Does Anybody Have Any Generic Contracts For Thai Tradesmen?

[Tigs]

Hi Guy's

I wonder if anyone can help. I have gone into dispute with my builder, and am now about to progress and finish my house myself, using a project manager and hiring appropriate tradesmen to do the jobs needed for the final fitting of the house. Does anybody have any generic thai contracts available for the hiring of such people? I will of course be using a lawyer to check everything, but am just trying to save some fees by having some partial documents as a starting point. Any help/advice gratefully received. Thanks.

[kamalabob2]

Tigs are you paying the same "project manager" in your earlier post: "359 000 baht by the project manager for my house, for the wood to use for forming the concrete, using as scaffolding etc"

What did you end up doing and paying for that wood? Farang or Thai "project manager" for your home?

I believe a good source in any area of Thailand for worthwhile advise is to ask your fellow expats who have built a home in YOUR area. They can tell you the "good", the "bad" and the "skipped town" stories. It can be easy sit down with the English speaking owners (or English speaking offspring of the owners) of the reputable building materials store you patronize. They know which builders "pay the bill on time", which builders "only buy the cheapest grade", etc.. If YOU are paying for the materials from that store and have a good relationship, then perhaps that owner will give you some valid names.

Yes there are in fact "tradesmen", such as some excellent wood working crews for interior custom furniture or some men who have a real skill at granite installation or some men who have a small team and seem to do good plumbing / kitchen / bathroom counters. It was my experience that the Thai building contractor had a series of "teams" to do the tasks her main construction team was not qualified for. Separate firms and/or separate teams did the 1) termite piping from Bangkok, 2) window firm from Bangkok, 3) screen doors from Buriram, 4) normal electrical work including all lighting fixture installation and ceiling fan installation from Buriram. 5) main power supply and transformer installation from Buriram, 6) rain gutters from a village, 7) interior custom furniture and wood cabinets, crew who travel and live on site, 8) kitchen counter and bathroom counter tops from a village near Buriram, 9) granite installation from a village, 10) CCTV and alarm from Bangkok, 11) Electric fence from Bangkok, 12) gypsum ceilings 13) curtain crew, 14) pile driver subcontractor 15) roof tile staff from a village, 16) property wall was built by in-laws, 17) driveway construction and brick layers from a village, 18) pool company from Bangkok, 19) pump shop from Buriram for water tanks, pumps and connections, 20) Stainless steel company from Buriram, 21) Painters from a village, 22) local shop for Thai satellite TV installation, 23) Buriram shop for English language moving satellite TV instalation, 24) Buriram shop for air conditioning installation, 25) in-laws to plant a garden, 26) a laminate floor firm from Surin. The attached photos are "local" counter crew and "traveling "wood staff". Tradesmen with experience and skill do exist in Thailand so please do not be discouraged.

I admire the attorney I pay in Bangkok, but I sure do not think he is a person to "vet" the various sub contractors where I live "up country". Simple rule as you have perhaps already discovered: The more money in a down payment, the less happy you will be with the task performed by the tradesman.

Good luck with finishing your home and I really want to know how that "wood forms and scaffold" situation was resolved. I think you best source of "generic Thai contacts" is from the owners of the building materials stores and/or fellow expats who have built a home.

[Tigs]

Kamalabob2

Firstly I would like to thank you for your time in sending such a comprehensive reply. The guy I am in dispute with is indeed the guy who charged so much for the wood forms. We are now facing a court battle over various issues, which will take 12months to 2 years i guess, but I am not phased by that and just want to be in my house by Christmas.

The only other Farang that is really in my area built his own house but sourced in the main team from Cambodia (I don't know how), which is a route that sounds a bit too difficult. I will source teams locally where I can. To be really honest, as soon as I knew that the relationship between me and the builder was broken down beyond repair and that a court battle was going to ensue It was like the weight of the world had been lifted from my shoulders. He was ripping me off left right and center and I was effectively powerless as I was tied into a contract. I stopped paying him as work on the shedule was not being completed. He thought he would 'scare me' by sending a lawyers letter stating that payment must be made within 10 days (including an additional 200K for some reason) and he would cancel the contract and be writing a new one! The advantage was now with me, I went to the best Lawyer in the Town (Chairman of the Law Society in the province) who responded to him with what can only be described as a 'nuke' of a legal letter. By all accounts the builder and his obnoxious wife were visibly shaken by the contents of the letter, which also invoked criminal law should they or any worker/associate set foot on our land or property again. This man cannot believe that I have taken him on head to head (and I will win, and he knows it). I think he expected me and my wife to do what all the Thais seem to do and that is just to 'walk away' from the problem. He owes me 1 Million which I may get back eventually we will see, but the great thing is that I am now in full control of the buying and resourcing. So despite the temporary financial kick in the goolies, I am actually a very happy man at the moment.

As for the wood, it has proved very interesting. He bought it in, charged me all that money then it disappeared, he then used it on two other jobs, which he charged the 'clients' 400K for (200K each house). I complained and was told by everyone, 'it's just the way they do things here, it's the Thai way, there is nothing you can do'. Even the bank manager said the same. However, I have had a very good translation done of the contract, and in this translation, the girl picked out a clause that says 'the builder must provide their own materials and tools for the construction of the house'. I have had this independently verified and it would appear that on that clause I have him for the full cost of those materials, unless he offers a reasonable amount to me for taking them ( i am happy to pay him for what I have had, and have always tried to be completely fair throughout), but if he does not then I will use the law to it's full extent.

So I will get small teams as you have done but just want the protection of good, simple contracts so that the tradesmen know that a good job will be well rewarded and any attempt to stiff me will result in legal action.

Hey Ho! and here was me trying to be 'Mr Grey' in the area

Nice pics mate thanks.

[lannarebirth]

Nadia does a nice job of it:

http://www.samuiforsale.com/Example_Contracts.html

[trevorg]

My advice is, do not ask any 'fellow' ex pats who have 'built' a home in YOUR area, because most, that I've met have been ripped off!

However, the advice about getting to know the nearest 'reputable building materials store you patronize' is definitely a good idea!

English speaking owners (or English speaking offspring of the owners)

No further comment!

[stgrhe]

Tigs,

As a buyer you should ensure that you have the upper hand when choosing a new builder for completion of the house. That said, your construction contract should be in English. You may for convenience have the agreement translated into Thai but the English version should have precedence. This must be rule number 1 unless you are fluent in Thai.

Any agreement should be balanced taking into account the interests of both parties. One-sided agreements much too often lead to conflicts as the 'suffering' party often feels that his rights are not recognised.

A good construction agreement should have these main areas:

1. Definition of the parties (the seller and the buyer)

2. Interpretations of the definitions

3. Scope, i.e. the purpose of the agreement and its content

4. The commercial part, i.e. price and content, payment milestones and payment terms end conditions, delivery times and terms, liquidated damages, risks and title, insurance, warranties, provision for extras, etc.

5. Legal terms, i.e. governing law, language, precedence in the event of conflicting clause, how disputes should be handled (arbitration), termination & suspension, force majeure, effective date of agreement, etc.

There should also be a comprehensive technical specification and a master time plan in addition to the house plan drawings sent to tessabahn together with the building permit application.

[Tigs]

Tigs,

As a buyer you should ensure that you have the upper hand when choosing a new builder for completion of the house. That said, your construction contract should be in English. You may for convenience have the agreement translated into Thai but the English version should have precedence. This must be rule number 1 unless you are fluent in Thai.

Any agreement should be balanced taking into account the interests of both parties. One-sided agreements much too often lead to conflicts as the 'suffering' party often feels that his rights are not recognised.

A good construction agreement should have these main areas:

1. Definition of the parties (the seller and the buyer)

2. Interpretations of the definitions

3. Scope, i.e. the purpose of the agreement and its content

4. The commercial part, i.e. price and content, payment milestones and payment terms end conditions, delivery times and terms, liquidated damages, risks and title, insurance, warranties, provision for extras, etc.

5. Legal terms, i.e. governing law, language, precedence in the event of conflicting clause, how disputes should be handled (arbitration), termination & suspension, force majeure, effective date of agreement, etc.

There should also be a comprehensive technical specification and a master time plan in addition to the house plan drawings sent to tessabahn together with the building permit application.

Thanks for that. But a quick question. You say have the contracts written in English, is that acceptable under Thai Law?

[lannarebirth]

Tigs,

As a buyer you should ensure that you have the upper hand when choosing a new builder for completion of the house. That said, your construction contract should be in English. You may for convenience have the agreement translated into Thai but the English version should have precedence. This must be rule number 1 unless you are fluent in Thai.

Any agreement should be balanced taking into account the interests of both parties. One-sided agreements much too often lead to conflicts as the 'suffering' party often feels that his rights are not recognised.

A good construction agreement should have these main areas:

1. Definition of the parties (the seller and the buyer)

2. Interpretations of the definitions

3. Scope, i.e. the purpose of the agreement and its content

4. The commercial part, i.e. price and content, payment milestones and payment terms end conditions, delivery times and terms, liquidated damages, risks and title, insurance, warranties, provision for extras, etc.

5. Legal terms, i.e. governing law, language, precedence in the event of conflicting clause, how disputes should be handled (arbitration), termination & suspension, force majeure, effective date of agreement, etc.

There should also be a comprehensive technical specification and a master time plan in addition to the house plan drawings sent to tessabahn together with the building permit application.

Thanks for that. But a quick question. You say have the contracts written in English, is that acceptable under Thai Law?

No, of course not. The Thai/English ones I posted for you are.

[stgrhe]

That is incorrect. Contracts written in English are recognised by Thai law. Who has given you this missleading information Lannarebirth?

[bkkbill]

You would have as much luck with an english only contract in a Thai court as an Contract written in Thai in the good old US of A.

[stgrhe]

You would have as much luck with an english only contract in a Thai court as an Contract written in Thai in the good old US of A.

You are comparing apples and pear there mate. My point is, the Thai law recognises a contract written in English and for an expat who does not master the written Thai language it is far better to have his contract written in English. It can of course for convenience be translated into Thai but that is beside the point. It is important that the English text has precedence and as a buyer he should claim his rights.

In a court case things might be slightly different but one should always remember that taking someone to court is the last option. First, one should always triy the settle the disputes amicably, failing that then one should go to arbitration before the court. Further, in a court case one needs to have an English written contract translated into Thai, which is quite acceptable, but contractually the English original text shall have precedence.

There are a too many misconceptions with regards contracts here on this forum.

[quiksilva]

You would have as much luck with an english only contract in a Thai court as an Contract written in Thai in the good old US of A.

You are comparing apples and pear there mate. My point is, the Thai law recognises a contract written in English and for an expat who does not master the written Thai language it is far better to have his contract written in English. It can of course for convenience be translated into Thai but that is beside the point. It is important that the English text has precedence and as a buyer he should claim his rights.

In a court case things might be slightly different but one should always remember that taking someone to court is the last option. First, one should always triy the settle the disputes amicably, failing that then one should go to arbitration before the court. Further, in a court case one needs to have an English written contract translated into Thai, which is quite acceptable, but contractually the English original text shall have precedence.

There are a too many misconceptions with regards contracts here on this forum.

Correct this is a very common misconception, and one that I come across very often in my line of work. But yes English only contracts are acceptable, unless they have to registered at a government office or court of law. In which case a Thai translation is needed, but that does not need to take precedence.

Edited October 10, 2009 by quiksilva