National Holidays

[garycm]

both my cleaning lady and assistant get days of on all the national holidays. My Thai wife doesn't agree, she gets only the big and important days from her boss. She says only government jobs get all the days of. I agree there are a lot of national holidays and she says they should only get the most important ones of but this is what I promised them when the started working for us. Of course I can't change that but I would like to know, was I wrong?

[gotlost]

both my cleaning lady and assistant get days of on all the national holidays. My Thai wife doesn't agree, she gets only the big and important days from her boss. She says only government jobs get all the days of. I agree there are a lot of national holidays and she says they should only get the most important ones of but this is what I promised them when the started working for us. Of course I can't change that but I would like to know, was I wrong?

YUP! But like you said you can not go back on your word. Live and learn.

[garycm]

both my cleaning lady and assistant get days of on all the national holidays. My Thai wife doesn't agree, she gets only the big and important days from her boss. She says only government jobs get all the days of. I agree there are a lot of national holidays and she says they should only get the most important ones of but this is what I promised them when the started working for us. Of course I can't change that but I would like to know, was I wrong?

YUP! But like you said you can not go back on your word. Live and learn.

so which holiday days should be days of?

[slapout]

Wrong may be too lient a term. Give them 2 day off a month (generous farang) after payday.

[gotlost]

both my cleaning lady and assistant get days of on all the national holidays. My Thai wife doesn't agree, she gets only the big and important days from her boss. She says only government jobs get all the days of. I agree there are a lot of national holidays and she says they should only get the most important ones of but this is what I promised them when the started working for us. Of course I can't change that but I would like to know, was I wrong?

YUP! But like you said you can not go back on your word. Live and learn.

so which holiday days should be days of?

The only day off that my wifes family takes is the day of Songkran. Usually April 15.

[SM7WGP]

The question is instead to ask your wife is your house so dirty so you need the cleaning ladies all the time

[garycm]

The question is instead to ask your wife is your house so dirty so you need the cleaning ladies all the time

why should i ask my wife? It is 1 cleaning lady not 2 and she works 5 days a week from 8 till 5. And yes i need her 5 days a week. It is not a condo but a big house with 4 bedrooms and 4 bathrooms.

[SM7WGP]

I have a big house to and also 4bedrooms and also 8 dogs but my wife cleans that alone , she dont need a cleaning lady for that.

[garycm]

I have a big house to and also 4bedrooms and also 8 dogs but my wife cleans that alone , she dont need a cleaning lady for that.

don't want to be rude but why do people always give you information that you don't need. Great your wife cleans the house but I told that my wife works. Long hours and 6 days a week. I just like to know how many and which national holidays they should get.

[Spoonman]

8 till 5 aint exactly long hours mate, pretty standard actually, and how many days per week does she work 5 or 6 ??

Anywho, back on topic, dont know how many actual public holidays there is per year but looking at an email from HR, we get 13 per year as allowed under the Thai labor laws.

The maximum number of work hours is eight per day or 48 per week, except for work deemed by law to be hazardous, in which case employment is limited to seven hours per day and 42 hours per week. Overtime compensation must be paid at a rate of between 1.5 to three times the normal hourly rate to qualifying employees.

Employees are entitled to 13 national holidays per year, plus a minimum of six days of vacation after one year of consecutive work. Thirty annual paid sick days is standard, and an employer may require a doctor’s certificate for sick leave of three days or more. Female employees are entitled to 90 days of maternity leave, including 45 days of paid leave. The minimum daily wage rate varies, depending upon location, from 137 baht (US$ 3.43) in some provincial areas to 175 baht (US$ 4.38) in Bangkok. Salaries for full-time office and management staff range from approximately 15,000 baht per month (US$ 375) for general office staff to 150,000 baht per month (US$ 3,750) for an IT manager.

Edited October 23, 2009 by Spoonman

[Nienke]

Garycm, I wouldn't even go in defence if I were you. It's so much NOT other's business whether you or your wife should or should not spend time cleaning your house.

BTW, house cleaning is even a pretty shitty job, so the first thing to give out of hand if you can.

Today 2 of my staff are off, one got her day of yesterday and the other one on Monday. During Songkran and New Year they are having days off and am I running on half staff (good for me physical exercise. Sweat on the forehead. )

And during both Songkran and New Year I give extra salary, standard is 1 to 2 extra monthly salaries a year.

I follow a bit the bank and governmental holidays; a total of about 18 days of per year per person. With that I'm a little above the governmental requirement for yearly holidays, which is (if I remember well, but can't find the website where I found these details) around 12 or 13 working days a year. And with all the 'sick' days they come to 3 to 4 weeks off a year.

How much holidays and bonuses you give your staff is up to you and how much you value and want to keep your staff.

Edit: With thanks to Spoonman, I found it: http://www.thailandroad.com/legal/labor.ht...oursandHolidays

Edited October 23, 2009 by Nienke

[garycm]

8 till 5 aint exactly long hours mate, pretty standard actually, and how many days per week does she work 5 or 6 ??

sorry for the misunderstanding. staff works from 8 till 5 not the wife she comes home around 9.

Anywho, back on topic, dont know how many actual public holidays there is per year but looking at an email from HR, we get 13 per year as allowed under the Thai labor laws.

The maximum number of work hours is eight per day or 48 per week, except for work deemed by law to be hazardous, in which case employment is limited to seven hours per day and 42 hours per week. Overtime compensation must be paid at a rate of between 1.5 to three times the normal hourly rate to qualifying employees.

Employees are entitled to 13 national holidays per year, plus a minimum of six days of vacation after one year of consecutive work. Thirty annual paid sick days is standard, and an employer may require a doctor’s certificate for sick leave of three days or more. Female employees are entitled to 90 days of maternity leave, including 45 days of paid leave. The minimum daily wage rate varies, depending upon location, from 137 baht (US$ 3.43) in some provincial areas to 175 baht (US$ 4.38) in Bangkok. Salaries for full-time office and management staff range from approximately 15,000 baht per month (US$ 375) for general office staff to 150,000 baht per month (US$ 3,750) for an IT manager.

sorry for the misunderstanding. Staff works from 8 till 5 not the wife she comes home around 9. I still don't understand why people need to tell what long hours are or if their wife cleans. Should I repeat the question??? So far the best answer was 15 till 17 holidays a year. Thanks guys

[CLASBYCLAN]

Dear OP

You are getting the kind of response that I usually get when I need assistance here in Chiang Mai. I suspect that that is becuase most of the regular posters here are Men who have Thai lady's that handle all of these things for them, so they don't actually know!

I'm a Mom with two kids & cleaning a house IS a full time job! So I have two maids, they both have their own sleeping quarters, and have one day off a week. They have occasionally asked for a Birthday off, or time off to visit a sick friend, and I am happy for them to do so. They do not have public holidays off and it would annoy me if they did, the kids are off on public holidays and that's when I need the most help! (Encase anyone comments on that, it's actually very normal for all of the farang family's I know here).

I can't believe people would be so old fashioned to think your wife should clean as well as work!! I hope I never have to wash up again! Don't these guys realise that a cleaner equals less stress, quality time with kids, more beautification time for wife, more time for sex with Husband!

[Maejo Man]

both my cleaning lady and assistant get days of on all the national holidays. My Thai wife doesn't agree, ................................................................................

......... Of course I can't change that but I would like to know, was I wrong?

The OP is being an utter pedant telling posters that he is not interested in what hours other people's wives work, and rightly so. He wants to know if he was wrong.

In my opinion for what it's worth, yes you were wrong. Now are you happy?

[Blinky Bill]

A man was prescribed Viagra by his doctor who told him to take it one hour before sex. The man collected his prescription and went home to wait for his wife to get in from work.

An hour before she was due home, he took the Viagra pill. But just as he was expecting her, she phoned to say that she wouldn't be in for another two and a half hours.

In a panic, he phoned the doctor. "What should I do?" he asked. "I've taken the pill but the effects will have worn off by the time my wife gets home." "I see," said the doctor. "It is a pity to waste it. Do you have a maid?" "Yes." "Well, could you not occupy yourself with her instead?" "But I don't need Viagra with the maid."

[toptuan]

What days to give off? Here's what I would have done:

Sign up for Google accounts, and establish a Google calendar. Choose the "Thai National Holidays" overlay. Skip the Buddhist holidays (Awk Phansa, Masa Bucha, etc.) but give your staff national holidays off (Constitution Day, Chulalongkorn Day, Songkran, etc.).

If they're exceptionally religious and MUST go to the temple on a Buddhist holiday (can't wait for weekend or evenings) for making merit, then give them a half-day.

Like you said, you don't want to go back on your word (although institutions and business here do it all the time). So, file this away for when you fire your current staff and hire new.

Edited October 24, 2009 by toptuan

[garycm]

both my cleaning lady and assistant get days of on all the national holidays. My Thai wife doesn't agree, ................................................................................

......... Of course I can't change that but I would like to know, was I wrong?

The OP is being an utter pedant telling posters that he is not interested in what hours other people's wives work, and rightly so. He wants to know if he was wrong.

In my opinion for what it's worth, yes you were wrong. Now are you happy?

yes happy. Pendant? No.

[Maejo Man]

The OP is being an utter pedant telling posters that he is not interested in what hours other people's wives work, and rightly so. He wants to know if he was wrong.

In my opinion for what it's worth, yes you were wrong. Now are you happy?

yes happy. Pendant? No.

The word I used was pedant, and not pendant, which is one of those dangling things, but there again..... but I am pleased you are happy at last

[earlofwindermere]

Based on my experience and knowledge, the law says that you must give at least 13 of the stat holidays per year. There are two system:

1. Government Holidays

2. Bank Holidays

I give my staff the Bank holidays. This can be found on the Bank of Thailand website at least 1 year in advance. It's clear, simple and seems to be what most companies and organizations follow (at least those who I am in contact with). I also give my cleaning lady the same days as my office staff.

This means that I usually give 16 stat holidays per year instead of the minimum 13.

[cmjantje]

8 till 5 aint exactly long hours mate, pretty standard actually, and how many days per week does she work 5 or 6 ??

sorry for the misunderstanding. staff works from 8 till 5 not the wife she comes home around 9.

Anywho, back on topic, dont know how many actual public holidays there is per year but looking at an email from HR, we get 13 per year as allowed under the Thai labor laws.

The maximum number of work hours is eight per day or 48 per week, except for work deemed by law to be hazardous, in which case employment is limited to seven hours per day and 42 hours per week. Overtime compensation must be paid at a rate of between 1.5 to three times the normal hourly rate to qualifying employees.

Employees are entitled to 13 national holidays per year, plus a minimum of six days of vacation after one year of consecutive work. Thirty annual paid sick days is standard, and an employer may require a doctor’s certificate for sick leave of three days or more. Female employees are entitled to 90 days of maternity leave, including 45 days of paid leave. The minimum daily wage rate varies, depending upon location, from 137 baht (US$ 3.43) in some provincial areas to 175 baht (US$ 4.38) in Bangkok. Salaries for full-time office and management staff range from approximately 15,000 baht per month (US$ 375) for general office staff to 150,000 baht per month (US$ 3,750) for an IT manager.

sorry for the misunderstanding. Staff works from 8 till 5 not the wife she comes home around 9. I still don't understand why people need to tell what long hours are or if their wife cleans. Should I repeat the question??? So far the best answer was 15 till 17 holidays a year. Thanks guys

Gary,

Welcome to CM Forum.

First of all I think: what somebody else can do for me i don't want to do myself. So hiring people to do your jobs is perfectly correct. There are some buggers on this forum who cannot afford this help and I am sure they only are jeaulous.

About the holidays I can say as follows.

These holidays are only for people who work at the government and big companies like banks.

Just a few questions: Are your shops closed on these days? Are the tuktuk's not riding? Is the carpenter not working? Of course I can go on with the list.

My advise is to tell your staff to agree with Your terms or they can leave. In this periode of resession there are many people who want their jobs. It is called playing with the market.

Oh By the way, I have about 4 to 5 people working for me on daily or hourly basis. The Never Ever asked to be free on these holidays and they are Very happy!!

Songkran and Loi Kratong excepted of course.

Greetings

JMM

[earlofwindermere]

I would disagree with JMM about the holidays. From what I've seen, it is standard practice to give at least 13 national holidays per year to staff. I've seen this in small businesses, golf courses, foundations as well as governments and banks. I have asked my current staff about this and all of them were given at least 13 national holidays or they given a day off in lieu (or paid double time).

In addition to the 13 national days, there is also a requirement for personal days off. Legally, everyone is entitled to 5 personal days per year after working at the same place for 1 year. So, this brings the total to 17 days per year minimum.

I'd agree with what others may say...this does seem like a lot. However; this is the law in Thailand. You can follow it or ignore it. However; don't expect all Thai staff to stay with you long if you do not follow the minimum legal requirements for holiday time.

[coolxten]

both my cleaning lady and assistant get days of on all the national holidays. My Thai wife doesn't agree, she gets only the big and important days from her boss. She says only government jobs get all the days of. I agree there are a lot of national holidays and she says they should only get the most important ones of but this is what I promised them when the started working for us. Of course I can't change that but I would like to know, was I wrong?

Why don't you have a conversation with your cleaning lady and assistant and work out another agreement.

How about offering float days?....eg, you can offer her 13 holidays like agreed, or 10 days she can use any time during the year, but can't carry over to the next year. I know I rather pick my days off or have them all at once than 1 holiday off every month.

You could also have a conversation with her about your expectations. If she goes on a holiday you still expect her to carry her responibilities. eg. If the holiday falls on laundry day, she needs to do the laundry the day before. By doing this the holiday technically doesn't impact your household.

Or you can take a hard line approach. Which is just tell her that you won't honour the agreement, but give her a notice period. eg. "This year I'll allow you to take holidays off, but next year I won't and you need to make a discision of whether you would like to work for me."

Also think about the value of the time off to your staff, maybe this perk motivates your staff to work harder for you, and builds loyality. Giving them time off might mean they won't cut corners, or even stealing from you because they think they are not being compensated fairly.

Edited October 24, 2009 by coolxten

[jackr]

If you're worried about going back on your word, just sack em and start again. Simple

[gotlost]

If you're worried about going back on your word, just sack em and start again. Simple

Attitudes like that is why there are unions and human rights issues I shure would not have liked to have worked for you. Lighten up the are human.

[jackr]

I wouldn't like to work for me either.

[envirogirl]

If you're worried about going back on your word, just sack em and start again. Simple

Attitudes like that is why there are unions and human rights issues I shure would not have liked to have worked for you. Lighten up the are human.

I have to write that I am a bit shocked by the responses thus far (yes, I am somewhat new to this forum) and totally agree with GL about these attitudes being the reason unions were formed and human rights advocated.

Wow - these people are STAFF not slaves. For goodness sake give them some freakin days off! They have lives too. If it were me, I would give them 2 days off a week PLUS at least 13 public holiday as is the law. I get these 13 days off, 6 paid vacation (what the difference given the amount of pay anyway). How wonderful - 13 random days off, some in the middle of the week. I think Thai's as a whole are underpaid and treated badly by bosses no mater where they are from, which could be contribution to so much of the inefficiency we see. I have seen the same faces in all the places I frequent - any time I go. This has to be all these people do. I think I would kill myself if I had to be at tesco for that much of my life mindlessly saying sawatdee ka over and over again.

There is no need to take advantage of people's desperate positions in life. If you, as an educated professional from a developed country, get days off why can't your house staff as well? As for you business owners - just because you work 24/7 doesn't mean your staff have to! Unless they own some share of your company - why should they? Have them work hard when the moment requires, but not every waking moment. Its your venture, your livelihood, your risk.

I'd also like to let all you distinguished gentlemen out there know that it is never too late to alter your world views. For instance, not all wives are 100% responsible for cleaning the house. You can help as well, although personally, I have not found many men that are that good at cleaning, nor maids for that matter. I prefer to waste an entire saturday - one of my precious days off - cleaning my house. In any case, I understand this attitude of mine is why so many men prefer women that have not been shown the recent liberties that some women have finally acquired for themselves. To each their own - I respect your decision - please don't get me wrong.

[Cuban]

Having a cleaner is more of a status symbol than anything else, as for the holidays - yes you should only give the major days, and depending on the situation we would require them to work (office staff not domestics) if there was custom and allow them to add it to annual vacation time (again a generous act).

[earlofwindermere]

One thing to add to envirogirl. The 5 day work week is not standard here. Nearly every company and organization work 6 days per week. (Govt do work 5). I think that a 6 day work week is pretty standard in most non-western countries. It may be good advice to you as well to not impose your western values and work ethic on the Thai culture as well. I say this half-sarcastically as our office only works 5 days a week.

[earlofwindermere]

I guess that it is also to point out that labour laws do not apply to domestic staff in Thailand. This includes even the most basic things like work hours, social welfare payments, etc. There really is a built-in double class system in Thailand.

[MJo]

There is no need to take advantage of people's desperate positions in life. If you, as an educated professional from a developed country, get days off why can't your house staff as well? As for you business owners - just because you work 24/7 doesn't mean your staff have to! Unless they own some share of your company - why should they? Have them work hard when the moment requires, but not every waking moment. Its your venture, your livelihood, your risk.

I do agree what you are saying except people working for tesco's or domestic work for foreigners are not in desperate position. They are actully well off having a ok and fairly secure jobs.

Also i would not go over the top in other direction either. Will land you in more trouble sooner or later. For office staff you need to follow the law or better even give the extra 3 days as someone suggested. For domestic at least the major ones and sundays like everyone else.

I use temp cleaner who comes in for a half day or so 3 times a week. For those who oppose it and think it's the wifes job i can only tell that for me it is about convenience as my wife works hard and long days and also economics. It won't make sense to pull the wife out from her good job just to save 4K on cleaners wages.