Thailand Live Saturday 12 October 2024

[chiang mai]

Three abortive attempts in two weeks to view CM property that might suit my cousin, all three attempts imploded:

1) Saw a house on TV classified and contacted the Scandinavian owner who responded in nanoseconds with pictures and loving, if not anxious words - some emails later I agree to visit and view. Arrive in CM the next day and call at the appointed time and he says its been sold about two hours earlier! Very odd.

2) Saw a condo on a Thai website where I know the manager - pictures, nice words and confirmation of the price later I agree to view. I stop in Bangkok to switch planes to CM where I receive a call saying the selling price does not include 3% agents commission, sales tax and transfer fees which I would be required to pay! I passed.

3) Saw another house on TV classified and went through the same process but this time I waited before traveling - just as well because I got a phone call two days later saying another buyer was interested and if I wanted to buy I would have to increase my offer, I passed.

All very odd behavior which has left me wondering about the state of the market in CM and the integrity of some sellers.

[Warrioroo]

Rentals certainly seem active. I've had my house listed for rent for a week and already had 5-6 groups coming through, with more on the way...no offer yet, but looks promising. Same place is also listed for sale but no interest yet.

Agents i speak to say they are renting places everyday, but of course i'd say the same thing if i was an agent!

[lannarebirth]

It's difficult to know what's true about a whole market from anecdotal accounts. I'll add a couple of more but don't suggest it is marketwide behaviour; only my own observation.

My wife owns quite a bit of unimproved land in some rather scenic areas in close proximity to Chiang Mai. She has never listed any of it for sale. About 4 years ago an agent contacted her to say she had a buyer for one of her pieces of land (which wasn't for sale). Since this land wasn't "special" to her, my wife considered what she would need if she were to sell it and pay the agent. She told him and it was sold at her price.

About 1.5 years ago the exact same thing happened on another piece of property she owns. Because of the "financial crisis" she has been rolling over options to buy with the would be owner as they have been acting in good faith and are paying her to wait. In the meantime she has received more unsolicited offers at the same sales price.

I don't know what to make of any of this behaviour and don't claim it's marketwide. It's just odd, as you say. One thought I had is that maybe there is some kind of defacto devaluation in the baht going on amongst domestic holders, though that's probably an absurd notion. More likely buyers are weighing the 2% available at banks for time deposits and the slowly decreasing government guarantees of baht accouunt limits. Or it could be none of the above.

Edited October 15, 2009 by lannarebirth

[pjclark1]

My Thai rellys are out cruising around the CM area in their car at this moment looking for land to buy.

It seems to me that Thai's with a bit of spare cash seem to want to use it to buy land (at the right price)

The property market is pretty much dead as Thais (IMHO) don't like to make a capital loss.

A house near me, they want 12,000bth pcm rental or 4,000,000bht sale ...... (it should be 3,000,000bht)

No chance of selling at that price, but it should rent for about 10k

[iainiain101]

Three abortive attempts in two weeks to view CM property that might suit my cousin, all three attempts imploded:

1) Saw a house on TV classified and contacted the Scandinavian owner who responded in nanoseconds with pictures and loving, if not anxious words - some emails later I agree to visit and view. Arrive in CM the next day and call at the appointed time and he says its been sold about two hours earlier! Very odd.

2) Saw a condo on a Thai website where I know the manager - pictures, nice words and confirmation of the price later I agree to view. I stop in Bangkok to switch planes to CM where I receive a call saying the selling price does not include 3% agents commission, sales tax and transfer fees which I would be required to pay! I passed.

3) Saw another house on TV classified and went through the same process but this time I waited before traveling - just as well because I got a phone call two days later saying another buyer was interested and if I wanted to buy I would have to increase my offer, I passed.

All very odd behavior which has left me wondering about the state of the market in CM and the integrity of some sellers.

Most things will rent or sell at the right price.

The agent fee and price increase could be as a result of them knowing you were flying to CM to see the properties. They probably perceive you as being a very interested buyer....

Iain

[gotlost]

AND: A. Farang

B. Money

C. Sucker, no reflection

Real Estate is not moving and they are desperate.

[cmsally]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that has strange experiences with agents; I thought it was just me.

Most (OK I'm probably not going with the more advertised well known agents) are incredibly badly organised.

Some cannot even remember prices they told me one week before; which is good for me.

I think some work in tandem which is why you get conflicting reports and also many probably have to deal with sellers who change their mind.

I am negotiating a small condo at present and the experience is very interesting to say the least!

You need to stay as disinterested as possible and have a way of conveying you know your stuff otherwise you waste your time listening to all sorts of rubbish. Funny how there are always a number of millionaires and film stars looking for exactly the same as you.

[gotlost]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that has strange experiences with agents; I thought it was just me.

Most (OK I'm probably not going with the more advertised well known agents) are incredibly badly organised.

Some cannot even remember prices they told me one week before; which is good for me.

I think some work in tandem which is why you get conflicting reports and also many probably have to deal with sellers who change their mind.

I am negotiating a small condo at present and the experience is very interesting to say the least!

You need to stay as disinterested as possible and have a way of conveying you know your stuff otherwise you waste your time listening to all sorts of rubbish. Funny how there are always a number of millionaires and film stars looking for exactly the same as you.

I totally agree with your observation. The top 3 agents in Chiang Mai have an access of over 165 units low to 300 high listed for sell. I know two of the owners and like they say "it ain't like the good old days". Most of the agents have 30 to 60 units for sell. All I can say if you want to buy or sell be ware you have some shysters out there.

[chiang mai]

If indeed there were agents involved in any part of my three failed attempts I would not be surprised at the shenanigans - but all three sellers, whom I was dealing with directly, were western farang expats. And talking of agents, in the few hours that this thread has been active I have received three PM's from three different agents, all advertising their wares and all three will duly be ignored!

[gotlost]

If indeed there were agents involved in any part of my three failed attempts I would not be surprised at the shenanigans - but all three sellers, whom I was dealing with directly, were western farang expats. And talking of agents, in the few hours that this thread has been active I have received three PM's from three different agents, all advertising their wares and all three will duly be ignored!

I told you they were hurting. Isn't modern technology wonderful.

[cmsally]

If indeed there were agents involved in any part of my three failed attempts I would not be surprised at the shenanigans - but all three sellers, whom I was dealing with directly, were western farang expats. And talking of agents, in the few hours that this thread has been active I have received three PM's from three different agents, all advertising their wares and all three will duly be ignored!

With all due respect CM I don't think you have the radar fully switched on. Do you actually know that these people were the owners.

With regard to houses , how would a farang be an owner without company etc. etc.

If agents fees were mentioned clearly there was an agent involved.

Just as an example : a few years back I was interested in a piece of land in Sansai, in fact very interested and supposedly dealing with the owner. When it came to the nitty gritty he suddenly said he had to wait for his sister from BKK to come. Huh I said. When I looked at the Chanot it had her name on it - and it turned out she didn't want to sell. Wishful thinking on his part

Maybe he thought he would get a cash deposit before paperwork, who knows.

[chiang mai]

If indeed there were agents involved in any part of my three failed attempts I would not be surprised at the shenanigans - but all three sellers, whom I was dealing with directly, were western farang expats. And talking of agents, in the few hours that this thread has been active I have received three PM's from three different agents, all advertising their wares and all three will duly be ignored!

With all due respect CM I don't think you have the radar fully switched on. Do you actually know that these people were the owners.

With regard to houses , how would a farang be an owner without company etc. etc.

If agents fees were mentioned clearly there was an agent involved.

Just as an example : a few years back I was interested in a piece of land in Sansai, in fact very interested and supposedly dealing with the owner. When it came to the nitty gritty he suddenly said he had to wait for his sister from BKK to come. Huh I said. When I looked at the Chanot it had her name on it - and it turned out she didn't want to sell. Wishful thinking on his part

Maybe he thought he would get a cash deposit before paperwork, who knows.

A fair point so let me expand on some details:

1) the first house was owned by a Scandinavian man who is also a member of this forum and indeed that is where I found the ad - I checked his profile and he is a graphics designer who works in the region and that matched up with what he had told me - I also spoke to him on the phone and can guarantee he is Scandinavian.

2) number two is slightly more complicated but involved a Japanese man who used to be my neighbor when I lived at Floral CM and in this instance the grubby hands of agents were seen from a great distance, sprinting rapidly in my direction but from a distance nevertheless - but since the agent had done no work in identifying the property to me and the deal would have been directly one on one with Japan, it was only the late intervention of the agent on the sidelines, attempting to intervene in the deal to gain commission and playing the relationship card with Japan, combined with the absence of the true owner, that killed off the whole thing.

3) the third one is less certain but since I spoke to the American man involved twice I have every reason to believe he was not an agent, although I could be wrong.

Typically my radar on these things is quite good and I can usually detect an agent/salesman at more than a thousand miles although I accept that sensor does not always work.

[chiang mai]

If indeed there were agents involved in any part of my three failed attempts I would not be surprised at the shenanigans - but all three sellers, whom I was dealing with directly, were western farang expats. And talking of agents, in the few hours that this thread has been active I have received three PM's from three different agents, all advertising their wares and all three will duly be ignored!

I told you they were hurting. Isn't modern technology wonderful.

We're up to five now, better if any others don't waste their time.

[cmsally]

If indeed there were agents involved in any part of my three failed attempts I would not be surprised at the shenanigans - but all three sellers, whom I was dealing with directly, were western farang expats. And talking of agents, in the few hours that this thread has been active I have received three PM's from three different agents, all advertising their wares and all three will duly be ignored!

I told you they were hurting. Isn't modern technology wonderful.

We're up to five now, better if any others don't waste their time.

I think these experiences really go to show how complicated the real estate thing can get. In one case I went to view a condo with an agent whom had shown me one other unit the previous week. At first I thought there were other people viewing the same time as me, but it turned out she had invited 3 other agents. That's little old me and 4 agents all looking at the same small condo. My only supposition is that I was being shown to them and she was wanting a cut if I should end up being their customer.

Strange business real estate

[slapout]

real estate agents (term used loosely) here seem to have the same schooling/training as the local whiskey shop vendors. They woke up one morning with an idea of how to make money. In the former case a small cash investment was required while in the latter the local gossip committee puts them on to a potential customer (buyer or seller) they take either, and offer their acquaintances a portion of commission if they point them to other potential customers. The more learned get on the internet and try to do a deal with individuals who are in the market, either way. It is not unheard of for the sellers asking price to be inflated so as the excess monies will revert to them. The statement above "strange business real estate" may qualify as the understatement of the week.

[ChiangMai2]

If indeed there were agents involved in any part of my three failed attempts I would not be surprised at the shenanigans - but all three sellers, whom I was dealing with directly, were western farang expats. And talking of agents, in the few hours that this thread has been active I have received three PM's from three different agents, all advertising their wares and all three will duly be ignored!

I told you they were hurting. Isn't modern technology wonderful.

We're up to five now, better if any others don't waste their time.

That's "odd" behavior is it not? You are looking for property and have had some bad luck. One house sold before you could see it, another made you aware that the price didn't include the fee's and the other let you know that others were already interested in the property. So what !?!

If it were me I would welcome an agent or individual taking the initiative to proactively contact me and show me their offerings. Who knows they might have exactly what I'm looking for.. To ignore these opportunities is odd to me!

P.s. yes it was me that sent a pm offering a stately home with indoor tennis courts and helipad for 600K sorry to of wasted your time Weirdo !!

[chiang mai]

If indeed there were agents involved in any part of my three failed attempts I would not be surprised at the shenanigans - but all three sellers, whom I was dealing with directly, were western farang expats. And talking of agents, in the few hours that this thread has been active I have received three PM's from three different agents, all advertising their wares and all three will duly be ignored!

I told you they were hurting. Isn't modern technology wonderful.

We're up to five now, better if any others don't waste their time.

That's "odd" behavior is it not? You are looking for property and have had some bad luck. One house sold before you could see it, another made you aware that the price didn't include the fee's and the other let you know that others were already interested in the property. So what !?!

If it were me I would welcome an agent or individual taking the initiative to proactively contact me and show me their offerings. Who knows they might have exactly what I'm looking for.. To ignore these opportunities is odd to me!

P.s. yes it was me that sent a pm offering a stately home with indoor tennis courts and helipad for 600K sorry to of wasted your time Weirdo !!

If you put it in simplistic terms like those then yes, it just bad luck. But when you add the fact that all three sellers knew that I was making a trip from Phuket to Chiang Mai, specifically to see their properties, it adds another dimension which I think has to do with integrity and character, although you seem not to understand that!

As for Agents, well, I regret that I have had a life long dislike for them and will do best not to use them where ever possible, nothing personal in that, just a personal preference.

And finally, thank you for your PM regarding your property, it follows though that since you now think I'm a weirdo that I am unlikely to want to pursue that opportunity further, I'm sure you will understand.

[ChiangMai2]

Don't worry I would of sold it whilst you were in transit for viewing anyway.. Good luck with finding what your cousin wants, there is certainly no shortage of houses available.

P.S. Urban dictionary's definition of a weirdo.. That's obviously what I meant

Weirdo

the true definition of cool, weirdos are the real deal folks.

the weirder the better! weirdos rock.

[getgoin]

I have a bridge for sale. PM me if you are interested. No broker's fees.

[drtreelove]

The statement above "strange business real estate" may qualify as the understatement of the week.

So true, as I've seen from my wife's experience in the business here; ethical behaviour, honesty and integrity are not a usual part of the picture. Backstabbing, flip-flopping on agreements, changes in asking prices, lies and deceipt, and just plain stupid, illogical behavior are commonplace, on the part of agents and sellers, especially sellers, Thai and farang.

Don't trust anyone, except maybe a friend or on a recommendation; even then be careful. It's not a regulated or civilized business here.

[drtreelove]

Don't trust anyone, except maybe a friend or on a recommendation; even then be careful. It's not a regulated or civilized business here.

I should qualify that out of respect to a TV sponser and one of the few agencies that I would trust. Sunbelt spearheaded an attempt to organize a multiple listing service among brokerages here in CM, which would would have been a great benefit for all parties, agents, buyers and sellers, but it failed because of lack of commitment by most other agencies who were invited to participate.

[gotlost]

Lets see: Car salesman, shoe salesman, Attorney, Real estate salesman. Whats wrong with this list.

[elektrified]

If indeed there were agents involved in any part of my three failed attempts I would not be surprised at the shenanigans - but all three sellers, whom I was dealing with directly, were western farang expats. And talking of agents, in the few hours that this thread has been active I have received three PM's from three different agents, all advertising their wares and all three will duly be ignored!

Being that farangs are not allowed under the law to purchase or own real property in Thailand, the notion that the these sellers were "western farang expats" and that a farang is in the market to make a purchase is somewhat of a joke. Don't you think?

[gotlost]

If indeed there were agents involved in any part of my three failed attempts I would not be surprised at the shenanigans - but all three sellers, whom I was dealing with directly, were western farang expats. And talking of agents, in the few hours that this thread has been active I have received three PM's from three different agents, all advertising their wares and all three will duly be ignored!

Being that farangs are not allowed under the law to purchase or own real property in Thailand, the notion that the these sellers were "western farang expats" and that a farang is in the market to make a purchase is somewhat of a joke. Don't you think?

NO, science three out of the top four realators in CM are farang owned.

Edited October 17, 2009 by gotlost

[elektrified]

A fair point so let me expand on some details:

1) the first house was owned by a Scandinavian man who is also a member of this forum and indeed that is where I found the ad - I checked his profile and he is a graphics designer who works in the region and that matched up with what he had told me - I also spoke to him on the phone and can guarantee he is Scandinavian.

2) number two is slightly more complicated but involved a Japanese man who used to be my neighbor when I lived at Floral CM and in this instance the grubby hands of agents were seen from a great distance, sprinting rapidly in my direction but from a distance nevertheless - but since the agent had done no work in identifying the property to me and the deal would have been directly one on one with Japan, it was only the late intervention of the agent on the sidelines, attempting to intervene in the deal to gain commission and playing the relationship card with Japan, combined with the absence of the true owner, that killed off the whole thing.

3) the third one is less certain but since I spoke to the American man involved twice I have every reason to believe he was not an agent, although I could be wrong.

Typically my radar on these things is quite good and I can usually detect an agent/salesman at more than a thousand miles although I accept that sensor does not always work.

This is like reading a novel.

[gotlost]

A fair point so let me expand on some details:

1) the first house was owned by a Scandinavian man who is also a member of this forum and indeed that is where I found the ad - I checked his profile and he is a graphics designer who works in the region and that matched up with what he had told me - I also spoke to him on the phone and can guarantee he is Scandinavian.

2) number two is slightly more complicated but involved a Japanese man who used to be my neighbor when I lived at Floral CM and in this instance the grubby hands of agents were seen from a great distance, sprinting rapidly in my direction but from a distance nevertheless - but since the agent had done no work in identifying the property to me and the deal would have been directly one on one with Japan, it was only the late intervention of the agent on the sidelines, attempting to intervene in the deal to gain commission and playing the relationship card with Japan, combined with the absence of the true owner, that killed off the whole thing.

3) the third one is less certain but since I spoke to the American man involved twice I have every reason to believe he was not an agent, although I could be wrong.

Typically my radar on these things is quite good and I can usually detect an agent/salesman at more than a thousand miles although I accept that sensor does not always work.

This is like reading a novel.

If you think this thread is long try reading the thread on the best fish an chips, pushing 6000 hits. The when your finished try Gone with Wind.

[Ricardo]

Lets see: Car salesman, shoe salesman, Attorney, Real estate salesman. Whats wrong with this list.

Doesn't include politician, double-glazing salesman or management-consultant ?

[cmsally]

Couldn't resist posting. Advert I looked at today for ONE condo unit had pictures of 3 different kitchens and at least 2 different rooms! All in the same advert. It was only a studio so that much variety in 40m2 was simply impossible!

[elektrified]

A fair point so let me expand on some details:

1) the first house was owned by a Scandinavian man who is also a member of this forum and indeed that is where I found the ad - I checked his profile and he is a graphics designer who works in the region and that matched up with what he had told me - I also spoke to him on the phone and can guarantee he is Scandinavian.

2) number two is slightly more complicated but involved a Japanese man who used to be my neighbor when I lived at Floral CM and in this instance the grubby hands of agents were seen from a great distance, sprinting rapidly in my direction but from a distance nevertheless - but since the agent had done no work in identifying the property to me and the deal would have been directly one on one with Japan, it was only the late intervention of the agent on the sidelines, attempting to intervene in the deal to gain commission and playing the relationship card with Japan, combined with the absence of the true owner, that killed off the whole thing.

3) the third one is less certain but since I spoke to the American man involved twice I have every reason to believe he was not an agent, although I could be wrong.

Typically my radar on these things is quite good and I can usually detect an agent/salesman at more than a thousand miles although I accept that sensor does not always work.

This is like reading a novel.

If you think this thread is long try reading the thread on the best fish an chips, pushing 6000 hits. The when your finished try Gone with Wind.

I meant in the sense that the post was fiction; i.e. Scandinavians, Americans, and Japanese owning real property in Thailand. A condominium maybe...

Edited October 17, 2009 by elektrified

[chiang mai]

A fair point so let me expand on some details:

1) the first house was owned by a Scandinavian man who is also a member of this forum and indeed that is where I found the ad - I checked his profile and he is a graphics designer who works in the region and that matched up with what he had told me - I also spoke to him on the phone and can guarantee he is Scandinavian.

2) number two is slightly more complicated but involved a Japanese man who used to be my neighbor when I lived at Floral CM and in this instance the grubby hands of agents were seen from a great distance, sprinting rapidly in my direction but from a distance nevertheless - but since the agent had done no work in identifying the property to me and the deal would have been directly one on one with Japan, it was only the late intervention of the agent on the sidelines, attempting to intervene in the deal to gain commission and playing the relationship card with Japan, combined with the absence of the true owner, that killed off the whole thing.

3) the third one is less certain but since I spoke to the American man involved twice I have every reason to believe he was not an agent, although I could be wrong.

Typically my radar on these things is quite good and I can usually detect an agent/salesman at more than a thousand miles although I accept that sensor does not always work.

This is like reading a novel.

If you think this thread is long try reading the thread on the best fish an chips, pushing 6000 hits. The when your finished try Gone with Wind.

I meant in the sense that the post was fiction; i.e. Scandinavians, Americans, and Japanese owning real property in Thailand. A condominium maybe...

If you read the OP carefully you will note that the second property was indeed a condominium, you can tell that because it says, condominium!

As for farangs not being able to own houses in Thailand and even worse, farangs wanting to buy houses, I'm confused. Farangs have always been able to own houses in Thailand but not land and the many thousands of farangs in Thailand will atest to that fact. Now, the question of how a farang may have bought a house many years ago and how a farang might wish to buy a house today is different because enforcement of existing laws has been tightened over time, but none of that stops farangs selling or buying houses today, as they tend to do.