Deliberate Overstay

[lopburi3]

The Immigration police often give that advise - but - if you are arrested or checked by police you can be set up for extortion or arrest if on overstay and that advise from Immigration is not going to sway the judge. But 99% of the time that will not happen so it is a lottery. I personally would not play that game.

[ericthai]

The Immigration police often give that advise - but - if you are arrested or checked by police you can be set up for extortion or arrest if on overstay and that advise from Immigration is not going to sway the judge. But 99% of the time that will not happen so it is a lottery. I personally would not play that game.

I don't understand your comment be suet up for Extortion? Where is he threating someone? Not trying to give you a hard time, I just don't understand what you are trying to say, I agree about the over stay.

[lopburi3]

I am saying the police who find you in violation of the law have been known to use such activities. I am not talking about Immigration officer that advised you - who is trying to make it easy for you..

[ericthai]

Lopburi,

Never mind I re-read it and understand what you are saying now, the police may try to Extort money from him. I was thinking you where saying he could get in trouble for overstay and Extortion. Sorry being stupid tonight.

[rethaired]

Since some people seem to be extremely "concerned" about following rules and being legal, let me flip things around, since the topic is overstay of one day.

Let's agree that one day is 24 hours. That is the intent of the rule. You can stay in Thailand 30 days or 60 days and that implies 30 X 24 hours. So, technically, they should respect their laws first, IMHO.

I had a case which highlights the problem very clearly since it is such an extreme case. I came to Thailand at night, landing at 11:30 p.m. Is 30 min. one day? Not in my books. Of course, it can be construed as being one day if one asks a lawyer! Sure, you land on Jan. 15, Jan. 15 is the day you start things. But, seriously,... one day is 24 hours, last time I went to school. If one day is not one day, then the rules should be changed to include HOURS of arrival. We are paying for 60 days, not 59 days! I would think that immigration officers and custom officers should be a bit more lenient and accommodating. This is Thailand after all! Right?

Could the kind people of Thailand and immigration rectify* the situation please?

* (from the Latin "make it right")

PS: I suppose other countries are probably using the same system that Thailand is using, ... in which case, maybe I should contact the Hague!

PPS: If one had been in LOS many times without overstaying and is caught overstaying for one day or two (meaning s/he has a ticket to fly the next day or so), I would think that the reputation of Thailand as a Land of Smile would be losing its shine a wee bit! Of course, there are some custom officers who are a bit dysfunctional in every country! I would think that custom officers in LOS would be smarter and wiser than that because I doubt that the tourist who has been caught in this situation will probably make the country lose 10 or 100 times more! Would that be smart?

Edited November 3, 2009 by rethaired

[lopburi3]

Feel better now?

FYI: they are Immigration Officers - you get in trouble with Customs Officers when you bring in stuff; other than yourself.

[ericthai]

Feel better now?

FYI: they are Immigration Officers - you get in trouble with Customs Officers when you bring in stuff; other than yourself.

[pisico]

I overstayed the first of 90 days of my 1 year B visa and this is what happened:

Went to the Immigration Bureau new location in Bangkok and spoke with a series of officers who directed me to different sections until I was sent to department B diplomatic, education, Non-B visas.

I went with my Thai girlfriend who came all the way from Bang la Mung (where she lives) to assist me in this endeavor. Bless her heart!

A lady by the name of June (or something like that meaning month in Thai) Told me that the fine would cost me close to 20,000 THB at 500 per day. She said to go to the border, pay the THB2,000 fine and come back.

The following day I went by van to Poipet (THB 500 round trip from BKK) and upon arrival in Poipet, a very smooth talking group tried to sell me a THB1300 visa fee. I refused and was escorted to an office where a Dragon Lady named Mom said that it was the fee. I said that I had contacted Immigration here and Cambodia. She froze, turned white (without help from whitening lotion) and changed her demeanor. She offered to have a motor-boy take me to the actual border (about 200 meters) free of charge and told me to call her and she would send for me from the border when I was back in Thailand.

Exit from Thailand was smooth and without issues of paying any fine at all. In Cambodia other than the shock of seeing a host of ritzy casinos and squalor not far from them, the Cambodia visa was smooth too. I paid $20 for the visa (as stated on a sign) and and additional THB100 for "tea money".

Turned around and went back to Thailand. Smooth sailing again. I was given another 90 days and no mention of fines at all. My overstay was of about 18 days. I have a US passport. Although I am a senior, I did not use the lazy way of paying for an agent to do all this for me. It is real easy and smooth.

I suggest not to be intimidated by language. All those guys on both sides of the border know the necessary English to tell you what is the next step.

I hope this will help those who overstay and those doing the Visa Run. Pisico

[alyx]

Hey Pisico

Reading your post I am a bit confused

1) You were asked to pay 1300 Baht for what? the visa into Cambodia?

2) If that is the case what does that have to do with the "Dragon lady" turned "mouse" who obviously belongs to the Thai immigration, as in why should they interfer with a Cambodian matter?

If these people were not Thai officials and simply agents why were they impressed by your firm stand? They would simply tell you to go somewhere else to deal with it

3) The 100 baht you have paid is not Tea money as a receipt is given (at least in my case every time I have crossed the border)

4) How is it related to your overstay which was not considered finable?

Poipet used to be quite a cool spot for travellers on a visa run but this has dramatically changed in the past years and they are very much aware of any fines to be collected (the desk to pay fines is right behind the immigration booth)

Of course on the way back there would be no mention of fines as you have supposedly been officialy let out of the country

5) Can you also explain to me how your delay of ONE day ( as in "I overstayed the first of 90 days" at the beginning of your post) became EIGHTEEN days (as in "my overstay was of about 18 days")?

I do not mean to doubt what you are saying but I am a bit skeptical or maybe did not understand correctly (so don't get upset, just wondering)

Thanks

[alyx]

And also "June" told you to pay 2,000 baht at the border: that means 4 days or did you type 2,000 instead of 20,000 meaning 40 days in that case

Really I am lost, sorry

[lopburi3]

Read his previous post - he thought multi entry visa only required address reporting and tried to do that by mail.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/90-Day-Repor...63#entry3108763

[pisico]

Hey Pisico

Reading your post I am a bit confused

1) You were asked to pay 1300 Baht for what? the visa into Cambodia?

2) If that is the case what does that have to do with the "Dragon lady" turned "mouse" who obviously belongs to the Thai immigration, as in why should they interfer with a Cambodian matter?

If these people were not Thai officials and simply agents why were they impressed by your firm stand? They would simply tell you to go somewhere else to deal with it

3) The 100 baht you have paid is not Tea money as a receipt is given (at least in my case every time I have crossed the border)

4) How is it related to your overstay which was not considered finable?

Poipet used to be quite a cool spot for travellers on a visa run but this has dramatically changed in the past years and they are very much aware of any fines to be collected (the desk to pay fines is right behind the immigration booth)

Of course on the way back there would be no mention of fines as you have supposedly been officialy let out of the country

5) Can you also explain to me how your delay of ONE day ( as in "I overstayed the first of 90 days" at the beginning of your post) became EIGHTEEN days (as in "my overstay was of about 18 days")?

I do not mean to doubt what you are saying but I am a bit skeptical or maybe did not understand correctly (so don't get upset, just wondering)

Thanks

As the van arrived close to the border, a group of Thais offered help with the Cambodian visa. This was done in an empty restaurant which is the van's final stop. They asked THB1,300 to "expedite the visa". The Dragon Lady was next door in an air condition office. She was "an independent contractor" it seems. Her reaction was real as I described it. She was obviously trying to placate me as I was firm and in no uncertain terms and I made clear that I knew how much the Cambodian visa cost.

I did not write anything about a one day delay. I referred only to my first 90 days of my 1 year visa. Read my post again, please!

According to the Thai Immigration officer at the new location, each day after the stay expires carries a fine of THB500 per day plus THB2000 for late reporting, if the latter was still an issue. According to this officer, if I exited the country, I would only be required to pay the THB2000 (reporting late) and not the THB500 per day of overstay.

As far a the $20 for the Cambodian visa, it is true that they staple a receipt to the passport but, the THB100 payment is to make up for the Dollar devaluation (I paid with a $20) so the Cambodians in uniform said. An old timer in line also paid the THB100 and confirmed to me that on the Cambodian side they began doing it unofficially and the money really goes to the pockets of the officials at the border. So he said. It seemed to me little money to make sure I was not going to be set aside and made to wait for a couple of hours as it seemed to be the case with two feisty backpackers in front of me.

I have related the events as they happened.

As far as your skepticism It has not nettled me. Any other questions you may have perhaps it would be better to seek the answers from the sources I mentioned in my post. I posted my personal experience of this Visa Run for the benefit of newbies that may have to follow the same path. As I was one 90 days ago.

A typo I made when I wrote the overstay fine in my case was THB20,000. It was in fact THB8,000 plus the THB2,000 fine for late reporting. This obviously had to confuse you. I thank you for bringing it to my attention.

I was much enlightened by a post made in the Visa section of this website under Visa Run where in 2005 a chap overstayed his visa to the tune of one month and did just that: exited Thailand and did not have to pay the THB200 per day which was the fine at the time of his post.

Edited November 4, 2009 by pisico

[alyx]

Thanks for taking the time to reply: this time it is a clear explanation for me

[alyx]

Read his previous post - he thought multi entry visa only required address reporting and tried to do that by mail.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/90-Day-Repor...63#entry3108763

Thank you Lopburi

Of course it does put things in a different perspective and after reading both post I can understand what went on

[ericthai]

Hey Pisico

Reading your post I am a bit confused

1) You were asked to pay 1300 Baht for what? the visa into Cambodia?

2) If that is the case what does that have to do with the "Dragon lady" turned "mouse" who obviously belongs to the Thai immigration, as in why should they interfer with a Cambodian matter?

If these people were not Thai officials and simply agents why were they impressed by your firm stand? They would simply tell you to go somewhere else to deal with it

3) The 100 baht you have paid is not Tea money as a receipt is given (at least in my case every time I have crossed the border)

4) How is it related to your overstay which was not considered finable?

Poipet used to be quite a cool spot for travellers on a visa run but this has dramatically changed in the past years and they are very much aware of any fines to be collected (the desk to pay fines is right behind the immigration booth)

Of course on the way back there would be no mention of fines as you have supposedly been officialy let out of the country

5) Can you also explain to me how your delay of ONE day ( as in "I overstayed the first of 90 days" at the beginning of your post) became EIGHTEEN days (as in "my overstay was of about 18 days")?

I do not mean to doubt what you are saying but I am a bit skeptical or maybe did not understand correctly (so don't get upset, just wondering)

Thanks

The 100 baht at Cambodia is tea money.. They try to do this at every boarder. Actually at Osmach they want 300 baht I refuse each time sometimes it works sometimes they just sit there holding my passport to I give in then I only give them 100 baht and tell them to take their wife out to dinner on me!! they have a sign right in the windows saying offices should not ask for this money, but at the same time is says the rule is you need to stay in Cambodia for 24hrs. When I refuse and point to the sign about the payment they tell me I need to stay for 24hrs, So to let you get away with this they want money.

In poipet I can usually get away with it, I always tell them I never pay, however my passport is 9yrs olds and is as thick as a book so I think they know I have been around the block many times. There have been times in Poipet the line in Cambodia to leave has been really long and they guy tells me give him 100 baht and he goes inside and processes my passport right away, I know this is not right, but hey if it can be done and save some time it works for me.

Pisico, you must have got lucky in poipet sometimes it can take hours as the lines are so long getting in and out of Thailand due to all the Thais going to the casinos and back packers coming back from Siam reap, unless due to the economic time things are slow. When Im in bangkok I usually go to Bang Leam it's a longer drive (not much) but very quick as there it's much less busy.

Another thing if you are going to go to Poipet again have you GF check around, maybe call the casino in Cambodia as I have been told you can get either free or very cheap something like 200 baht that the casinos have vans or buses going back and forth between BKK. I don't know where they pick up or at what times. I gave a guy a ride back from Poipet about 3yrs ago and he told me this, this is how he got there. I met him in line and we started talking and he thought I was doing the same thing, but I told him I had a car and offered him a ride back as the buses dont leave to go back to BKK until they are full, I guess it takes longer too as they stop allot of places on the way to pick people up. Just thought I would let you know if you are on a tight budget. I do recommend Bang Leam as it is much quicker, but I have not been there in a long time as I have been staying in Surin and going to Osmach. Don't know if they have buses going there, but I would think so.

[pisico]

Hey Pisico

Reading your post I am a bit confused

1) You were asked to pay 1300 Baht for what? the visa into Cambodia?

2) If that is the case what does that have to do with the "Dragon lady" turned "mouse" who obviously belongs to the Thai immigration, as in why should they interfer with a Cambodian matter?

If these people were not Thai officials and simply agents why were they impressed by your firm stand? They would simply tell you to go somewhere else to deal with it

3) The 100 baht you have paid is not Tea money as a receipt is given (at least in my case every time I have crossed the border)

4) How is it related to your overstay which was not considered finable?

Poipet used to be quite a cool spot for travellers on a visa run but this has dramatically changed in the past years and they are very much aware of any fines to be collected (the desk to pay fines is right behind the immigration booth)

Of course on the way back there would be no mention of fines as you have supposedly been officialy let out of the country

5) Can you also explain to me how your delay of ONE day ( as in "I overstayed the first of 90 days" at the beginning of your post) became EIGHTEEN days (as in "my overstay was of about 18 days")?

I do not mean to doubt what you are saying but I am a bit skeptical or maybe did not understand correctly (so don't get upset, just wondering)

Thanks

The 100 baht at Cambodia is tea money.. They try to do this at every boarder. Actually at Osmach they want 300 baht I refuse each time sometimes it works sometimes they just sit there holding my passport to I give in then I only give them 100 baht and tell them to take their wife out to dinner on me!! they have a sign right in the windows saying offices should not ask for this money, but at the same time is says the rule is you need to stay in Cambodia for 24hrs. When I refuse and point to the sign about the payment they tell me I need to stay for 24hrs, So to let you get away with this they want money.

In poipet I can usually get away with it, I always tell them I never pay, however my passport is 9yrs olds and is as thick as a book so I think they know I have been around the block many times. There have been times in Poipet the line in Cambodia to leave has been really long and they guy tells me give him 100 baht and he goes inside and processes my passport right away, I know this is not right, but hey if it can be done and save some time it works for me.

Pisico, you must have got lucky in poipet sometimes it can take hours as the lines are so long getting in and out of Thailand due to all the Thais going to the casinos and back packers coming back from Siam reap, unless due to the economic time things are slow. When Im in bangkok I usually go to Bang Leam it's a longer drive (not much) but very quick as there it's much less busy.

Another thing if you are going to go to Poipet again have you GF check around, maybe call the casino in Cambodia as I have been told you can get either free or very cheap something like 200 baht that the casinos have vans or buses going back and forth between BKK. I don't know where they pick up or at what times. I gave a guy a ride back from Poipet about 3yrs ago and he told me this, this is how he got there. I met him in line and we started talking and he thought I was doing the same thing, but I told him I had a car and offered him a ride back as the buses dont leave to go back to BKK until they are full, I guess it takes longer too as they stop allot of places on the way to pick people up. Just thought I would let you know if you are on a tight budget. I do recommend Bang Leam as it is much quicker, but I have not been there in a long time as I have been staying in Surin and going to Osmach. Don't know if they have buses going there, but I would think so.

Hi ericthai!

Thanks for the advice! You are right on both counts: it is tea money and I got lucky.

The reason I think it was so fast for me was the weather. It was cold, raining and a strong wind sweeping umbrellas across both countries. The line on the Cambodian side to go into the country was not long but a bit slow as it was lunch time. Other than that, going out was a breeze: only 3 people in line.

My biggest bit of luck was not having to pay anything for overstaying my visa to the tune of 18 days. Read the tale of the guy who overstayed his visa for one whole month in the Visa Run section of tips and such.

I will have my Tilac check out the possibility of getting a free ride from BKK and maybe a free room in Poipet. I heard something to that effect while there.

One bit of caution for Poipet: if it's raining, unceremoniously shoo away the myriad of umbrella carrying children. They are accomplished pickpockets. They offer to shelter you of the rain for little money. Do not fall for it! It will lead to trouble. They may also claim that you fondled them and there is when a long journey in Cambodia will last for many months and cost a lot of money and tears to you and your family.

Thanks for reading this post. I hope it will save time and trouble to my fellow denizens in Farangland.

Pisico

[Badbanker]

My Senior Police contact at immigration is saying that they are tired of Farangs abusing the law and the kindness of the Thai Immigration Department.

There are new laws being planned at the moment that will black ban people that maliciously abuse the overstay laws.

Something about black banning (refusing entry) multiple offenders for a period of time!

Think about it!

BB

[pisico]

The article I mentioned in my post can be found in the visa run section under the heading:

Making the visa run - doing it the Thai way

In it the writer who is an established teacher in Thailand, relates his overstay and other interesting tips and details of his experience. A good read.

Pisico

[changT]

Question.

If i have a big overstay and i have to pay this 20.000 fine, can i go to any country i want through bangkok airport? i mean like just have a ticket to next fly to phnom penh and come back after two days? Because i have busines visa and i still have 5 months left on it. Im just ovverstayed 40 days on making the stamp i need to make every 90 days.

Thanks

[lopburi3]

Normally there is no issue doing this.

[thaiphoon]

You just need to leave the country ASAP to clear your overstay, and you will have less immigration problems leaving by air. Anywhere will do. Your passport will be marked with overstay stamp, but that will not prevent you from obtaining another visa or re-entering the country. Can re-enter same day if you wanted to.

[changT]

Theres another issue im worried about. I got arrested for shoplifting, but i cleared everything paid the fine and been released. And on my papers (decison from judge and release) theres nowhere mentioned that im blacklisted or something. I assume that if i was blacklisted they (police or judge) would inform me about that? So there shouldnt be any problems comming back?

[NanLaew]

Is it something in the water here that makes foreigners think that immigration regulations do not apply to them? Is it due to this 'Land of Smiles' crap? Is it because the girls are so pretty here or the superb cuisine?

To the OP; stay legal and file for the extension OK?

[ericthai]

Is it something in the water here that makes foreigners think that immigration regulations do not apply to them? Is it due to this 'Land of Smiles' crap? Is it because the girls are so pretty here or the superb cuisine?

To the OP; stay legal and file for the extension OK?

Dude give the guy a break. This is 1st visa and you know sometimes things are confusing and things happen, so he over stayed and he is asking how to resolve this. help the guy, don't criticize

[thaiphoon]

changT has already been given advice in this thread. No need to discuss further.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Wont-Stamp-V...70#entry3099270

[KunMatt]

Is it something in the water here that makes foreigners think that immigration regulations do not apply to them? Is it due to this 'Land of Smiles' crap? Is it because the girls are so pretty here or the superb cuisine?

To the OP; stay legal and file for the extension OK?

If you had read my replies I did get an extension and stayed legal.

Please, like the law is strictly observed across the board in Thailand: Protestution is openly rife, Pharmacies sell illegal drugs such as Xanax, Valium and Viagra, Thai scammers openly rip off tourists in direct view of police posts 24/7, and so many more "crimes" are tolerated in Thailand by the officials who can pick or choose what they determine to be worthwhle laws.

Seeing as the law can be a very flexible thing in Thailand on certain subjects, the reason for this thread was exactly to find out if the law is strictly applied on this matter as I have never needed a couple of days extension on a Visa, usually I just do a border run. If outstaying my visa for a very short period of time was only a technicality and paying the overstay fine is normal practice for this then I would have done that. Finding out about something called an "Overstay fine" made me think that this was just normal procedure if you need to overstay a couple of days. It was not.

So it turns out that Thai Immigration do take the subject of overstay seriously and therefore I made sure I got myself an extension well before my Visa expired.

Thanks for the advice all posters, appreciate the help as always.

And kudos to all the negative Nancys who found another thread to vent their condescending ways, while being completely non-productive in the process.

Edited November 5, 2009 by UKMatt

[rethaired]

My Senior Police contact at immigration is saying that they are tired of Farangs abusing the law and the kindness of the Thai Immigration Department.

There are new laws being planned at the moment that will black ban people that maliciously abuse the overstay laws.

Something about black banning (refusing entry) multiple offenders for a period of time!

Think about it!

BB

If the people deliberately overstay, ok, I can understand their frustration, but then the fine is good money, no?

Now, for the regular folks, let's be fair here! Since it is a fact that a 60 days visa is actually 59 and since 2 months is actually/usually 61 days long, perhaps it is time that Thailand (and other countries, I am sure) have laws that actually COMPLY with reality and logic! In other words, who is at fault here? Let's remember that laws are just laws made by human beings. Errare humanum est! To err is human and so are some laws! I wonder why these inaccuracies in the law exist and continue to exist. Is it because it is lucrative? Or is it because no one is stepping up to make changes? So, for those who believe that laws should be respected, I agree with you only if YOU agree that they should be followed if they make sense! It is clear that this law does not make sense!

Now, in all fairness, I read that custom officers waive the 1 day overstay (which is not really an overstay if it is one day, as ascertained earlier) if one leaves the country by air! It would be nice though if the law reflected a 61 days period not a 59 days period for a 60 days visa, just because this gives room for unscrupulous and/or righteous people the right to abuse people.

Edited November 12, 2009 by rethaired