How Easy For Thai Gf To Get Visa For Uk

[pleasantphesant]

i would like to take my Gf to uk. few problems, she doesnt have a passport, she works but cash in hand, we a have been togeather and living togeather for about 6 months, we have photos of us togeather and emails i think her family owns land. i also have no assets to my name and if she cam to uk, we would be supported by my family.

any ideas, not looking good i doubt. also i know obtaining a passport would be first step. also where can she get a passport.

thanks

mr clueless

[rabcbroon]

i would like to take my Gf to uk. few problems, she doesnt have a passport, she works but cash in hand, we a have been togeather and living togeather for about 6 months, we have photos of us togeather and emails i think her family owns land. i also have no assets to my name and if she cam to uk, we would be supported by my family.

any ideas, not looking good i doubt. also i know obtaining a passport would be first step. also where can she get a passport.

thanks

mr clueless

She can get a passport from the passport office. However, I wouldn't waste the money as with your situation I would guess your chances of getting a visa for a girl known to you for only six months are nil. If you have been together and living together for six months why do you send each othere emails?

[gotlost]

i would like to take my Gf to uk. few problems, she doesnt have a passport, she works but cash in hand, we a have been togeather and living togeather for about 6 months, we have photos of us togeather and emails i think her family owns land. i also have no assets to my name and if she cam to uk, we would be supported by my family.

any ideas, not looking good i doubt. also i know obtaining a passport would be first step. also where can she get a passport.

thanks

mr clueless

Suggestion: leave Thailand with out her. You are in no position to do this.

[pleasantphesant]

sorry forgot to say been togeather for a year living togeather for 6months. so i take it there is no chance of getting a visa for her, i have heard that i would be possible for my family to guarantee her, and write letters, of invitaion. i just think its highly unfair that i can go travel anywhere i the world and thai people theres red tape.

why cant she just go visa office and at least try and apply, you never know until you try. ps i didnt meet her in sleezeville ie she is not a lady of the night

[gbswales]

i would like to take my Gf to uk. few problems, she doesnt have a passport, she works but cash in hand, we a have been togeather and living togeather for about 6 months, we have photos of us togeather and emails i think her family owns land. i also have no assets to my name and if she cam to uk, we would be supported by my family.

any ideas, not looking good i doubt. also i know obtaining a passport would be first step. also where can she get a passport.

thanks

mr clueless

The first piece of advice I will give anyone is not to get suckered in by agencies promising you visas - even if they are run by UK people - I did and it was a complete waste of money for a visa that was refused. The later visa in which I used common sense and advice from the guys on here workded ok.

I presume that you are going for a visitor visa - it wont be an easy route but I dont think it should be impossible

1) Dont apply for her to stay for 6 months - that is how long the visa will be valid for but I think they are suspicious of applications for 6 month stays (my boyfriend - now civil partner - came for 6 weeks and then on the same visa returned for another 6 weeks - it was expensive in fares but it helped the next application that he could show he had flown back on the date he said he would each time

2) Dont put anything that isnt 100% true in her application and be very clear on a single reason for the visit - dont try and hide the relationship - they will guess trust me (that is what the visa agency did wrong for us - they fudged the reason and didnt mention he was my boyfriend because of the large age gap) When I did the second visa I even put as one of the items evidencing his return that he would not wish to jeopardises a second application

3) Give as much information as you can - much more than they actually ask for on the forms - as I recall our first application was accompanied by a 20 pocket plastic folder full of evidence.

4) It is absolutely essential that you get written evidence from your parents that they will totally support her financialy during the visit - they will need to provide bank statements going back over 3-6 months to prove that they can afford it

5) If you can get your g/fs family to write supporting you that may help - plus any evidence of assets she has in Thailand - remember even family ties and closeness can show motivation to return - which is what you are trying to prove

6) Photos of you and your girlfriend in social situations and photographs of your family's home and the accommodation she will have

7) She may get paid cash in hand but if she can get a letter from her employer accepting this as a holiday and confirming she has a job when she gets back it may help

8) Get some letters from friends in Thailand and the UK giving references for you and your girlfriend (and maybe some that mention your whole family)

9) Assuming that she has never worked in a bar or been part of the sex industry then personally I would get her to state this clearly in the application - they dont ask that but unfortunately it is a preconceived notion about western Thai relationships in some minds(my B/f never had and also didnt drink either - all that went in)

This may seem like a lot but it is very good preparation if later you want to Marry and go through the whole process for that visa. Do make sure you check everything 3 times before submitting the application because if they reject it for lack of information you dont get the fee back and its much more now than when my b/f applied

I am not an "expert" or "legally qualified" in any way and this is all just from experience so listen to other good advice as well

We were not an "easy case" either, we are gay and have a 40 year age gap (in age rather than mind) we got the visitor visa, we got the fiance visa and then the two year visa after the partnership - now we are waiting on a response to the application for indefnite leave to remain which went in September....they seemingly have a big backlog at the moment and its just a waiting game.

I wish you and your girlfriend the very best of luck - make sure you read up on the website and follow all the rules

Edited October 26, 2009 by gbswales

[pleasantphesant]

i would like to take my Gf to uk. few problems, she doesnt have a passport, she works but cash in hand, we a have been togeather and living togeather for about 6 months, we have photos of us togeather and emails i think her family owns land. i also have no assets to my name and if she cam to uk, we would be supported by my family.

any ideas, not looking good i doubt. also i know obtaining a passport would be first step. also where can she get a passport.

thanks

mr clueless

The first piece of advice I will give anyone is not to get suckered in by agencies promising you visas - even if they are run by UK people - I did and it was a complete waste of money for a visa that was refused. The later visa in which I used common sense and advice from the guys on here workded ok.

I presume that you are going for a visitor visa - it wont be an easy route but I dont think it should be impossible

1) Dont apply for her to stay for 6 months - that is how long the visa will be valid for but I think they are suspicious of applications for 6 month stays (my boyfriend - now civil partner - came for 6 weeks and then on the same visa returned for another 6 weeks - it was expensive in fares but it helped the next application that he could show he had flown back on the date he said he would each time

2) Dont put anything that isnt 100% true in her application and be very clear on a single reason for the visit - dont try and hide the relationship - they will guess trust me (that is what the visa agency did wrong for us - they fudged the reason and didnt mention he was my boyfriend because of the large age gap) When I did the second visa I even put as one of the items evidencing his return that he would not wish to jeopardises a second application

3) Give as much information as you can - much more than they actually ask for on the forms - as I recall our first application was accompanied by a 20 pocket plastic folder full of evidence.

4) It is absolutely essential that you get written evidence from your parents that they will totally support her financialy during the visit - they will need to provide bank statements going back over 3-6 months to prove that they can afford it

5) If you can get your g/fs family to write supporting you that may help - plus any evidence of assets she has in Thailand - remember even family ties and closeness can show motivation to return - which is what you are trying to prove

6) Photos of you and your girlfriend in social situations and photographs of your family's home and the accommodation she will have

7) She may get paid cash in hand but if she can get a letter from her employer accepting this as a holiday and confirming she has a job when she gets back it may help

8) Get some letters from friends in Thailand and the UK giving references for you and your girlfriend (and maybe some that mention your whole family)

9) Assuming that she has never worked in a bar or been part of the sex industry then personally I would get her to state this clearly in the application - they dont ask that but unfortunately it is a preconceived notion about western Thai relationships in some minds(my B/f never had and also didnt drink either - all that went in)

This may seem like a lot but it is very good preparation if later you want to Marry and go through the whole process for that visa. Do make sure you check everything 3 times before submitting the application because if they reject it for lack of information you dont get the fee back and its much more now than when my b/f applied

I am not an "expert" or "legally qualified" in any way and this is all just from experience so listen to other good advice as well

We were not an "easy case" either, we are gay and have a 40 year age gap (in age rather than mind) we got the visitor visa, we got the fiance visa and then the two year visa after the partnership - now we are waiting on a response to the application for indefnite leave to remain which went in September....they seemingly have a big backlog at the moment and its just a waiting game.

I wish you and your girlfriend the very best of luck - make sure you read up on the website and follow all the rules

thanks for the info, so first passport. also where we go to apply and the website. well document gathering will be first. again thanks.

[gotlost]

i would like to take my Gf to uk. few problems, she doesnt have a passport, she works but cash in hand, we a have been togeather and living togeather for about 6 months, we have photos of us togeather and emails i think her family owns land. i also have no assets to my name and if she cam to uk, we would be supported by my family.

any ideas, not looking good i doubt. also i know obtaining a passport would be first step. also where can she get a passport.

thanks

mr clueless

The first piece of advice I will give anyone is not to get suckered in by agencies promising you visas - even if they are run by UK people - I did and it was a complete waste of money for a visa that was refused. The later visa in which I used common sense and advice from the guys on here workded ok.

I presume that you are going for a visitor visa - it wont be an easy route but I dont think it should be impossible

1) Dont apply for her to stay for 6 months - that is how long the visa will be valid for but I think they are suspicious of applications for 6 month stays (my boyfriend - now civil partner - came for 6 weeks and then on the same visa returned for another 6 weeks - it was expensive in fares but it helped the next application that he could show he had flown back on the date he said he would each time

2) Dont put anything that isnt 100% true in her application and be very clear on a single reason for the visit - dont try and hide the relationship - they will guess trust me (that is what the visa agency did wrong for us - they fudged the reason and didnt mention he was my boyfriend because of the large age gap) When I did the second visa I even put as one of the items evidencing his return that he would not wish to jeopardises a second application

3) Give as much information as you can - much more than they actually ask for on the forms - as I recall our first application was accompanied by a 20 pocket plastic folder full of evidence.

4) It is absolutely essential that you get written evidence from your parents that they will totally support her financialy during the visit - they will need to provide bank statements going back over 3-6 months to prove that they can afford it

5) If you can get your g/fs family to write supporting you that may help - plus any evidence of assets she has in Thailand - remember even family ties and closeness can show motivation to return - which is what you are trying to prove

6) Photos of you and your girlfriend in social situations and photographs of your family's home and the accommodation she will have

7) She may get paid cash in hand but if she can get a letter from her employer accepting this as a holiday and confirming she has a job when she gets back it may help

8) Get some letters from friends in Thailand and the UK giving references for you and your girlfriend (and maybe some that mention your whole family)

9) Assuming that she has never worked in a bar or been part of the sex industry then personally I would get her to state this clearly in the application - they dont ask that but unfortunately it is a preconceived notion about western Thai relationships in some minds(my B/f never had and also didnt drink either - all that went in)

This may seem like a lot but it is very good preparation if later you want to Marry and go through the whole process for that visa. Do make sure you check everything 3 times before submitting the application because if they reject it for lack of information you dont get the fee back and its much more now than when my b/f applied

I am not an "expert" or "legally qualified" in any way and this is all just from experience so listen to other good advice as well

We were not an "easy case" either, we are gay and have a 40 year age gap (in age rather than mind) we got the visitor visa, we got the fiance visa and then the two year visa after the partnership - now we are waiting on a response to the application for indefnite leave to remain which went in September....they seemingly have a big backlog at the moment and its just a waiting game.

I wish you and your girlfriend the very best of luck - make sure you read up on the website and follow all the rules

thanks for the info, so first passport. also where we go to apply and the website. well document gathering will be first. again thanks.

OK so you plane on going down this road at least go to a visa service it wont be cheep but you and her lack of finical commitment lake of reason for returning may be a block and visa service do know where to cross the T's and dot the I's and rember its not for them to prove she is not a laddy of the night its her job to prove it . Thay's the way it is. Nothing in life is fair. Period! You are not the first and you well not be the last. Wish you luck

[pleasantphesant]

i would like to take my Gf to uk. few problems, she doesnt have a passport, she works but cash in hand, we a have been togeather and living togeather for about 6 months, we have photos of us togeather and emails i think her family owns land. i also have no assets to my name and if she cam to uk, we would be supported by my family.

any ideas, not looking good i doubt. also i know obtaining a passport would be first step. also where can she get a passport.

thanks

mr clueless

The first piece of advice I will give anyone is not to get suckered in by agencies promising you visas - even if they are run by UK people - I did and it was a complete waste of money for a visa that was refused. The later visa in which I used common sense and advice from the guys on here workded ok.

I presume that you are going for a visitor visa - it wont be an easy route but I dont think it should be impossible

1) Dont apply for her to stay for 6 months - that is how long the visa will be valid for but I think they are suspicious of applications for 6 month stays (my boyfriend - now civil partner - came for 6 weeks and then on the same visa returned for another 6 weeks - it was expensive in fares but it helped the next application that he could show he had flown back on the date he said he would each time

2) Dont put anything that isnt 100% true in her application and be very clear on a single reason for the visit - dont try and hide the relationship - they will guess trust me (that is what the visa agency did wrong for us - they fudged the reason and didnt mention he was my boyfriend because of the large age gap) When I did the second visa I even put as one of the items evidencing his return that he would not wish to jeopardises a second application

3) Give as much information as you can - much more than they actually ask for on the forms - as I recall our first application was accompanied by a 20 pocket plastic folder full of evidence.

4) It is absolutely essential that you get written evidence from your parents that they will totally support her financialy during the visit - they will need to provide bank statements going back over 3-6 months to prove that they can afford it

5) If you can get your g/fs family to write supporting you that may help - plus any evidence of assets she has in Thailand - remember even family ties and closeness can show motivation to return - which is what you are trying to prove

6) Photos of you and your girlfriend in social situations and photographs of your family's home and the accommodation she will have

7) She may get paid cash in hand but if she can get a letter from her employer accepting this as a holiday and confirming she has a job when she gets back it may help

8) Get some letters from friends in Thailand and the UK giving references for you and your girlfriend (and maybe some that mention your whole family)

9) Assuming that she has never worked in a bar or been part of the sex industry then personally I would get her to state this clearly in the application - they dont ask that but unfortunately it is a preconceived notion about western Thai relationships in some minds(my B/f never had and also didnt drink either - all that went in)

This may seem like a lot but it is very good preparation if later you want to Marry and go through the whole process for that visa. Do make sure you check everything 3 times before submitting the application because if they reject it for lack of information you dont get the fee back and its much more now than when my b/f applied

I am not an "expert" or "legally qualified" in any way and this is all just from experience so listen to other good advice as well

We were not an "easy case" either, we are gay and have a 40 year age gap (in age rather than mind) we got the visitor visa, we got the fiance visa and then the two year visa after the partnership - now we are waiting on a response to the application for indefnite leave to remain which went in September....they seemingly have a big backlog at the moment and its just a waiting game.

I wish you and your girlfriend the very best of luck - make sure you read up on the website and follow all the rules

thanks for the info, so first passport. also where we go to apply and the website. well document gathering will be first. again thanks.

OK so you plane on going down this road at least go to a visa service it wont be cheep but you and her lack of finical commitment lake of reason for returning may be a block and visa service do know where to cross the T's and dot the I's and rember its not for them to prove she is not a laddy of the night its her job to prove it . Thay's the way it is. Nothing in life is fair. Period! You are not the first and you well not be the last. Wish you luck

can you recommend any good visa serice companys ( not money scamming cowboys)

[OxfordWill]

They care about one thing only with regards giving her the visa or not: Will she come back to Thailand when the visa expires, or will she try and illegally stay in the UK.

You know your girlfriend, and you know she isnt like that and will have good intentions.

The embassy does NOT know this. They need PROOF. In their eyes, this is "considerable" holdings of land, business, children, job.. something which would be enough of an argument to counter the embassies belief that life in England is so much better than in Thailand. Behind the scenes they will also want to "know" her intentions are good and you are not being hoodwinked, and 6 months living together is very unlikely to satisfy this.

Please also note guarantee letters from family etc are not worth anything to them.

Please prepare for the worst and fully expect, and tell your gf to expect, it will not work. It is likely you will be interviewed separately, even for a visit visa. They will focus on her interview and not yours.

The only cases which are like yours (short time known, no money or assets and not based on education in england) I have come across where this situation has been happy and successful is where the Thai girl is connected to someone important and a letter can be provided by a Thai person to the embassy. While an English staff will be the signatory on your rejection it is not to be ignored that Thai workers do most of the "filtering" of suitable applicants.

Edited October 26, 2009 by OxfordWill

[thaiphoon]

They care about one thing only with regards giving her the visa or not: Will she come back to Thailand when the visa expires, or will she try and illegally stay in the UK.

You know your girlfriend, and you know she isnt like that and will have good intentions.

The embassy does NOT know this. They need PROOF. In their eyes, this is "considerable" holdings of land, business, children, job.. something which would be enough of an argument to counter the embassies belief that life in England is so much better than in Thailand. Behind the scenes they will also want to "know" her intentions are good and you are not being hoodwinked, and 6 months living together is very unlikely to satisfy this.

Please also note guarantee letters from family etc are not worth anything to them.

Please prepare for the worst and fully expect, and tell your gf to expect, it will not work. It is likely you will be interviewed separately, even for a visit visa. They will focus on her interview and not yours.

The only cases which are like yours (short time known, no money or assets and not based on education in england) I have come across where this situation has been happy and successful is where the Thai girl is connected to someone important and a letter can be provided by a Thai person to the embassy. While an English staff will be the signatory on your rejection it is not to be ignored that Thai workers do most of the "filtering" of suitable applicants.

Good post. Agree with you 100%. The Op needs to be focused on the reason for gf wanting to return to Thailand and not overstaing in UK. That is the most important aspect that will be looked at. Also consider what do you have in Thailand for the 2 of you to return to. Business/condo/job etc? All good reasons to return together.

[7by7]

Pleasantphesant, some good advice above, some not so good.

Many people in your situation have successfully applied for UK visit visas for their Thai partner, even when their partner has no job or other concrete reason to return. The ECO has to be satisfied that, on the balance of probabilities, the applicant is a genuine visitor, with a genuine reason to visit and will leave the UK when, or before, the visa expires.

So, you should write a sponsor's letter outlining the history of your relationship, the reason for the visit at this time and what your future plans are together. Also provide as much evidence of the lenghth etc. of the relationship as you can. If the ECO feels that you are a genuine couple then they will also feel that you would not want to jeopardise your future together by overstaying a visit.

They will also want to be satisfied that she has enough finances for the visit, either from her own resources, those of another person or a combination. Whoever is providing the finances should provide evidence of their ability to do so; bank statements, pay slips etc. If it is a member of your family they should write a letter of invitation and say why they are financing her trip.

She will also need to show that she will have adequate accommodation while in the UK. She may, of course, stay with your family. Whoever is providing the accommodation should write a letter of invitation, briefly describing the accommodation available to show there is room for her. Sharing a room with you should not be a problem. They should also provide proof that she has permission to stay; if they own then proof of this such as a mortgage statement or copy of the deeds; if they rent then a letter from their landlord granting permission for you to stay in the property.

The following links may be helpful:

Visitors (INF 2)

Guidance - Sponsors (INF 3)

For where and how to apply, fees, required documents etc., see Official UK visa application website in Thailand

If you do decide to use an agent, beware! There are many so-called visa agents in Thailand who are mere form fillers, some are con artists! If you are going to use an agent you should choose one who is qualified and regulated in the UK; that is one who is registered with the OISC.

[Mossfinn]

PP,

You now have a myriad of information, including relevant links, can I suggest you now read through and from there you will have more direct questions that will suit your particular perspective.

From there further responses and answers will follow, if you respond to a spike, it soaks up your time, of which you may have found better employed researching your particular situation.

It's always a personal choice whether to read a post, or indeed respond to one, no need to get worked up about it, me thinks

Edited October 27, 2009 by Mossfinn

[Lite Beer]

Inflammatory posts and the answers to them deleted.

Please be pleasant.

[gbswales]

OK so you plane on going down this road at least go to a visa service it wont be cheep but you and her lack of finical commitment lake of reason for returning may be a block and visa service do know where to cross the T's and dot the I's and rember its not for them to prove she is not a laddy of the night its her job to prove it . Thay's the way it is. Nothing in life is fair. Period! You are not the first and you well not be the last. Wish you luck

This was not my experience - the advice I got was wrong - thy took a lot of money and the application failed. I did it again myself with advice from here and it worked. We have just done the final step and my partner has just been given "indefiniet leave to remain"

Where did we start?

1) gay relationship

2) 40 year age difference

3) Partner had no assetts in Thailand

The only things we were able to declare was that he didnt drink, had never worked in a bar and had never had anything to do with the sex industry (though we could we could only state that)

I followed the lines above - I am not an expert just a moderately intelligent guy - each time I gave them MUCH MORE information than they asked for and organised it clearly in a folder with an index - for each application I enclosed supporting letters from people that knew us and knew our relationship to be genuine. Another friend of mine is using a UK immigration lawyer to fight for a visa (not from Thailand) and is having real difficulty - personally I would never use a representative unless maybe to appeal (which thankfully we havent needed to do) - the next challenge in 2010 is go for full UK citizenship. With the big age gap, the odds are that I will die first and I want to ensure his right to live in the UK if he chooses - I also want him to be able to travel in Europe without visas

[gbswales]

The Op needs to be focused on the reason for gf wanting to return to Thailand and not overstaing in UK. That is the most important aspect that will be looked at. Also consider what do you have in Thailand for the 2 of you to return to. Business/condo/job etc? All good reasons to return together.

The main reason we gave that my now partner would return was that we wer intending to marry in the future and he would not want to jeopardise a future visa application by overstaying - the only thing that i would say is that I did have means to support him and that we had known each other a little longer - so maybe a patient wait is called for if it is rejected. I was also told that first applications are often rejected so you may have to cough up twice the first time, as I did.

one thing if you do get the visa make sure she complies with whatever return date she has given - if necessary let her go home and come back for a second visit later before the visa expires.

[slapout]

After reading this I am not in envy of the op's family. If you do not have the assets/means to get her into the country , how will you support the 2 of you while she is there? No age/occupation was mentioned for either of you, but when you ask where to get a passport, wet behind the ears came to mind. sure hope your dreams come true.

[gregchambers]

You need to start with her job, if necessary pay for some headed paper for the business and then get her employer to sign a letter stating that she has been working for him for x years and will have a job when she comes back after say a month's holiday. This will also show she is not a bargirl. If you lived together for six months you need to show the lease with both your names on it (possibly you can get this from the landlord retrospectively). I am not suggesting making anything up just getting things down on paper so that in the eyes of embassy they have something that helps them tick the boxes.

One of the passport offices in is the carpark at Central Bangna (the one on the highway to Pattaya from Bangkok), the other is out by the old airport. She needs ID card and house registration book and to be over 21 (or get her parents to sign for her). I think it is around the 1000 baht mark for a passport.

A letter of support from your parents (I assume with proof of accommodation and income and savings) may or may not help. I would suggest you sponsor her directly with supprrt letter from parents.

If she is coming for a month you need to prove funds, ideally they would have been built up over the year in her bank account and I'd say at least 100k baht - or a couple of grand in your own account if you are sponsoring her.

One thing that would make a huge difference is if you were able to get a job offer in Thailand, proving that you both have a good reason to return.

If she has been supporting her family that will also help, as will any land in her name,

I would say emphasing the length of your relationship and your own intention to return to Thailand for work (you can always change your mind later) would be elements that could swing things your way - probably a 30-40 percent of success given your own lack of resources and the girl's lack of reason to return. But even if you fail there is nothing to stop you trying again in a few months time (and the previous application will be proof of relationship), so give it a go. It is only 3k for a visitors visa (and search on this forum to make sure she goes to the right office in Regent House and not the visa agency next door)

BTW some of the agencies produce forged paperwork and if the embassy finds out she will be banned for applying for a visa for ten years so I would avoid, as Thai girls tend to be in awe of suited types and do whatever they say.

[brewsterbudgen]

A few posts have made reference to whether or not the applicant has ever been a bargirl/boy. My understanding is that previous work in the bar industry does not mean that the visa will automatically be refused. In fact there must be countless examples of visas being granted for ex-bar employees. While being an ex-bargirl/boy shouldn't mean not getting a visa, lying about it will.

[gregchambers]

I am sure that one of the things the embassy considers is the possibility of women taking up hugely paid work as hookers in the UK, and people who have already worked in the bars much more likely to go this route - hence the ability to show that the applicant is not a bargirl must weigh in a marginal case... hence good work history and saving a moderate amount of money over a reasonable time period have to be good things to back up an application

[Thongkorn]

With respect . I would think that Girls that have worked in the sex industry would want to get away from it, many girls only work in Bars because there is no other work ,The Mith is that they like what they do. believe me many do not , Most people i know who have married a bargirl, or ex bargirl have found them honest and trustworthy, As long as you show reason to return to Thailand it should not be a problem, If she has children that would not be a reason to return , If you can prove she has close Family ties, forgive the pun.And a source of income , a bank book would be a good thing.As for your parents, as long as they show they have the financial capability and that there is room in the house there should be no problem with that , I have see people get Holiday visas for there girl with less than six months, Go for it , Do it yourself it will not cost you a lot , Go on The British Embassy site print off your vaf forms , it will tell you how to fill them in , you have nothing to lose , best of luck mate ,