Security Deposit For Aircon In Privately Owned Condo.

[scratt]

Hi all,

I am just looking for some feedback / advice from others before I do my nut in our Condo office on Monday morning!

Just a little bit of background first. Have lived in Thailand over 5 years, and own a couple of condos.

One in Bangkok, one on the coast. Both are owned by us outright as individuals (my wife and I), and not in any way rented or anything else. We have air-con units in both already...

This weekend we arranged for a new air-con unit to be installed in our spare bedroom in our condo just outside Bangkok.

On Friday I tried to let our condo management office (MSM are the company) know about it as a courtesy because we have fairly strict security in the building and we need to let the security staff know about people coming in and out to do work.

As usual the people in the condo management office had gone for an early lunch, which obviously ran into a late lunch, so I could not find them.

Saturday morning our engineer and new air-con unit turned up, and all seemed to be fine until the security guard said that the installation had to be inspected by the condo maintenance staff. I had no problem with this, but then they wanted a 20,000 Baht security deposit for having the air-con in the building.

This unit is going on a ledge on the outside of our spare bedroom window designed exactly for that purpose.

Now in the past I have had a satellite dish installed here and had to pay a security deposit for that ("against any damage it might cause"). I had no problem with this as the dish is on the building's roof on common land, so to speak. SO I just put the 10,000 Baht they wanted for that down to experience and paid up. Of course I'll never see that money again until I sell the condo, or die, at which point I presume it passes onto my descendants!!!! TIT!

But this air-con unit is being installed on a ledge which is part of our condo.

I am not really sure what "damage" the 20,000 Baht is to cover against, or how it's anything other than a cash grab, because I don't really intend on selling this condo anytime soon, so it's effectively 20,000 Baht of dead money that the management company get to keep until I die.... Imagine all the 20,000 Baht's they have in some bank account somewhere.. most condos here have 2 or 3 air-con units each... The added irony is the air-con unit we are installing only cost 15,000 Baht!

Has anyone else ever heard of anything like this?

Is this normal practice?

Do all the tenants in a building with perhaps 100 or 200 rooms in all condo buildings in Bangkok have to pay 20,000 baht per air-con unit they have? I am sure that's not the case...

Can anyone shed any light on this for me?

Any comments appreciated...

[scratt]

No idea, anyone? Was wondering if this was in any way normal... or if I should leaflet drop other residents?

[astral]

What does your lease/service agreement say about such matters??

You should have insurance on your apartment that covers 3rd Party Liability.

I cannot see why anything additional should be needed.

[scratt]

What does your lease/service agreement say about such matters??

You should have insurance on your apartment that covers 3rd Party Liability.

I cannot see why anything additional should be needed.

Thanks for the reply.

When you say lease/service agreement what are you referring to?

All the documentation I have is a monthly maintenance bill, which covers various things from water to rubbish disposal, security, maintenance etc. At the MSM condo water is included in that one monthly maintenance bill, whereas at our other condo we have specific utilities bills, and an annual maintenance fee.

We have the deeds for the condos, and at the other condo (not the MSM one) we get copies of the Co-owners minutes of meetings each year, which we can also go and vote on.

At MSM it's a bit more vague. Perhaps my understanding of a home being your castle doesn't quite fit with Thai culture.... because it certainly feels more like I'm a glorified tenant some of the time, or perhaps an irritation that the management company simply tolerates because I pay their bills!

Anything you can point me to so I can understand what on the surface seems to be a system that varies from place to place I'd be really grateful for. Thanks.

Oh, and btw. Yes we have insurance because I fully inderstand if my bath springs a leak I am responsible for the people below. Strange though that when "I got a leak" *in my ceiling* a few years back I ended up paying for it! TIT!

Edited September 13, 2009 by scratt

[khundon]

Of course you did, it was your ceiling and the water is now in your possession.

You are also liable for any costs incurred, when water comes up from the apartment below.

[ukrules]

This sounds like a rip off to me, were all of your neighbours made to pay the same fee ?

[scorecard]

Laws etc., about condominiums, the management process and rules which must (by Law) be practised in Thailand has been upgraded several times in the last few year and are becoming more detailed.

We had one incident a couple of years ago when a large pot fell off a balcony and injured another resident.

The owner of the unit which had the pots asked their insurance company to pay compensation. The insurance company refused and claimed it was the law that a deposit (into the common funds of the condo) has to be lodged for anything which might fall.

At every annual meeting this gets discussed again and again, and our lawyer reminds that this is the law and we should be taking actions to remain within the law.

Of course (like in any country) we have some owners who would rather see the building fall down than contribute 100Baht to a maintence pool etc.

But this of course involves individual deposits. Many of our owners are totally convinced it's a scam and refuse to even discuss it.

So far we have no resolution.

[scratt]

Well when I discuss this tomorrow with the management I will mention that I am going to send a letter to other residents asking their feelings and what they have paid.... with a view to getting it back, if anyone else feels aggrieved. I'll see what the reaction is..

[scratt]

Laws etc., about condominiums, the management process and rules which must (by Law) be practised in Thailand has been upgraded several times in the last few year and are becoming more detailed.

We had one incident a couple of years ago when a large pot fell off a balcony and injured another resident.

The owner of the unit which had the pots asked their insurance company to pay compensation. The insurance company refused and claimed it was the law that a deposit (into the common funds of the condo) has to be lodged for anything which might fall.

At every annual meeting this gets discussed again and again, and our lawyer reminds that this is the law and we should be taking actions to remain within the law.

Of course (like in any country) we have some owners who would rather see the building fall down than contribute 100Baht to a maintence pool etc.

But this of course involves individual deposits. Many of our owners are totally convinced it's a scam and refuse to even discuss it.

So far we have no resolution.

That's interesting, and kind of makes some sense.. Seems that anyone doing anything "new" on our condos is having to stump up to cover this fund for all... Because 20,000 Baht seems like quite a lot of money for one air-con..

[scratt]

Just wanted to clear this up in case anyone stumbled on it and got the wrong impression of MSM.

After meeting with the manager of the office for the condo block it was explained to me much better today.

The 20,000 Baht is a deposit for while my engineers are here. This was not explained at the weekend.

My "visiting" engineers must complete the work to our building engineers standards and they advise prior to work commencing and inspect on completion. I was told there was no risk of my deposit being kept for any reason.. Which seems kind of dumb, because if that is the case then no deposit is required!!

Anyway, it is not a rip off like the forever deposit for items on the roof.

In the end we wrote a cheque, which the office held, and once the job was done they brought the cheque back to us.

Bizarre!

[moe666]

Sounds like a security bond in case the installers destroyed landscape, injured someone, or what ever and good idea that the maintence crew of the condo inspected it because they are the ones who will have to fix it later.

There is nothing more flustrating then to have to fix someone elses screw up after they have left and been paid for a shoddy job. It sounds like you have a good management co. running your condo.

[longball53098]

This is good management and the condo owners association most likely wrote this into the operating rules for the condo to prevent damages to the buildings when people hire shoddy workers.

I would think the deposit you paid for the dish on the roof should have also been refunded in the same way. Unless you mean this deposit was paid to True which is another matter as they insist on a deposit for the equipment they install and rent to you.

[Crossy]

I somehow missed this thread lurking in General, glad we've had a satisfactory explanation.

I'll move it to housing where it can be more easily located in future

[thaihome]

In our building, just like this, you have to post a bond in order for anyone to do any work in your unit. It is refunded when they leave.

TH