Lancashirelad Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Hi guys, that title sounds terrible & that i am a totally bad husband, but hopefully it got your attention. Read on please.... I post on behalf of a friend who is not internet savvy. I am not married We'll call him CJ. Got himself into rather a situation. Had never been out of the UK before. Was taken to Thailand by an elderly family friend who had a Thai wife & forced to stay together with a girl they introduced him to 24/7 for 3 weeks. (They had previously been communicating by telephone). I was even threatened by the old guy for suggesting that i take my friend out for a drink & show him around Pattaya the next night and told "he can't leave his woman." To which i retorted that if he wasn't free to do as he pleased then indeed he was kidnapped & perhaps i better report it to the Police. They immediately left the respectable bar we were in. The following morning i went to his hotel to see him.......... they had checked out first thing! I knew within 5 minutes of meeting her she wasn't suitable for him. There is quite an age difference. She is an Isaan village girl, uneducated, who has rarely been out of the village and is not what i would call street wise, even in her home country. Anyway to move on 3 years: Unfortunately his little head took over & he went back to LOS & married her. She has now been here something over 2 years. Visa expired but extended. I believe no ILR yet as she keeps failing the "Life in Britain" exams (no suprise there from me). I think he was in love with the idea of having a young Thai wife, but thought he loved her. He is well aware he was pressured into it & has made a big mistake. (and yes, i did tell him repeatedly at the time). They have a baby son (born in UK) & another baby due in a month. The relationship has broken down. (in truth probably before the 2nd child was conceived!). There is no love on his part & it has become clear she only came here for money........... of which he has little. He feels he has adopted a daughter & a liability rather than gained a wife & and an asset. She has always frequently cried at the slightest thing and/or gives him the silent treatment for 2-3 days. CJ has a strong personality & needed a wife who could match that. As we all know, there are plenty of TG's who would fit that role. He and his family have become attached to the baby son and think there are better opportunities to be had for him & his yet to be brother/sister in England. She wants to take the children back to Thailand. CJ and his family are far from happy with that idea. What are her rights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the scouser Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 It's not a question of the mother's rights, but the child(ren)'s. Sect. 1 of the Children Act 1989 states that in the court deciding any proceedings, the child's welfare will be paramount. http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1989/ukpga...1_en_2#pt1-l1g1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imaneggspurt Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 "I post on behalf of a friend who is not internet savvy" ,dosent sound like your friend is savvy in much, and has he hasnt listened you or others in the past why do you think he will start now,,? lets face its hes a statistic,let him deal with it, as you say hes not a wealthy man so no life savings to lose, and if she wants to go back he cant stop her,......sad for the kids, but the for the adults i have no pity,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryLH Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Does the UK have a law preventing children from leaving the country without permission from both parents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paully Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 It's not a question of the mother's rights, but the child(ren)'s.Sect. 1 of the Children Act 1989 states that in the court deciding any proceedings, the child's welfare will be paramount. http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1989/ukpga...1_en_2#pt1-l1g1 Indeed, Scouse. The father needs to apply to the court for a Prohibited Steps Order under the same Act and needs to apply sharpish. If the child is taken to Thailand there is a problem - Thailand hasn't signed the Hague Convention on Child Abduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossfinn Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 needs to apply sharpish. Do you know how quickly they can be processed? He has at least a month if it goes full term, I suggest no airline will take a woman in late stage prenancy, but they all have differing policies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieB Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 (edited) If she is around 36 weeks as the OP states, she's unlikely to get a ticket from some airlines and any who would fly her after 36 weeks would require her doctor to fill in a form. Edited October 2, 2009 by CharlieB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roamer Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Fast forward to the birth of the second child and lets assume that in the interim period she has not been able to go back to Thailand but now she intends to go. The court makes an order bearing in mind the best interest of the children. Do you think its likely your friend is going to be awarded sole custody of these 2 infants ? On what grounds ? Has the mother proved herself to be totally unfit to be a parent ? Are the children at risk of harm? Do you believe the court will prevent her returning to Thailand with the children for a visit to grandparents ? I would tell your friend to wake up and smell the coffee. If she is as mercenary as you say then maybe a sufficient payment will be enough for her to depart to LOS sans kids without a backward glance. The law should be the last option here and negotiation the first. There are two sides to every story and I can assure you that both the court and social services will make sure she is more than adequately represented by a lawyer only too capable of putting a different spin on events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhgz Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 "I knew within 5 minutes of meeting her she wasn't suitable for him. There is quite an age difference. She is an Isaan village girl, uneducated, who has rarely been out of the village and is not what i would call street wise, even in her home country." There's a long thread with a bunch of guys posting that's exactly what they want in a GF. Toss in some tattoos, sleeping with other guys for money, and lying...and you have a farang's dream relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paully Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 needs to apply sharpish. Do you know how quickly they can be processed? He has at least a month if it goes full term, I suggest no airline will take a woman in late stage prenancy, but they all have differing policies. Could be an emergency application to the High Court (Family Division) in London and an interim order made within days. But he'll need a decent lawyer and it may cost some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashirelad Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 (edited) Thanks for all your replies, they will be passed on. The Scouser: thanks for the link Imaneggspurt: you are correct he's not very savvy. Nice enough guy but suffered a fairly serious blow to the head when a teenager hospitalising him for some time. Didn't help. Sure didn't listen before, i tell you, i was blue in face with repeating myself at the time! But he has smelt the coffee now. He has a number of rental properties all mortgaged & remortgaged upto the hilt which he tells me are now all but one in negative equity. exceedexcell: I doubt the old guy got much of, if any payment from her family as they are quite poor. Roamer: I doubt he would wish for sole custody. Quite simply, i doubt very much he could cope with or want such a commitment. The wife has not at all proved herself an unfit mother and the child(ren) is/are not in danger from either parent. Edited October 2, 2009 by Lancashirelad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmaveric Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Do they even have passports? If so you can tell him to confiscate the passports and they will not be going anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashirelad Posted October 3, 2009 Author Share Posted October 3, 2009 Do they even have passports? If so you can tell him to confiscate the passports and they will not be going anywhere. No, the existing child does not yet have a passport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roamer Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Maybe people should be thinking beyond this. He has not (apparently) married a bg, just someone from a village. Probably at the end of the day someone with even less wherewithal than he has, reading through it maybe no Thai friends in locality...lost and alone, why wouldn't she want to go home ? Maybe he should be looking at a different approach ....bear in mind the alternative is that at the end of the day he loses, no if's or buts, take the passports, get interim judgments, matters not a hoot, bottom line is at some stage in the very near future she will be able to return to LOS with kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traxster Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 To hel_l with him and her,what about the kids ????? People like these two shouldn't be allowed to breed......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Do they even have passports? If so you can tell him to confiscate the passports and they will not be going anywhere. Are we suggesting he do something illegal here ??....I would reference all the cases in Thailand were people have handed over passports for "security" on one thing and another, when said passports where not returned to the persons....the uproar on TV, "this illegal" etc etc..contact the embassy etc... You are suggesting he do the same.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmaveric Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 ^his kids - he is a guardian, so not really illegal is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nontabury Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 I believe Thailand is a signatory to the Hague Convention,and as such would be legally bound to return any children to the UK,in the meantime he could apply to the uk courts,asking the court to bloke any attempt by her to remove the child from the uk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a99az Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Hi guys,that title sounds terrible & that i am a totally bad husband, but hopefully it got your attention. Read on please.... I post on behalf of a friend who is not internet savvy. I am not married We'll call him CJ. Got himself into rather a situation. Had never been out of the UK before. Was taken to Thailand by an elderly family friend who had a Thai wife & forced to stay together with a girl they introduced him to 24/7 for 3 weeks. (They had previously been communicating by telephone). I was even threatened by the old guy for suggesting that i take my friend out for a drink & show him around Pattaya the next night and told "he can't leave his woman." To which i retorted that if he wasn't free to do as he pleased then indeed he was kidnapped & perhaps i better report it to the Police. They immediately left the respectable bar we were in. The following morning i went to his hotel to see him.......... they had checked out first thing! I knew within 5 minutes of meeting her she wasn't suitable for him. There is quite an age difference. She is an Isaan village girl, uneducated, who has rarely been out of the village and is not what i would call street wise, even in her home country. Anyway to move on 3 years: Unfortunately his little head took over & he went back to LOS & married her. She has now been here something over 2 years. Visa expired but extended. I believe no ILR yet as she keeps failing the "Life in Britain" exams (no suprise there from me). I think he was in love with the idea of having a young Thai wife, but thought he loved her. He is well aware he was pressured into it & has made a big mistake. (and yes, i did tell him repeatedly at the time). They have a baby son (born in UK) & another baby due in a month. The relationship has broken down. (in truth probably before the 2nd child was conceived!). There is no love on his part & it has become clear she only came here for money........... of which he has little. He feels he has adopted a daughter & a liability rather than gained a wife & and an asset. She has always frequently cried at the slightest thing and/or gives him the silent treatment for 2-3 days. CJ has a strong personality & needed a wife who could match that. As we all know, there are plenty of TG's who would fit that role. He and his family have become attached to the baby son and think there are better opportunities to be had for him & his yet to be brother/sister in England. She wants to take the children back to Thailand. CJ and his family are far from happy with that idea. What are her rights? This is very sad especially for the children. I can see you care for your friend very much, could you not try to help your friend and advise him to talk with a marriage councillor. We should not forget that he must of felt something for this girl or he would not of returned to Thailand to marry her and then have a child. If you disapprove of her put you personal feelings aside and help them. Remember she is about to give birth to the second child and this plays hel_l with hormones and as for the crying and silent treatment many of us married men get that. Making up is also great. He needs your help now before it’s too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paully Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 I believe Thailand is a signatory to the Hague Convention,and as such would be legally bound to return any children to the UK It isn't - that's why the father would have to obtain an order from the English court that the mother be forbidden from taking the child out of the jurisdiction without permission or the court's approval. If the mother broke the court order it could possibly be enforced in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashirelad Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 a99az thanks for your kind comments. They now have a second baby son, 5 weeks early. AFAIK, mother & baby OK. Baby still in hospital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongeman Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Maybe people should be thinking beyond this. He has not (apparently) married a bg, just someone from a village. Probably at the end of the day someone with even less wherewithal than he has, reading through it maybe no Thai friends in locality...lost and alone, why wouldn't she want to go home ? Maybe he should be looking at a different approach ....bear in mind the alternative is that at the end of the day he loses, no if's or buts, take the passports, get interim judgments, matters not a hoot, bottom line is at some stage in the very near future she will be able to return to LOS with kids. I think there is a lot of sense written in the post above. Has the father tried to bring the wife along to any Thai parties or organisations in the UK ? Somewhere that the wife can communicate with other Thais ? My wife is from Loei and she is very active in the Thai community in Dublin. It does'nt mean she spends every minute with them. Just something to keep up with the goings on. I always try to keep her updated on goings on in Thailand through this site as well. How about getting her Thai Global Network TGN on the Satellite Dish ? Apart from the initial cost there is no Subscription fee. Its a natural feeling for her to be frustrated. Is the husband helping her end encouraging her to pass the test Bringing somebody to Europe is not the same as marrying somebody from there, you have to work hard. By the way I am not accusing anybody of anything here, but there are two sides to every story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashirelad Posted October 19, 2009 Author Share Posted October 19, 2009 (edited) I don't think he's taken her to anything organised, but she does have several TG friends in the locality. I find this rather ironic as i understand these "best friends" are ex bar girls. On his initial trip to LOS i was, for my sins, at the time friendly with a working girl. As we were all in Khorat we kept trying to put my girl on the phone (no problem there) to talk to his girl so that she might establish how close they were to us. Every time CJ handed the phone to his wife-to-be she refused to talk to my girl because she thought she was a bar girl & was frightened of her! So there we were, all in Khorat, we were out sight seeing every day in my rented Toyota Tiger. We went to Khorat City, the Banyon trees near there, Phimai Historical park, Ta Ton national park & Pattaya 2. On meeting up with CJ in Pattaya i asked him what what he had seen. Remember they were with the old guy & his 40+ yr old Thai wife who is from Khorat. His answer: non of the above, just his girl's home & few shops! Edited October 19, 2009 by Lancashirelad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 I believe Thailand is a signatory to the Hague Convention,and as such would be legally bound to return any children to the UK,in the meantime he could apply to the uk courts,asking the court to bloke any attempt by her to remove the child from the uk. Thailand is not a signatory to that section of the Hague Convention that relates to child abduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brahmburgers Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 As we were all in Khorat we kept trying to put my girl on the phone (no problem there) to talk to his girl so that she might establish how close they were to us. Every time CJ handed the phone to his wife-to-be she refused to talk to my girl because she thought she was a bar girl & was frightened of her! Emotional problems - very common, especially among former and current bar girls. For the most part 'bar girls' have parts of their childhood ripped off - by becoming sexually active at a tender age. It's also not surprising that most Thai girls/women in London are former bar girls (as referenced in an earlier post, in regard to the types that were available as contacts/friends). The Brit guy made some decisions which later proved to be dumb. Who among us hasn't made such decisions? I know a Brit who had a crush on a v. young Pattaya bar girl, sent her loads of money each time he left to go back to his accounting gig in England. Sent her the money 'to keep her out of the bar.' (Yea, sure - same cracked scenario that's been going on and still going on ad infinitum). He's now babysitting for two of her infants she had with Thai guys while on the job. He's attached to the babies, as is the Brit guy in the OP (and his family) to their designated pair of babies. All that's described is human nature: making dumbass decisions about mating, and getting emotionally attached to kids. So what's new? The guy has to either make valiant efforts to keep the relationship intact, or he has to be able to detach emotionally, and wave the woman and the kids bye bye. Alternatively, he could move to Thailand, nearby where the ex-wife resides, and make the best of it - though in reality, that would be rife with giant new problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimjim Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 He needs to contact a lawyer in Britain or the police immediately. Once the kids are in Thailand, it will be difficult to get his kids back, though not impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeesipha Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Easy just lose the kids passports,but dont lose the wifes PP then if she wishes to rtn to bkk it will have to be by herself without the kids, then so be it, yes and it really is that easy,just lose them without her suspecting anything,they aint going nowere fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongeman Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Or try and sort out the problem or come to some arrangement without pissing around with passports etc. Find out what both sides want and get somebody who can speak English and Thai to mediate. Preferabably before the child is used as some kind of bargaining chip by two adults who need to cop themselves on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeesipha Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Or try and sort out the problem or come to some arrangement without pissing around with passports etc.Find out what both sides want and get somebody who can speak English and Thai to mediate. Preferabably before the child is used as some kind of bargaining chip by two adults who need to cop themselves on. There is no love on his part and it has become CLEAR she only came here for money.......... I wonder wich one of them will use the kid as some sort of bargaining chip ? She has always freqently cried at the slightest thing AND gives him the silent treatment for 2 -3 days.Try to mediate and come to some common ground with somone like this,not easy by any means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongeman Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Or try and sort out the problem or come to some arrangement without pissing around with passports etc.Find out what both sides want and get somebody who can speak English and Thai to mediate. Preferabably before the child is used as some kind of bargaining chip by two adults who need to cop themselves on. There is no love on his part and it has become CLEAR she only came here for money.......... I wonder wich one of them will use the kid as some sort of bargaining chip ? She has always freqently cried at the slightest thing AND gives him the silent treatment for 2 -3 days.Try to mediate and come to some common ground with somone like this,not easy by any means. Does not look to me like a lot of effort is being made here, just people assuming the bird is there for the cash. What proof do you have of that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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