An Expression Of Friendship

[JPRG]

I recently notice that some of the girls at a bar I have been frequenting for many years started to put the word อ้าย ("ai") in front of my name when addressing me. I was a little confused because I had always been aware this was a derogatory addressing prefix and the girls using it were the girls who had known me for many years without issue. I made some discrete enquiries and found it is also used as an expression of friendship and should feel honored that they are using it. Is there a female equivalent I can use when addressing them.

[Rikker]

Yes, that's correct. One of the many senses of this word listed in the Royal Institute Dictionary:

คําประกอบหน้าชื่อเพื่อนฝูงแสดงว่ามีความสนิทสนมมาก มักใช้กันในหมู่เด็กผู้ชาย

"A word prefixed to the names of friends to express close friendship; often used in male adolescent groups."

It comes from an archaic word meaning the eldest male child (ลูกอ้าย). In Lao/Isan it is still used in the sense of older brother, and is used much like พี่.

If you're friendly with them, you could call them น้อง.

[Tod Daniels]

Interesting you mention this word, as I was just listening to a song by Bird and Jintara which starts like this;

Bird: อีนางเอย

Jintara: อีหยังอ้าย

When I looked on thai-language I got the following somewhat relevant results for อ้าย;

*prefix, colloquial, ancient - word used by a superior male by placing it in front of an inferior male's name or nickname, e.g. a master calling servant

*prefix, colloquial, ancient - word used among male friends by placing it in front of nicknames to indicate their strong male bond or companionship

*prefix, colloquial, vulgar - a derogatory prefix placed in front of male names or nicknames to express insult—usually used in a negative way

*prefix, colloquial, ancient - an ancient prefix adults use by placing it in front of boys' or much younger men's names/nicknames to express familiarity or kind fondness

*titular honorific - used mostly in the country (the northern or northeastern provinces) by placing it in front of men's first names or nicknames

Looking at these meanings, it is clear to see that this word can carry both a positive (familiarity) and a negative (derogatory) connotation. Then again they could have been calling you by an honorific title, especially if they are from the northern or northeast provinces as the definition suggests.

I asked my friends they said it is a "lo-so, but-cutesy" form of address and wouldn’t be used with someone you didn't know very well indeed. When I pressed them on the degree of "knowledge" you must have with a person before you can use it; as in the biblical sense or just very familiar, they seemed to waffle a bit.

The opening line of your post; "girls at a bar I have been frequenting for many years", could put this in perspective. Bar-gurls are notorious for their use of almost over the top impolite and/or disrespectful slang as well as other forms of address. Inevitably when they are questioned about this subject they will play it off as a "show of respect". Maybe you answered your own question before you even asked it. I don’t think you should put that way of being addressed in the "feel honored" category, unless as I mentioned earlier you're surrounded by Issan princesses and are perceived as "gods gift to women" ..

I would imagine given the opening lines of the song I was listening to and quoted that the way you would address a female if she calls you อ้าย, is เอย, but I could most certainly be wrong.

Perhaps the other language pundits (whose knowledge far exceeds mine) can weigh in on this.

[DavidHouston]

I had thought that the more common spelling was ไอ้. Is that incorrect?

The RID entry for ไอ้ concludes with: ". . . เขียนเป็น อ้าย ก็มี"

Edited November 3, 2009 by DavidHouston

[mca]

With the younger female members of my wife's staff I've always found หนู has been a pretty safe bet. I'm always wary about dropping a clanger after calling a woman "auntie" who turned out to be the same age as me so I try and play it safe!

[rgs2001uk]

When used as a prefix to a womans name, อี "ee" is used in the same manner as อ้าย "ai".

I would be very careful about using it, proceed with caution, and dont use in public, most normal Thais would say you are speaking mai pot or mai supap at best.

I tend to err on the side of what Tod as said and the context used, when he refers to its use by ladies from a certain geographical location and their choice of employment.

If they refer to you as ai, refer to them as ee, and listen to the reaction, you will soon know if it was used as a friendly greeting.

[Rikker]

I wouldn't recommend going to อี. It doesn't have the connection to the kinship term that อ้าย/ไอ้ does, so I'd argue that he'd have to be closer to them to refer to them as อี___ without being offensive than for them to use ไอ้___ with him (especially since they're native speakers and he's not, and for all he knows they're also speakers of Isan/Lao).

I'd say น้อง or หนู is a better choice, depending on relative ages. Besides, if they know he speaks Thai and use ไอ้___ in front of his face, it should be clear enough in that situation if they are being friendly/familiar. I'd guess they are, given what he's said.

Also, David, in my experience ไอ้ is used more, yes. The older spelling is อ้าย, though. And the Lao word for elder brother is spelled ອ້າຽ = อ้าย, btw.

[shamus]

I have a very close female friend from Isaan who calls me 'ai yong', She tells me it's in reference to my curly locks. We have had some good discussions on the use of language in different situations. She insists her use of 'ai' is a display of confidence in our close relationship. She has told me it can be used to call someone in an inferior social standing (youths etc) she calls the dog 'ai Nui'

I'd love to get on top of this language. This knowledge is so valuable from meeting the right people, to not offending the inlaws to paying prices closer to Thai ones (be it for food/tours/police)

[-noodles-]

A male thai friend was telling me about this recently and said that it is a very informal way of saying 'khun' and is a very common way to address close male friends. I believe it can also be taken as being impolite or rude if you do not know the person that well.

[Rikker]

One other note. At least in Bangkok, close friends also switch the two name prefixes ไอ้/อี, sometimes calling a woman ไอ้__ or a man (especially an effeminate man) อีั___. My impression is that this reversal is only used in the close/friendly sense.

And the prefixing of ไอ้ and อี to animal names is not just common, it's conventional. The title of the Thai translation of Jack London's White Fang (the name of a dog in the story) is ไอ้เขี้ยวขาว.

Be warned though, there are some very dangerous uses of these terms that will nearly always be interpreted as strong insults. I mention them so you can *avoid* confrontation, of course -- if someone calls you these, they're spoiling for violence, and if you call someone these, expect the worst. ไอ้สัตว์, ไอ้หมา, ไอ้ควาย, or also with อี. There are more, but it's the particular combination of rude prefix plus animal that is not taken lightly except among *very* close friends, and often even not then. Tread lightly.

[JPRG]

Thanks for the advice, the more Thais I talk to about this the more confusing it gets, and now reading these post I am no nearer to understanding this language eccentricity. My basic question is what prefix do I use that is the equivalent to "ai". Is there a female equivalent or do I use "ai". I have noticed one other thing that the girls usually pronounce "ai" as "e" (a short e as in bed). I have asked Thais about this and they tell me it is a quicker way of pronouncing "ai". So one of the girls in question will get my attention my saying "e John" would it be gender appropriate to refer to her as "e Noi". Assume I am confident in the closeness in our relationship.

[Tod Daniels]

Now I don't feel so bad, even these two relatively simple terms of address (ไอ้/อี), can and often are difficult to understand. Different structural contexts, different regional meanings, different levels of comfort between speakers can and do play a part in exactly how this and many words are interpreted by the person you are addressing.

I did talk to the guys outside my apartment who sit after work, eating and drinking. FWIW these are middle class working thais, aged 43-47, who have had good jobs for many years in this area. They said ไอ้/อี are used by very close male friends (and often in reverse as pointed out earlier). They said a foreigner would be treading very close to the proverbial line to use them when addressing any thai male who they weren't already on familiar terms with. The chance for a misunderstanding is just too great. To a person they said if they heard a non native thai speaker using this term they would immediately jump to the negative connotation of the word and they would take offence (unless that foreigner was already a well known friend).

I asked them about thai gurls calling customers they know ไอ้ (or อ้าย), and they said only country girls who worked in the "time-share"/"rent-2-own trade" catering to foreigners would ever speak like that. What I thought was interesting was they went on to say that the "time-share"/"rent-2-own" thai gurls who worked in the karaoke/hostess bars catering almost exclusively to thai men would never think of addressing a regular customer in that manner within earshot of anyone else in the bar. Having been to both NEP as well as thai hostess bars with these guys before, I thought it interesting there would be such a double standard depending on the customer base.

Take it for what you will, but. .. I'd shy away from using any phrase which treads close to the invisible (but definitely there) line.

[GarryP]

เอย (euay) is used in Isan only when addressing women older than yourself and would be used among friends and family(it means elder sister and is also used as a term of respect for older friends). It is very common, as is Ai (elder brother, etc.). However, it is not normally followed by the person's name when speaking directly to such person. If you are referring to a person in their absence using ai followed by such person's name, if among friends and the tone of voice is right it is a friendly reference to such person. On the other hand with a different tone of voice it would be considered derogatory.

That is, ai Somchai can be both friendly or nasty depending on the situation and how it is used.

I would never use ee (อีั) to address woman unless she was younger than me and I was scolding her.

Perhaps in other areas of Thailand this is different.

Edited November 4, 2009 by GarryP

[Scottish Thailander]

I recently notice that some of the girls at a bar I have been frequenting for many years started to put the word อ้าย ("ai") in front of my name when addressing me. I was a little confused because I had always been aware this was a derogatory addressing prefix and the girls using it were the girls who had known me for many years without issue. I made some discrete enquiries and found it is also used as an expression of friendship and should feel honored that they are using it. Is there a female equivalent I can use when addressing them.

Are they definately saying "ai"? Could they be saying "nai" as in "Mr." to be polite?

ST.

[mangkorn]

Are they definately saying "ai"? Could they be saying "nai" as in "Mr." to be polite?

In a hooker bar? You're joking, right?

[JPRG]

Are they definately saying "ai"? Could they be saying "nai" as in "Mr." to be polite?

ST.

It is "ai" (sounds like eye) or sometimes "e" (short e as in bed) for sure.

Edited November 4, 2009 by JPRG

[Scottish Thailander]

Are they definately saying "ai"? Could they be saying "nai" as in "Mr." to be polite?

In a hooker bar? You're joking, right?

"Hey Mr., wanna have some fun?"

.

[mangkorn]

What I thought was interesting was they went on to say that the "time-share"/"rent-2-own" thai gurls who worked in the karaoke/hostess bars catering almost exclusively to thai men would never think of addressing a regular customer in that manner within earshot of anyone else in the bar.

Good observation. A woman who did so in that setting might lose her job, (or worse). In that particular social hierarchy, Thai (or Asian) men are superior, and expect to be treated with due deference, if not utter obsequiousness.

Just a couple years ago, a karaoke hostess declined the advances of a police official. He ordered his subordinates to cut off one of her arms, which they did. It was in the newspapers...

[meadish_sweetball]

If they use อ้าย only, not followed by a name, in my experience they would mean 'older brother' as only that title without the name is not used in a negative way (of course it could be inappropriate in some situations though). This is also often the form of address Northern Thai women refer to their boyfriend or husband, hence, not impolite in that context at all.

If it is followed by the name, then it could be either way.

In Northern Thai, the อ้าย equivalent to พี่ has a longer vowel sound than ไอ้ as an impolite/familiar prefix, and the sentence will generally end in a เจ้า particle which is the Northern Thai and Lao equivalent of ค่ะ คะ.

So the final particle and the general tone of voice will show if they mean it more as a honorific than as a joke/rude form of address.

It's a bit complicated to comment on a particular situation as already has been demonstrated, because the rest of their manners and body language also matter...

Even if it is the more rude form, if it is jocular, then it could just be an acknowledgment that they view you as a buddy and don't feel they need to go over the top to show respect.

In short if you think the situation feels okay then there probably is nothing to worry about, unless you are worried about being treated as a superior for some reason.

[RickBradford]

Here are the first few lines of a song from the famous Isaan ลูกทุ่ง singer ต่าย อรทัย

ลมวอยวอย เดือนสามฝนฮำ ดอกบักม่วงแล้วเด้ออ้าย ลมความคึดฮอดซูนใจ ทวงถามข่าวคำสัญญา

ฮักและหวังหวั่นไหว พอเฮาไกลห่างกันจึงรู้ค่า คอยอ้ายให้ส่งข่าวมา บอกย้ำคำว่ายังรักยังรอ

ดนล่ะเด้ออ้าย ที่เฮาสองบ่ได้เบิ่งตากัน เป็นหยังคือหายไปนาน เซาคึดฮอดกันแล้วบ้อ

The word อ้าย appears a few times, so presumably in the right setting, said by the right person, it is not offensive. Perhaps for 'falang', you should not try this at home...

Edited November 6, 2009 by RickBradford