Customary Kickback Payments When Selling Rice?

[thedi]

Each time when we sell rice there is a cut of 10% on the wight because of too high humidity. This year as well. But our rice has been in our store house for 10 month and was as dry as rice ever gets.

Two weeks ago we sold our last years harvest to a Chinese dealer in Ban Phai - some 25 km away from our village - we filled it into bags about 30 kg each and loaded it on a truck of a neighbor who went to sell it. This year I went along because nobody else of our family had time to go. The Chinese rice dealer said to my chaufeur '10% cut' and 8.90 Baht per kilo (which is about the current market price for sticky rice) right away - before he was aware that I speak Thai. When he got aware of my understanding of Thai he went into long explanations which did not add anything to the fact that I had the choice between a 10% cut on the weight combined with a price of 8.90 Baht/kilo or no cut but only 8 Baht/kilo - which is actually quite the same.

When we had unloaded and I got paid the Chinese dealer reappeared to the scene and gave each of us a bottle of M150. He also waifed the change of about 150 Baht - rounding 38'850 up to 39'000. Lots of smiling and 'see you again next year' etc. When I went back to our truck my chauffeur lingered to the back of the house, sipping his M150 away, as if he wanted to go for a piss. I wondered if he actually would piss behind the Chinese's house...

But then he went just for two/three seconds behind the corner, then reappeared and we drove home. I didn¨t think anything about this at the moment but...

I got suspicious when a few days later I saw the bill from his own sold of his own rice which he carelessly forgot in his truck: there was no 10% cut and the price was 9.10 Baht/kilo. The price difference could be explained because it floats from day to day and dealer to dealer - but the no-cut surprised me. I talked to people in the village. Everybody complained about the 'bad cheating' Chinese rice dealers - each and every one had suffered a 10% cut on the weight.

There are two trucks in our village and there are about a dozen Chinese rice dealers who buy rice in our region. The truck owners are neighbors and friends, they get 800 Baht for a 25 km ride with 4 to 5 tons of rice.

Now I wonder if there is a kickback payment custom for chauffeurs if they supports the dealers claim for a 10% weight cut - with the fantastic reason of high humidity...

Does anybody know anything? Has anybody own experiences?

Regards

Thedi

Edited October 29, 2009 by thedi

[gotlost]

Each time when we sell rice there is a cut of 10% on the wight because of too high humidity. This year as well. But our rice has been in our store house for 10 month and was as dry as rice ever gets.

Two weeks ago we sold our last years harvest to a Chinese dealer in Ban Phai - some 25 km away from our village - we filled it into bags about 30 kg each and loaded it on a truck of a neighbor who went to sell it. This year I went along because nobody else of our family had time to go. The Chinese rice dealer said to my chaufeur '10% cut' and 8.90 Baht per kilo (which is about the current market price for sticky rice) right away - before he was aware that I speak Thai. When he got aware of my understanding of Thai he went into long explanations which did not add anything to the fact that I had the choice between a 10% cut on the weight combined with a price of 8.90 Baht/kilo or no cut but only 8 Baht/kilo - which is actually quite the same.

When we had unloaded and I got paid the Chinese dealer reappeared to the scene and gave each of us a bottle of M150. He also waifed the change of about 150 Baht - rounding 38'850 up to 39'000. Lots of smiling and 'see you again next year' etc. When I went back to our truck my chauffeur lingered to the back of the house, sipping his M150 away, as if he wanted to go for a piss. I wondered if he actually would piss behind the Chinese's house...

But then he went just for two/three seconds behind the corner, then reappeared and we drove home. I didn¨t think anything about this at the moment but...

I got suspicious when a few days later I saw the bill from his own sold of his own rice which he carelessly forgot in his truck: there was no 10% cut and the price was 9.10 Baht/kilo. The price difference could be explained because it floats from day to day and dealer to dealer - but the no-cut surprised me. I talked to people in the village. Everybody complained about the 'bad cheating' Chinese rice dealers - each and every one had suffered a 10% cut on the weight.

There are two trucks in our village and there are about a dozen Chinese rice dealers who buy rice in our region. The truck owners are neighbors and friends, they get 800 Baht for a 25 km ride with 4 to 5 tons of rice.

Now I wonder if there is a kickback payment custom for chauffeurs if they supports the dealers claim for a 10% weight cut - with the fantastic reason of high humidity...

Does anybody know anything? Has anybody own experiences?

Regards

Thedi

I won't say it does not happen but never heard of it or saw it in Surin.

[thedi]

I won't say it does not happen but never heard of it or saw it in Surin.

Did you get a 10% cut on the weight because of humidity when you sold your rice. How about your neighbors?

We are speaking here about 10 month old rice which was stored in an adequate way. Not new rice.

Regards

Thedi

[Maizefarmer]

Each time when we sell rice there is a cut of 10% on the wight because of too high humidity. This year as well. But our rice has been in our store house for 10 month and was as dry as rice ever gets.

Two weeks ago we sold our last years harvest to a Chinese dealer in Ban Phai - some 25 km away from our village - we filled it into bags about 30 kg each and loaded it on a truck of a neighbor who went to sell it. This year I went along because nobody else of our family had time to go. The Chinese rice dealer said to my chaufeur '10% cut' and 8.90 Baht per kilo (which is about the current market price for sticky rice) right away - before he was aware that I speak Thai. When he got aware of my understanding of Thai he went into long explanations which did not add anything to the fact that I had the choice between a 10% cut on the weight combined with a price of 8.90 Baht/kilo or no cut but only 8 Baht/kilo - which is actually quite the same.

When we had unloaded and I got paid the Chinese dealer reappeared to the scene and gave each of us a bottle of M150. He also waifed the change of about 150 Baht - rounding 38'850 up to 39'000. Lots of smiling and 'see you again next year' etc. When I went back to our truck my chauffeur lingered to the back of the house, sipping his M150 away, as if he wanted to go for a piss. I wondered if he actually would piss behind the Chinese's house...

But then he went just for two/three seconds behind the corner, then reappeared and we drove home. I didn¨t think anything about this at the moment but...

I got suspicious when a few days later I saw the bill from his own sold of his own rice which he carelessly forgot in his truck: there was no 10% cut and the price was 9.10 Baht/kilo. The price difference could be explained because it floats from day to day and dealer to dealer - but the no-cut surprised me. I talked to people in the village. Everybody complained about the 'bad cheating' Chinese rice dealers - each and every one had suffered a 10% cut on the weight.

There are two trucks in our village and there are about a dozen Chinese rice dealers who buy rice in our region. The truck owners are neighbors and friends, they get 800 Baht for a 25 km ride with 4 to 5 tons of rice.

Now I wonder if there is a kickback payment custom for chauffeurs if they supports the dealers claim for a 10% weight cut - with the fantastic reason of high humidity...

Does anybody know anything? Has anybody own experiences?

Regards

Thedi

You wonder if theres a Kickback for the driver ??? - I can tell you its an absolute dead cert he gets a slice of the cake from the old china boy.

[finner]

What sort of testing, if any, did they do on the sticky rice to determine the value?

My only experience is with Hom Mali rice in the Surin area and there are so many places to take it to, you never get screwed. They always test the samples from several kasops (bags) by taking the husk off, vibrating the heck out of the grains and pay off on the percentage of grains that survive. ie if 90% survive, they cut 10% off the going rate. When I say survive I mean that the grains are large enough not to pass through a predesignated hole size. They don't care how old the rice is or how it's been stored. If it's too wet, it crumbles and if its too old or dry it breaks, and if it's been cut with an aggressive harvester and broken, it just slips through the holes in the testing device.

There is a certificate of quality given to the owner along with a receipt. Does any of this ring a bell?

What the locals here do complain about is the hole size and they will go around to different purchasers to see who has the smallest holes and therefore gives the best price.

[thedi]

What sort of testing, if any, did they do on the sticky rice to determine the value?

An employee took some samples of several bags and went away with them. After a while he reappeared and showed us what he told to be the milled rice of our harvest.

But the Chines dealer mentioned the 10% cut off long before this ceremony (before the employee came back with what he said was our samples).

Another point: the rice we sold and the rice which our truck driver sold came from the same fields, the same harvest. We did the fields together and then shared the harvest. We got a cut off of 10% - he did not. Our rice store is quite new and certainly does not leak. His rice store is old and the corrugated irons of his roof are full of holes. I am sure that his and our rice are of the same quality - except that ours was stored in a better place.

I am sure that the rice farmers around here (Khon Kaen) get cheated. The same seems to be customary with eucalyptus: some of the paper factory pay a kickback to truck drivers in return for an agreement to a lower quality. Truck drivers from our village take a much longer ride to Nam Pong (90 km) where kickbacks are paid instead of selling the eucalyptus near Bora Bue (40 km) where no kickbacks are paid. Their explanations are verbose but sound fishy to me.

This is no problem for me. It is at it is. I am not depending on rice harvest or rice prices, I am not a farmer. My money comes from Switzerland. But I would like to know how the Thai system ticks.

Best regards

Thedi

[finner]

Thedi, a couple of questions:

Do you have a pickup truck?

Do you have a rice storage house?

Do you need the money right away?

I don't know about sticky rice. Does it have to be sold as soon as it is harvested or can it be stored?

We also live about 25 Km from the agents but have 5 to choose from. We never sell our rice after harvest, always dry it, store it, wait a few months and take it to the agents a bit at a time, one trip, as much as my pickup can carry. A month later, another trip etc. The price for Hom mali tends to go up over time and will again this year. My gf doesn't want to ever sell because the price always goes up but I've convinced her to "Baht cross average" so she does. A storage house is a great investment for us but maybe you could enlighten me on sticky rice...........

finner

[finner]

Just re-read your last post. NEVER let them test your rice unless you are there. Did they give you a certificate?

[thedi]

Do you have a pickup truck?

Do you have a rice storage house?

Do you need the money right away?

We have no pickup, but we sell with a truck of our neighbor. 4 tons would be a lot of pickup runs anyway.

Naturally we have a storage fro our rice. Our rice is 10 month old (see posts above).

Hom mali gets a better price (17 baht/kilo), but in Isaan the harvest is not so good (only about half of what we get from sticky rice).