Thai-cambodian Relations

[webfact]

THAI-CAMBODIAN RELATIONS

FACE-OFF

By Supalak Ganjanakhundee

The Nation

Published on November 6, 2009

Thailand recalls envoy from Cambodia, Phnom Penh retaliates in kind

Just as many had feared, the stormy relationship between Thailand and Cambodia was pushed to the edge yesterday when Bangkok responded to fugitive ex-PM Thaksin Shinawatra's appointment as the neighbouring country's economic adviser by recalling its ambassador from Phnom Penh.

Cambodia's retaliation - the planned recall of its ambassador here, You Aye, who Deputy Cambodian Prime Minister Sok An said would not return until Bangkok sends its own envoy back - ensured bilateral ties were at their worst level in years.

If Thaksin's appointment was an unmistakable diplomatic provocation, recalling the Thai envoy was the strongest possible response yet - equivalent to a downgrade of relations between the countries.

Former foreign minister Tej Bunnag warned that the ambassadorial recalls meant a major channel of communications had been removed.

The Foreign Ministry recalled Prasas Prasasvinitchai, the ambassador to Phnom Penh, to Bangkok yesterday after Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen announced on Wednesday that Thaksin had been royally appointed as economic adviser and would not be extradited to Thailand.

These new developments add more problems to the ongoing process of boundary demarcation, and border conflicts at the area near the Preah Vihear Temple will become more difficult to resolve.

Now it is up to Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to calmly speak to Prime Minister Hun Sen when they meet in Tokyo today and tomorrow at the Japan-Mekong Summit, Tej said.

"Bilateral ties should not be damaged by a single individual," he added.

However, Chavanont Intarakomalyasut, secretary to the foreign minister, said there were no plans for Abhisit to meet Hun Sen during the Tokyo summit.

"We will not call him but if he calls us, we might talk," he said at a press conference. "So far we have nothing to say to him."

Reflecting Bangkok's "enough is enough" attitude, Chavanont said Thailand would not tolerate Hun Sen's behaviour any longer because the government had already explained Thaksin's legal status to him several times.

"Thaksin's appointment is seen as an interference in Thailand's domestic affairs and a failure to respect the Thai judicial system," he said.

Downgrading bilateral relations is always an option for Thailand when it comes to responding to Cambodia. The Kingdom had previously downgraded ties in 2003 after an arson attack at the Thai Embassy in Phnom Penh - ironically while Thaksin was prime minister. But that was a brief estrangement because Thaksin was always on good terms with Hun Sen.

However, this Democrat-ruled government is different. It is not clear how long it will take to resume normal relations, because the Thai side is going to review all bilateral agreements and cooperation projects. Thailand has a number of ongoing projects with Cambodia in many areas, including transportation and energy.

Every time relations between the two nations get sour, Thai interests in Cambodia, notably in trade and investment, always get affected. The 2003 riots and the anti-Thai sentiment caused a lot of damage to Thai businesses in the country, and investors were only able to resume their businesses a few years ago.

Thailand currently has scores of investment projects worth billions of baht, but bilateral trade in the first half of this year showed a 25-per-cent contraction from the same period last year, though trade experts believed it would recover in the second half. Border trade was also expected to show signs of recovery if relations had not been jeopardised.

Besides, the situation could become worse if a party in Cambodia stoked anti-Thai sentiment, as happened in 2003.

The only way to maintain bilateral interests would be to mend relations as soon as possible. However, with Thaksin and Hun Sen now the best of friends, observers say things can go either way - better or worse.

-- The Nation 2009/11/06

[animatic]

More like

'Thick Face Off.'

I have seen families with 3 raving alcoholics that have better relations.

Blood is thicker than Lao Kao, but tell that to these guys.

Maybe Thaksin thinks if he can't get a revolution going in normal times,

he can get one going with a war on, he can try and blame the Dems for?

In any case this is a poke in the eye with a sharp stick,

with hopes to get a retaliatory poke and escalate it.

Hun Sen maybe thinks he can gain some territory, or at least some of Thaksin's cash?

He is just playing out some buttered string and seeing what comes up for a lick.

If this is how Thaksin presently thinks vis a vis Thailand's people,

he is the LAST guy we should want running the country.

Treason is not beyond the bounds of charges at this point.

Aiding and abetting a country with an active border dispute with your nation.

This ain't like a Canadian going to work in Washington as an adviser.

More like Argentina and Venezuela....

Hi So Lena at least cares about the people.

She gets my hypothetical vote of Thick n Square Face.

Edited November 6, 2009 by animatic

[Scott]

It's sad that Thailand won't take the high road. They can request extradition and wait for a refusal. The refusal would have a reason and based on that reason they can start looking at their agreements and how they are being enforced.

This is a knee-jerk reaction and basically shows that Thaksin is still very powerful and this gov't is weak.

Thaksin is a a good businessman and it will probably be good for both countries. Cambodia has the resources and Thailand has the proximity and ability to invest.

Morally and diplomatically it may not be a good move, but economically it probably will be.

[animatic]

Thaksin is an OK business man, if he doesn't get preferential contracts.

He missed the economic down turn totally by his own admission.

I am on an island, I didn't miss it coming, what's his excuse...?

Using father in laws, and a certain Coup Leading General, he got his big contracts,

and made his pile, and thinks he can keep up that way forever.

Doing such for Hun Sen might be a lot more problematic.

After Madam Aye's non-too-diplomatic letter to The Nation paper,

her recall and a time out in relations wasn't a high road low road decision.

She went of the plot diplomatically, and this is part n parcel of the whole game.

Edited November 6, 2009 by animatic

[Meridian007]

Why request extradition? Cambodia has already said that it would be refused. This isn't a knee-jerk reaction by Thailand, it's a diplomatic response to an increasing level of taunts from Cambodia.

To do nothing would show the Thai government to be weak. This is finally a response to the series of insults from what was in essence Hun Sen's declaration against the current Thai government. Whether he was bought or not, Hun Sen began this situation, and I'm sure welcomes the escalation of tension.

As was said, Thaksin is a mediocre businessman at best when removed from his Thai bubble of cronyism. Imagine how he would have reacted if something similar had happened while he was in power! He would have had Cambodians slaughtered wholesale (probably under the guise of a "war on drugs") throughout Thailand for the insult!

Who I really pity in all of this are the poor farmers who will now have to be herded together, riled up with nationalist bs, and set loose on Thailand to fight for this one man's greed. This will only take them further from their laudable goals of equality and poverty reduction.

[Yoshitaka]

Mark have no guts to speak to Hun Sen face to face.

They just met and dine together only a week or two ago.

The two never spoke (or harly spoke).

All that the Thai government PR said was that everything was already cleared, it was a small misunderstanding.

Question is: Why is Mark afraid to speak to Hun Sen, or will that make Mark "Loss Face".

Question: Will Mark speak to Hun Sen in Japan (this week), or will that make Mark "Loss Face" too?

[bkkjames]

Mark have no guts to speak to Hun Sen face to face.

They just met and dine together only a week or two ago.

The two never spoke (or harly spoke).

All that the Thai government PR said was that everything was already cleared, it was a small misunderstanding.

Question is: Why is Mark afraid to speak to Hun Sen, or will that make Mark "Loss Face".

Question: Will Mark speak to Hun Sen in Japan (this week), or will that make Mark "Loss Face" too?

Not sure what you are on about mate.

I think this is a smart move by the Government by putting pressure on Cambodia via diplomatic and economic means until the cookie crumbles. A side benefit for the Government is that it has the potential to stoke up nationalistic feelings that will also blur the coloured shirt divide. Let's wait and see what happens next.

[steveromagnino]

It's sad that Thailand won't take the high road. They can request extradition and wait for a refusal. The refusal would have a reason and based on that reason they can start looking at their agreements and how they are being enforced.

This is a knee-jerk reaction and basically shows that Thaksin is still very powerful and this gov't is weak.

Thaksin is a a good businessman and it will probably be good for both countries. Cambodia has the resources and Thailand has the proximity and ability to invest.

Morally and diplomatically it may not be a good move, but economically it probably will be.

This is a personal guess of what was planned and hoped for but IMHO if giving up Thai maritime waters to a foreign country while in power then securing the exploration and revenue share contracts personally or via companies in which a person owns large shares is what comprises 'a good business person' I guess my years studying finance, marketing and law were wasted :-)

Thailand IS taking the high road against a thug of very few morals. It is interesting to note that having basically caused the Asian Crisis through inept management, basically the first thing Chavalit did once back in power is to reinforce how good his relationships are with the thuggish Thai neighbours Thailand enjoys.

If anything this shows that this govt will not back down, the question is whether Hun Sen will arrange some nice riots etc as well this time around; last time several pro Thaksin businesses suffered; this time around those same businesses are at best neutral and wondering to see what will happen.

If I was 'Mark' I would not waste my time talking to thugs; the diplomacy part has been done; now either Hun Sen respects ASEAN and the political process of his neighbour or he can be the same twit we watched the last 10 years make an idiot of himself again.

Anything is for sale in Cambodia. So it fits pretty well with Thaksin and his other good friend apparently camped out there, Wattana Asavahame.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/apr/26/cambodia

The entire casino town at Poipet owner list reads like a whos who of TRT; at least some part of TRT didn't want to legalise casinos in THailand because they had their monopoly just over the border. With connections like this, no wonder Hun Sen loves Thaksin - birds of a feather and all that.

Edited November 6, 2009 by steveromagnino

[RickBradford]

Aiding and abetting a country with an active border dispute with your nation. This ain't like a Canadian going to work in Washington as an adviser. More like Argentina and Venezuela....

Wow, Argentina and Venezuela must have worked seriously hard to create that border dispute, given that they are 2000 kilometers away from one another....

[Meridian007]

Anything is for sale in Cambodia. So it fits pretty well with Thaksin and his other good friend apparently camped out there, Wattana Asavahame.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/apr/26/cambodia

Good article! If I were Mark, I would surreptitiously bring up the human rights abuses mentioned in that article with the new ASEAN council on human rights and security. Most of it makes Thailand's abuses seem minimal in comparison. This would remove ASEAN's human rights focus away from Thailand, and put some pressure on Cambodia in a way that "Thaksinomics" will not enjoy.

[phupaman]

Hi All.

I wonder where we go from here, I think we all know that Hun Sen And Thaksin are two of a kind just plain greedy for power and wealth,and care not for anyone with a different view,It seems nothing is to get in the way of their quest.

Now what of Jataporn and the Red army withinThailand?, They know that Hun Sen is a Dictator who do not want to understand democracy and it is now Clear that Thaksin wants the same, Do they carry on taking orders from Thaksin in his quest to rule Thailand with an iron fist, aided and abetted by the R T Police and the Red Army, I would suggest the Thai people wearing Red should look to where their loyalty is,The King and Country or Thaksin and the Red Shirt leaders, That is their choice.

phupaman

[mccw]

"More like Argentina and Venezuela....

more like Equador and Colombia

troops would be moving up to the borders

I'm sure Cambodia needs Thailand more than the other way around. Should close the border, cambodia's exports be choked and tourism revenue perhapse halfed, after a couple weeks they'll feel the pinch and have to cave in and ask Mr T to slink off somewhere else maintaining some degree of face and the 2 sides can make up and get on with business.

[Meridian007]

Hi All.

I wonder where we go from here, I think we all know that Hun Sen And Thaksin are two of a kind just plain greedy for power and wealth,and care not for anyone with a different view,It seems nothing is to get in the way of their quest.

Now what of Jataporn and the Red army withinThailand?, They know that Hun Sen is a Dictator who do not want to understand democracy and it is now Clear that Thaksin wants the same, Do they carry on taking orders from Thaksin in his quest to rule Thailand with an iron fist, aided and abetted by the R T Police and the Red Army, I would suggest the Thai people wearing Red should look to where their loyalty is,The King and Country or Thaksin and the Red Shirt leaders, That is their choice.

phupaman

Oh, but don't you know that Hun Sen, Thaksin, and Jatuporn love democracy, and are willing to fight for it till their dying breath? At least this is what they would have you believe when they are speaking out of that side of their mouths. I can't wait to see what tripe Jatuporn will cook up to turn this into "Thaksin and Hun Sen fighting valiantly for the democratic rights of the people against the evil authoritarian rule of Abhisit". I don't think we'll have to wait very long to see this...

[RickBradford]

Can we hope that Thaksin allying himself with an individual who dislikes and provokes Thailand as much as Hun Sen does, might make some of Thaksin's Red supporters take a second look at their adoration of the man?

After all, Thai nationalism is a pretty strong force in its own right. What if Hun Sen were to ask Thaksin's advice on how best to win the Pra Viharn temple and land dispute?

I predict that Thaksin will realise he's made a bad move and will have to distance himself from this deal in the not-so-distant future.

[h90]

Thaksin is an OK business man, if he doesn't get preferential contracts.

He missed the economic down turn totally by his own admission.

I am on an island, I didn't miss it coming, what's his excuse...?

Using father in laws, and a certain Coup Leading General, he got his big contracts,

and made his pile, and thinks he can keep up that way forever.

Doing such for Hun Sen might be a lot more problematic.

After Madam Aye's non-too-diplomatic letter to The Nation paper,

her recall and a time out in relations wasn't a high road low road decision.

She went of the plot diplomatically, and this is part n parcel of the whole game.

That Temple dispute is just the show for the public. The real thing are the sea borders where the found oil and gas. Surprisingly (or unsurprisingly) this dispute is not much in the news, but it is big money.

[Deez]

Thaksin is an OK business man, if he doesn't get preferential contracts.

He missed the economic down turn totally by his own admission.

I am on an island, I didn't miss it coming, what's his excuse...?

Using father in laws, and a certain Coup Leading General, he got his big contracts,

and made his pile, and thinks he can keep up that way forever.

Doing such for Hun Sen might be a lot more problematic.

After Madam Aye's non-too-diplomatic letter to The Nation paper,

her recall and a time out in relations wasn't a high road low road decision.

She went of the plot diplomatically, and this is part n parcel of the whole game.

99.9% of the world did not see the severity of the economic downturn coming. Including most of the worlds top economists and investors. The ones who did, see it coming all the time. (permanant bears)

You saw it coming? Of course Im sure you got extremely rich by seeing this coming? Maybe Cambodia should appoint you as an advisor as by self proclamation you are a better for the job.

[clausewitz]

I think it's lucky thiland Abhist chose the great Kasit as his foreign minister:

http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/fo...read.php?t=3711

Kasit Piromya, Thai Foreign Minister, is a long- time foreign experienced high raking official of Thailand working in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs since 1968 to 2005 respectively as Thai Ambassador to some countries in European Union, USA, Moscow, Tokyo, Jakarta.

He is also one of the core supporter and leader of the People Alliance for Democracy (PAD) which led demonstration again and again for years to oust the elected- government under Thaksin Sinawatra.

Recently, during the last campaign held by PAD which was called the "Nakasaki or Hiroshima War" in order to topple the pro-Thaksin government which led to siege Thai two main airports- Donmoung and Suvannaphumi, Kasit played as one of the PAD core leaders. He actively participated in the demonstration and gave the speeches to the demonstrators.

His speeches were not only about attacking Thaksin and Thaksinists, but also about attacking Cambodian intregrity, regarding to our Preah Vihear Temple. Most importantly, his speech attacking against Hun Sen, which has been criticized and concerned by some real Thai intellectuals and politicians as well as some ordinary Thai who love respect, morality and dignity, can jeopardize his role for the foreign mission or relation.

" Kasit announced loudly that he will use Hun Sen's blood to wash his feet" during his speech given at the Suvannaphumi airport.

I think it is reliable. Personally, Kasit is one of the ultra-nationalists (PAD), the extremist group which has instigated the Preah Vihear invasion since July 2008. Such a Nazi word is not new to the Thais because it is clearly written and taught in Thai history, describing how Thais treated Cambodians especially during the 16th century by King Naresaun who claimed to use King Setha´s blood to wash his feet, too, at school in order to motivate the nationalist sentiment among Thais to feel superior to Cambodia and not to be afraid of confronting the Cambodians at any cost. And it is believed that Kasit speech aimed at reminding of this history for the same political purpose. Kasit´s speech is not published publicly in media or translated; instead he is criticized and warned for such an uneducated speech.

As I said with Kasit- appointed by Abhisit - as foreign minister Thailand can relax and be assured that everything will be fine:

http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/2009/01/...-relations.html

P: The thing is that is that it was not simply him voicing his objection which placed him in a bad light with Cambodia. It is that he went on Thai TV and personally insulted Hun Sen. Video is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UCi-mgmIDs...feature=related. He says Hun Sen is บ้า (crazy) บ้าๆบอๆ (dotty, mentally unbalanced) and a กุ๊ย (tramp, vagrant). He also says that Hun Sen doesn't want good relations with Thailand and speculates that he is the ขี้ข้า (slave) of Thaksin or he has an evil mind (จิตใจชั่วร้าย). It should be noted he made these statements when he was the shadow Deputy PM.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

What a clown.. Really, really sad for Thailand to have this bunch shoehorned into government.

[phupaman]

Hi All.

Replying to post 17, It seems that the PM was very astute in appointing Kasit as FM, It seems to me that Kasit is well informed about Hun Sen, every thing he claimed and said about him looks to be true,

It seems like Thaksin and Hun Sen are indeed well suited bedfellows, I suggest you read the Gaurdian article on Cambodia and Hun Sen it seems he has'nt forgotten his training serving under Pol Pot.

God Help The Cambodian People.

phupaman

[Insight]

A newspaper often quoted here until recently has a breaking news article announcing soaring support for the government, according to a recent a ABAC poll.

IMHO this will be Thaksin's most disastrous move since the selling of Shincorp to Tamasak. Of course, time will tell.

[LawnGnome]

Thaksin badly underestimated the reaction to his Cambodian appointment. He thought that the NE people would rally around him, and that he would gain more PR points - he was wrong. ABAC's new poll just showed that Abhisit's popularity has shot up to 70%. Thaksin is now planning an open letter to explain himself, which is too little to late. He forgot that Thai people do not like (hate is a better word) Hun Sen, and Cambodia, for many reasons (most of them irrational, i will admit), and this card he has played might just have doomed any small hope he had of making a "Comeback".

A huge win for Abhisit and the government. He'll be PM for quite a while longer now. Good job T. In your own, perverted way, you have helped ensure stability of the Thai government, at your own expense. I for one, couldn't be happier.

Edited November 6, 2009 by LawnGnome

[webfact]

THAI-CAMBODIA SOUR RELATION

Bangkok cancels sea overlapping agreement with Phnom Penh

Thailand steps up its protest against Cambodia on Friday by deciding to cancel a bilateral agreement on the overlapping continental shelf area with Cambodia.

The decision came one day after Thailand downgraded its bilateral relations with Cambodia to protest Cambodia's appointment of ex-Thai PM Thaksin Shinawatra as its economic adviser.

Abhisit government recalled its ambassador to Cambodia on Thursday and suggest female envoys and the families to return home.

Thai Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya said in a phone-in interview Friday that Thailand decided to revoke Thai-Cambodia memorandum of understanding on the overlapping continental shelf area signed in June 2001 under premiership of then PM Thaksin.

Then Foreign Minister Surakiart Sathirathai signed the MOU with his Cambodian counterpart Hor Nam Hong.

In the MOU, both countries agree to jointly survey and develop in the overlapping zones in the Gulf of Thailand.

-- The Nation 2009/11/06

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[LawnGnome]

Bangkok just slaps Hun Sen where it will hurt most - in his wallet. Lets see how much longer Thaksin hangs on! This is going to spiral into a shitstorm of epic propotions and Thaksin is in the middle. He aint gonna come out of this one smelling like a rose...

[Rinrada]

Cambodia -1

Thailand -0

[LawnGnome]

Cambodia -1

Thailand -0

I don't think you know the economic score, lol. And certainly not the political score. Must be the Thaksin population index.

[jayboy]

Cambodia -1

Thailand -0

I don't think you know the economic score, lol. And certainly not the political score. Must be the Thaksin population index.

No Rinrada is right.I don't think he's implying that in this case Cambodia, Hun Sen (a nasty piece of work) or Thaksin have demonstrated any great wisdom.Clearly this was a rather foolish and provocative appointment.I think he's making the point that a much more sophisticated leader of a much larger and richer country has reacted like a petulant child.In terms of political face therefore the score is as Rinrada suggests - but nobody believes Thailand is other than Premier League and Cambodia other than struggling amateurs.

[webfact]

Abhisit's popularity soars three times for downgrading ties with Cambodia

The popularity rating of Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has tripled after his decisive action to downgrade the diplomatic ties with Cambodia, Abac Poll said in a survey released on Friday.

In comparison to 23.3 per cent in the survey in September, Abhisit's popularity leaped to 68.6 per cent.

The prime minister was most popular in the South (88.2 per cent), followed by the Central Region (68.9 per cent), Bangkok (68.8 per cent) and the North (64.6 per cent).

-- The Nation 2009/11/06

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[Thailand]

Thaksin continues to bait the Thai government and every time they jump at it with little thought to the consequences. Simply ignoring the "appointment" would have been a slap in the face- but no- TIT

[LawnGnome]

Yes yes yes, Abhisit is a petulant child - who just increased his popularity with VOTERS by 200 percent in less than 1 day. I can see what that is cause for concern in some circles.

[RickBradford]

Those poll results look weird.

Support for Abhisit up from 23.3% to 68.6% in two months? Don't Knows down from 65.2% to 10.3%. Anti-Abhisit up from 11.5% to 21.1%