Time Share Lunatic

[bridge]

So about half an hour ago, my girlfriend and I are riding on the ring road through Lamai. Doing about 45km/h. All of a sudden one of these time share guys (lunatic) appears from nowhere - dangerously close - we almost collided - trying to engage us in conversation, the usual, "excuse me, where are you from .. do you speak ..". In this case it was do you speak French.

Now fair go, when we are walking down the street in Chaweng, we get stopped all the time, and it is more or less par for the course. They have been here for a long time, and no doubt will be here for a long time to come, but his style was just down right <deleted> dangerous.

Keep a look out for him, numbers on his bike were 953.

[stevehaigh]

So about half an hour ago, my girlfriend and I are riding on the ring road through Lamai. Doing about 45km/h. All of a sudden one of these time share guys (lunatic) appears from nowhere - dangerously close - we almost collided - trying to engage us in conversation, the usual, "excuse me, where are you from .. do you speak ..". In this case it was do you speak French.

Now fair go, when we are walking down the street in Chaweng, we get stopped all the time, and it is more or less par for the course. They have been here for a long time, and no doubt will be here for a long time to come, but his style was just down right <deleted> dangerous.

Keep a look out for him, numbers on his bike were 953.

i suppose they are getting desperate. who in their right mind, or even out of it, would buy a time share! the prices are outrageous and chances are the development will be abandoned in 2 years or less.

i did get a free weekend hotel and a couple of nice free meals thanks to one of them however.

[H2oDunc]

" Excuse me do you speak English "

"Sorry old chap not a word, Now F#@k OFF " normally works for me

[suegha]

[stevebarattonsamui]

" Excuse me do you speak English "

"Sorry old chap not a word, Now F#@k OFF " normally works for me

surprised to hear the pests are still there! they truly annoying on my visits to samui. one would have thought that the current economy would have rid the island of such bottom feeders. How do they survive??

[samuiseagull]

ABSOLUTE tosser's the lot of em'.

[geriatrickid]

ABSOLUTE tosser's the lot of em'.

In absolute agreement with you. Absolutely absurd antics from ardent .................................

Edited October 2, 2009 by Rooo
Removed swear word.Rooo.

[Evergreen]

Aye, and the thing i find most amusing with these ... Deleted XXXX.... is the fact they claim it's "not timeshare"...it's "holiday ownership"...yeah, whatever mate.....

[Mark Wolfe]

So about half an hour ago, my girlfriend and I are riding on the ring road through Lamai. Doing about 45km/h.

No one could come out to proffer anything on the ring road itself -- traffic is through all 'way 'round, so I assume you mean you were off the ring road and on the beach road through Lamai. If this is correct, you were driving far too fast. You need to stop and smell the roses.

Listen, if you encounter one or the duo of these guys, just goof with them. Seriously, this is your chance to be in your own reality series episode. Act cautiously interested at first, but pay attention. After a bit, seem really interested. Ask stupidly obvious questions and after the chum bait gets better, agree to do whatever they want (but have no intention of doing so). Oh, and act really naive, they eat that <deleted> up like honey. Comments like, "Really?" and "Wow!" will give them woodies and it will be them who's swallowing the hook, line and sinker....Remember, you can say anything as long as your wallet remains firmly against your back cheeks....

:0

[H2oDunc]

As said it is not timeshare any more but " Fractional ownership " You own a portion of the property which entites you to spend time at the proerty during the year.

So TIMESHARE then !!

[maccaroni man]

So about half an hour ago, my girlfriend and I are riding on the ring road through Lamai. Doing about 45km/h.

No one could come out to proffer anything on the ring road itself -- traffic is through all 'way 'round, so I assume you mean you were off the ring road and on the beach road through Lamai. If this is correct, you were driving far too fast. You need to stop and smell the roses.

Listen, if you encounter one or the duo of these guys, just goof with them. Seriously, this is your chance to be in your own reality series episode. Act cautiously interested at first, but pay attention. After a bit, seem really interested. Ask stupidly obvious questions and after the chum bait gets better, agree to do whatever they want (but have no intention of doing so). Oh, and act really naive, they eat that <deleted> up like honey. Comments like, "Really?" and "Wow!" will give them woodies and it will be them who's swallowing the hook, line and sinker....Remember, you can say anything as long as your wallet remains firmly against your back cheeks....

:0

where your advice may be good for some, i would suggest it is far better to just say no and walk away. At some point playing them along is like playing with fire as there are pro's waiting in the wings, who do closing for a living and they do know how to part people from their money.

[imaneggspurt]

So about half an hour ago, my girlfriend and I are riding on the ring road through Lamai. Doing about 45km/h.

No one could come out to proffer anything on the ring road itself -- traffic is through all 'way 'round, so I assume you mean you were off the ring road and on the beach road through Lamai. If this is correct, you were driving far too fast. You need to stop and smell the roses.

Listen, if you encounter one or the duo of these guys, just goof with them. Seriously, this is your chance to be in your own reality series episode. Act cautiously interested at first, but pay attention. After a bit, seem really interested. Ask stupidly obvious questions and after the chum bait gets better, agree to do whatever they want (but have no intention of doing so). Oh, and act really naive, they eat that <deleted> up like honey. Comments like, "Really?" and "Wow!" will give them woodies and it will be them who's swallowing the hook, line and sinker....Remember, you can say anything as long as your wallet remains firmly against your back cheeks....

:0

where your advice may be good for some, i would suggest it is far better to just say no and walk away. At some point playing them along is like playing with fire as there are pro's waiting in the wings, who do closing for a living and they do know how to part people from their money.

If you have the time i suggest playing along can be fun, we had a free weekend in vegas and a free tv for attending a seminar, i gave them a credit card that was maxed out for a deposit and went home unscathed, !,......

[bridge]

So about half an hour ago, my girlfriend and I are riding on the ring road through Lamai. Doing about 45km/h.

No one could come out to proffer anything on the ring road itself -- traffic is through all 'way 'round, so I assume you mean you were off the ring road and on the beach road through Lamai. If this is correct, you were driving far too fast. You need to stop and smell the roses.

Listen, if you encounter one or the duo of these guys, just goof with them. Seriously, this is your chance to be in your own reality series episode. Act cautiously interested at first, but pay attention. After a bit, seem really interested. Ask stupidly obvious questions and after the chum bait gets better, agree to do whatever they want (but have no intention of doing so). Oh, and act really naive, they eat that <deleted> up like honey. Comments like, "Really?" and "Wow!" will give them woodies and it will be them who's swallowing the hook, line and sinker....Remember, you can say anything as long as your wallet remains firmly against your back cheeks....

:0

Hey Mark,

Let's get a couple of things straight. I and many others on Samui know you often troll these threads to throw in the odd inflammatory post here and there, maybe it comes from boredom - who knows what goes on inside your head. But seriously you need to wake up to yourself. If I was on the Beach Road in Lamai, I would have said I was riding on the 'Beach Road in Lamai'. I know where the Ring Road is, so before you start assuming things, and accusing me of 'riding too fast', and to 'wake up and smell the roses', why don't you first get facts straight. Hey you might even end up making some good friends here on Samui. Until you do, well I guess you will just keep trolling.

[Rooo]

Any posts mentioning price or developments , under the guise of an answer, are binned.

[ChiangMaiThai]

As said it is not timeshare any more but " Fractional ownership " You own a portion of the property which entites you to spend time at the proerty during the year.

So TIMESHARE then !!

No, not timeshare then.

Timeshare - Typically, you own a right to holiday at a resort during a certain time period in a certain style of room. Most companies sell 25 years. Lots of problems arise from less reputable companies: Can't reserve the time you want - Salesperson lied about what you get with your membership e.g. type of room or F&B rights - If you can find a buyer for your membership, you will lose money - Annual fees raised and raised again as time goes by with no rational justification.

Fractional - Typically, you own a share in a company that in turn owns the property in question. This share can be sold or passed onto your relatives. It is an asset. The share allows you to stay in a set unit for a set period of time - you will never be told that the time you want to reserve is not available. Annual fees can only be raised when documented costs associated with running the property have increased. You have the right to stay in your unit for as long as you own the share. Ownership of the share, just like ownership of a home, does not expire. As the value of the property increases so does the value if the share.

When people go away and think about buying timeshare, they almost never return to buy. This is totally the opposite with factional where prospective buyers go away and do their research and actually come back to buy. If you don't want to own a holiday home outright, then fractional actually makes sense.

Edited October 3, 2009 by ChiangMaiThai

[H2oDunc]

Only a timeshare tout could can see the two things as two different products. Even the guys I know selling the thing tell me its basically the same so i have no need to go away and think on it. I like the majority of people see touts as scum and pests that need to be irradicated from the tourist spots. You wuld get the same answer as my other posting for trying to tell me the difference. Call it what you like it is still a con and a rip off!

[stevebarattonsamui]

So about half an hour ago, my girlfriend and I are riding on the ring road through Lamai. Doing about 45km/h.

No one could come out to proffer anything on the ring road itself -- traffic is through all 'way 'round, so I assume you mean you were off the ring road and on the beach road through Lamai. If this is correct, you were driving far too fast. You need to stop and smell the roses.

Listen, if you encounter one or the duo of these guys, just goof with them. Seriously, this is your chance to be in your own reality series episode. Act cautiously interested at first, but pay attention. After a bit, seem really interested. Ask stupidly obvious questions and after the chum bait gets better, agree to do whatever they want (but have no intention of doing so). Oh, and act really naive, they eat that <deleted> up like honey. Comments like, "Really?" and "Wow!" will give them woodies and it will be them who's swallowing the hook, line and sinker....Remember, you can say anything as long as your wallet remains firmly against your back cheeks....

:0

where your advice may be good for some, i would suggest it is far better to just say no and walk away. At some point playing them along is like playing with fire as there are pro's waiting in the wings, who do closing for a living and they do know how to part people from their money.

they are not to be feared...their "pros"....as opposed to the trash they have trolling the roads their "closing pros" maybe finished primary school and have less tattoos

[stevebarattonsamui]

Only a timeshare tout could can see the two things as two different products. Even the guys I know selling the thing tell me its basically the same so i have no need to go away and think on it. I like the majority of people see touts as scum and pests that need to be irradicated from the tourist spots. You wuld get the same answer as my other posting for trying to tell me the difference. Call it what you like it is still a con and a rip off!

Agree completely. Although the there are some distinctions, as a practical matter they are meaningless. "fractional ownership" is simply "timeshare", re-branded = rip-off.

[ChiangMaiThai]

Only a timeshare tout could can see the two things as two different products. Even the guys I know selling the thing tell me its basically the same so i have no need to go away and think on it. I like the majority of people see touts as scum and pests that need to be irradicated from the tourist spots. You wuld get the same answer as my other posting for trying to tell me the difference. Call it what you like it is still a con and a rip off!

Agree completely. Although the there are some distinctions, as a practical matter they are meaningless. "fractional ownership" is simply "timeshare", re-branded = rip-off.

You simply don't know what you are talking about.

Timeshare and fractional are two completely different products. Even the more reputable player in the market, Marriott has a timeshare division and a fractional divison. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT PRODUCTS.

A block of time (usually 3 months) in a specific unit that you own FOREVER and can sell or rent vs a membership at a resort for 25 years that you probably won't be able to use when its time to go on holiday and that no one in their right mind will buy from you.

The problems arise when the timeshare touts try to make their product more attractive by calling it fractional and even giving their customers worthless pieces of paper to demonstrate their 'ownership'.

Further, in almost all timeshare, the sale takes a whole lot of pressuring and convincing and conniving. That's why you don't get your free gift til you have put up with their bull&hit for 90 minutes - and that's why they have to promise some kind of free gift in the first place! And no one calls the timeshare companies asking to buy - that's why they try to force you into a decision on the day.

The fractional sales process is completely different. The reputable fractional companies don't offer gifts (does a real estate agent give away free ipods?), don't force you to sit and listen to their pitch and actually have customers calling them. And the sale often takes weeks to complete - it doesn't all go down in a matter of hours.

But don't take my word on it, do a little research on google next time before you post.

[maccaroni man]

So about half an hour ago, my girlfriend and I are riding on the ring road through Lamai. Doing about 45km/h.

No one could come out to proffer anything on the ring road itself -- traffic is through all 'way 'round, so I assume you mean you were off the ring road and on the beach road through Lamai. If this is correct, you were driving far too fast. You need to stop and smell the roses.

Listen, if you encounter one or the duo of these guys, just goof with them. Seriously, this is your chance to be in your own reality series episode. Act cautiously interested at first, but pay attention. After a bit, seem really interested. Ask stupidly obvious questions and after the chum bait gets better, agree to do whatever they want (but have no intention of doing so). Oh, and act really naive, they eat that <deleted> up like honey. Comments like, "Really?" and "Wow!" will give them woodies and it will be them who's swallowing the hook, line and sinker....Remember, you can say anything as long as your wallet remains firmly against your back cheeks....

:0

where your advice may be good for some, i would suggest it is far better to just say no and walk away. At some point playing them along is like playing with fire as there are pro's waiting in the wings, who do closing for a living and they do know how to part people from their money.

they are not to be feared...their "pros"....as opposed to the trash they have trolling the roads their "closing pros" maybe finished primary school and have less tattoos

i can assure you that many of the closers, tats or not, educated or not, are making incomes well above many non tattooed, university educated fools, that they part from their cash. having said this, don't get me wrong. the current batch of liners that are on the streets of chewang look like they could all stand to sober up, take a good long bath or 30 days in rehab and are not the best image for samui but hey at least they are not on the dole and are doing more than sitting around.

[stevebarattonsamui]

Only a timeshare tout could can see the two things as two different products. Even the guys I know selling the thing tell me its basically the same so i have no need to go away and think on it. I like the majority of people see touts as scum and pests that need to be irradicated from the tourist spots. You wuld get the same answer as my other posting for trying to tell me the difference. Call it what you like it is still a con and a rip off!

Agree completely. Although the there are some distinctions, as a practical matter they are meaningless. "fractional ownership" is simply "timeshare", re-branded = rip-off.

You simply don't know what you are talking about.

Timeshare and fractional are two completely different products. Even the more reputable player in the market, Marriott has a timeshare division and a fractional divison. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT PRODUCTS.

A block of time (usually 3 months) in a specific unit that you own FOREVER and can sell or rent vs a membership at a resort for 25 years that you probably won't be able to use when its time to go on holiday and that no one in their right mind will buy from you.

The problems arise when the timeshare touts try to make their product more attractive by calling it fractional and even giving their customers worthless pieces of paper to demonstrate their 'ownership'.

Further, in almost all timeshare, the sale takes a whole lot of pressuring and convincing and conniving. That's why you don't get your free gift til you have put up with their bull&hit for 90 minutes - and that's why they have to promise some kind of free gift in the first place! And no one calls the timeshare companies asking to buy - that's why they try to force you into a decision on the day.

The fractional sales process is completely different. The reputable fractional companies don't offer gifts (does a real estate agent give away free ipods?), don't force you to sit and listen to their pitch and actually have customers calling them. And the sale often takes weeks to complete - it doesn't all go down in a matter of hours.

But don't take my word on it, do a little research on google next time before you post.

Actually...I do know... and know far more than you.

Define "ownership"....now try to define "fractional ownership"...but stay within the bounds of Thai law...go....and good luck

[ChiangMaiThai]

Only a timeshare tout could can see the two things as two different products. Even the guys I know selling the thing tell me its basically the same so i have no need to go away and think on it. I like the majority of people see touts as scum and pests that need to be irradicated from the tourist spots. You wuld get the same answer as my other posting for trying to tell me the difference. Call it what you like it is still a con and a rip off!

Agree completely. Although the there are some distinctions, as a practical matter they are meaningless. "fractional ownership" is simply "timeshare", re-branded = rip-off.

You simply don't know what you are talking about.

Timeshare and fractional are two completely different products. Even the more reputable player in the market, Marriott has a timeshare division and a fractional divison. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT PRODUCTS.

A block of time (usually 3 months) in a specific unit that you own FOREVER and can sell or rent vs a membership at a resort for 25 years that you probably won't be able to use when its time to go on holiday and that no one in their right mind will buy from you.

The problems arise when the timeshare touts try to make their product more attractive by calling it fractional and even giving their customers worthless pieces of paper to demonstrate their 'ownership'.

Further, in almost all timeshare, the sale takes a whole lot of pressuring and convincing and conniving. That's why you don't get your free gift til you have put up with their bull&hit for 90 minutes - and that's why they have to promise some kind of free gift in the first place! And no one calls the timeshare companies asking to buy - that's why they try to force you into a decision on the day.

The fractional sales process is completely different. The reputable fractional companies don't offer gifts (does a real estate agent give away free ipods?), don't force you to sit and listen to their pitch and actually have customers calling them. And the sale often takes weeks to complete - it doesn't all go down in a matter of hours.

But don't take my word on it, do a little research on google next time before you post.

Actually...I do know... and know far more than you.

Define "ownership"....now try to define "fractional ownership"...but stay within the bounds of Thai law...go....and good luck

Its quite intriguing how rather than posting a reasoned rebuttal that explains how my definition of timeshare and fractional is wrong, you spend all of 30 second to assure me that you know a lot (more than me! - even though you don't know who I am) but don't bother to enlighten us all with your boundless knowledge, instead telling me to prove what I have already stated. The word ignorant comes to mind.

OWN - to possess; hold as personal property

FRACTIONAL OWNERSHIP- One owns a share in a company. This company owns a given unit or resort. This share is connected to a specific period of time and entitles the OWNER to stay in HIS unit during HIS time or rent this time out to whomever he wishes.

As the property increases (or decreases) in value, so does the value of the share. A fee is paid to a management company who looks after upkeep, utilities, furnishings etc. OWNERSHIP can be bequeathed, just like stock in a any other real estate.

This is not a membership that lets you stay at a resort. This is ownership. The unit - during the time period allotted - is owned.

In countries with more reasonable laws like the US, it is OWNED forever. When you buy a house in the US, it doesn't come with a date that you have to leave and neither does a fractional ownership share. In crazy backwards countries like Thailand, ownership gets reduced to an extremely long term sub-lease, usually 300 years. There are a number of ways that this is done - legally. For many people 300 years is enough.

I'm not just making this stuff up. This is already happening. The legalities have already been hashed out by lawyers. This is legal. And this is becoming extremely popular for the person who wants a holiday home, but doesn't want the hassle or expense of looking after it for the 9 or 10 months a year that they are not around.

Again, ABSOLUTEly certain companies take timeshare and disguise it as fractional ownership to boost sales, but the concept of fractional ownership is 100% sound and completely different from timeshare.

But I know, I'm wrong, you're right and timeshare and fractional are the exact same thing. (And the Missouri Attorney General doesn't know that timeshare and fractional are the same thing either)

http://ago.mo.gov/ConsumerCorner/blog/1019...onal_ownership/

Edited October 4, 2009 by ChiangMaiThai

[PoorSucker]

Here's a quote from one of the companies website.

Sales prices are calculated so that 55% occupancy will deliver a 6% yield (even though 8% is guaranteed for the first two years). After year 2, your suite goes into the rental pool. Conservative estimates for occupancy are to hit 70%, at room rates commensurate with leading five star hotels, by year 4. However, with our superior resort concept strategy, our target is over 80%, which would give healthy double-digit rental yields and excellent growth in the value of your property.

Source : Himmapan.

Ohh, by the way it's going to be completed in Dec 2009.

[livinthailandos]

yeah the absolute guys they've been here how long now. lets see there

absolutely boring

absolutely waste of time

absolutely surprised that there still here

absolutely unsurprised that there still ripping people off

there group consists of a few foreign men, i've seen a few thai men to. and at one point i think they even had a woman to.

don't get me wrong there are actual companies like marriott that actually offer time shares. I could go on but needless to say thailand's structure allows people like them to thrive along with other types of bad people to.

[stiggy]

I particularly like the large northern Guy that stops for a friendly chat and bellows at you that you won .....before realizing you won last week and wasnt interested then either.

Time share fractional ownership whatever, they are earning a buck and people do pay otherwise they wouldn't still be here.

Better than sitting on there arse and complaining about life i guess.

[Pilchard]

In crazy backwards countries like Thailand, ownership gets reduced to an extremely long term sub-lease, usually 300 years. There are a number of ways that this is done - legally. For many people 300 years is enough.

I'm not just making this stuff up.

Again, ABSOLUTEly certain companies take timeshare and disguise it as fractional ownership to boost sales, but the concept of fractional ownership is 100% sound and completely different from timeshare.

As you say , in countries with freehold property rights for foreigners this would be safe (it's used in the UK to get people on the property ladder with the constructor owning a share of the property)

A Thai company structure to allow foreigners to own land would be illegal or unsafe as we all know

I've yet to here of a lease in Thailand longer than 30 years for residential or 50 years commercial, where are you getting 300 hundred years from ??

[ChangMaiSausage]

So about half an hour ago, my girlfriend and I are riding on the ring road through Lamai. Doing about 45km/h.

No one could come out to proffer anything on the ring road itself -- traffic is through all 'way 'round, so I assume you mean you were off the ring road and on the beach road through Lamai. If this is correct, you were driving far too fast. You need to stop and smell the roses.

Listen, if you encounter one or the duo of these guys, just goof with them. Seriously, this is your chance to be in your own reality series episode. Act cautiously interested at first, but pay attention. After a bit, seem really interested. Ask stupidly obvious questions and after the chum bait gets better, agree to do whatever they want (but have no intention of doing so). Oh, and act really naive, they eat that <deleted> up like honey. Comments like, "Really?" and "Wow!" will give them woodies and it will be them who's swallowing the hook, line and sinker....Remember, you can say anything as long as your wallet remains firmly against your back cheeks....

:0

You need to stop and smell the roses - I thought you could only buy roses through the night

Mark - Okay if you have spare time to waste otherwise why give them the time of the day....................... Simple no I'm not interested.

[ChiangMaiThai]

In crazy backwards countries like Thailand, ownership gets reduced to an extremely long term sub-lease, usually 300 years. There are a number of ways that this is done - legally. For many people 300 years is enough.

I'm not just making this stuff up.

Again, ABSOLUTEly certain companies take timeshare and disguise it as fractional ownership to boost sales, but the concept of fractional ownership is 100% sound and completely different from timeshare.

As you say , in countries with freehold property rights for foreigners this would be safe (it's used in the UK to get people on the property ladder with the constructor owning a share of the property)

A Thai company structure to allow foreigners to own land would be illegal or unsafe as we all know

I've yet to here of a lease in Thailand longer than 30 years for residential or 50 years commercial, where are you getting 300 hundred years from ??

A foreign company can lease land from a Thai company for 30 years with options to renew an additional 9 times for 30 years each for a total of 300 years. The foreign company can then sell interests in the property, which will be valid for 300 years. In this sense the customer has ownership for 300 years, which isn't of course the same as owning something forever as you would in the UK, but for many people 300 years is good enough.

I am happy to at least meet someone who acknowledges that fractional and timeshare are different products. The Ritz Carlton, Marriott and the US Attorney General are not all involved in a huge conspiracy. I am not saying fractional is the greatest thing ever. I am saying that when done properly, it is very different from timeshare. When used and abused, it ABSOLUTEly becomes just like timeshare.

[Samuian]

Absolutely!

Who would go in a Restaurant, pay for a meal and then being told he can only have it in small tranches, so every time one visits, one get's a small serve of the part of the share one paid for - who would do that?

Especially in an environment where the legal side of things is in limbo and "Right" is something that depends on who is who or which amount does change owners....

DiY - or keep renting.....

[PoorSucker]

A foreign company can lease land from a Thai company for 30 years with options to renew an additional 9 times for 30 years each for a total of 300 years.

The key word here is options.

If the landowner dies, do you think the new owners will honour a "option"?