Snake.......

[Gary A]

Today I got this email from a friend of mine. He lives near Ao Nang;

Last night was a tough one at the old homestead. Karen and a friend, a

10

year old girl, wanted to sleep in the kitchen and play camping. The

girls

were sleeping on the floor in front of the TV. The 10 year old got up

to

get a drink of water about 0200 Hrs. I heard the kids screaming like

they

were being killed. I opened the bedroom door and saw a huge cobra on

the

kitchen floor right in front of my door. It was raised up and hissing.

The

kids were standing on a big wooden table screaming their brains out. I

told

them to stay where they were, climbed out the bedroom window grabbed my

snake stick and found the back door was locked. The snake was between

the

door and the kids and they couldn't unlock the door. What a

predicament. I

went back into the bedroom and reentered the kitchen through the

bedroom

door and saw the snake had moved to the corner and climbed into an open

bookcase. The lights were dim and I couldn't see it but I could here it

hissing. Man, I got to tell you, a hissing cobra that you can't see,

with

the girls screaming, at 0200 Hrs in the morning dressed in my boxer

shorts,

will get the old adrenalin going. I jumped past the bookcase and

unlocked

the back door. I got the girls out the back door and turned on the

lights.

It took my 2 neighbors and myself about 90 minutes to kill that snake.

They

are unbelievably fast. It was a sight to behold, 3 grown men with

sticks

jumping around the furniture like a bunch of monkeys. Every time we

trapped

it in one spot it would start hissing and slither somewhere else.

Scared

the ###### out of me.

We were really lucky that the kids weren't bitten. Imagine sleeping a

foot

away from a Cobra!

As a post note the police answered 911 after about 10 rings and person

that

answered sounded like he just woke up. He told a 10 year old kid that

they

couldn't come out because they had to guard the Krabi Police station.

What

a bunch of worthless individuals. Of course he wouldn't give us his

name.

The snake was a little over a meter long and was a "Monocular" type.

This

snake kills more people every year, mostly in India, than any other

type.

One of the neighbors took the snake home and ate it.

[bkkmadness]

Scary stuff. Thing I am scared about if I see a cobra is coming scross the spitting variety, they are deadly accurate at some distance.

What could you do in that sitaution, can't even look at the snake while trying to avoid it.

[RDN]

What a pity you had to kill it - a nice friendly snake like that. I'm sure it would have been much more at home posted through the letter box of Krabi police station

Seriously though, well done, I've only ever seen a non-poisonous tiddler of a snake, but it still gave me a fright.

[aletta]

Used to have a big problem with snakes,but not since a mongoose seems to have taken residence.

[sbk]

My husband claims bamboo is the best weapon again cobras, that they have some kind of sensitivity to it. Don't know if that is true or not but since he has lived with cobras his whole life I guess he knows just a bit more about it than me

[Pudgimelon]

The common Siamese Cobra cannot move while it's head is raised. It can only strike down and forward. That's why you'll see snake handlers tap a cobra on the head, causing it to bob down a bit, and then they just reach behind the snake and grab it by the tail. Held at arm's length, the cobra cannot coil back and strike your body or arm, it can only hiss and be pissed off.

The King Cobra, on the other hand, can move while it's hood is open and can strike in any direction. How you would tell the difference between a young King and a regular Siamese in a dark kitchen is beyond me, but I probably wouldn't want to gamble. Though from your description, it sounds like you had a Siamese, they tend to be a lot more aggressive and hiss a lot and they move like lightning. King's tend to be more docile (relatively) and slower (relatively).

Spitting Cobras are just f'ing dangerous. Period.

I teach the kids in my class about snake safety because I think it's important that they know how to properly react to these animals. Snakes truly dislike biting things they can't eat (Why else would they hiss? They are WARNING you that they will bite, but what they really want is for you to go away so they can escape). If snakes were just straight-up evil, they'd go around biting people without warning, but they don't.

There are only two things that a snake will bite: 1) something it can fit into it's mouth, and 2) something scary (to the snake).

It's important to explain this to children so they understand that snakes prefer escaping to biting. This will help lower their fear level to the point where they can react correctly to a snake encounter.

Sorry to say, but standing on a table screaming is NOT an appropriate reaction. Neither is dancing around on the furniture beating the snake with sticks. Both actions are just going to piss the snake off and INCREASE your risk of getting bit.

Here's the safety steps that I was taught when I was a kid (we had a lot of rattlers in our area) and it's what I teach in my classroom:

First: Stand Still.

Jumping around and screaming only agitates the snake. Explain to your kids that the snake is just as scared as they are, but to the snake, your children appear as big scary monsters with big snake-squishing feet.

Second: SLOWLY take four big steps BACK.

No snake in the world can strike from that range (except a Spitter, of course), and most snakes if given that much room would head for the nearest exit. I've caught dozens of snakes before and trust me, they really, really don't want to chase people around and bite'em if they can avoid it.

Third: Turn and run away.

Children should be taught that they should never attempt to pick up, play with, stomp on, or kill a snake. The only appropriate response to a snake encounter is to get to a safe distance and then RUN.

Fourth: Tell an adult.

Unfortunately, in Thailand this usually results in the snake's death, but at least it's an adult doing the dangerous part while the kids are safely far away.

It's relatively easy to construct a proper snake stick (not a killing kind), with a 2m long section of PVC pipe and a clothesline. Just make a noose and stuff it through the pipe (a handle on the other end of the line helps keep it from dropping into the pipe when not in use).

Simply slip the noose over the snakes neck and give it a good yank. The snake is snared and you can either bag it up for a trip to a nice grassy meadow (far from your house), or you can just dump it in the nearest canal (Cobras can swim).

This may sound like a crazy thing to do, but in the absence of screaming girls and men with sticks, most snakes will remain relatively calm, even after you snare them. As long as you handle them with respect and care you'll be a lot safer than you would be dancing around on your couch with a stick.

We had a snake in the boy's bathroom at our school last year. When I came on the scene I found the maid trying to beat it to death with a broom while the children danced in and out of the bathroom (the door was wide open) to get a peek. It was an entirely unsafe situation, and I quickly bustled the maid out and closed the door. Then I simply waited a bit for the snake to calm down, then walked over, coaxed it into a plastic garbage bag, and voila! problem solved.

It's really important to teach your kids proper respect for an important (but potentially dangerous) animal. Snakes and people can easily co-exist as long as learn to treat snakes correctly. For example, this year we had another snake out in front of the school (I also caught an owl two weeks ago, we get a lot of wildlife on campus). The kids in my class (who've had my safety lesson), calmly came and got me. The snake was hiding out in a bush while a ring of third graders (who haven't had my class), kicked the bush and tried to stomp on the snake. Again, that's bad.

After clearing the kids back a bit, I simply reached in and snatched the snake out of the bush. I had my jacket on so I didn't mind letting the snake strike my arm since it was only a young viper and not very big. I then scolded the older kids for "scaring the baby", and told the girls to stop screaming (why do they always scream about everything, ) because "baby snake wants to sleep". Then I just chucked the little guy over the fence.

A trip to the Queen Saovabha Memorial Institute on Rama IV Road is a real treat and you should take your kids when you get a chance. I guarantee they'll love it. It's not only a snake farm, but it's also a working hospital and manufactures anti-vemon for all sorts of venomous snakes. Plus they've got a King Cobra there that has to be nearly 4m or 5m long. It's HUGE and it's head is as big as my fist. I'm not scared of snakes at all, but let me tell you, when I squatted down to take some pictures (they bring it out for a snake show and I walked down next to it to get some good shots) and that thing looked me dead in the eyes, even my blood went a bit cold. There's a good reason they call them Kings. They are a truly mighty snake. Wow.

Edited March 28, 2005 by Pudgimelon

[Kringle]

Agree with most of what the pudgi said except during breeding season for some snakes, as they become very agressive during mating season and can also strike further than they stand depending on the breed. Never under estimate a snake. I used to catch skakes as a kid and later years and have more than a little respect of what they can or cannot do. What you learn in a "snake show' doesn't mean squat except to try and pass on some helpful information. Each snake has it's own priority and you have to deal with each one as you would any person. People are different and so are snakes. NEVER assume anything about what a snake CAN or CANNOT do. If you see it, move away.

[bkkmadness]

Excellent informative post for Pudgie,(though he never did tell me where to find good pool tables in Ratchada ), and one to teach all your kids.

I think also a rule with a cobra is the higher it it raised up the more likely the chance it will strike. As far as I know all snakes except for Mambas with are not in Thailand and have been known to chase people at speed, will back off away from human contact as soon as possible, saving the venom for a more dangerous encounter, so you have to make the snake feel less afraid, so no sudden movements.

Edited March 28, 2005 by bkkmadness

[EVO]

I dun like snakes. Being bitten hurts a lot.

Pudgi's post is well written and worth heading though. Trying to teach my daughter that all animals she doesnt like dont deserve to die is a nightmare!

[Bryan in Isaan]

I agree with Pudge that snakes would rather go away than attack, usually. I have observed that a lot around our place in the Isaan. We have lots of snakes here, including cobras. I also don't see the point in the natives automatically beating a snake to death and then seeing what kind it is. I usually try to identify it and then let it go. Usually they are trying to get away. Once while I was raking brush, a poisonous snake crawled right over my bare foot. He was trying to get away from my rake. I don't like to get that close to the poisonous ones.

I would not stake my life on it, but it looks like the poisonous snakes run away slowly and stand and fight if you provoke them, whereas the non poisonous snakes run away fast, and usually seem more afraid.

I would rather leave them alone, but I am concerned that my dogs will get blinded by the spitting cobras. They flush them out and bark like crazy. I feel like I have no choice but to kill the cobra (this just happened about 3 hours ago). Maybe Pudge or other snake experts have a better solution about snakes and dogs.

Bryan

Edited March 28, 2005 by Bryan in Isaan

[jonik]

who's afraid of a litle snake..........................................

http://raphaelpungin.com/onlyin/thailand.jpg

[RDN]

...I am concerned that my dogs will get blinded by the spitting cobras. ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My g/f's golden retriever died after being blinded by a snake. He stayed with her family in Chaiyaphum but got blinded by the snake, wouldn't eat and was then found dead by the side of a road. He used to go to the local klong or small reservoir with my g/f's younger sister and brother every day after school to cool off and get clean. Lots of the local kids knew him. Very sad.

[ProfessorFart]

Black Mambas DO NOT chase people. Its a myth!

Pudgi's advice is spot on. Leave well alone. Give the snake space to escape unmolested and it will not need a second offer. People get bitten when they start to flail away at the snake in a panic.

The Bamboo thing is an oldie. I've heard its because bamboo is hollow and creates a greater vibration which upsets the snake.

[devildog683]

Just got back Thailand to see my stepson (age 3 in July) who was bitten by a Cobra. They didnt treat him for 24 hours because they were unsure what bit him, then my brother-in-law found and killed the snake. After that he has recovered, but still undergoing physical therapy for his leg, which they originally thought he would lose. Very scary for me and my wife, he medically died 5 times in the first 2 days......these snakes are dangerous

[bkkmadness]

Black Mambas DO NOT chase people. Its a myth!

Pudgi's advice is spot on. Leave well alone. Give the snake space to escape unmolested and it will not need a second offer. People get bitten when they start to flail away at the snake in a panic.

The Bamboo thing is an oldie. I've heard its because bamboo is hollow and creates a greater vibration which upsets the snake.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think your right about the Mambas Prof, I must have read too many Willard Price books as a kid . Just google searched it and a lot of people saying it's a myth too, so there's another bit of childhood info that I have mindlessly accepted and told people about over the years which was a croc of s.hit.

Edited March 28, 2005 by bkkmadness

[cobra]

.... One of the neighbors took the snake home and ate it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm thinking the skin may also found it's way on to a belt ...

Scary situation, I've heard of houses, dwellings, sealed tight enough to keep insects out, yet snakes always seem to find a way in.

Clever creatures, you either love em or hate em ....

[Pudgimelon]

Maybe Pudge or other snake experts have a better solution about snakes and dogs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Trust me, dogs kill a lot more snakes than the other way around.

Likewise, people kill way more snakes than the other way around too.

Snakes are almost always on the losing end of any encounter between them and people or dogs. Even if they manage to strike, they can still be mortally wounded by their much larger antagonist. That is why snakes have a strong urge to flee, rather than fight, and if given the opportunity, they will simply leave.

Unfortunately, dogs and people rarely leave snakes alone (especially in Thailand). I wonder how many people are bitten trying to handle or kill a snake? Children are especially vulnerable because they either try to pick the animal up (bad) or jump around and scream a lot (very, very bad).

Which is why it's important to educate children about snakes. They need to understand, not fear, these animals. Understanding snakes will allow your child to react correctly to an encounter. They'll understand that they don't need to fear the snake, but they DO need to leave it alone and get away from it as quickly and as safely as possible.

The best way to protect your dog from snakes is to simply keep it out of areas that snakes like (tall grass, stone or wood piles, etc...). Of course, that's not always possible, so you'll just have to trust in your dog's natural abilities as a predator.

Unfortunately, Golden's have had most of that bred out of them. They tend to be big, stupid and playful, which is great for people, but snakes don't appreciate a Golden's natural curiosity and playfulness. A good Border Collie or Shepard would have probably had that cobra for breakfast, but Retrievers and Labs just don't have very much of that killer instinct.

Edited March 29, 2005 by Pudgimelon

[Pudgimelon]

Snakes are almost always on the losing end of any encounter between them and people or dogs.  Even if they manage to strike, they can still be mortally wounded by their much larger antagonist.  That is why snakes have a strong urge to flee, rather than fight, and if given the opportunity, they will simply leave.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Replying to myself here, but actually I just thought of a very good reason why it's important not to agitate a cobra (aside from the dying part).

A snake's natural instinct is to flee, and if given the opportunity, it will almost certainly turn and slither away as fast as it can.

However, Siamese Cobras CAN'T move when their hood is raised. So by agitating the cobra, you are, in fact, making it nearly impossible for the snake to get away.

The cobra is a creature of instinct, it MUST stand and fight when threatened. But if it's NOT threatened, then it can beat a hasty exit. So really the best way to deal with cobras is to give them a clear route to safety and then convince them to take it in a very gentle and non-aggressive manner.

[WhiteShiva]

Black Mambas DO NOT chase people. Its a myth!

Pudgi's advice is spot on. Leave well alone. Give the snake space to escape unmolested and it will not need a second offer. People get bitten when they start to flail away at the snake in a panic.

The Bamboo thing is an oldie. I've heard its because bamboo is hollow and creates a greater vibration which upsets the snake.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think your right about the Mambas Prof, I must have read too many Willard Price books as a kid . Just google searched it and a lot of people saying it's a myth too, so there's another bit of childhood info that I have mindlessly accepted and told people about over the years which was a croc of s.hit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My wife's parents have a cobra living in a bamboo grove a few hundred meters from their house. They didn't seem too concerned about it, though. They leave it alone, and vice versa. Would have thought a bamboo grove would be perfect for a snake to hide in - difficult for large animals to enter, while probably plenty of rodents, frogs, and other reptiles to feed on.

Trond

[chanchao]

> Very scary for me and my wife, he medically died 5 times

> in the first 2 days...

If that isn't a good reason why all snakes that come inside or close to houses should die then I don't know what is. If it comes close to people once then it will do so again. Kill all of them and they may learn; but the alternative (not learning and dieing) is pretty good, too.

> Trust me, dogs kill a lot more snakes than the other way around.

GOOD!

> Unfortunately, Golden's have had most of that bred out of them.

> They tend to be big, stupid and playful, which is great for people, but

> snakes don't appreciate a Golden's natural curiosity and playfulness.

I wonder if a lot of that isn't learned behavior.. After all, Golden's are totally likely to be kept as family-friend-indoor type pets. You don't learn about dangers outside that way.

But now looking at my own Golden, it was raised on a farm with the soi-dogs.. (or farm dogs, whatever). If it sees a snake it goes f'ing nuts barking and staying just out of reach. (By comparison, I never ever heard it bark or growl at people..) Back at the farm with a group of dogs likely another dog would take the snake out of its misery and send it on a one-way ticket to hell_.. But being by herself now she just keeps barking, waiting for backup.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[chanchao]

BTW, why is screaming from kids bad? I thought snakes didn't have ears anyway, and especially high-pitched screaming won't be alarming to them compared to lower vibrations? The screaming alerts others (good) so... Why not scream?

[Kringle]

Snakes don't have ears and dont hear ANYTHING but they do work on vibrations and screaming does send vibrations and ANY snake can work on that. All snakes work mostly on movement, smell and heat. A poisonous snake will bite it's prey and then wait for it to die (they let it die so the prey can't harm them), then work out by smell where it went. Some snakes swallow their prey alive like frogs but if the prey has the ability to inflict harm to the snake then it will kill the prey first and then eat.

Just as an added note, the picture with the little kid giving the boa a bath is a sign of real ignorance as far as I'm concerned as the size of this snake could easily eat this child and I think the proportion is 7-10 times the size of the head for what the snake can swallow.

[ProfessorFart]

Screaming will lead to a hysterical panic which in turn will lead to more vibrations than is needed.

As Pudgi says, ignorance is the biggest danger here to both man and snake. The twain can and should live in together in harmony.

Occasionally there will be a clash but if there is understanding about snakes and their habits these will be minimal and for the most part undramatic.

Snake numbers in Thailand have been on the slide alarmingly for the past 15 years mainly due to mis information. Its people like Pudgi who may make a difference. Well done mate.

[Gary A]

I'm all for letting the snakes live as long as they live away from the dwellings. Let's face it, you wouldn't want your dog or child bitten because they accidently bumped or picked up something the snake was under. Since there are very few mice or rats in this area I have to assume we have a good supply of snakes. I VERY seldom see snakes but I know they must be around. In fact the last one I saw started to come up on the front porch where I was sitting. I pointed him out to my girlfriend and she was quite happy. She says that was a good luck omen for us.

Screaming will lead to a hysterical panic which in turn will lead to more vibrations than is needed.

As Pudgi says, ignorance is the biggest danger here to both man and snake. The twain can and should live in together in harmony.

Occasionally there will be a clash but if there is understanding about snakes and their habits these will be minimal and for the most part undramatic.

Snake numbers in Thailand have been on the slide alarmingly for the past 15 years mainly due to mis information. Its people like Pudgi who may make a difference. Well done mate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Pudgimelon]

BTW, why is screaming from kids bad?  I thought snakes didn't have ears anyway, and especially high-pitched screaming won't be alarming to them compared to lower vibrations?    The screaming alerts others (good) so...  Why not scream?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, snakes can hear better than cats though it's unclear how they use this information. One theory is that they use their hearing sense to alert them of the approach of large animals (they hunt by smell and taste mostly). A child is a large animal (compared to the snake) and therefore screaming is bad as it may further agitate the snake.

And as someone else said, a screaming child is rarely motionless and certainly not completely rational.

An educated child knows that a snake is dangerous (and not to be messed with), but not super-duperly, unbelievably, uber-scarily, OH-MY-GOD-out-of-my-mind-with-panic dangerous. An educated child knows how to survive a snake encounter safely and can hopefully exit the snake's vicinity in a (more-calm-than-blind-panic) calm manner that reduces their risk of injury.

Edited March 29, 2005 by Pudgimelon

[maerim]

A poisonous snake will bite it's prey

As I understand it the snake may well be poisonous if you eat it and get sick but if it bites you and you get sick the snake is venomous.

[Kringle]

Pudgi, you are totally wrong about this as snakes FEEL vibrations, no ears, can't hear. Snakes CANNOT hear and you can go here to find out more:

http://web.ask.com/web?q=can+Snakes+hear%3F&qsrc=0&o=0

[wilko]

Black Mambas DO NOT chase people. Its a myth!

Pudgi's advice is spot on. Leave well alone. Give the snake space to escape unmolested and it will not need a second offer. People get bitten when they start to flail away at the snake in a panic.

The Bamboo thing is an oldie. I've heard its because bamboo is hollow and creates a greater vibration which upsets the snake.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No snakes chase people - people who swear to having been chased by a snake have usually put themselves between the animal and something important such as nest/burrow/young etc. Bites are usually the result of the animal being cornered or surprised. Snakes feel the vibrations of your footsteps and will shoot off in the opposite direction if they can. It is unfortunate the we humans living next to wild-life often in advertently create an environment that is inviting to animals that scare us. The best thing you can do if you don't want Cobras in your house/garden is find out what they like (rodents, frogs, etc) and don't provide it for them.

It’s a shame that so many of these creatures are killed. - I lived in Australia before Thailand and the thing I miss most is the abundance of wild-life there. It would seem that most of it here has been either killed or eaten!

Edited March 30, 2005 by wilko

[bkkmadness]

I'd say to your mate to get friendly with a couple of the local stray dogs (put some food out for them etc.) so they are always lurrking round his house day or night, good early warning system and snake killers.

[bakachan]

I dont have anything to add about snake. It seems to have been pretty well covered. I was really surprised about the black mamba. I swear I saw something

on the tele where a snake hunter in africa was hunting mamba's and he was

scared stiff of them. This guy was a pro too.

Ive got my own little snake tale in thailand. I was on a jungle tour with a thai guide

and I was right behind the guide. About 10 minutes into the hike he does a quick

about face and almost knocks me down. Up ahead was a tiny, i mean tiny bright green snake. The bright green probably meant, hey im venomous stay away, but

I was amazed at his fear of it. In his mind he probably saw this....

For all you oldie Jethro Tull fans

Jethro Tull - Black Mamba Lyrics

Hand in the snake pit - black mamba chase.

Head through the lion�s cage - head on a plate.

Two feet on the hot coals - last dance at the ball.

Blindfold on the tightrope - whenever you call.

Be my slippery slider, black mamba crawl over me.

Dark thoughts of the sleepless - hung out to dry.

Slip through the bedclothes - unblinking eye.

Long tongue flickering - fixed stare grip.

Sweet venomous potion, held to my lip.

Be my slippery slider, black mamba crwal over me.

A tropical whisper. a sibilant kiss.

Soft strike teasing. dangerous bliss.