Thais Abandon Hunt For Tsunami Dead

[george]

Thais abandon hunt for tsunami dead

BANGKOK: -- Thai authorities are calling off their operation to identify the bodies of tsunami victims because they say that it is hampering attempts to lure tourists.

Families of more than 100 Britons still unaccounted for in Thailand will be outraged at the decision, taken in secret by government officials. Next of kin were promised that the international effort to identify victims would continue until the last body was returned home, no matter how long it took.

The Thais have made no public announcement about their plan because they expect a backlash from European governments who are still missing more than 1,200 people. Nor have they told the international task force in southern Thailand, which is led by a team of 90 police and forensic scientists from Britain.

Senior officials told The Times that the decision to end the hunt had been discussed with Thaksin Shinawatra, the Thai Prime Minister, who agreed that the operation should be wound up.

The authorities have not said what they will do with remains that have not been identified by the time that the operation is called off. Officials suggest that they could be cremated in a Buddhist ceremony or buried in a mass grave. No final date for ending the process has been set, but officials say that it will happen before the peak tourist season, which begins in September.

There is growing anger among British families at the slow progress that the Thais are making to identify more than 3,000 bodies from the Boxing Day tragedy. So far only 75 Britons have been confirmed dead in Thailand. There are at least another 106 still missing.

Simon Serls is still trying to trace his mother, Parvin Rieu, 67, and will host a memorial service today for her on what would have been her birthday.

Only days ago, police asked if they could take more fingerprints to help in the identification, telling Mr Serls that it might be a year or more before victims’ names are confirmed.

“It’s too soon to stop the process,” he said. “We have not got very far down the line and the authorities are planning to call off the process without consulting families. The time will come when you have to call a halt, but this is premature.”

Juthamas Siriwan, the Governor of the Tourism Authority of Thailand, said that holidaymakers did not want to be reminded of the tragedy, so foreign volunteers would be sent home and identification sites closed.

“It is a very sensitive issue,” he said. “I think it is to end no longer than six months. If you cannot identify bodies within that time, you have to do something (and say) no more. If they can’t match DNA, you have to admit that you can’t find a body. There are a lot of people still not identified, about 3,000. The Government are confident they can match everyone soon.”

The Government has not been informed of the Thai plan. A Foreign and Commonwealth Office spokesman said: “We share the same aim as the Thais to swiftly and securely identify all the victims and we will liaise with them how this can best be done.”

The Thai Government was accused of insensitivity just days after the disaster, when ministers announced that they were calling off their search for bodies. Protests from local families and international governments forced the Thais to go back on that plan. Bereaved families are pleading with Jack Straw to demand that the Thais speed up the identification process, which is being hindered by infighting, red tape and incompetence among Thai officials.

Three months after the disaster, victims whose names were known within hours are still lying in refrigerated containers or overcrowded mortuaries.

Police and forensic officers from Germany, Britain, Sweden, China and other countries vastly outnumber paying guests at many five-star hotels in Phuket. Senior Thai officials have admitted that they fear that tourists will not arrive if the hotels are still full of the officers.

Thai families who have staged several protests at the time it is taking to return bodies are certain to lead opposition to shutting down the forensic search. Ministers argue that their priority has to be the repair of Thailand’s tourist trade.

--timesonline.co.uk 2005-03-20

[RDN]

Of course, this is the problem when the media try to spice up a story and make it more "happening" by using the present tense, when in fact the future or past tense would be correct.

In this case, they use the present tense:

"Thai authorities are calling off their operation to identify the bodies"

instead of the correct future tense:

"Governor of the Tourism Authority of Thailand said....I think it is to end no longer than six months.... The Government are confident they can match everyone soon.”

So thanks to the Times (what a reputable newspaper that used to be) for implying it is stopping now, when in fact it will probably go on for another 3 months, and who knows what other arrangements will be made then.

[thaibebop]

Always read inbetween the lines for the truth. I do think it's time this issue was closed up and people got on with life, it's for the best for everyone.

[gisele]

Telling the truth and being exact with facts would be so boring and would not sell papers.

Is it 3,000 bodies left to identify?

What would they do with the bodies if they abandonned the task now?

How many lives were claimed in total?

Last night, friends and I in Nakhon were talking about it and we weren't sure what the number was.

[The_Moog]

I do think it's time this issue was closed up and people got on with life, it's for the best for everyone.

"My family have all disappeared presumably dead. There's a pile of corpses and my family could be in there, I've provided DNA and the official just grinned inanely, said 'mai pen rai' and put the sample in a drawer"

"Look stop grumbling old son. Its over now and you just have to get on with things."

".... but I want to bury my family. Its part of the mourning process."

"Yes I think you need to stop moaning. Stiff upper lip...Pip Pip."

Edited March 21, 2005 by The_Moog

[thaibebop]

I do think it's time this issue was closed up and people got on with life, it's for the best for everyone.

"My family have all disappeared presumably dead. There's a pile of corpses and my family could be in there, I've provided DNA and the official just grinned inanely, said 'mai pen rai' and put the sample in a drawer"

"Look stop grumbling old son. Its over now and you just have to get on with things."

".... but I want to bury my family. Its part of the mourning process."

"Yes I think you need to stop moaning. Stiff upper lip...Pip Pip."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am not sure if you are agreeing with me or not. I am sorry for your lost loved ones, but I don't believe that being able to indenify the bodies that once was your family is going to make this any easier on you. The flesh they have left behind is not them and is unimportant. If the sea was the one that claimed their bodies you would never even had a chance of getting them back, would that be any different? I hope I have not been cruel. I am sorry if something I said was hurtful, which I might easily have done not being involved at all with this horrible event at all. However, I believe when our loved ones leave us we must start life again right away for our own benefit, they would not want us to suffer too much for their sakes.

[RDN]

I am not sure if you are agreeing with me or not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think not.

I am sorry for your lost loved ones, but I don't believe that being able to indenify the bodies that once was your family is going to make this any easier on you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I strongly disagree. For most people, to know that the body of their dead relative is lying in a refrigerated truck somewhere in Thailand and will not be returned because the Thais don't have the expertise or money to do it is unacceptable. What people need is "closure".

The flesh they have left behind is not them and is unimportant. If the sea was the one that claimed their bodies you would never even had a chance of getting them back, would that be any different? I hope I have not been cruel. I am sorry if something I said was hurtful, which I might easily have done not being involved at all with this horrible event at all. However, I believe when our loved ones leave us we must start life again right away for our own benefit, they would not want us to suffer too much for their sakes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No you haven't been cruel, you just don't think like the majority of people. If I was one of those dead bodies, I would certainly like to go back "home" and have a marker over my remains.

Edited March 24, 2005 by RDN

[meemiathai]

the Thais don't have the expertise or money to do it is unacceptable.

May I ask how you can solve this problem?

(expertise)&(money)

[RDN]

the Thais don't have the expertise or money to do it is unacceptable.

May I ask how you can solve this problem?

(expertise)&(money)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Easy -

1. accept the expertise and money already offered

2. admit that you - the Thai agencies - cannot do it on your own

Of course, number 2. involves a huge loss of face, so neither it nor number 1. will happen.

Read these stories:

13 th January:

Porntip slams ‘authoritarians’

PHUKET: Dr Khunying Porntip Rojanasunan has rounded on “the authoritarians” she says have forced her to close the mortuary at Wat Yan Yao, Phang Nga, where she and her team had been working to identify victims of the tsunami.

The work has now been transferred to Phuket, to the Thai Tsunami Victim Identification Centre (TTVI), headed by Pol Gen Nopadol Soomboonsub.

Dr Porntip told reporters it had not been her decision to close the mortuary – on February 3 – nor did it mean the task of identifying the bodies was by any means over.

“The authoritarians have forced me to close the mortuary at Wat Yan Yao. They told me that my forensic task was illegal. So I will fade away, as the law demands,” she said.

Dr Porntip said there were still many bodies, believed to be of Thai people, in refrigerated containers at Wat Yan Yao, because DNA samples from them have not yet been compared with those of living relatives.

And, she said, “I do not think the TTVI can handle this task, or is equipped to compare DNA from the bodies of Thai people with that of relatives. The TTVI is staffed by Disaster Victim Identification (DVI) officers from many countries.”

Dr Porntip said she had agreed in principle, before the mortuary was closed. that the task of identifying Thai dead should be left to Thai investigators, while foreign forensic teams should identify foreigners.

She said, “My team was ready to help the TTVI identify Thai corpses. At times like this, we should work together, and we should not think about state agencies vying for honor or power.

“We should not leave it up to foreign teams to carry out this task; Thai people should be given the chance to identify Thai bodies.” She added that the Indonesian government was not relying solely on foreign DVI teams to identify bodies.

She added that her work matched international standards, and her team comprised qualified, experienced people.

The renowned forensic scientist was speaking during a night out in Phuket, where she and her team relaxed before leaving for Bangkok.

The 170 scientisits – who had worked without a break since arriving in Phang Nga after the tsunami – had a buffet at Krua Ta-Yai restaurant.

The Phuket Gazette

10th February:

Pornthip to return to Wat Yan Yao

PHUKET: Battling forensic scientist Dr Khunying Pornthip Rojanasunan is to resume her work on identifying tsunami victims after Justice Minister Pongthep Thepkarnjana intervened in the row between her and Thai Tsunami Victim Identification Centre (TTVI) boss Pol Gen Nopadol Soomboonsub.

Dr Pornthip and her team left Phang Nga last week after the mortuary at Wat Yan Yao, which had been their base, was closed.

During a night out in Phuket before she left for Bangkok, Dr Pornthip slammed “the autocrats”, whom she accused of orchestrating the closure.

However, after a meeting this morning with Dr Pornthip, Gen Nopadol and Justice Ministry permanent secretary Somchai Wongsawat, K. Pongthep decided that Dr Porntip should be allowed to return to Wat Yan Yao.

Foreign forensic scientists, who have been helping in the identification process, were barred from the meeting.

A stony-faced Dr Pornthip entered the meeting without saying a word to Gen Nopadol.

After more than four hours, the pair agreed to cooperate to identify bodies thought to be those of Thai people which are still at Wat Yan Yao. Both also agreed not to speak to the media about each other.

As he left, Gen Nopadol blamed the media for provoking the row by “misinterpreting” his comments about Dr Pornthip.

Dr Pornthip said her team expected to resume work shortly, and that she and Gen Nopadol intended to discuss any problems via video conferencing.

The Phuket Gazette

Edited March 24, 2005 by RDN

[meemiathai]

Maybe you are right then.

[The_Moog]

I am not sure if you are agreeing with me or not.

ha! well, i'm not agreeing with you ! (but I hope in a polite way).

I have no suggestion on how people should deal with grief - I am not a Priest or a psycho-therapist.

But:

Thailand has to get this right.

No shrugging of shoulders, No ...'we tried our best'. No 'sorry, This is Thailand'

You can extract DNA from wooly mammoths who die in the Ice Age - they can do this right. This is not difficult.

No more wet excuses -or limp smiles- from the Thai Authorities - could and should be tolerated.

[thaibebop]

I am not sure if you are agreeing with me or not.

ha! well, i'm not agreeing with you ! (but I hope in a polite way).

I have no suggestion on how people should deal with grief - I am not a Priest or a psycho-therapist.

But:

Thailand has to get this right.

No shrugging of shoulders, No ...'we tried our best'. No 'sorry, This is Thailand'

You can extract DNA from wooly mammoths who die in the Ice Age - they can do this right. This is not difficult.

No more wet excuses -or limp smiles- from the Thai Authorities - could and should be tolerated.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

On this point I can not nor will not argue. I just hope that if the Thais don't come through the people who have not been able to get their family members back can find that closure they need to go on. So much of life is out of our hands.

[RDN]

...I just hope that if the Thais don't come through the people who have not been able to get their family members back can find that closure they need to go on....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hope so too - but if I try to put myself in their place I can't imagine living the rest of my life not knowing what happened to the physical remains of my spouse or child. Someone - maybe you - said it would have been better if they'd all been washed out to sea and no remains were found. That is right and I agree with it. But unfortunately that did not happen - there ARE bodies in morgues in Thailand and they COULD be identified and sent home. And that's what I honestly believe should happen. If they need extra money, then they should scrap the ridiculous proposed 1.5 billion (not 'million' - 'billion') baht memorial - instead use the money to buy equipment and expertise to repatriate these corpses.

[The_Moog]

The DNA swabs have been taken, the bodies are present - ok their condition is, (being blunt), mush now, but they can be kept bagged up separately.

This country has enough space to keep them until identified correctly- there's no need to put them in a mass grave, bulldoze earth over them then smile and beckon in new tourists.

Nobody will fall for that.

Let families have their funerals - even if its next year on another continent. (I think of all the funerals back home I have missed in 10 years in Asia) - its just allows them that small last act of love.

[thaibebop]

I think you guys are right. 1.5 billion on a center piece for tourists to take pictures of is sickening! I had no idea they were planning something like that. I feel that is a gross misuse of funds all in the name of saving face. A mass grave is just plan lazy and cheap! I am sure there are groups who are willing to donate the time and work to help them. I am sure that many Chirstian organiztions would gladly help, with last rites and identification. I think I spoke too quick. I thought that the Thais were overwhelmed with the task and that maybe the victims families would be able to come to terms with what has happened with out the bodies being sent home, for I am sure that some bodies may be to far gone or simply can't be identified. But from what you The_Moog and you RDN tell me it sounds as if the Thais simply don't want to do it. That is unacceptable! I know from my wife that monks and locals have done what ever they could to help Thai families move on. So, it is just that they view us westerns as just a source of money so much that they want to bulldoze the dead just to get the rest of us to come back and drink maitais. In light of this new view they had better get their asses in gear and do what is right!