OP doesn't really give enough info to make any kind of determination. Tis also true that a non-resident alien married to a US taxpayer can file a joint return (I did it legally, from 1992 to 2002) and my wife remained in Thailand.

I also know other Americans who have had children with their Thai wives and yes, they can and do claim them as dependants/exemptions and they live in Thailand.

Edited March 19, 2005 by Ken