Prem Plays Down Rift With Chavalit

[webfact]

Prem plays down rift with Chavalit

By The Nation

Published on October 16, 2009

Prem plays down rift with Chavalit

Chief royal adviser General Prem Tinsulanonda has hit back at Pheu Thai chief adviser Chavalit Yongchaiyudh, by questioning why the latter cast doubt on their ties.

"Jiew and I have been close friends for several years and we have worked for one another. Therefore our friendship always remains intact," Prem said, referring to Chavalit by his nickname.

Prem's comments came in reaction to press reports that Chavalit claimed he received a cold shoulder from the Privy Council chief.

On Tuesday, after coming out of retirement to adopt the Pheu Thai Party banner, Chavalit dismissed speculation he was on a fence-mending mission to mediate between Prem and fugitive ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra.

Chavalit reportedly said he was denied access to pay respect to Prem ahead of Chavalit's ordination as a Buddhist monk last year. He also lamented that Prem scolded him as a traitor for deciding to team up with Thaksin's political allies in the main opposition party.

"I read in the news that someone, maybe Jiew, was saying I refused to meet him to grant forgiveness ahead of his ordination - this is not how friends should treat one another. But the fact is, I was never informed when or where Jiew entered the monkhood," he said.

Reading between the lines, Prem's remarks imply that Chavalit, a former Army chief and prime minister in 1996-1997, never sought to meet him.

In rebutting the "traitor" remarks, Prem said he did not try to label or blame Chavalit.

He recounted that as soon as he learnt about Chavalit's pending decision to join Pheu Thai, he dispatched an aide to relay his message.

"The aide wrote down my remarks in order to convey my exact words - he should form a decision with prudence, otherwise he may be seen as a traitor," he said.

His key word was "prudence", he said, insisting that none of his remarks could be construed as a scold. He said that as a friend he had the right to caution Chavalit about what he perceived as a hasty move.

Prem said his doors remained open to welcome Chavalit if time permitted and if the meeting would not touch on politics, since he had no involvement in politics.

-- The Nation 2009/10/16

[animatic]

One sounds pretty 'jump and then rebound', come what may,

the other measured and considered in words and deeds.

I know which I prefer in a leader or elder statesman.

[jayboy]

One sounds pretty 'jump and then rebound', come what may,

the other measured and considered in words and deeds.

I know which I prefer in a leader or elder statesman.

Who knows what Chavalit's motivation might be?

However on the subject of acts of betrayal against the country, I am not sure Jiew has offended - though plenty of foolishness in his past to be sure.

But as to the leader/elder statesman you refer to, the historians of the future will in my view not judge him kindly.In the current hothouse of Thai politics it's impossible for a cool calm take on his actions.

[bunnaag]

Chavalits motivation are the wishes of his wife.The Democrats should be happy that this person became the chief advisor of their opponents.He will destroy them from the inside if they do not kick him out again.I still remember the time when he was Army Chief.He started the Isaan kieauw projekt.His soldiers came with heavy equipment and dug big deep holes all over the place.When it was raining water flowed into these holes and it did not take long and they were dry again.They forgot to seal the bottom and the embankments of these holes.I am sure his wisdom did not improve over time.

[frodo]

Had to laugh when I read elsewhere today that Jatuporn Prompan claims that Chavalit has more democratic values than Prem, even though Chavalit has stated in the past he supports and wants to see a coup against the current government. With Jatuporn, if a coup benefits him and his group, it's called democracy, if it benefits another, it's called dictatorship. Jatuporn certainly helps his cause.

[jayboy]

Had to laugh when I read elsewhere today that Jatuporn Prompan claims that Chavalit has more democratic values than Prem, even though Chavalit has stated in the past he supports and wants to see a coup against the current government. With Jatuporn, if a coup benefits him and his group, it's called democracy, if it benefits another, it's called dictatorship. Jatuporn certainly helps his cause.

What one apparently just talks about, the other has actually masterminded.Jatuporn's point holds.

[Thai at Heart]

One sounds pretty 'jump and then rebound', come what may,

the other measured and considered in words and deeds.

I know which I prefer in a leader or elder statesman.

Who knows what Chavalit's motivation might be?

However on the subject of acts of betrayal against the country, I am not sure Jiew has offended - though plenty of foolishness in his past to be sure.

But as to the leader/elder statesman you refer to, the historians of the future will in my view not judge him kindly.In the current hothouse of Thai politics it's impossible for a cool calm take on his actions.

I think the most obvious issue is why mention the fact that joining the PTP should be considered a "betrayal". Statements like these are never given to the public in their strident form and are always left open for interpretation. A betrayal against whom? Against Prem? Against the country? Against the army?

Either way, Prem has put his oar into the soup and stirred it up again. Like it or not, when he speaks it pays to pay attention. Unfortunately, speaking in riddles means that anyone can interpret it as though Chavalit is betraying someone or something, which is a pretty serious accusation.

Edited October 16, 2009 by Thai at Heart

[clausewitz]

The important thing to rmember is that Prem never involves himself in politics because being a privy council member he is above all that and ...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Prem-Concern...un-t252703.html

[Thai at Heart]

The important thing to rmember is that Prem never involves himself in politics because being a privy council member he is above all that and ...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Prem-Concern...un-t252703.html

Oh of course. It was just a discourse between old friends where he sort of mentioned that a mate who happens to have been prime minister might be betraying someone. I do that with my old mates all the time.

But of course one wouldn't want to interfere. Oh oops, I didn't know my mate has rejoined a political party. Isn't life complicated treading on eggshells when old friends are in politics. PM's here, cabinet ministers there, it's just so complicated.

[clausewitz]

In rebutting the "traitor" remarks, Prem said he did not try to label or blame Chavalit.

He recounted that as soon as he learnt about Chavalit's pending decision to join Pheu Thai, he dispatched an aide to relay his message.

"The aide wrote down my remarks in order to convey my exact words - he should form a decision with prudence, otherwise he may be seen as a traitor," he said.

His key word was "prudence", he said, insisting that none of his remarks could be construed as a scold. He said that as a friend he had the right to caution Chavalit about what he perceived as a hasty move.

Prem said his doors remained open to welcome Chavalit if time permitted and if the meeting would not touch on politics, since [/i]he had no involvement in politics.

Yep, he has no involvement in politics.

[frodo]

Which side of the fence does Chavalit actually play on?

Quoting CNS Chairman Gen Sonthi Boonyaratglin, the article said it was Chavalit who called for a coup against the Thaksin government during a class reunion of the Army Special Operations Centre's alumni a few months before the coup really took place.

"Chavalit once called for a coup and it finally took place. That was a proof what he said could not be totally overlooked. The old soldier never die," said the article.

Chavalit's Political Bombshell

[webfact]

I haven't removed one post, as the intent is quite clear. However I have the

quote restored to its original. Please read this thread

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Point-Point-...es-t287357.html and the forum rules:

29. To not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color

changes, added emoticons, or altered wording.

[h90]

One sounds pretty 'jump and then rebound', come what may,

the other measured and considered in words and deeds.

I know which I prefer in a leader or elder statesman.

Who knows what Chavalit's motivation might be?

However on the subject of acts of betrayal against the country, I am not sure Jiew has offended - though plenty of foolishness in his past to be sure.

But as to the leader/elder statesman you refer to, the historians of the future will in my view not judge him kindly.In the current hothouse of Thai politics it's impossible for a cool calm take on his actions.

I think the most obvious issue is why mention the fact that joining the PTP should be considered a "betrayal". Statements like these are never given to the public in their strident form and are always left open for interpretation. A betrayal against whom? Against Prem? Against the country? Against the army?

Either way, Prem has put his oar into the soup and stirred it up again. Like it or not, when he speaks it pays to pay attention. Unfortunately, speaking in riddles means that anyone can interpret it as though Chavalit is betraying someone or something, which is a pretty serious accusation.

Betrayal against whom???

PTP is Thaksins party who want to be first president (openly outspoken from his son)

Thaksin who has stohlen so much money from Thailand: betrayal of the Taxpayer

Thaksin who has murdered 3000 people in his war against drugs

Thaksin who rent a mob which told that they ignite gas trucks in Bangkok

It is a betrayal against everyone who can't be bought for 500 Baht.

[Thai at Heart]

One sounds pretty 'jump and then rebound', come what may,

the other measured and considered in words and deeds.

I know which I prefer in a leader or elder statesman.

Who knows what Chavalit's motivation might be?

However on the subject of acts of betrayal against the country, I am not sure Jiew has offended - though plenty of foolishness in his past to be sure.

But as to the leader/elder statesman you refer to, the historians of the future will in my view not judge him kindly.In the current hothouse of Thai politics it's impossible for a cool calm take on his actions.

I think the most obvious issue is why mention the fact that joining the PTP should be considered a "betrayal". Statements like these are never given to the public in their strident form and are always left open for interpretation. A betrayal against whom? Against Prem? Against the country? Against the army?

Either way, Prem has put his oar into the soup and stirred it up again. Like it or not, when he speaks it pays to pay attention. Unfortunately, speaking in riddles means that anyone can interpret it as though Chavalit is betraying someone or something, which is a pretty serious accusation.

Betrayal against whom???

PTP is Thaksins party who want to be first president (openly outspoken from his son)

Thaksin who has stohlen so much money from Thailand: betrayal of the Taxpayer

Thaksin who has murdered 3000 people in his war against drugs

Thaksin who rent a mob which told that they ignite gas trucks in Bangkok

It is a betrayal against everyone who can't be bought for 500 Baht.

Which probably represents a pretty small number of the electorate.

[h90]

It is a betrayal against everyone who can't be bought for 500 Baht.

Which probably represents a pretty small number of the electorate.

cynical but true....

[Rumfoord]

I haven't removed one post, as the intent is quite clear. However I have the

quote restored to its original. Please read this thread

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Point-Point-...es-t287357.html and the forum rules:

there are differences between various ways to quote in an entry.

.........................

In rebutting the "traitor" remarks, Prem said he did not try to label or blame Chavalit.

He recounted that as soon as he learnt about Chavalit's pending decision to join Pheu Thai, he dispatched an aide to relay his message.

His key word was "prudence", he said, insisting that none of his remarks could be construed as a scold. He said that as a friend he had the right to caution Chavalit about what he perceived as a hasty move.

Prem said his doors remained open to welcome Chavalit if time permitted and if the meeting would not touch on politics, since he had no involvement in politics.

.........................

that has still the reference to the entry made by the member webfact. shouldt not be edited.

but what about when a quote is made in this way:

.........................

In rebutting the "traitor" remarks, Prem said he did not try to label or blame Chavalit.

He recounted that as soon as he learnt about Chavalit's pending decision to join Pheu Thai, he dispatched an aide to relay his message.

His key word was "prudence", he said, insisting that none of his remarks could be construed as a scold. He said that as a friend he had the right to caution Chavalit about what he perceived as a hasty move.

Prem said his doors remained open to welcome Chavalit if time permitted and if the meeting would not touch on politics, since he had no involvement in politics.

Yep, he has no involvement in politics

.........................

it is just a quote of a third source, a News Paper article and not a quote of an other members entry. see the difference, see there is no more reference to webfact. no time stamp, no member name, no arrow icon. edits ot not, the problem i would see here is that name of the source is not given, nor a proper link to the original online article (unfortunately such links are rare, also not given by George or other moderators opening a news topic here)

and how about to quote like this:

.........................

In rebutting the "traitor" remarks, Prem said he did not try to label or blame Chavalit.

He recounted that as soon as he learnt about Chavalit's pending decision to join Pheu Thai, he dispatched an aide to relay his message.

His key word was "prudence", he said, insisting that none of his remarks could be construed as a scold. He said that as a friend he had the right to caution Chavalit about what he perceived as a hasty move.

Prem said his doors remained open to welcome Chavalit if time permitted and if the meeting would not touch on politics, since he had no involvement in politics.

source: The Nation emphasis added by Rumfoord/my own emphasis

of course, there is no involvment in politics.

.........................

edits of another members own words is a different thing and rightly a DO NOT! obey rule number 29. "To not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording."

but it should be allowed as a way to quote a third party. the quote tags aren't just the best choice layout wise, because they are normally used to quote entries of other members and not newspaper or similar sources.

i would recommend to use Indent and optionally italic for such a purpose.

example below:

.........................

to know more about Prems involvment in politics i recommend to read an article from The Nation:

In rebutting the "traitor" remarks, Prem said he did not try to label or blame Chavalit.

He recounted that as soon as he learnt about Chavalit's pending decision to join Pheu Thai, he dispatched an aide to relay his message.

"The aide wrote down my remarks in order to convey my exact words - he should form a decision with prudence, otherwise he may be seen as a traitor," he said.

His key word was "prudence", he said, insisting that none of his remarks could be construed as a scold. He said that as a friend he had the right to caution Chavalit about what he perceived as a hasty move.

Prem said his doors remained open to welcome Chavalit if time permitted and if the meeting would

not touch on politics, since he had no involvement in politics.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/10/16...cs_30114576.php

i put the most important part in bold

.........................

[clausewitz]

Thanks for taking the time to explain this Rumfoord

[jasreeve17]

In rebutting the "traitor" remarks, Prem said he did not try to label or blame Chavalit.

He recounted that as soon as he learnt about Chavalit's pending decision to join Pheu Thai, he dispatched an aide to relay his message.

"The aide wrote down my remarks in order to convey my exact words - he should form a decision with prudence, otherwise he may be seen as a traitor," he said.

His key word was "prudence", he said, insisting that none of his remarks could be construed as a scold. He said that as a friend he had the right to caution Chavalit about what he perceived as a hasty move.

Prem said his doors remained open to welcome Chavalit if time permitted and if the meeting would not touch on politics, since [/i]he had no involvement in politics.

Yep, he has no involvement in politics.

No place in Thai politics for this. But, no place in Thai politics for coups either...

Right here is the biggest single problem in Thai politics. I agree that history will not be kind to this gent.

[hammered]

Chavalit is infamous for his remarks. Nicely played PR game by him that plays well to the red propoganda.

Sad thing though is the return of Chavalit to politcs at the age of 80. Everythiung he has touched politically has been a disaster and even his supposed military prowess is not all it was claimed. It will be interesting to see if class 5 remain silent on things around 1997 although they have always been supportive of Thaksin so may well remain so. I wonder if all those red supporters who labelled Chamlong as the man who led the demonstrators to their deaths in 1992 will be so scathing of their new leader who had a more interesting role in those events.

Anyway putting everything intoi the overall current context we look like we are in for a bumpy ride. The timing of all the old sidelined generals riding their horses into camp PTP isnt accidental.

[Thai at Heart]

Chavalit is infamous for his remarks. Nicely played PR game by him that plays well to the red propoganda.

Sad thing though is the return of Chavalit to politcs at the age of 80. Everythiung he has touched politically has been a disaster and even his supposed military prowess is not all it was claimed. It will be interesting to see if class 5 remain silent on things around 1997 although they have always been supportive of Thaksin so may well remain so. I wonder if all those red supporters who labelled Chamlong as the man who led the demonstrators to their deaths in 1992 will be so scathing of their new leader who had a more interesting role in those events.

Anyway putting everything intoi the overall current context we look like we are in for a bumpy ride. The timing of all the old sidelined generals riding their horses into camp PTP isnt accidental.

I find it interesting that Prem had to refute a supposed statement made by Chavalit. It will be interesting if he really gets down and dirty with local politics outside Bangkok because he might be able to disturb Newin. Maybe there is an old group in Isaan that owe him something? Maybe even Newin's old man owes him something?

I think most of the people in Thailand treat him as a golden oldie with pull among certain groups, not least certain parts of the army. I don't think he will ever be tarred with being a bad army commander because, he never had a chance to be a good one.

1997, water long under the bridge, and that was all Soros' fault. 1992, I reckon most of Thailand doesn't even know half the truth.

He is a golden oldie wanting one last fling, if he can push Abhisit off his stride a little bit, he will be pretty happy. I doubt he can deliver what Thaksin wants.

[jayboy]

1997, water long under the bridge, and that was all Soros' fault.

Care to explain because without clarification this is just a tired old piece of economic illiteracy.

[animatic]

1997, water long under the bridge, and that was all Soros' fault.

Care to explain because without clarification this is just a tired old piece of economic illiteracy.

The only one blaming Soros for everything was the martinet running Malaysia for so long.

He was Mathaher's western whipping boy over the whole thing, a well known, non-muslem name to blame.

In Thailand Chavalit was asleep at the switch, minding his ego and his children (the people),

and then blamed some of them, when he mis read the tea leaves, his own advisors, and a host of

international financial observers, and let Thailand tip over the edge. The '97 crash was made greatly

worse for Chavalit's mismanagements and general obtuseness...

I doubt he has gained any ground mentally since then....

[Thai at Heart]

1997, water long under the bridge, and that was all Soros' fault.

Care to explain because without clarification this is just a tired old piece of economic illiteracy.

That was a tongue in cheek remark. Does anyone in Thailand actively debate or discuss whether Chavalit's mismanagement caused the 1997 crash anymore?

1997 was 13 years ago and as far as I know among most Thai businessmen that I know today, is gone as an issue. The government directly after the crash went to great ends as I remember to tar Soros with causing the problem and also the IMF with not really helping to solve it.

The policy was waiting to be broken. It was extreme economic naivety and imbalances that created it. Not unlike the situation in the last year with China creating a lending bubble in the US, but now the Asian exporters are getting screwed the other way around. Lest we forget that the Baht was fixed at 25 for a very considerable time.

The finger pointers weren't entirely wrong, although if I had been able to raise as much money as Soros to bet against the Baht, knowing that they had a fixed exchange rate with free capital flow, it was an absolute inevitability.

[hammered]

Chavalit is infamous for his remarks. Nicely played PR game by him that plays well to the red propoganda.

Sad thing though is the return of Chavalit to politcs at the age of 80. Everythiung he has touched politically has been a disaster and even his supposed military prowess is not all it was claimed. It will be interesting to see if class 5 remain silent on things around 1997 although they have always been supportive of Thaksin so may well remain so. I wonder if all those red supporters who labelled Chamlong as the man who led the demonstrators to their deaths in 1992 will be so scathing of their new leader who had a more interesting role in those events.

Anyway putting everything intoi the overall current context we look like we are in for a bumpy ride. The timing of all the old sidelined generals riding their horses into camp PTP isnt accidental.

I find it interesting that Prem had to refute a supposed statement made by Chavalit. It will be interesting if he really gets down and dirty with local politics outside Bangkok because he might be able to disturb Newin. Maybe there is an old group in Isaan that owe him something? Maybe even Newin's old man owes him something?

I think most of the people in Thailand treat him as a golden oldie with pull among certain groups, not least certain parts of the army. I don't think he will ever be tarred with being a bad army commander because, he never had a chance to be a good one.

1997, water long under the bridge, and that was all Soros' fault. 1992, I reckon most of Thailand doesn't even know half the truth.

He is a golden oldie wanting one last fling, if he can push Abhisit off his stride a little bit, he will be pretty happy. I doubt he can deliver what Thaksin wants.

Chavalit is actually regarded as virtually insane by many. His comments are notorious for being impossible to undertsand and have been for over a decade. A golden oldie? A complete disaster? Chavalit brings nothing in the Isaan that Thaksin cant bring himself. Thaksin basically relieved Chavalit of his entire Isaan based party back after Chavlit found funding it beyond his means and Thaksin took the lionking the people of the Isaan to TRT furhter than Chavalit had with NAP.

Chavalit does have some leverage in the military but not as much as many others. He wrecked that back when he upset class 5 (who oddly enough have always smiled fondly on Thaksin, and who less oddly enough sat back and enjoyed watching Chavalit sink in 1997 with no chance of military intervetion to save his face). What Chaavlit does bring to PTP is links to certain other groups that were intimated on in a BKK post print article recently and who could be quite useful in short circuiting government longetivity especially in a crisis and we could be seeing a few of those in the coming months

[hammered]

1997, water long under the bridge, and that was all Soros' fault.

Care to explain because without clarification this is just a tired old piece of economic illiteracy.

The Soros line was pushed by those who were caught dropping the ball and by those locals who made a mint on the revaluation but didnt want to be seen as being er disloyal to the country or profiteering out of misery of fellow countrymen. The foreign bogeyman. The local media pushed it for them. It is still widely believed by many lower middle class Thai people who were hurt/lost everything in the crash. It is alwasy interesting to talk to these people about 1997 but they are pretty badly informed imho.

[h90]

1997, water long under the bridge, and that was all Soros' fault.

Care to explain because without clarification this is just a tired old piece of economic illiteracy.

The Soros line was pushed by those who were caught dropping the ball and by those locals who made a mint on the revaluation but didnt want to be seen as being er disloyal to the country or profiteering out of misery of fellow countrymen. The foreign bogeyman. The local media pushed it for them. It is still widely believed by many lower middle class Thai people who were hurt/lost everything in the crash. It is alwasy interesting to talk to these people about 1997 but they are pretty badly informed imho.

Got told some in the government made an enormous profit on the devaluation of the Baht.

Can't recall the details and too lazy to dig into it, but I recall Mr. Square Head was one of the profit maker.

[hammered]

That rumour went around at the time and has never gone away. Chavalit oddly enough was reckoned to be one who suffered greatly resulting in his inablity to keep the NAP going and the taking over of it by Thakisn. The stories on Thaksin vary greatly from he was very well hedged unlike others to him exchanging crates of bank notes. Bear in mind that at the time he wasnt a big political player or a target for vilification.

Anyway it enough to say that the return of Chavalit isnt a positive in any way. Even some red shirts seem to regard it that way

[Plus]

There was a rabid anti-Soros campaign here, he even had to cancel his speech at FCCT once.

One of the leaders was Veera Somkwamkid (Preah Vihear rally last month). Not to be outdone, Weng Tojarakan, big red intellectual, was Veera's partner at that time.

[hammered]

There was a rabid anti-Soros campaign here, he even had to cancel his speech at FCCT once.

One of the leaders was Veera Somkwamkid (Preah Vihear rally last month). Not to be outdone, Weng Tojarakan, big red intellectual, was Veera's partner at that time.

I wouldnt use that word personally. They are all guns for hire for a variey of causes and history doesnt really paint any of them in a very good light. Still they like the sound of their own voices and a chance fora bit of power, money or justa crowd or two who will look up to them. It will be a while before thailand moves on from this kind of thing imho.

The Soros stuff was disinformation/misinformation but lapped up by ther nationalists ie virtually everyone

[TheGoodDoctor]

Prem has such beautiful hair. I bet quite a few Thai Visa users are envious.