What If ?

[Powerband]

What if they made a bike in the shape of a sportbike eg; CBR 150 and gave it an automatic transmission and more power thean a yamaha novou?

I'd be all over it.

I dont see why they cant, just look at those big ass yamaha scooters.

[neverdie]

Do you have trouble with manual bikes?

[Richard-BKK]

They have a sporty automatic already, the Yamaha TMAX with its 499cc parallel twin engine is very capable to keep up with motorcycles in the same class. Probably next year, lets hope that, Yamaha will introduce the TMAX Triple in Thailand which is powered with a 3 cylinder 750cc and most who have had a go with the Yamaha TMAX Triple say it is more an automatic "Ninja" ... from Yamaha... (personally I did not have the pleasure to ride one so I can only say what other commented about this Sport(y)-scooter)

Edited December 2, 2009 by Richard-BKK

[Spoonman]

[neverdie]

^spoonman

[neverdie]

They have a sporty automatic already, the Yamaha TMAX with its 499cc parallel twin engine is very capable to keep up with motorcycles in the same class. Probably next year, lets hope that, Yamaha will introduce the TMAX Triple in Thailand which is powered with a 3 cylinder 750cc and most who have had a go with the Yamaha TMAX Triple say it is more an automatic "Ninja" ... from Yamaha... (personally I did not have the pleasure to ride one so I can only say what other commented about this Sport(y)-scooter)

Ohh Richard, who the hel_l are 'most who' ??? Seriously, you try sellin one of these to a real sports bike enthusiast and 'most will' laugh in your face.

What can possibly be sporty about gliding into a corner with phark all engine braking ability and floundering about as the bike decides what gear it will change into as you 3 parts past the apex of the corner??

[Powerband]

I'm not talking about those big ugly ass scooters on crackrock.

A sportbike shape similiar to the CBR 150 but with auto transmission. It would clean up the thai market.

[Richard-BKK]

Hi Neverdie,

We all know your nickname, but not make it Nevercheck, the Yamaha TMAX has 44 BHP, which means that this is actual in the rear wheel. Now less say I have no idea about things, but a 44 HP machine which Yamaha promotes as sporty-maxi-scooter against something similar non-automatic.

Right, what you bring a Kawasaki Ninja 250R, with positive counting 33hp?

With the price tag Yamaha has placed on the Yamaha TMAX, I would point everybody to a Kawasaki ER6N or a Ninja 650R, but that is not the question of the OP...

Edited December 2, 2009 by Richard-BKK

[Absingjul]

Maybe because there is no market for sport bikes designed for old men and little girls?

[neverdie]

Hi Richard,

I didnt check to see what the RWHP was, but that wasnt the point I was making, hp has nothing to do with it. Can you seriously imagine an auto racing a real bike with a gearbox of similar hp.

Personally if I had a choice of ride between the 33hp ninja and the 44hp auto, i would pick the ninja everytime, my point being, gliding into corners while the bike flanders around trying to work out the appropriate gear to use to leave the corner isnt the way I ride motorcycles. Suggesting to true 'sports bike' riders that these things are good is going to be a real difficult task.

Anyway, back to your auto dude & see if you can send us a picture of you cornering on one with ur knee down (perhaps with Casey Stoner trailing in the distance)

[PeaceBlondie]

I think Honda had auto transmush sportsbikes around 1980. Which is like making Valentino Rossi race in a girdle and a lady's bonnet.

[noahvail]

They have a sporty automatic already, the Yamaha TMAX with its 499cc parallel twin engine is very capable to keep up with motorcycles in the same class. Probably next year, lets hope that, Yamaha will introduce the TMAX Triple in Thailand which is powered with a 3 cylinder 750cc and most who have had a go with the Yamaha TMAX Triple say it is more an automatic "Ninja" ... from Yamaha... (personally I did not have the pleasure to ride one so I can only say what other commented about this Sport(y)-scooter)

I dunno...with those two scooters, with the weight of the engine and rider placed middle-to-rear of center, wouldn't the front tire get more than a bit squirrelly in the curves? I'd really hate to be trying to force the bike to go round a tight curve, then a surprise gear change as ND said...

I don't know and can't be bothered to find out if they're going to make them here in Thailand. If not, my guess (and it's only a guess) is that it'll be way out of the price range of most people who ride scooters and want to transition up.

[Richard-BKK]

Indeed, you have a point Neverdie, but then a real sport rider will never go for an automatic, still many manufacturers push machines on the market which would be serious competition for similar powered manual controlled machines.

And if you would, feel the Casey Stoner feeling, we have a Ducati 1098S for sell on our website, I personally wait for the delivery of a bit more powerful Ducati.

For the knee-down on an automatic, you again forget to check the web, a modern automatic as for example the Aprilia Mana is very capable to take corners and outperform some transmission bikes...

But then to get the knee really down on a Suzuki Raider R 150 you need to get off the bike and join the play-ground....

Edited December 2, 2009 by Richard-BKK

[LivinLOS]

I'm not talking about those big ugly ass scooters on crackrock.

A sportbike shape similiar to the CBR 150 but with auto transmission. It would clean up the thai market.

The problem is that with an auto you dont have engine braking it freewheels..

Then when you feed the power back in the CVT belts go from not applying power, to applying power in a uncontrolled way.. Awful for mid corner power adjustments or tightening a line by riding through it.

Both of which basically rule out use in a sportbike setting..

So echo the..

Then again in your world a tuned auto scoot can outrun a literbike so who knows.

[BigBikeBKK]

It's called a Honda DN-01.

Cool bike but not a sport bike.

[Richard-BKK]

Nope the automatic from hel_l is Italian it is called Aprilia Mana 850, knee-down very capable and outperforming a few none-European motorcycles, very likely with all with a smile from ear-to-ear. But then we start to loose grip of our little motorcycling world in Thailand.

All this automatic uber beasts are not available in Thailand, and if anybody on a Kawasaki Ninja 250R wants to race against a girly on a Yamaha TMAX, I'm very sure that Yamaha would like to show what the little "sporty" scooter can do. After I see Jorge Lorenzo on a Yamaha Fino I cannot stop laughing... so yes, with Yamaha everything is possible to get back to serious business...

Edited December 2, 2009 by Richard-BKK

[JUDAS]

[Richard-BKK]

I dunno...with those two scooters, with the weight of the engine and rider placed middle-to-rear of center, wouldn't the front tire get more than a bit squirrelly in the curves? I'd really hate to be trying to force the bike to go round a tight curve, then a surprise gear change as ND said...

I don't know and can't be bothered to find out if they're going to make them here in Thailand. If not, my guess (and it's only a guess) is that it'll be way out of the price range of most people who ride scooters and want to transition up.

You have indeed a good point, but then the Yamaha TMAX is powered by a Variable Automatic Transmission, which never changes a gear and is completely variable which give you actual the perfect power in a corner and takes you out of a corner if you where on a jet engine.

Automatic sporty scooters are well developed, nothing like early turbo motorcycles at the end of the 80s, on which I was able to set my (hopeful) lifetime record of broken bones... this was when I was getting out of a corner, get on the throttle and was going well until the turbo kicked in... and then everything was blure...

[neverdie]

I'm not talking about those big ugly ass scooters on crackrock.

A sportbike shape similiar to the CBR 150 but with auto transmission. It would clean up the thai market.

The problem is that with an auto you dont have engine braking it freewheels..

Then when you feed the power back in the CVT belts go from not applying power, to applying power in a uncontrolled way.. Awful for mid corner power adjustments or tightening a line by riding through it.

Both of which basically rule out use in a sportbike setting..

So echo the..

Then again in your world a tuned auto scoot can outrun a literbike so who knows.

Thankyou for echoing my thoughts.....but what would i know

[neverdie]

Indeed, you have a point Neverdie, but then a real sport rider will never go for an automatic

But then to get the knee really down on a Suzuki Raider R 150 you need to get off the bike and join the play-ground....

That was my original point Richard.

As for the zuki raider and the knee down, err no thanks, I wouldnt wanna try that either....my raiders just a commuter thats a little more fun than an auto to ride

[neverdie]

Sorry, thats fekkin horrible. Anyway, enuf from me, its horses for courses and each to their own.

[LivinLOS]

You have indeed a good point, but then the Yamaha TMAX is powered by a Variable Automatic Transmission, which never changes a gear and is completely variable which give you actual the perfect power in a corner and takes you out of a corner if you where on a jet engine.

Ohh I dont deny they have the power.. But its the application of that power..

I mean I can powerslide / drift an auto car no problem, but I wouldnt attempt to control the rear end on the ragged edge the same in an auto..

Its that same lack of fine control.

Automatic sporty scooters are well developed, nothing like early turbo motorcycles at the end of the 80s, on which I was able to set my (hopeful) lifetime record of broken bones... this was when I was getting out of a corner, get on the throttle and was going well until the turbo kicked in... and then everything was blure...

In fact its the turbo lag feeling is an ideal comparison..

I remember a nissan 200sx turbo I owned for a few weeks.. Had some power and I am sure its a capable car in manual.. But dear god it was a nightmare with boost lag and auto kickdown.. Thats the same kind of horror I would feel from the on off power delivery in an auto motorbike but with far less tolerance for drifting the back end.

[Richard-BKK]

O LivinLOS,

I'm the last one who probably buy an automatic, riding one will probably never compute for me... If we look at the original question, the Yamaha TMAX is here, and available... for the price I would say learn how to work a transmission and get a Kawasaki ER6N, if you mess-up one transmission, but another one still you cheaper then a Yamaha Tmax

[submaniac]

I don't care how fast the Tmax or Burgman are, I would still feel like a douchebag riding one.

[seedy]

The big attraction for me in riding a sportbike is the control you have to cover ground quickly. Any CVT will not allow you have this control.

By the by - those Turbo bikes from the 80's - you should have tried my Kawasaki H2, punched and polished, flat-slided, expansion-chamber Brute !!! If you were not careful, it would pull the handlebars right out of your hands. It was GREAT !!!

[Atmos]

These Honda were selling in New Zealand last year - were released there and Oz a year before USA - pre-summer for each hemisphere I suppose.

Anyway - 100% ugly to me but they were selling - popular among Ulysses Club (minimum age 50, some in their 80s) members. Read the review, the 'auto' stuff is very clever.

Not for me, but if you buy one and are happy with it . . . and it's two-wheels.

Honda DN 01 review

[LivinLOS]

I don't care how fast the Tmax or Burgman are, I would still feel like a douchebag riding one.

I ohh would have a T-Max.. I kinda like em..

But purely as a popping down the road in sandals kinda ride.. Would just be a king size scooter for the XXL set.

[submaniac]

I saw the DN-01 at the dealership. I wasn't all the surprised that the thing wasn't exactly jumping off the sales floor. In person, and in pictures, it is an absolutely stunning bike. Then I took a look at it, and it has an anemic 650cc engine, automatic transmission, and a very high sticker price (like you can buy a big twin Harley or a Ducati for the same price). Blech. Honda DN-01, Yamaha T-Max, Suzuki Burgman. Same thing. Bikes designed by the manufacturers for people who do not know how to ride proper motorcycles (proper motorcycle is not step through, and has a clutch and manual transmission). However, people who didn't ride before, and want to (later in life) ride usually end up learning how to ride a real motorcycle rather than buying something less than a real motorcycle. Automatic CBR150 ain't gonna sell a who bunch of bikes and neither will the Honda DN-01, T-Max, or Burgman.

[jackcorbett]

Ohh Richard, who the hel_l are 'most who' ??? Seriously, you try sellin one of these to a real sports bike enthusiast and 'most will' laugh in your face.

What can possibly be sporty about gliding into a corner with phark all engine braking ability and floundering about as the bike decides what gear it will change into as you 3 parts past the apex of the corner??

I've been reading lots of reviews about the 400 c.c. Yamaha Majesty, the 500 c.c. Yamaha T Max and such Hondas as the 300. And the general consensus is 1. People aren't laughing when they see a T-Max down the road. They are awed by the styling. Also, the T-Max has excellent road manners and all around performance for highway cruising, and from what I've read it gives nothing away to most motorcycles. As far as the Ninja 250 is concerned as others have pointed out here it needs to rev high to get its performance. The T Max doesn't. The T Max has power that comes on much more easily and swiftly and if one were cruising long distances on say American Western highways, the T Max is going to be infinitely more comfortable and capable. And from what I've read about Honda's 300 c.c. automatic, its brakes are terrific and its handling is actually better than most true motorcycles.

I saw a new T Max over at Carre Four a couple of weeks ago and it was simply gorgeous as well as impeccably put together. But the price tag is way up there. So I do concur about the Kawasaki"s ER6n 650 machine. World of difference between 250,000 baht and 600,000. That's what I'd have for cruising around Thailand. But-----the T Max is no laughing matter to be embarrassed driving. It's a true state of the art machine. But as I've said many times before. My driving is confined to Pattaya and the immediate surrounding area so I need a "city bike". The T Max at 450 pounds is going to be much harder to drive in town than something like the 230 pound Yamaha Nouvo. I personally like the concept of the Honda 300 Sh I. It weighs around 300 pounds so I think it is still small enough and agile enough to deal easily with Pattaya traffic and it's got enough power and speed to deal with much higher speed highway traffic as well.

As far as feeling like a wuss driving a larger automatic, I only have this to say. I'd much rather be on the cutting edge than be driving yesterday's technology. Now that I've said that, I sure wish I had my old BMW R-65 shaft driven 650 horizonally opposed twin. Even here in Pattaya with all its city driving.

[BigBikeBKK]

People aren't laughing when they see a T-Max down the road. They are awed by the styling.

You're probably right, people who don't know anything about motorcycles may well be awed by the site of a big scooter. The rest of us know better