Conditions At Temples In Bangkok

[phetaroi]

I like to wander around Bangkok and take photos. Obviously, we all know there are the historic temples that also have a tendency to be very open to the general public. Good examples are Wat Trimit or Wat Suthat.

Then we have another group of temples which very much have a sense of community and, despite the day of the week, at least have the wiharn open and perhaps some other buildings. You see a few monks around and a slow stream of locals coming into the temple. I visited Wat Pathum Khongkha the other day, and it was a good example. The temple courtyard was open, locals were visiting the wiharn and there were children and parents elsewhere on temple grounds. An old monk was sleeping in front of the wiharn -- obviously "on duty" -- and he woke up and saw me and welcomed me and invited me to go into the wiharn.

Then you find many temples that seem closed up. Nothing is open. No monks to be seen. Essentially deserted.

So, what goes here?

[camerata]

It was pretty much the same at temples I visited around Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai recently. A big difference between temples in the town centre and temples outside, which are usually deserted. Presumably the monks are meditating or studying rather than sitting around in the viharn waiting for visitors who never come. Usually we were able to round up someone sweeping leaves and ask about the history of the temple.

One temple in CM I went to late in the afternoon had all its doors shut except one side door. There were three pairs of military style boots on the steps outside. When I crept in there were two cops wearing dark glasses stretched out on the floor asleep so I quickly crept out again.

[phetaroi]

Over the past few days I did a little walking tour of Sampanthawong District (essentially Chinatown).

Every Chinese temple I came upon -- open with community interaction.

Of the Buddhist temples:

Wat Chai Channa Songkhram -- All wiharns closed. Ubosot closed. Pay-parking lot open. Pay-toilet open. Kaching!

Wat Chakrawat -- All wiharns closed. Ubosot closed. Alligator pits -- one virtually dry, crocodile suffering. Pay parking lot open. Kaching!

Wat Bophit Phimuk -- All wiharns closed. Ubosot closed. Pay-parking lot open. Kaching!

Wat Samphantawong -- All wiharns closed. Ubosot closed. Some of the very small shrines were open.

This on a weekend. These temples are doing virtually nothing to serve the community and enhance Buddhist thought among the people.

[camerata]

This on a weekend. These temples are doing virtually nothing to serve the community and enhance Buddhist thought among the people.

Did you check at 6am to see if the monks were going out on alms round? Providing that opportunity for the laity to make merit is one of their main "duties" as set down in the Pali Canon. Chinese temples have priests rather than monks. A monk's job is not primarily to interact with the public - other than meditation and study, it's to receive alms and to teach the Dhamma, which probably happens at set times. I went to Wat Yannawa (near Chinatown) for a season of Dhamma talks the year before last and every evening I went the temple was a hive of activity, with school kids trooping in for instruction, adults listening to Dhamma talks and people paying their respects to relics in a hall on the ground floor.

In Chiang Mai I noticed many cars parked in the grounds of some of the larger temples in town, as if they were being used for as parking lots. Perhaps the city asked them to allow it. But, frankly, I don't see much point in criticizing organized religion. It is what is is. If people don't like it they can stop supporting it. The staff of my company took matters into their own hands. Most of them get up so early they have no opportunity to give alms, so once a month they invite 3 monks from 3 different temples to to do alms round in front of our office. The monks do about 30 minutes' chanting in the lobby around 8.30 and then file past about 50 employees outside collecting alms.

[LazyYogi]

Chinese temples have priests rather than monks.

I thought it was just Japanese Temples that have priests rather than monks. As far as I know the Chinese have regular monks. Maybe it's different if it's a Taoist temple.

[phetaroi]

This on a weekend. These temples are doing virtually nothing to serve the community and enhance Buddhist thought among the people.

Did you check at 6am to see if the monks were going out on alms round? Providing that opportunity for the laity to make merit is one of their main "duties" as set down in the Pali Canon. Chinese temples have priests rather than monks. A monk's job is not primarily to interact with the public - other than meditation and study, it's to receive alms and to teach the Dhamma, which probably happens at set times. I went to Wat Yannawa (near Chinatown) for a season of Dhamma talks the year before last and every evening I went the temple was a hive of activity, with school kids trooping in for instruction, adults listening to Dhamma talks and people paying their respects to relics in a hall on the ground floor.

In Chiang Mai I noticed many cars parked in the grounds of some of the larger temples in town, as if they were being used for as parking lots. Perhaps the city asked them to allow it. But, frankly, I don't see much point in criticizing organized religion. It is what is is. If people don't like it they can stop supporting it. The staff of my company took matters into their own hands. Most of them get up so early they have no opportunity to give alms, so once a month they invite 3 monks from 3 different temples to to do alms round in front of our office. The monks do about 30 minutes' chanting in the lobby around 8.30 and then file past about 50 employees outside collecting alms.

Among my points is that most of the temples I have mentioned are undergoing or have undergone extensive and expensive renovations. Some of those renovations are, of course, paid for by rich members of the temple. But, when I do see poor, everyday people going into a temple I see them contributing money to the boxes, some of which goes for these renovations. Who are these million baht renovations for? It can't be for the everyday people when the buildings are virtually always closed.

Yes, one of the things that is admirable about Wat Yannawa is that it is open and used by the people. Again, that's really my point.

It strikes me as...well...wrong that these expensive temples are behind lock and key almost continuously. What does a wiharn cost for zero people to use? Zero baht.

If it is "right" for so many of these temples to be closed up, then I guess it must be "wrong" for so many other temples -- like Wat Yannawa, which you mention -- to be open for the people.

On this forum we have discussed from time to time the reported decline in the number of monks nationwide. Could it be because Thais are getting less used to visiting their temples? Was the temple not, at one time, the center of Thai life?

I wonder what the children of the families I saw at Wat Chakrowat learned about the temple yesterday? That is was a good place to park a car. That it had crocodiles that were suffering from a lack of water and space. That it had birds in dirty cages. They couldn't see or pay respect to a Buddha image. They couldn't learn to talk to a monk (and by the way, my understanding is that Wat Chakrowat has one of the biggest populations of monks in Bangkok). And so, why in a few years, would they be drawn to become a monk?

[camerata]

Among my points is that most of the temples I have mentioned are undergoing or have undergone extensive and expensive renovations. Some of those renovations are, of course, paid for by rich members of the temple. But, when I do see poor, everyday people going into a temple I see them contributing money to the boxes, some of which goes for these renovations. Who are these million baht renovations for? It can't be for the everyday people when the buildings are virtually always closed.

Unfortunately, the answer is in the Pali Canon. One of the highest forms of making merit for the laity is building a monastery. So the very act of donating to the building of a monastery is of great importance to Thais. It doesn't seem to matter to anyone that as the number of monks declines, the number of new monasteries and buildings keeps increasing. Some may well be closed because there aren't enough monks there.

If only people would realize that they gain far more merit by keeping the precepts and meditating, but they don't...

[camerata]

As far as I know the Chinese have regular monks. Maybe it's different if it's a Taoist temple.

I guess it depends on your definition of a regular monk. Chinese Buddhist temples in SE Asia would be mostly Pure Land. Since the idea of Pure Land is to get into heaven by the grace of Amitabha, faith is a major component of the practice and I doubt the monks/priests are true renunciants keeping 227 precepts.

[phetaroi]

Went out on another long walk yesterday in Pomprap Sattruphai District.

Again, all Chinese temples open, some very busy, but all at least had an occasional local come through for worship.

Most of Wat Thepsarin closed up, although it is apparently a great place for jogging. The wiharn (or was it the ubosot) is under major reconstruction. The temple has quite a lot of beautiful architecture.

As for Thai temples:

Wat Kanikaphon open. Trashy...but open with monks on duty, along with some friendly lay people. You see -- it can be done!

Wat Phlapphla Chai open. Again -- it can be done!