Atm Withdrawal Errors . . . $150 Usd Overcharges!

[Sam Drucker]

I've made ATM withdrawals here in Thailand from my US Bank account. I recently had my daily limit increased so I could withdraw the maximum 20,000 baht I've heard most Thai ATMs have.

I made a few withdrawals in the last month, and 20,000 baht was debiting my US Bank account approximately $610.00, up through November 12th. Suddenly, the last two withdrawals I've made on November 18th and November 20th (one from Krungthai ATM and another from a Kasikorn ATM) have debited my US account approximately $760.00!

I'm not sure where the problem is, but it would seem to be not the individual Thai banks, and maybe with my bank in America (a small community bank with lower fees than the big guys.) Something somewhere has definitely changed for sure! It was working okay before.

One thought I have is that maybe the 150 baht ATM fee here in Thailand is somehow being mis-interpreted now as 150 USD?

I've notified my bank with a detailed email, images of my ATM slips, etc.

Watch your home bank accounts for correct debiting when withdrawing money from a Thai ATM!

I'll add more to this thread when I get some answers from my US bank.

Edited November 20, 2009 by Sam Drucker

[Sam Drucker]

My bank responded today with an email. I was hoping the answer would be cut-and-dried, but they have more questions than answers so far, and I'm wondering how hard it will be to get answers on the Thailand side now, especially since it would seem to be a network problem (as two or more different Thai banks' ATMs are involved.)

My bank's response (in part:)

We are receiving the correct amount from the ATM (Star) network. For instance, on 11/17 we received a requested amount of 20,000 and the USD amount was $607.11 plus $4.52 surcharge. But, $760.12 USD came out of your account. We do not take any other fee out of your account (other than the $1/foreign transaction at the end of the month). The only thing we could come up with is that either the rate of exchange has changed within those few days, or the bank you are requesting the funds from is charging another fee.

To be continued . . .

[LaoPo]

My bank responded today with an email. I was hoping the answer would be cut-and-dried, but they have more questions than answers so far, and I'm wondering how hard it will be to get answers on the Thailand side now, especially since it would seem to be a network problem (as two or more different Thai banks' ATMs are involved.)

My bank's response (in part:)

We are receiving the correct amount from the ATM (Star) network. For instance, on 11/17 we received a requested amount of 20,000 and the USD amount was $607.11 plus $4.52 surcharge. But, $760.12 USD came out of your account. We do not take any other fee out of your account (other than the $1/foreign transaction at the end of the month). The only thing we could come up with is that either the rate of exchange has changed within those few days, or the bank you are requesting the funds from is charging another fee.

To be continued . . .

I think the (Thai) bank charged you for roughly Baht 25,000 instead 20,000; how that would be possible...? I don't know.

LaoPo

[chanwit]

I avoid Krungthai ATM machines.

I recently tried to withdraw 20,000 TB from one of the Krungthai ATM machines in Bang Yai and the money did not disburse.

I had to go to my bank and report the time and location of the machine along with the printed receipt.

It took a week to get my money back in to my bank account. During that time I noticed the same Krungthai ATM machine was Out-of-Service.

Also, at least on the Krungthai ATM machine I was using, the ink on my receipt began to vanish within a few days.

I stick with the Siam and Bangkok bank ATMs. Never had a problem with their machines.

[hansnl]

I avoid Krungthai ATM machines.

I recently tried to withdraw 20,000 TB from one of the Krungthai ATM machines in Bang Yai and the money did not disburse.

I had to go to my bank and report the time and location of the machine along with the printed receipt.

It took a week to get my money back in to my bank account. During that time I noticed the same Krungthai ATM machine was Out-of-Service.

Also, at least on the Krungthai ATM machine I was using, the ink on my receipt began to vanish within a few days.

I stick with the Siam and Bangkok bank ATMs. Never had a problem with their machines.

Having a problem with an ATM can happen.

It are just machines, operated by a computer.

So many things can go wrong if you combine mechanicals and electronics.

Murphy's law!

However, KTB machines look different on the outside from SCB and BKB machines.

But as long as they are real ATM's and not the ATM/Paying-in machines, good chance the innards are the same.

The printers in the ATM's can be different, some use dotprinters and some use heat reaction printers.

The slips of the first can be good or bad quality when delivered, but tend to remain the same.

The heat reaction paper react to heat, and lose the clarity very fast if kept in your pocket or purse.

Keep your slips at home asap in a cool place for as long as needed.

The fact that the KTB-ATM was out of service after your troubles, means that they are working on the problem.

Surely that would be a good sign?

I mostly use KTB, for withdrawels from my KTB-account and withdrawels from my account in the Netherlands.\

In nearly 4 years never had any trouble, bar once when my card was not accepted by the machine.

Edited November 21, 2009 by hansnl

[andybangkok]

For those who lives in the Phra Khanong area: AEON ATM free withdrawal on a Canadian debit card.

JUSCO shopping center on Sukhumvit 71 near soi 12. I went this morning.

At my knowledge this is the only Aeon Atm from On-Nut to Siam Center on Sukhumvit.

[mussen]

I made a withdrawl on the same day as you, and had the same problem, except it was for AUD$150.00, will post more details after my bank responds.

[Sam Drucker]

My bank 'fessed up that the problem was due to some kind of error in their "banking network". I don't have more details yet, but at least it sounds like most other people should be okay with these types of transactions.

[mussen]

Keep us posted with any more details you have Sam

[abourne]

I am having the same exact problem.

I used a Bangkok Bank ATM machine in MBK Center.

Summary:

Withdraw 25,000 Baht

ATM Fee: 150 Baht

Total Amount: 25,150 Baht

My credit union in the United States bank statement is showing $911.99 instead of $762, about a $150 difference.

I've been communicating with my credit union and I don't yet have answers.

I am trying to find out if this is on the Thailand side or the network of my bank's side.

My bank 'fessed up that the problem was due to some kind of error in their "banking network". I don't have more details yet, but at least it sounds like most other people should be okay with these types of transactions.

Sam Drucker,

Please elaborate on this. My bank is investigating and at the moment suggest I bring this to the attention of the ATM owner in Bangkok.

[mussen]

I think this is a network problem as Sam said. You used a Bangkok Bank ATM, sam used 2 different ones, and I had the same problem from a UOB ATM (I was charged AUD$150 as I bank in Australia).

My bank is also still investigating.

[abourne]

sam used 2 different ones

Mussen,

Where do you see that Sam used two different banks and that this has occurred twice for him?

I am attempting to get in touch with Sam, sent him a private message, in an attempt to obtain more information for my bank, and perhaps my bank get some more information on this network issue.

[mussen]

Hi abourne, he said that in his original post, cheers

"the last two withdrawals I've made on November 18th and November 20th (one from Krungthai ATM and another from a Kasikorn ATM) have debited my US account approximately $760.00"

[Sam Drucker]

sam used 2 different ones

Mussen,

Where do you see that Sam used two different banks and that this has occurred twice for him?

I am attempting to get in touch with Sam, sent him a private message, in an attempt to obtain more information for my bank, and perhaps my bank get some more information on this network issue.

Actually, now it is three different transactions from three different Thai ATM banking chains. Krungthai, Kasikorn, and Siam Commercial.

The problem seems to be acknowleged and identified by my bank in America:

"We did find out that it is a FiServ (our banking network) problem."

However, if the guy in Australia is part of this same problem, who knows which network it really is? My guess is that there are probably at least three networks involved in my transactions with my bank.

The problem, though acknowleged, still remains however. My third transaction (after I received the above message from my bank) was with Siam Commercial and it happened again.

That's about all I can add to this for now.

I'll post more when I know more.

Regards,

Sam

[Beardog]

Probably BofA I Just hashed out in July (took 36 hours -Not joking) over 13 people & help from a retired fraud investigator to get them to charge back the stolen funds . Santa Rosa(Calif) had papers to prosecute for wire fraud & 8 other counts if they didn't comply. The bank president made it impossible to find(Hide the Salami) They insisted I still had to pay 210 more dollars to clear the overdrafts (that that 2 previous debts admitted over site & took the judgments off my record. The credit card portion Even though admitted fault still claimed it was my responsibility because the atm was used. I paid the $210.00 (it went up within 2 weeks. & they wrote my sister the original $200.00

was given back. It took a month & a half to get back the $210.00 after they were contacted by the state for many overdraft fraudulent reports. 5 years with them & I can say I am so glad to be rid of the dog with fleas. Citibank not only did not acknowledge my judgments after showing them 128 e- mails trying to clear this up. Not the first time these guys could screw up a wet dream. Ditch the bank when you get home.their are actually banks that know you as a name & not a dollar sign. Just about all my buddies back in the states canned them & now deal with more transparent banks. B of A wouldn't tell me via E-mail what my apr was(cause it sure didn't match my contract & I made a point of them sticking to it with the bank mgrs signature & a witness.) Even if it fluctuated why could they not tell me through E-mail. Citibank I can ask anything online & they give me an answer...not a thank you Mr......

Your a valued & important...Blah blah blah form letter On about my 70th e- mail I wrote nothing but cus words & still got a form letter. Get a new bank. Last problem I had with a bank was in 1979 & they repaired it after I produced the documents why they bounced 12 checks for 79 cents overdrawn. Only should have been 1 overdraft. Bank of Hawaii woul float you up to $100 on a regular acct. if you had or do not have overdraft protection. B of a gets the limp dik award!

[mussen]

Probably BofA ...

Don't think so, like Sam said it's a network problem, as it has affected US as well as Australian customers. My bank (Westpac, Australia) have admitted that other people who used the ATM that I used were also charged AUD$150.00 for the transaction. Sounds to me like the 150 baht fee that gets charged is somehow being charged in the foreign currency (USD, AUD etc) in addition to the local currency (THB) fee.

[harry8292]

I never use the ATM on holiday any way. Its riddled with hidden charges

[mussen]

I never use the ATM on holiday any way. Its riddled with hidden charges

Was Friday 20th November a holiday?

[harry8292]

I never use the ATM on holiday any way. Its riddled with hidden charges

Was Friday 20th November a holiday?

I was assuming the people here were using atms on their vacation in Thailand.

[mussen]

ok, sorry I misunderstood your post

[Sam Drucker]

Problem fixed? Maybe? I've not tested it completely yet.

I received this message from my bank today:

Fiserv has contacted us and told us they have fixed the problem with the programming. There should not be that $150 charge on your account any longer.

Fiserv operates in 66 countries around the world. They offer banking network and transaction services to subscriber banks. Perhaps the Australia guy's bank is also using them?

Incidentally, I did successfully do an ATM withdrawal yesterday, although it was not an "apples to apples" comparison. It was through an Aeon ATM, and they do not charge the 150 baht fee. That transaction went through correctly.

I'm not sure if it's just coincidence, but seeing the digits "150" popping up for myself and others, it seems like one possibility for the exact nature of the error was that it was charging both the 150 baht fee banks generally charge in Thailand, AND charging 150 again in the local currency (USD in my case.) Not sure if that's what hit the Australia guy. Perhaps it's all a fiserv problem, or maybe a minor change in how they code transactions in Thailand has caused the failed results downstream?

I think for the Australia guy, I'd ask the bank if they use a company called "fiserv"?

Another point that came up while looking into this: I asked "Where is that $150 going?" The answer I got was that it was dumping back into a general account for the ATM. So when these errors occur, the bank knows it at the end of the day because their accounts don't balance.

That's what I know for now. I'd be interested to hear from anybody else who experienced this problem, and conducts another ATM transaction that involves the 150 baht fee.

Sam