Powerful Earthquake Rocks Western Indonesia

[Frankythai]

Does anyone have any advice?

I am currently a tourist on holiday in Karon Beach.

Our hotel staff laughed at us when we asked them for advice and said that the Tsunami was in Samoa and not here.

run like the wind or put your head in the sand, take your pick. What a stupid question !

SORRY THERE ARE NO STUPID QUESTIONS, THERE ARE ONLY STUPID ANSWERS, and this answer is stupid.

People are just asking for advice, if you can't give than don't but don't call them stupid, because you do not know the answer

[george]

Pacific quake alert system works well

Pacific tsunami monitors issued an immediate alert after the major quake that struck off Samoa on Tuesday, but the islands' closeness to the epicentre may have boosted the death toll, the United Nations said on Wednesday.

"The alert system worked well. The tsunami alert centre in Honolulu (Hawaii) immediately issued a warning to the various countries in the network,'' said Badaoui Rouhban, director of the section for disaster reduction at the UN Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) in Paris.

"After a warning is received, it is up to local authorities to respond to it,'' he told AFP.

"According to the locality, the alert is then issued by radio, by television, sometimes by ringing church bells or other means... we do not yet have a report as to the response.''

Rouhban said even though the tsunami alert was issued from Hawaii "within minutes,'' the 8.0-magnitude sub-sea quake occurred only about 200 kilometres (120 miles) from the Samoan coastline.

"The speed at which a tsunami moves can be considerable, it can be equivalent to the speed of a plane, at 800 kilometres (500 miles) per hour ... at such speeds, it would have taken only about 20 minutes to reach the coast.''

Rouhban added: "There were victims in Samoa partly because of the close geographical distance or possibly because the local alert system was insufficient, didn't work properly or did not have the time.''

At least 113 people were killed, according to a still-incomplete toll compiled Wednesday from emergency officials in Samoa and Tonga.

UNESCO's Intergovernmental Oceanographic Commission (IOC) is overseeing a global warning system for tsunamis, covering the Indian Ocean, Northeast Atlantic and Mediterranean, Caribbean and Pacific.

The 26-nation Pacific system is the oldest regional network, dating back to 1965. Its hub is the Pacific Tsunami Warning Centre in Hawaii, operated by the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA).

-- AFP 2009-09-30

[guava]

What's the harm in issuing a warning before Indonesia, before they know it it could be too late and same thing will happen in 2004. Amazing Thailand.

What's the harm in prematurely issuing ANY warnings....

Well there's the cost. The inconvenience. The stress. The panic. The potential for traffic accidents, other injuries, looting, civil unrest, etc etc etc. Evacuations don't just happen - people need to make them happen, and there's always a cost - potentially a massive one.

Even more importantly, there's the potential for people to develop apathy - the "boy who cried wolf" scenario. If people are subjected to even a couple of tsunami alerts or even full scale evacuations - and it turns out to be a false alert, how long do you think it would be before a lot of people just chose to ignore them, not relay them to friends and family, not bother waking the kids etc?

[SeanPhuket]

All rightly put on alert, then all rightly alert cancelled.

Good job by all I reckon ...

[Stocky]

Presumably the shock would pass through 500km of land on west sumatra and create a wave in the straits of melaka on the east.

Errr, no.

[lizardofoz]

There's a need some basic geography lessons.

How does an earthquake 50km off Padang Sumatra propagate a wave that could come anywhere near the coast of Thailand?

The last Indonesian earthquake was on that side of Sumatra and still swept around the corner. Yes it can happen as it displaces water that has to go somewhere. Last time it made it to Indian Thailand Malaysia ( upper in Langkawi), and even got to Africa.

Its a displacement of water that turns into a big wave when it gets to the shallows near land.

I was on the beach for the last one - where we you??

Whos to say the wave can only be produced in one direction??

[anterian]

There's a need some basic geography lessons.

How does an earthquake 50km off Padang Sumatra propagate a wave that could come anywhere near the coast of Thailand?

Some physics lessons would help also Someone earlier asked what happens if two tsunami waves meet going in opposite directions. Well on a large scale nothing, they would simply pass through each other unaffected. Find a small pond and toss two pebbles in some distance apart and you will see what I mean. On a local scale it will depend upon the phase relationship between the two waves, if in phase you will get constructive reinforcement, if out of phase then destructive cancellation, as such waves are unlikely to be totally in phase or out of phase, the result will be somewhere inbetween.

[george]

Tsunami Watch canceled

PHUKET: -- The Pacific Tsunami Warning Center has canceled today’s tsunami watch following warnings earlier this evening that a tsunami could hit the region.

The warning center’s latest and ‘final’ report issued to government agencies stated that sea level readings indicate that a significant tsunami was not generated by the magnitude 7.6 earthquake off Sumatra.

-- Phuket Gazette 2009-09-30

[Stocky]

This one is over 800km south of the 2004 epicentre, and in no position to propagate a wave that would affect Phuket.

[korkenzieher]

There's a need some basic geography lessons.

How does an earthquake 50km off Padang Sumatra propagate a wave that could come anywhere near the coast of Thailand?

The last Indonesian earthquake was on that side of Sumatra and still swept around the corner. Yes it can happen as it displaces water that has to go somewhere. Last time it made it to Indian Thailand Malaysia ( upper in Langkawi), and even got to Africa.

Its a displacement of water that turns into a big wave when it gets to the shallows near land.

I was on the beach for the last one - where we you??

Whos to say the wave can only be produced in one direction??

Purely as a generalisation, because what happens is that one side of the sea floor drops with respect to the other, across a fault. Literally a step down. That means the ocean on the upper step is that amount higher up, and water flows down to to the side that has stepped down. That is why India was affected last time, but not Australia. The Tsunami itself happens as the increased water movement slows as it hits the shallows and water backs up, causing the wave to rear up. The reason this doesn't happen with some faults (eg San Andreas) is because they move sideways rather than stepwise. The Pacific circle around southern Indonesia, and Japan is all stepwise faulting due to convergence of tectonic plates.

I also am a Geologist.

RSM, IC Lond.

[jbeck]

There's a need some basic geography lessons.

How does an earthquake 50km off Padang Sumatra propagate a wave that could come anywhere near the coast of Thailand?

Because of angular spreading and bending and refraction/reflection of ocean waves, that's how. Drop a pebble into some water.

[harrycallahan]

The Red Cross and I expect others are going to be asking for cash for the new tsunami victims. Would it be wrong to direct them to the unspent millions and magical disappearing funds collected after the last one?

[Jingjok]

What's the harm in issuing a warning before Indonesia, before they know it it could be too late and same thing will happen in 2004. Amazing Thailand.

What's the harm in prematurely issuing ANY warnings....

Well there's the cost. The inconvenience. The stress. The panic. The potential for traffic accidents, other injuries, looting, civil unrest, etc etc etc. Evacuations don't just happen - people need to make them happen, and there's always a cost - potentially a massive one.

Even more importantly, there's the potential for people to develop apathy - the "boy who cried wolf" scenario. If people are subjected to even a couple of tsunami alerts or even full scale evacuations - and it turns out to be a false alert, how long do you think it would be before a lot of people just chose to ignore them, not relay them to friends and family, not bother waking the kids etc?

Spot on Guava, you beat me to it

All credit to the Thai authorities (and I don't say that very often!) for keeping calm and waiting for proper information before panicking and issuing an @rse-covering alert, which is probably what would have happened in the West. ('elf n safety, mate').

The potential for panic and traffic accidents, some probably fatal, would have not been insignificant.

[Felt 35]

Phuket's safe, trust me

So said also Mr. T

[meelousee]

9pm arrival time for thailand (if at all)

BBC World News resident expert - said yesterdays tsunami 'could' have been travelling at up to 800kmh.

...but i no good at the maths to find out arrival times Thailand.

Speed Distance Time

Known Speed 100kmph

Known Distance 100kn

Distance / speed = 1 hour

****************************

Known distance 100km

Known time 1 hour

distance x time = speed 100kmph

****************************

Known Speed 100kmph

Known Time 1hour

Speed X time = Distance 100km

[meelousee]

There's a need some basic geography lessons.

How does an earthquake 50km off Padang Sumatra propagate a wave that could come anywhere near the coast of Thailand?

I guess you did not know that is the same coast line of the last disaster. you need to learn fluid dynamics, lookup terms like refraction, and see how wave dynamics work.

" basic geography lessons. "

[Stocky]

Seismicity and tsunamis off the Sumatran coast are associated with the subduction zone that forms the boundary between the Indian/Australian and Eurasian plates. As the lower oceanic plate is subducting beneath the continental plate the two plates tend to lock and as he lower plate slowly descends it pulls the upper plate down with it. When the stress buildup overcomes the locking friction, the plates suddenly break free from each other and the upper plate slips back. This sudden slip generates an earthquake and a quick upward displacement of the ocean floor can which can cause a tsunami.

The 2004 quake unlocked the fault over a distance of 1500 km; the rupture started beneath the epicenter and progressed northward along the fault at about 2 km/sec. The whole rupture lasted about 10 minutes. The Richter scale is a base-10 logarithmic scale so whilst todays quake at 7.6 looks big it's nowhere near as big as the 2004 quake. Making the comparison in terms of TNT equivalent, today was about 300 megatons, 2004 was 114 gigatons of TNT!

As I've pointed out todays quake whilst off the same coast is over 800km south, go look at at map. I'm well aware of where it is I'm based in Bengkulu just down the coast, whilst I'm in Thailand for todays bump I was in Bengkulu for the 8.5 event in 2007.

Edited September 30, 2009 by Stocky

[jackr]

Presumably the shock would pass through 500km of land on west sumatra and create a wave in the straits of melaka on the east.

It doesn't work like that (shockwaves creating tsumanis); it's the upthrust causing water displacement as someone else mentioned. If tsunamis were shockwave-generated they'd be happening all the time and would be on us in minutes rather than hours.

[Sherlocke]

There's a need some basic geography lessons.

How does an earthquake 50km off Padang Sumatra propagate a wave that could come anywhere near the coast of Thailand?

tsunamis are often caused by sudden huge displacements of the sea bed...this doe not have to be that near the epicentre - the shock waves from this then move through the water......

[soihok]

Forum Moderators.

Is it really necessary to have any tom ,dick and Harry to post any sh*t as a stupid response to a really serious situation?

OK this is a forum and also it is a source of breaking news.

I guess this has been said before.

My feelings go out to our Brothers and Sisters,Fathers and Mothers,Sons and Daughters that actually suffer from these events and the careless comments of people who are far removed from these events , safe in their own enviroments, well.....what to say?

POST STUPID COMMENTS.

SHAME ON YOU.

[cyb]

Forum Moderators.

Is it really necessary to have any tom ,dick and Harry to post any sh*t as a stupid response to a really serious situation?

OK this is a forum and also it is a source of breaking news.

I guess this has been said before.

My feelings go out to our Brothers and Sisters,Fathers and Mothers,Sons and Daughters that actually suffer from these events and the careless comments of people who are far removed from these events , safe in their own enviroments, well.....what to say?

POST STUPID COMMENTS.

SHAME ON YOU.

Agree Soihok.

This had the potential to be very serious for thailand (It didn't thank god)

So maybe we should spare a thought for those that have being seriously affected by it, Jokers reserve your comments for the bar stools.

Edited September 30, 2009 by cyb

[soihok]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8282670.stm Edited September 30, 2009 by george
Formatting /mod

[buzz]

Greetins, Tis is an eyewitness report of the tsunami taht hit samoa today , sent to me from a friend of the captain. WOW

This morning (six hrs ago) we were shaken awake by an earthquake which seemed to have no end! We were aboard Gallivanter and tied side-to a big concrete dock in the heart of Pago Pago, American Samoa. And after living up & down the California coast, I knew this was no minor tremor.

After the rude awakening, Cath & I walked across the dock and chatted with a few of our fellow sailors, one of whom said that he's just done a Google search on "recent earthquakes" and said that it measured-in at 8.1 and the epicenter was only 120 miles distant.

We returned to Gallivanter and I turned on our laptop and searched the same website. Sure enough there it was... "8.1 earthquake - American Samoa - 20 minutes ago". I clicked on the "Show Map" option and noticed the epicenter was located south west of Pago Pago... which is located on the southern side of the island.

Just as I was considering the ramifications of that little fact... all hel_l started breaking loose! Our boat was on the move! My first reaction was to start the engine and dash up on deck to see what was going on. I witnessed the water around us was rapidly dropping! Rapidly! In a blink of an eye, we were on the bottom and the boat was falling away from the dock! Three of our big dock lines popped and we fell right over into the mud - the entire basin we had been floating in only moments ago had completely drained! People were screaming!

Next - the water came flooding back in at an even more alarming rate and the next thing I knew we were floating directly above the dock! Over the concrete slab and drifting toward a young lady we knew (from another boat) who was desperately hugging a power pole and up to her chin in swirling water! I told Cath to cut the two remaining dock lines with our serrated bread knife and to be quick about it!

Right as I put the boat into gear, we were somehow washed back off the dock and into the basin as I advance to full throttle and we accelerated through a floating debris field of floating docks, fuel drums, sinking boats, a shipping container and a barnicle encrusted wreck all of which were spinning in the torrent of rapidly dropping sea level. It was absolute mayhem! As we steered out toward the deep water in the center of the harbor I looked over my shouder and saw what appeared to be a waterfall pouring off the dock and shore beyond. Not one of the dozen vessels remained at the dock. All were underway in a matter of seconds... with or without crews aboard.

We motored around in the middle of the harbor watching the waves of floods & ebbs while wondering about after-shocks and our fellow cruising sailors. As we passed one of our neighbors she shouted to us that her husband had been washed off the dock as they were trying to get away. She was alone and seriously concerned. Other boats broke free from their moorings and anchors in the initial seismic waves and many were driven ashore, or driven under by loose tuna boats.

After about three hours, we felt it was finally safe enough to return to the dock. All we had were lengths of old line and we were short a couple fenders. We were the first to go in and we started un-tangling lines and helping others get back along side the concrete dock. All of the store-fronts along the water are destroyed, roving mobs of kids can be seen looting, the fence around the dock is gone, every boat on stands in a nearby boatyard were washed away. Big fishing boats are now in parking lots across the street. Absolute destruction is seen everywhere along the shore.

Phones and power are down but we got back online right away and I immediately went back to the recent earthquakes website to see if things have been calming down in the center of the earth. A number of aftershocks as strong as 6.0 have been recorded over the past few hours - but thankfully no more wave action has been noticed. We've been making Skype calls to our families and letting others use the computer as well to phone home.

Online news reports say that the earthquake lasted three minutes and the highest flood rose 25 ft above normal! There are 20 confirmed deaths... including our neighbor who was swept off the dock. Most fatalities occured in and around the harbor where we live. Boats are battered and nerves are fried. One friend wound-up on his boat nearly 1000 feet away from the water after breaking from his anchor and sailing right down Main St. taking power & telephone wires down with his mast! Some people lost everything... including their lives. We came through remarkably well with only minor dammage sustained to our toe rail when the dock lines parted and to our fender basket which was the only point of contact with that drifting wreck. I never felt any jarring loads while we were hurtling around above & below the concrete dock, so I believe our hull, keel & rudder suffered no dammage from the wildest boat ride I've ever been on.

We're all okay... and very lucky.

And we've adopted a tiny kitten.

And that's the way it is.

All the Best - All the Time,

[Soutpeel]

Did Thailand ever get around to replacing the "THB 10 million" battery on their Tsumami sensor ??

[YORKSHIREPUD]

There's a need some basic geography lessons.

How does an earthquake 50km off Padang Sumatra propagate a wave that could come anywhere near the coast of Thailand?

Hey STOCKY, maybe you need the lessons Pal, remember the one in 2004 came from Acea Indonesia and found it's way to the East Coast of Africa, That's a long long way Pal and I was here in Phuket Thailand, I was involved in Rescue on Phi Phi Island.

[MyFriend You]

There's a need some basic geography lessons.

How does an earthquake 50km off Padang Sumatra propagate a wave that could come anywhere near the coast of Thailand?

Just ask the people caught in the last one, Banda Aceh is in North Sumatra, that was the epi center of the last Tsunami, the wave went all the way up to Phuket and over to Sri Lanka, then onward to Kenya i East Africa :D

"Cry Havoc, then let slip the Dog's of War" 2/75th Rangers

[MyFriend You]

There's a need some basic geography lessons.

How does an earthquake 50km off Padang Sumatra propagate a wave that could come anywhere near the coast of Thailand?

Just ask the people caught in the last one, Banda Aceh is in North Sumatra, that was the epi center of the last Tsunami, the wave went all the way up to Phuket and over to Sri Lanka, then onward to Kenya i East Africa :D

"Cry Havoc, then let slip the Dog's of War" 2/75th Rangers

Stocky et all: you made your point, us mere mortals tend to jump to conclusion, but ya gotta admit, you baited us with that short curt statement, then began to dazzle us with your B .... I mean knowledge, hey, didn't have anything better to do here in Baghdad anyway, just had a Rocket impact an hour ago just across the wall of this US Embassy Fortress of Solitude.........Drive on

[thefalang]

How did they get the warning teletype? Did they replace the batteries in the early warning system?

Yes, as of several months ago, the Thai gov't couldn't muster up the funds (or ambition) to replace the batteries in the free early warning buoys that were given to them by the US!

[leafmould]

this site is interesting

www .iris.edu/seismon

[buddyholly1]

Does anyone have any advice?

I am currently a tourist on holiday in Karon Beach.

Our hotel staff laughed at us when we asked them for advice and said that the Tsunami was in Samoa and not here.

That is a very distressing reaction. One would think that hotel staff in Phuket would be up-to-date, but it seems they had not yet heard of the Indonesia quake. Maybe 5 years is too long for them to remember.