churchill Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Hong Kong, China — This is a story about a recent incident of police violence in Thailand. For reasons that will become obvious, the persons and places involved cannot be identified. It begins with a young man, known here as Prasert. He hangs out with a local gang, has had some run-ins with the law, and has been up on a minor drug charge. Not long ago, Prasert and his friends went to a concert in the district town. Some trouble started. Prasert joined a fight, he says, to pull a buddy out. The other side started attacking him, and he ran. As he ran, a policeman called out to stop. When he did not, the officer shot at him three times, hitting him twice. The policeman strode over and started kicking Prasert as he lay wounded on the ground. Then Prasert’s friends intervened. The officer, whose breath smelt of alcohol, denied shooting him. Eyewitnesses gathered, insisting that he had, and the policeman backed off. The young man’s friends chased after the policeman and caught up with him as he reached a group of his colleagues and security volunteers. They asked the officers for help to call an ambulance. Instead, the police accused one of the victim’s friends of being the shooter, and began assaulting him too. Meanwhile, someone called the local hospital and Prasert was sent for treatment. His relatives found him there, in a serious condition but alive. The next day the family went to the station, but the police told them to come back the day after because the investigating officer was not present. When they came again to give evidence, they saw the alleged shooter hanging around in the background. A lawyer who learned about the case visited the family and listened to the story, then outlined what could be done. She was frank, explaining that police in these types of cases almost never face punishment. She would do as much as she could, but also could not guarantee Prasert’s safety, or that of other family members. Both the lawyer and family knew that it was only a matter of time before the police made contact to negotiate a deal. Sure enough, after a week they received a phone call from a senior officer at the station, asking how he could help. The family requested over US$10,000 to pay for the medical expenses and put the matter to rest. He said that he would tell his boss and get back to them. The police bargained down to half of what the family asked. A senior officer came to their house and paid in cash. The family moved Prasert to another part of the country, where it will take him about a year to fully recover from his injuries. Prasert’s story stops here, but is indicative of the type of routine police violence against ordinary folks that goes on daily all over Thailand, yet receives little attention from the media or human rights groups. How come we don’t hear more about cases like this? There are a number of reasons, including the following. First, Prasert was the wrong type of victim. He falls into a category of citizens for whom the ordinary rules do not apply, and for whom there is no public sympathy when things go bad. His appearance and background mean that he is presumed guilty of something, for which he deserves whatever he gets. Second, there are no means for redress. For all the talk in Thailand about commissions, investigations and trainings, there are no bodies that can effectively investigate, prosecute and punish police officers. To whom can a family like this turn? There are only the police themselves. Even a conscientious lawyer can do no more than suggest they think about taking the money. Third, the police are experienced at settling cases quickly, quietly and systematically. The notion of command responsibility in Thailand is not that a senior officer investigates and disciplines his subordinates. It is that he covers up their crimes, represents them in negotiations and defends them against charges of wrongdoing. The system moves fast to protect its own. Fourth, there is no effective victim and witness protection. A law and agency set up a few years ago for this purpose have proven useless. The family in this case asked about applying for protection. Officers told them that if they were assigned security it would be from police of the same station as the assailant. Unsurprisingly, they did not bother. In Thailand, to cover up police violence does not require some special initiative, effort or intelligence. On the contrary, things are arranged institutionally and socially so that the covering up, like the violence itself, is routine. Even families like Prasert’s, who had some resources and advice, quickly realize that not only is there no point in attempting to bring a story into the public domain, but that the risks far outweigh the possible benefits. For this reason, no more can be written of this case. But today, tomorrow and the next week there will be more victims like Prasert. Whether or not any of their stories surface depends largely on the extent to which people in Thailand are ready to challenge the institutional and social arrangements that keep police violence under cover, that keep victims frightened and unwilling to speak up, and that keep those parts of the system that should be acting to prevent abuse inert and ineffectual. -- (Awzar Thi is the pen name of a member of the Asian Human Rights Commission with over 15 years of experience as an advocate of human rights and the rule of law in Thailand and Burma. His Rule of Lords blog can be read at http://ratchasima.net) http://www.upiasia.com/Human_Rights/2009/1..._violence/9547/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GungaDin Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Thanks for the reminder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkyfarang Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 thats what you get for not keeping a clean sheet earlier and doing ya ba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madjbs Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 So he got over $5000 from the police, sounds ok to me. If he had behaved himself he wouldn't have found himself in the kind of situation where bad things can quite easily happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAWP Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 On one hand, the guy is most likely a lowlife pond-scum. But on the other hand, when an institution as the police is so riddled with corruption and systematic abuse of the intent it is only a matter of time before a really completely innocent person stumbles upon a police-officer with the wrong intent and find that being innocent doesn't help against the police here. It might give a slightly higher settlement payment, but never justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackspratt Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Ah dear! - the predictable TV defenders of institutionalized Thai police corruption. Puts you on about the same level, I reckon. stinky, you would have been fun to have around on TV when the police were shooting at random under Thaksin's "War on Drugs". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boater Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 The officer, whose breath smelt of alcohol, denied shooting him. this is an all to often case..... at least they could start by not allowing officers to a) Drink on duty. If they are off duty, to at least hand there weapons in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverdie Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 (edited) Ah dear! - the predictable TV defenders of institutionalized Thai police corruption.Puts you on about the same level, I reckon. stinky, you would have been fun to have around on TV when the police were shooting at random under Thaksin's "War on Drugs". I can understand your call on this occassion Jack, but irregardless of what the Police may or may not have done, they will always be guilty in your eyes. Whats your story Jack, why do you hate the cops so much....is there something you'd like to share with us? Edited November 12, 2009 by neverdie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palusa Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 thats what you get for not keeping a clean sheet earlier and doing ya ba Wow Stinky that was really constructive, cant wait for post number 3 We need people like you on TV, honest, true, yeh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlocke Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 A lot of sanctimonious opining here. THey will be laughing on the other sides of their faces if they ever come into contact with the law themselves - you don't have to be a "villain" for police to try and construct a cover-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portlandstone Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 ...it is only a matter of time before a really completely innocent person stumbles upon a police-officer with the wrong intent and find that being innocent doesn't help against the police here... I think I can agree. About two weeks back I was outside MBK when a large police escort was coming by, the cops cleared everyone off the skydeck bridge and I happily moved further down the deck. Just before the escort was coming by I went up front just to get a look, not crossing the "imaginary line." I saw a cop wind his fist back and nearly blast a Thai guy in the face because apparently the guy didn't "listen" to the cop, I thought it was strange. Anyhow as I was looking I started to lean over a little more to get a look over the railing when I saw that same cop staring super hard at me with a "step forward one more inch and I'll belt you one" really hard look on his face, all tensed up. I really felt I could have been hit by the guy with no ability to defend myself. Looked like he would have happily attacked me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackspratt Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Ah dear! - the predictable TV defenders of institutionalized Thai police corruption.Puts you on about the same level, I reckon. stinky, you would have been fun to have around on TV when the police were shooting at random under Thaksin's "War on Drugs". I can understand your call on this occassion Jack, but irregardless of what the Police may or may not have done, they will always be guilty in your eyes. Whats your story Jack, why do you hate the cops so much....is there something you'd like to share with us? I have no problems with police, per se - as long as they are doing the jobs they are paid to do, and upholding the laws they are entrusted to uphold. I don't believe the police are above the laws of their country, and neither do they have a license to disregard those laws if they see fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
virtualtraveller Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 The police are the great weak link of Thailand I'm afraid. Forget the ifs and buts about low pay etc, no matter how much you pay they will always remain the ultimate mafia in this country, how many times this year have they failed our trust spectacularly; in Pattaya, the border patrol unit involved in extortion, the stolen vehicles they were being used by police, has anyone been brought to justice for this? Policemen around the world undertake a tough job to keep things in order, often without great pay, but they do get privileges. One thing that really is unacceptable here is that policemen are generally above the law, don't always know the law, and routinely break it, they're pretty poor at their job. They need to be made accountable and there really needs to be a watchdog for the police. The fact that they have resisted any attempts to reform themselves is one of the key problems contributing to the current political crisis, since law enforcement is at the heart of the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barky Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 (edited) The police are the great weak link of Thailand I'm afraid. Forget the ifs and buts about low pay etc, no matter how much you pay they will always remain the ultimate mafia in this country, how many times this year have they failed our trust spectacularly; in Pattaya, the border patrol unit involved in extortion, the stolen vehicles they were being used by police, has anyone been brought to justice for this?Policemen around the world undertake a tough job to keep things in order, often without great pay, but they do get privileges. One thing that really is unacceptable here is that policemen are generally above the law, don't always know the law, and routinely break it, they're pretty poor at their job. They need to be made accountable and there really needs to be a watchdog for the police. The fact that they have resisted any attempts to reform themselves is one of the key problems contributing to the current political crisis, since law enforcement is at the heart of the matter. Why in the world would they want to reform? Reform what? Everything is working perfectly well thank you very much? It will never change (at least not in our lifetimes). I would go so far as to say that every Thai citizen (non-cop, non-politician) would agree that the whole system is corrupt to the core from top to bottom and back again. However, most would also see nothing wrong with it, but some would think it disgusting, but feel helpless at stopping it. So, what does that tell you about the social ethics? Edited November 13, 2009 by barky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hgvneil Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Unfortunatly you have people who will defend police,goverment violence no matter how severe it is.In their eyes the the authorities can do no wrong.They may live squeaky clean lives and think they will never come across the wrong side of the law.So any one who does,well its the ,they deserve it,attitude. Like dont smoke a joint if you dont want your hands cut off,type of thing. But, these people will keep this mindset,UNTIL, maybe just one day they accidently in their squeaky clean lives come across the real side of police oppression and become the innocent party in a corrupt violent situation,and see how quick their tune changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khruumaiyai Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 I lived in a back-of-beyond Tambon in Mae Chaem for 2 years, and I was several times glad that there were no police around for miles. It meant the local village headman/Kamnan was effectively the law - and he was a really well respected and wise chap. We had a couple of occasions where things were sorted out locally without police involvement - and everyone local thought it best that way. Only if it was absolutely essential would the police be called up from the Amphur. Quite an indictment of the standing of the police force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Ah dear! - the predictable TV defenders of institutionalized Thai police corruption.Puts you on about the same level, I reckon. stinky, you would have been fun to have around on TV when the police were shooting at random under Thaksin's "War on Drugs". I can understand your call on this occassion Jack, but irregardless of what the Police may or may not have done, they will always be guilty in your eyes. Whats your story Jack, why do you hate the cops so much....is there something you'd like to share with us? I don't know why Jack hates the cops, but how can anyone support an institution that is totally corrupt, uses power only for themselves, denies the people that they are supposed to serve justice, and is completely useless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loaded Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 The policeman's behaviour reminds me of another Thai policeman's behaviour in Pai. There were apologists for that drunk policeman as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linglop Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 The policeman's behaviour reminds me of another Thai policeman's behaviour in Pai. There were apologists for that drunk policeman as well. Well said "Loaded" and let's not forget Kanchanaburi too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tominbkk Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 In my many years in Thailand I don't think I've ever met or dealt with a police officer I would trust with anything. But, just smile, cooperate, and get yourself away from them as soon as possible, and you'll be alright. If you fight them, guys, they are going to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somrak Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 Neverd..: why do you hate the cops so much.... You realy can't understad this kind of feelings? ,..., but how can anyone support an institution that is totally corrupt, uses power only for themselves, denies the people that they are supposed to serve justice, and is completely useless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzaa09 Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 So he got over $5000 from the police, sounds ok to me. If he had behaved himself he wouldn't have found himself in the kind of situation where bad things can quite easily happen. Don't want the loss of face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t.s Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 Ah dear! - the predictable TV defenders of institutionalized Thai police corruption.Puts you on about the same level, I reckon. stinky, you would have been fun to have around on TV when the police were shooting at random under Thaksin's "War on Drugs". I can understand your call on this occassion Jack, but irregardless of what the Police may or may not have done, they will always be guilty in your eyes. Whats your story Jack, why do you hate the cops so much....is there something you'd like to share with us? I have no problems with police, per se - as long as they are doing the jobs they are paid to do, and upholding the laws they are entrusted to uphold. I don't believe the police are above the laws of their country, and neither do they have a license to disregard those laws if they see fit. to quote mickey rourke in that movie about Bukowski (sorry cant remember the name): "i dont hate the police, i just feel alot better when they are not around." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverdie Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 ^ no doubt you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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