Redundant education content may be cut as part of reform: Jurin

By WANNAPA PHETDEE

THE NATION ON SUNDAY

Published on October 18, 2009

Some 30 per cent of content taught at the basic-education level may be cut or adjusted on grounds of redundancy, Education Minister Jurin Laksanawisit said at a meeting yesterday.

Meanwhile, academics at the meeting urged the education and other ministries to stop organising formal training for teachers, because it was found they often had to miss classes in order to attend the sessions.

After the meeting, held at the Dusit Thani Hotel and Resort in Pattaya with education officials and academics to decide on priorities for the country's second education reform programme, Jurin said he would let educational experts work together with curriculum creators |to consider whether the ministry should cut or adjust redundant content.

He expects it will take about a month to consider the issue, after which he will decide which path to take.

Utumporn Jamornmann, director of the National Institute of Educational Testing Service, said she wanted training held by the ministries for teachers to be revoked, but they should instead let teachers organise training themselves.

"Many teachers have to leave their pupils and classes to take part in the training, especially in August when much of the training budget remains," she said.

Channarong Pornrungroj, secretary to the Council of University Presidents of Thailand, backed Utumporn's idea.

He said it was unnecessary to have so much formal training for teachers. They should instead have the freedom and time to adjust their own training, so that it does not affect their classes.

Jurin concluded from yesterday's discussion that three main areas of the education system should be focused upon in the upcoming reform.

"With the need to enable Thai students to think more analytically than only being able to remember studied content, initially we'll improve three main areas: curriculum, teachers and instructional media. We'll put the conclusions of the meeting into practice and initiate policy to support them," he said.

"In order to develop students' analytical thinking, the curriculum needs adjustment. Apart from dealing with redundant content, more education-related activities are needed for the new curriculum because this will encourage students to think more analytically. Therefore, students' timetables will also be adjusted to suit learning through such activities," the minister said.

He said he planned to improve the quality of teaching by organising training for 450,000 teachers countrywide within one year, together with creating a better understanding with school boards.

Jurin added that instructional media successfully produced and used in other countries would be introduced into Thailand for use by teachers. In addition, more local instructional media will be produced to facilitate their teaching.

-- The Nation 2009/10/18

Sounds like a good idea.

Let's call it fix #1 of approximately 785 fixes that need attending to re; Thai education.

Too bad it will take 2 months to consider doing that one fix, but knowing Thai bureaucracy, it's par for the course.

Now if they could just eliminate the 20 or so redundant letters (out of 57) in the Thai alphabet, that would also be helpful (ok, just kidding).

At least there seems to be an actual, look and then action happening with the problems.

The big three above are the crux, even as other things certainly need adressing.

In the past it was

look, pronounce, ignore, spend the money on redundant crap for friends profit.

I feel the success or failure of introducing a new approach will be totaly dependant on what they consider to be REDUNDENT PRACTISES . Once they get away from constantly living in the far distant past with all its archaic non productive results and teach students progressive forward thinking with group discussions in an analitical vein , Change the attitude of teachers being always correct and un-questionable , then just maybe Thailand will start to move forward in how it views the rest of the world . Students have to learn there is a whole different world out there that they need to adjust to for future survival in a global village and at the very least they need to be able to converse in a comprehensive manner in the language of the buisiness world . Oh , I forgot one very important factor in the whole new scheme of things , first they have to make HUGE adjustments in the way faculty (in itself) approaches the archaic methods they use to teach .

Sounds like a good idea.

Let's call it fix #1 of approximately 785 fixes that need attending to re; Thai education.

Too bad it will take 2 months to consider doing that one fix, but knowing Thai bureaucracy, it's par for the course.

Now if they could just eliminate the 20 or so redundant letters (out of 57) in the Thai alphabet, that would also be helpful (ok, just kidding).

I thought majority of people need to hear something three times to remember

A rough, cynical translation:

Teachers will not be taken out of classes as much this year to attend 'training' for which companies previously had to be hired, facilitating the motion of vast quantities of monies which certainly had nothing to do with the acquisition of money or valuables by any school or MOE officials. Instead, students will be taken out of classes to attend 'educational activities' which will then require the hiring of companies, facilitating the motion of vast quantities of monies which certainly will have nothing to do with the acquisition of money or valuables by any school or MOE officials.

Cynical only because it's accurate and true.

Announcement by a bureaucracy. Education reform again, but did they reform it in the last ten years? Good luck.

I was in Burma recently. While walking alongside a school, I heard the call and response type education that was going on at the moment. The students were young, perhaps 8. The teacher would say a brief phrase, the kids would immediately repeat it. The tempo was fast and the kids' responses were enthusiastic, indeed shouting. It went on for many minutes non-stop. I'm a musician, so it particularly intrigued me as being not so far removed from the call and response singing in a black gospel church.

Now switch to northern Thailand. I sit at my favorite restaurant (Muslim) across from an after-hours remedial classroom. The classroom has no wall on the street side. The students appear about 11 thru 15. The teacher, a rotund young Thai man, is lecturing non-stop. He's speaking intensely, loudly (one could say meanly) with no breaks. There is no response from the students, indeed, no questions addressed to them, no interaction whatsoever. (incidentally, the teacher later got in trouble for taking v. young student girls individually upstairs to his room, after classes. He's no longer teaching at that spot.)

I just wanted to share those two snapshots of teaching methods I've observed here in S.E. Asia. I'd rather see a variation of teaching styles, where students are encouraged to interact with teachers and even with fellow students - particularly with problem solving exercises. Granted, both examples above, were with young students - yet still, teaching in SE Asia appears to be 99% a one way street, with teachers talking (down) to students, trying to fill their brains to overflowing with all the rote things they're supposed to know, without question, and with little discussion. The general attitude appears to be "this is the only way it is. Learn this, pass the test."

One result of that, in later years, is Asian population(s) giving up their thinking abilities to others they deem 'more intelligent / higher up the social ladder' who tell the little people what to think. We see it every day within Red Shirt protests and such.

Edited October 19, 200916 yr by brahmburgers

I know, I know, the hub of redundancy.

I was in Burma recently. While walking alongside a school, I heard the call and response type education that was going on at the moment. The students were young, perhaps 8. The teacher would say a brief phrase, the kids would immediately repeat it. The tempo was fast and the kids' responses were enthusiastic, indeed shouting. It went on for many minutes non-stop. I'm a musician, so it particularly intrigued me as being not so far removed from the call and response singing in a black gospel church.

Now switch to northern Thailand. I sit at my favorite restaurant (Muslim) across from an after-hours remedial classroom. The classroom has no wall on the street side. The students appear about 11 thru 15. The teacher, a rotund young Thai man, is lecturing non-stop. He's speaking intensely, loudly (one could say meanly) with no breaks. There is no response from the students, indeed, no questions addressed to them, no interaction whatsoever. (incidentally, the teacher later got in trouble for taking v. young student girls individually upstairs to his room, after classes. He's no longer teaching at that spot.)

I just wanted to share those two snapshots of teaching methods I've observed here in S.E. Asia. I'd rather see a variation of teaching styles, where students are encouraged to interact with teachers and even with fellow students - particularly with problem solving exercises. Granted, both examples above, were with young students - yet still, teaching in SE Asia appears to be 99% a one way street, with teachers talking (down) to students, trying to fill their brains to overflowing with all the rote things they're supposed to know, without question, and with little discussion. The general attitude appears to be "this is the only way it is. Learn this, pass the test."

One result of that, in later years, is Asian population(s) giving up their thinking abilities to others they deem 'more intelligent / higher up the social ladder' who tell the little people what to think. We see it every day within Red Shirt protests and such.

Typical Thai teaching, good morning, sit down, open your books, shut up.

Announcement by a bureaucracy. Education reform again, but did they reform it in the last ten years? Good luck.

The Philippines and some non English European countries use English Immersion throughout their school systems. These Nations are gaining an advantage over back wards countries who fail to recognize an International Language has emerged; I call it Interlang.

Don't even be dense enough to say my Post is off Topic. If they want to continue to dream, in Technicolor, for an improvement in the Education system, the most effective, least costly plan would be to increase the literacy in the World Language!

THAT would be worth talking about!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language >>> Quote

<<< English as a global language

See also: English in computing, International English, and World languageBecause English is so widely spoken, it has often been referred to as a "world language", the lingua franca of the modern era.^[15] While English is not an official language in most countries, it is currently the language most often taught as a second language around the world. Some linguists (such as David Graddol) believe that it is no longer the exclusive cultural property of "native English speakers", but is rather a language that is absorbing aspects of cultures worldwide as it continues to grow.^[15] It is, by international treaty, the official language for aerial and maritime communications.^[53] English is an official language of the United Nations and many other international organisations, including the International Olympic Committee.

English is the language most often studied as a foreign language in the European Union (by 89% of schoolchildren), followed by French (32%), German (18%), Spanish (8%), and Russian; while the perception of the usefulness of foreign languages amongst Europeans is 68% English, 25% French, 22% German, and 16% Spanish.^[54] Among non-English speaking EU countries, a large percentage of the population claimed to have been able to converse in English in the Netherlands (87%), Sweden (85%), Denmark (83%), Luxembourg (66%), Finland (60%), Slovenia (56%), Austria (53%), Belgium (52%), and Germany (51%).^[55] Norway and Iceland also have a large majority of competent English-speakers

Edited October 19, 200916 yr by eggomaniac

Sounds like a good idea.

Let's call it fix #1 of approximately 785 fixes that need attending to re; Thai education.

Too bad it will take 2 months to consider doing that one fix, but knowing Thai bureaucracy, it's par for the course.

Now if they could just eliminate the 20 or so redundant letters (out of 57) in the Thai alphabet, that would also be helpful (ok, just kidding).

2 month to consider

3 month people add their comments (soldiers, former premiers, monks, wanna be hi-so, etc etc)

after 3 month the discussion will die down

done...nothing

A rough, cynical translation:

Teachers will not be taken out of classes as much this year to attend 'training' for which companies prevoiusly had to be hired, facilitating the motion of vast quantities of monies which certainly had nothing to do with the acquisition of money or valuables by any school or MOE officials. Instead, students will be taken out of classes to attend 'educational activities' which will then require the hiring of companies, facilitating the motion of vast quantities of monies which certainly will have nothing to do with the acquisition of money or valuables by any school or MOE officials.

Department of Redundancy Department.

Same same but but different different.

Edited October 19, 200916 yr by Publicus

Now if they could just eliminate the 20 or so redundant letters (out of 57) in the Thai alphabet, that would also be helpful (ok, just kidding).

I know you're just joking around, but if you ever studied Sanskrit you'd understand why the redundant letters are there. Since spoken Thai has less consonant sounds that Sanskrit, many of the letters that sounded different in the original language now sound the same, but the letters are still there to preserve the original spellings.

Now if they could just eliminate the 20 or so redundant letters (out of 57) in the Thai alphabet, that would also be helpful (ok, just kidding).

I know you're just joking around, but if you ever studied Sanskrit you'd understand why the redundant letters are there. Since spoken Thai has less consonant sounds that Sanskrit, many of the letters that sounded different in the original language now sound the same, but the letters are still there to preserve the original spellings.

Interesting. In what ways do you think Thai language/alphabet are tied in that of Sanskrit? I wrote a book about 'tap sap' (Thai words adapted from other languages, mostly English), and am interested in what Sanskrit words have been co-opted in to Thai. I venture there are many. Some adaptions that may fit, some guesses off the top of my head (all happen to pertain to religion):

ahimsa

dharma

karma

sangha

buddha

yogi

yogini

bodhi

sadhu

brahma

brahmacharia

chitwa

chitta or chitra

Ayodya

Edited October 19, 200916 yr by brahmburgers

Why do people bother making worthwhile assessments of this subject. The Thai education system is not intended to educate..full stop. A simple way to improve the system is to make it a requirement that every student should me made to ask every teacher one question everyday. That question should be 'WHY (make up the rest yourself) and it must be a requirement that the teacher gives the student an answer.

Just part of the buffer between the poor and the 'state within the state', poor teachers are just a uniform wafting bits of worthless paper (qualifications). We must remember they were educated in the same system. Enough said (going back to thedishes)

Now if they could just eliminate the 20 or so redundant letters (out of 57) in the Thai alphabet, that would also be helpful (ok, just kidding).

I know you're just joking around, but if you ever studied Sanskrit you'd understand why the redundant letters are there. Since spoken Thai has less consonant sounds that Sanskrit, many of the letters that sounded different in the original language now sound the same, but the letters are still there to preserve the original spellings.

Interesting. In what ways do you think Thai language/alphabet are tied in that of Sanskrit? I wrote a book about 'tap sap' (Thai words adapted from other languages, mostly English), and am interested in what Sanskrit words have been co-opted in to Thai. I venture there are many. Some adaptions that may fit, some guesses off the top of my head (all happen to pertain to religion):

ahimsa

dharma

karma

sangha

buddha

yogi

yogini

bodhi

sadhu

brahma

brahmacharia

chitwa

chitta or chitra

Ayodya

I'd venture to say a quarter to half of the vocabulary comes from Sanskrit or Pali words. Just about any word with a high-class consonant or a garan to mark silent letters that isn't obviously of European origin will be from India.

As for the script, just look at this chart: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/9594/brahmi.html Almost all the alphabets in South and Southeast Asia are related. In Thailand, however, there was a pronunciation shift. "k" became "g", and "g" became "kh". "t" became "d", and "dh" became "th". Also "b" became "ph". "c" became "j", and "j" became "ch" Another major pronunciation change was an unwritten short "a" became a short "o". And finally a lot of ending vowels get dropped off.

So you get Sanskrit to Thai as follows:

tara (star) =dara

Buddha (enlightened one) = Phuttha

naga (serpent) = naakh

mantra (chant, spell) = mon

citta (mind) = jit

samsara (cycle of suffering) = songsaan (used in the phrase na songsaan "what a pity")

ratha (cart) = rot

acarya (teacher) = ajaan

guru (teacher) = khru

basha (language) = phasa

hetu (cause) = het

vidhyalaya (school) = withayalai

hima (snow) = hima

svasti (fortune, auspiciousness) = sawat

Also just about every name comes from Sanskrit. That's why none of the names sound the way they're spelled in English ex.: "Shinawatra" vs. "Chinawat", or "Abhisit Vejjajiva" vs. "Aphisit Wetchachiwa"

**Sorry for going so far of fthe main topic

Let's stay roughly on-topic. There is a Thai language forum for those that are interested.

The Philippines and some non English European countries use English Immersion throughout their school systems. These Nations are gaining an advantage over back wards countries who fail to recognize an International Language has emerged; I call it Interlang.

Don't even be dense enough to say my Post is off Topic. If they want to continue to dream, in Technicolor, for an improvement in the Education system, the most effective, least costly plan would be to increase the literacy in the World Language!

THAT would be worth talking about!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language >>> Quote

<<< English as a global language

See also: English in computing, International English, and World languageBecause English is so widely spoken, it has often been referred to as a "world language", the lingua franca of the modern era.^[15] While English is not an official language in most countries, it is currently the language most often taught as a second language around the world. Some linguists (such as David Graddol) believe that it is no longer the exclusive cultural property of "native English speakers", but is rather a language that is absorbing aspects of cultures worldwide as it continues to grow.^[15] It is, by international treaty, the official language for aerial and maritime communications.^[53] English is an official language of the United Nations and many other international organisations, including the International Olympic Committee.

English is the language most often studied as a foreign language in the European Union (by 89% of schoolchildren), followed by French (32%), German (18%), Spanish (8%), and Russian; while the perception of the usefulness of foreign languages amongst Europeans is 68% English, 25% French, 22% German, and 16% Spanish.^[54] Among non-English speaking EU countries, a large percentage of the population claimed to have been able to converse in English in the Netherlands (87%), Sweden (85%), Denmark (83%), Luxembourg (66%), Finland (60%), Slovenia (56%), Austria (53%), Belgium (52%), and Germany (51%).^[55] Norway and Iceland also have a large majority of competent English-speakers

Stealing the general gist of my post but putting it into a more modern form of lingo , plus of course a few statistics to prove the point , well done .