Bangkok Post Bans Thaivisa From Using Its Content

[NinjaGladiator]

I can't see this as a problem, most if not all of a news paper is telling upto-date affairs, which is a talking point, be it hear-say or from another source. Of course we can discuss current affairs, as long as we don't take whole content and paste it, or divulge that the info has come directly from the BKK post, I see little has to change. They can copy-right their content, but they can't take ownership of a subject, or a quote from 3rd party (eg. politician, cheif of police, etc.)

[sillyfools]

The original post seems quite biased and surely does not reflect well on the part of TV in my opinion.

There are two parties each with opposing but similar interests: advertising revenue (or rather have it: a way to pay for the personnel).

BKK Post has journalists that are paid for producing the articles. Sites (such as TV) copy the full content and republish it without any costs. Results: TV gains from added audience and added revenue. BKK Post loses from less audience and less revenue. If BKK Post articles are no longer republished, surely part of the pageviews of TV will go down as the audience will go to the original source to read the article. I surely can understand the BKK Post as I also have people working for me and they cost money as well.

Try to find a compromise, after all, the free copyright breach of the last years is what gave sites like TV the audience it has today. There is no shame in admitting that.

Good luck,

[sillyfools]

Bangkok Post bans Thaivisa from using its content

Used to buy BKK Post every day. I'll switch to The Nation from today on...

Get real.

[Insight]

Members quoting or posting Bangkok Post content will be warned by our moderating team, and the post will be deleted without warning.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Guest]

Odd that one can find no mention of the "Society for Online News Providers" anywhere online, other than this thread.

There was a detailed article about t on one of the Thai online news services about a week ago. I read it, and promptly forgot about it.

[alstaxi]

To me, it is clear (and fair) that the Bangkok Post is demanding that TV stop posting entire articles.

What is not clear to me is who is demanding that TV members stop merely quoting from the Bangkok Post articles.

Is it TV? Or is it the Bangkok Post?

Read the article, the BP is not stopping TV from using stories, provided they are posted vis RSS, TV can publish the entire paper.So get RSS technology, and use it, every body else is.

[absolutelyBangkok]

The problem with Thaivisa's news links always is/are you don't include direct links.

All Thaivisa's news and breaking news does is attracting own hits and therefore income.

[aslimversgwm]

OK, I'm going to ask the question that I hope other people are thinking:

What is an RSS feed?

Exactly, I was afraid to ask as well!

What the heck is an RSS feed?

[simcity]

12 years here, 12 years with the Bangkok post.

This year I stop it, no more of it!

Perhaps they lost so many customers due to the downhill of the contents, and they presume it is because people read news on line (news of bangkokpost)

[stevecm]

So surely for ThiaVisa to keep up with the rest of the world you should implement RSS within posts.

Bit of a no brainer really.

Well an RSS feed is based on XML not XHTML and has not formatting, so there is no way you could put that in HTML or XHTML. Otherwise i'm sure it would be done.

[lecram]

Well hmmmm,

I was actually thinking same as some readers and that is what legal grounds does Bangkok post really have to ban public content like a newspapers being used????

But ok, no problems Bkk Post I will add myself to the list of many farang I am sure will no longer purchase your newsspaper.

This does show offcourse that Bkk post feels THAIVISA has some clout. Better they worked with you than against but hey this is Thailand!

[apetley]

Members quoting or posting Bangkok Post content will be warned by our moderating team, and the post will be deleted without warning.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Is a link to a Bangkok Post article, without quoting said article acceptable?

[desi]

To me, it is clear (and fair) that the Bangkok Post is demanding that TV stop posting entire articles.

What is not clear to me is who is demanding that TV members stop merely quoting from the Bangkok Post articles.

Is it TV? Or is it the Bangkok Post?

Read the article, the BP is not stopping TV from using stories, provided they are posted vis RSS, TV can publish the entire paper.So get RSS technology, and use it, every body else is.

I did read the article and it does not sound right (and goes against the logics of fair use AND practicalities).

The Bangkok Post are worried about a loss of revenue due to less people coming to their site. So banning TV (a site with a huge membership) from quoting, with a link to the article on the Bangkok Post, makes no sense at all.

So I can only think that the Bangkok post sent out their request without taking care with their wording. Or, that TV is saying 'sod them' and the print they rode in on.

[EdmundDantes]

And rightfully so. Only Thai visa moderators do not understand their task. It is not their task to tell people that they have to change an opinion on the government in order to appease the regime, neither is their any problem quoting the Post

The problem is that Thai visa had the guts to integrally publish Post articles. If you are in bed with the Nation you should not expect to be allowed to steal articles of another newspaper. Deep linking is by the way perfectly legal, as long as the reader find himself after clicking on the Post side.

[sillyfools]

The solution is quite simple for people who want to post to an article. Write a short summary of what is said (use your creativity) and then link to the article. Problem solved.

[asiawatcher]

What happened to freedom of speech? If the Bangkok Post makes a comment in a public forum i.e. its newspaper, then why is that able to be commented/passed upon and censored here? They (BKK Post) made the statement publicly so why can't Thaivisa members pass comment on the article in a public forum? Or do we have to get premises, cigars and chesterfields with brandy balloons and make comment behind closed doors... how archaic!

The media is already censored in Thailand (heavily) so outlet's such as open discussion forums here give - in most cases - insight and understanding to what is being 'fed' to us by Bangkok Post! Disagree George. Nation or not, you are being pressured into submission. Needless to say - we will all stand behind your decision but many, unwillingly.

[Brewsta]

Odd that one can find no mention of the "Society for Online News Providers" anywhere online, other than this thread.

Strange but true.

Could this potential figment of global speech freedom be a tentacle of PONSR (Purveyors of Nonsensical Scurrilous Rumours)....

or, Gawd forbid, MOGGIED (Misinformation Or Gaffs Globally Invented Every Day)

rgdzzzz,

Brewsta

Edited October 2, 2009 by Brewsta

[mrtoad]

What happened to freedom of speech? If the Bangkok Post makes a comment in a public forum i.e. its newspaper, then why is that able to be commented/passed upon and censored here? They (BKK Post) made the statement publicly so why can't Thaivisa members pass comment on the article in a public forum? Or do we have to get premises, cigars and chesterfields with brandy balloons and make comment behind closed doors... how archaic!

The media is already censored in Thailand (heavily) so outlet's such as open discussion forums here give - in most cases - insight and understanding to what is being 'fed' to us by Bangkok Post! Disagree George. Nation or not, you are being pressured into submission. Needless to say - we will all stand behind your decision but many, unwillingly.

I have to sat I echo those feelings as well. However, I am not surprised this has happened considering that TV hopped into bed with The Nation -which IMO was an ill thought out idea in the first place, and always was likely to have repercussions further down the line.

[Shiver]

Just another way of saying "Pay money and I will let you publish" .. Its all about the money !!

Lets side track a little bit. does everyone (no only Thais) thinks that expats earns alot of money? if you think so, says "I"

I think I have a rare distinction, that last night I went into a bar I have frequented for a number of years (beer, never 'other services'), and they gave me my tip back. Flat out refused it. I guess that's what happens when you're a farang financial leper So once they do finally realise that farang and money aren't necessarily the same, and actually believe you through repetition and action rather than stereotype, things shift a little. It was quite a moment, tatoos aside

[Insight]

It's probably so BKK Post can push the new full-page add (that appears after a few seconds, takes a fair bit of time to load with no cancel option) to as many people as possible...

(... not realising that the user can still browse to another website instead...)

[baht&sold]

According to The Nation article, a joint declaration forming the club was signed by 13 major online news-content providers including BOTH Bkk Post & The Nation.

FULL list:

The Nation Multimedia Group

Post Publishing

ASTV Manager

Thai Rath Online

Daily News Online

Matichon

Siam Sport

INN Online

Thansettakij Online

Dara Daily Online

Nawnha Online

Siam Rath Online

Thai Post Online

"While the formation of the Online News Producers Club was aimed primarily at protecting the proprietary material of news websites, it may underline the readiness of the print-media industry, which also operates most of the top news websites, to find a firmer commercial foothold in cyberspace"

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/09/25...ss_30113046.php

So, is it JUST The Bangkok Post covered in the 'ban' or ALL 13?

[brahmburgers]

This is an interesting and multi-faceted subject. I read the 1st page of this thread, but didn't get to the subsequent 2 pages. Currently over 2,000 readers!

There are various ways for news and pap to get to pages of newspapers. Bkk Post itself, takes news from other sources, some of it paid for, some not. Bkk Post also has reporters, who pick up stories, some scooped (first public mention), but most likely most are picked up from police and/or gov't announcements, etc.

There's also syndication, such as political cartoons from elsewhere, and Op-Ed columns (usually opinion pieces), and entertainment.

Although I'm new to the concept of "RSS Feed" (though did read about it recently on Wikipedia), I'd venture there are a variety of ways such feeds can be garnered, some by subscription, etc, and some for free. A 'press release' also fits with RSS protocol, though there are other ways a press release can get to print and/or get viewed online.

Perhaps Bkk Post's mention (of not using its content) can be a catalyst for T.Visa to expand its scope. At the least, subscribe to RSS feeds that are free. This may also encourage independents to garner news items and make them available, though hardly anyone wants to work for free, and we (the reading public) shouldn't expect to get everything for free.

For that reason, perhaps T.Visa could open a section on its web site which includes a modest fee, let's say Bt.150/month per customer (that's 5 baht per day!). The section would be mostly news items, most of which come via paid-for services such as RSS feeds, and perhaps one or two 'roving reporters.' To make it more interesting, the subscription site could have political cartoons & interesting columns garnered thru subscription syndicates such as Copley News Service.

[elcent]

err, don't tell your friends or neighbors what you read in the newspapers, you are going to be in trouble either way, - by the news provider's fairytales and attempts to manipulate society and by the gestapo of the same of claiming all information, invention, everything that was ever said, written or made belongs to them.

Fellas, they have plenty of proof that any phrases, wordings and whatsoever were used by them long before the beginning of time.

Just amused here.

[pedro01]

Bangkok Post's web traffic is in sharp decline according to Google Trends.

That sure sounds like sour grapes to me. Why include that in your 'article' ?

[monkfish]

Its also not in The Nation Newspapers interest to promote traffic to Bangkok post Newspaper website from their own forum.

I would think links to Stories on BKP would be no problem.

To tell you the truth I was expecting this since the Nation took over.

[Mai Krap]

No worries, I doubt Bangkok Post will even exist in another six months, another shame really. They have went from bad to worse over the last few years, so bad I dont even try to read their website anymore. 7 years ago I could not be bothered to buy the Nation, I was a avid Bangkok Post reader. I would even buy the Post 2 days old when I was living out in the jungle and could not get a paper till the next day , I did not own a computer and never had up till then.

Back then there was obvious differences in the Nation and Post, Bangkok Post read more like an American paper. There was the Night Owl to read and other tidbits that added to the daily nonsense, later they would add the Database Section which was great for a couple years. Me and many others were greatly offended at how the entire "Killing Off' of the Night Owl went down, it was so disrespectful to the man and the readers. Nobody is claiming they were not correct to put to bed the Night Owl but they could have at least been respectful, pretended he retired, anything but what happened. Database turned into bunch of nonsense, it seemed to be a bunch of regurgitated second hand stories and week old Tech content that was already irrelevant after 24 hours, yet it was served up there as a weekly. Only in Thailand would someone make a weekly computer section and not realize their targeted audience was tech savvy enough to Google.

The Nation is not much better but I at least click them if I'm awake after midnight when they post their daily. I do that more out of habit than anything else, as any major story will be covered by AFP or AP within minutes. Even Matt Drudge has become irrelevant by 2009 as anyone can do now what Matt was doing ten years ago.

Who needs Bangkok Post when you can be your own news editor? Look in the top right hand corner for controls. To make the image smaller I'm only showing one article per subject when in reality it shows 5 or more, I change the editor according to breaking stories.

[clausewitz]

This idea that a website can ban other sites from linking to their pages goes against the whole point of having the internet- it is so obviously silly that I am surprised Thaivisa even considers abiding by it.

Then again TIT.

[Somnambulist]

I go to a coffee shop to read the computer section of the BP every Wednesday. You'd have to pay me well to read it any other time.

[elcent]

As long as the news content, comments and columns are provided as free without membership or paid subscriptions to protect their content, there is nothing they can do as long as you mention the source without necessarily a link to it.

Anyway a seasoned reader would like to get a link.

As one mentioned above.

Citizen journalism is going to win the race. Lots to filter out though, but at least you're closer to truth.

Edited October 2, 2009 by elcent

[pontius]

I really wonder if this is what they were after? They more than likely did not want Thaivisa or any website for that matter posting the entire or most of an article... I am sure it would not be an issue posting the headlines, then linking to the article like so many websites do (dig, slashdot, google,)...

I for one don't blame them, its not fair that Thaivisa posts the entire or most of the article, giving most forum visitors no need to go to BKKPOST's website. So Thaivisa gets all the ad impressions off of the backs of BKK POST's work.

Maybe you should change your policy to only allow headlines.... Then it would be fair to both parties...

Yes indeed, Thaivisa gets the visitors and ad clicks due to content that took 3 seconds to copy / paste. I always wondered why they "got away" with it.

This idea that a website can ban other sites from linking to their pages goes against the whole point of having the internet- it is so obviously silly that I am surprised Thaivisa even considers abiding by it.

Then again TIT.

It's not about linking, it's about re-posting their whole article content, thus "stealing" their visitors, as people no longer need to bother following the link (as already stated above by MyphuketLife).

BKK Post and the others need to pay for their content, so it's pretty normal that they try to protect it in order to collect the hits themselves. You wouldn't like it either if I ate your supper each time you finished preparing it.