1,500 Riot Police Deployed To Maintain Order During Red Shirt Rally

[jjonz]

The red-shirt leaders are marking (marring?) constitution day after their counterparts (Puea Thai) and their de-facto leader (Mr Thaksin) rejected constitution reform (which THEY demanded in the first place...)

The sticking point was the current Govt's insistence on a public referendum, to which Mr Thaksin reportedly stated: 'the proposed charter changes do not affect the people'... (how democratic)

The 'main' proposed charter change was to do away with party dissolution for executive vote fraud which has snared the past incarnations of Mr Thaksin's various parties.

Meanwhile, the rally is taking place alongside the site celebrating HM the King's birthday, who simply wished for peace and unity and asked for people to put the country above *self* interest....

However, Jan 8th is the final possible date for the court decision on confiscation of Mr Thaksin's frozen 76 billion baht, hence the 'urgency'? (which apparently overrides all else, even a beloved, hopeful birthday wish)

Whilst having never been a fan of Taksin, I do believe wholeheartedly that the belief that the populace of any society where there is such a massive and disparate proportion of wealth between the few at the expense (no pun intended) of the poor can live in peace and unity, is, in the long term, impossible.

If they were to jettison Taksin, (yes, I know he's been bankrolling them, but, surely the core issues, poverty and the uncaring attitude encouraged by the sakdina system of this country - somewhat akin to the caste system in India) were addressed, they might gain more sympathy for their cause, and justly (pun intended) so.

I believe the cessation of knee jerk reactions from those who either support the Yellows or the Reds and some thought given to both movements' fundamental principles might be more helpful.

Edited December 10, 2009 by jjonz

[scorecard]

Pity they dont police the yellow shirts like this.

Because one crazy Thai Army general said again and again that there will be the retired Rangers with weapons joining the Red Shirts. That's why.

I'd say its more to do with the BKK police chiefs being on the side of the ruling establishment.

Are you insinuating the Yellows are just peaceful protestors and the reds arent, i was in the centre of last years troubles and the army/police were the ones who started the violence, i watched much of it from my hotel window.

Funny how this new 'information' about the army & police starting the violence suddenly appears.

So 'whichschool', why wasn't this reported in the extensive coverage at the time and immediately after the events?

Since you watched it from your hotel window perhaps you have some pics, care to share them!

[mahtin]

Whilst having never been a fan of Taksin, I do believe wholeheartedly that the belief that the populace of any society where there is such a massive and disparate proportion of wealth between the few at the expense (no pun intended) of the poor can live in peace and unity, is, in the long term, impossible.

If they were to jettison Taksin, (yes, I know he's been bankrolling them, but, surely the core issues, poverty and the uncaring attitude encouraged by the sakdina system of this country - somewhat akin to the caste system in India) were addressed, they might gain more sympathy for their cause, and justly (pun intended) so.

I believe the cessation of knee jerk reactions from those who either support the Yellows or the Reds and some thought given to both movements' fundamental principles might be more helpful.

jjonz, your sentence structure would defeat a German.

[anon8]

agreed, jjonz's sentence structure just defeated a lonely Estonian

[RegularReader]

Although not strictly "on topic", since early this morning, every time I try to access Bangkok Post website to see if there is any news on the Red meeting and/or anything else, my virus protector blocks access, telling me the site has a virus : HTML/ScrInject.B.Gen.virus

Is anybody else having this problem ?

Edited December 10, 2009 by RegularReader

[h90]

Although not strictly "on topic", since early this morning, every time I try to access Bangkok Post website to see if there is any news on the Red meeting and/or anything else, my virus protector blocks access, telling me the site has a virus : HTML/ScrInject.B.Gen.virus

Is anybody else having this problem ?

I have no problems....

[RegularReader]

Although not strictly "on topic", since early this morning, every time I try to access Bangkok Post website to see if there is any news on the Red meeting and/or anything else, my virus protector blocks access, telling me the site has a virus : HTML/ScrInject.B.Gen.virus

Is anybody else having this problem ?

I have no problems....

Okay - thanks.

It might be my protector (ESET NOD32) is being "over sensitive"...

[WAERTH]

To get this topic back on track:

The "other not to be named english language newssheet" mentioned on its website 5000 demonstrators so far.

[webfact]

Thousands of Red Shirts mass in Thai capital amid tight security

BANGKOK, Dec 10 (TNA) - Thousands of anti-government demonstrators from the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) on Thursday massed at Bangkok's Democracy Monument to mark Constitution Day amid tight security, but the movement's leader promised the rally will end, as scheduled, by midnight if it is not disrupted.

The so-called Red Shirt mass rally began Thursday noon at Ratchadamnoen Avenue's Democracy Monument, even as the government's grand celebrations to mark His Majesty the King's birthday was being held at the nearby Royal Plaza.

Some 1,500 riot police are on standby at Metropolitan Police Bureau, while local police in the protest areas have been overseeing security during the rally to prevent third party or groups from 'creating a situation'.

Ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra will address his supporters via video link in the evening and lead them in a mass candle-lit ceremony to bless His Majesty King Bhumibol Adulyadej on the occasion of his 82th birthday.

Key UDD leader Jatuporn Prompan said the Thursday rally is not aimed at toppling the Abhisit Vejjajiva government, but if any clash occurs, the movement will prolong its rally indefinitely.

If there is no disruption, the rally will end by midnight and the UDD leaders will meet again Tuesday December 15 to discuss the group's position in the current political atmosphere, according to Mr Jatuporn.

The UDD leader said he was informed that four busloads of bogus Red Shirt supports recruited in the northeastern province of Buri Ram are heading toward the capital to join the demonstration.

Mr Jatuporn claimed that a 'real' Red Shirt supporter was by chance in one of the buses and witnessed that red T-shirts were distributed to the travellers, while some carried metal pipes.

The UDD leader said he asked Deputy Finance Minister Pradit Phatthraprasit, assigned to coordinate with key Red Shirt leaders, to warn Newin Chidchob, de facto leader of the Bhumjai Thai Party, the key coalition partner, not to bring imposters to the rally, otherwise possible violence could not be avoided.

Meanwhile, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Thursday urged the Red Shirts to rally peacefully, saying he believes the demonstration will not be prolonged.

The government will not set any conditions that will lead to a prolonged rally, he said. Instead it decided to suspend the celebrations marking the king's birthday at Ratchadamnoen Klang Avenue Thursday to avoid any clash and the festive event will begin again Friday.

"I don't know why some people are trying to spoil the atmosphere," said the premier. "Everyone wants this month to be auspicious and full of happiness, while the government has been obviously flexible to the matter and wants the demonstrators to bear in mind about this too." (TNA)

-- TNA 2009/12/10

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[jjonz]

agreed, jjonz's sentence structure just defeated a lonely Estonian

I apologise, English is not my first language, but pedantry regarding 'sentence structure' aside, I assume you have the wit to address the issues raised in my post? Or perhaps not?

Edited December 10, 2009 by jjonz

[RegularReader]

To get this topic back on track:

The "other not to be named english language newssheet" mentioned on its website 5000 demonstrators so far.

Thanks, but the mods don't seem to have a problem with me naming the paper as the Bangkok Post.

If there are 5,000 in current reports - and the figure is correct- it would seem like they'll probably end up with their 20,000 - 30,000 as per most Bangkok meetings.

No matter, both sides will inflate, or deflate the figures, to suit their own agendas.

[h90]

Pity they dont police the yellow shirts like this.

Because one crazy Thai Army general said again and again that there will be the retired Rangers with weapons joining the Red Shirts. That's why.

I'd say its more to do with the BKK police chiefs being on the side of the ruling establishment.

Are you insinuating the Yellows are just peaceful protestors and the reds arent, i was in the centre of last years troubles and the army/police were the ones who started the violence, i watched much of it from my hotel window.

Funny how this new 'information' about the army & police starting the violence suddenly appears.

So 'whichschool', why wasn't this reported in the extensive coverage at the time and immediately after the events?

Since you watched it from your hotel window perhaps you have some pics, care to share them!

It was mentioned all the time. Also it was sent live on ASTV. As well Samak did a lot barking....disperse the mob by any means with army, bla bla bla.

Beside that the neighbor of one of our favorite restaurant lost one leg and a woman beside my wife collapsed as she got a full blow of rubber bullets on her body.

The brother of a friend got hit by a machete as he hunted for the people who shot the M79 grenades on the PAD (who shot them is unknown, so can't blame to police on that).

[h90]

To get this topic back on track:

The "other not to be named english language newssheet" mentioned on its website 5000 demonstrators so far.

Thanks, but the mods don't seem to have a problem with me naming the paper as the Bangkok Post.

If there are 5,000 in current reports - and the figure is correct- it would seem like they'll probably end up with their 20,000 - 30,000 as per most Bangkok meetings.

No matter, both sides will inflate, or deflate the figures, to suit their own agendas.

I remember when PAD took government house, one newspaper reported more than 5000 people. One German Agency reported 550.000 and PAD spoke about 1.000.000

So everyone lies on the numbers (no matter if red or yellow)

[Mario2008]

To get this topic back on track:

The "other not to be named english language newssheet" mentioned on its website 5000 demonstrators so far.

Thanks, but the mods don't seem to have a problem with me naming the paper as the Bangkok Post.

If there are 5,000 in current reports - and the figure is correct- it would seem like they'll probably end up with their 20,000 - 30,000 as per most Bangkok meetings.

No matter, both sides will inflate, or deflate the figures, to suit their own agendas.

There is no problem with naming the Bangkok Post, but for legal reasons we cannot link to them or post (part) of their content.

[whichschool]

Pity they dont police the yellow shirts like this.

Because one crazy Thai Army general said again and again that there will be the retired Rangers with weapons joining the Red Shirts. That's why.

I'd say its more to do with the BKK police chiefs being on the side of the ruling establishment.

Are you insinuating the Yellows are just peaceful protestors and the reds arent, i was in the centre of last years troubles and the army/police were the ones who started the violence, i watched much of it from my hotel window.

Funny how this new 'information' about the army & police starting the violence suddenly appears.

So 'whichschool', why wasn't this reported in the extensive coverage at the time and immediately after the events?

Since you watched it from your hotel window perhaps you have some pics, care to share them!

Why is it funny, i wrote 1 line on my first post surely i was allowed to elaborate on it, is that not how forums work? Or is this thread a 1 post limit where everything you know must be splattered across the first post?

I stayed at the Bangkok City Suite on Petchburi Rd Soi 1 i arrived the 2 nights before the trouble the area was blocked off and i needed to carry my bags several hundred metres due to this. The red shirts were polite to me i didnt side witht them as they wore Liverpool shirts and i dont know enough about Thai politics or care enough to have an allegiance with either, and i intend to keep my knowledge on this subject limited. But it seems the majority on here are anti Thakisin and his party hence why you would call anyone who witnessed something that goes against your beliefs a liar. I'm English i am only interested in British politics no other comprende! hence i'm not biased either way! Though i will say i'm a capitalist and believe in democracy in it truest form (not whats in England) the Yellows most certainly dont.

I havent had a camera even on my phone for 10 yrs as it was stolen.

It was covered on pretty much every news channel in the world, there was a bus ablaze on top of the flyover with Red Shirts behind it, how it was covered in the Thai press i dont know but everyone who was watching what i did said its Thai officials shooting Thai people it wasnt later until we found out it was rubber bullets but how were we to know that at the time.

If the red shirts were firing live amnunition back with the amount of army and police 4-5000 there and members of the public there would have been huge casualties, from the chaos i didnt see one injury amongst them where we were.

Edited December 10, 2009 by whichschool

[Meridian007]

Key UDD leader Jatuporn Prompan said the Thursday rally is not aimed at toppling the Abhisit Vejjajiva government, but if any clash occurs, the movement will prolong its rally indefinitely.

If there is no disruption, the rally will end by midnight and the UDD leaders will meet again Tuesday December 15 to discuss the group's position in the current political atmosphere, according to Mr Jatuporn.

The UDD leader said he was informed that four busloads of bogus Red Shirt supports recruited in the northeastern province of Buri Ram are heading toward the capital to join the demonstration.

Mr Jatuporn claimed that a 'real' Red Shirt supporter was by chance in one of the buses and witnessed that red T-shirts were distributed to the travellers, while some carried metal pipes.

So they are preemptively giving their excuses for creating a riot and prolonging this over the long term? "Oh, it wasn't us that did that, just some people that have rallied with us, stayed with us, (been payed by us), but they aren't real red shirts, just some fakes. (or scapegoats)"

Ya, I believe it. It's not as if Jatuporn hasn't been screaming for a bloodbath for the past year...

[asiawatcher]

The red-shirt leaders are marking (marring?) constitution day after their counterparts (Puea Thai) and their de-facto leader (Mr Thaksin) rejected constitution reform (which THEY demanded in the first place...)

The sticking point was the current Govt's insistence on a public referendum, to which Mr Thaksin reportedly stated: 'the proposed charter changes do not affect the people'... (how democratic)

The 'main' proposed charter change was to do away with party dissolution for executive vote fraud which has snared the past incarnations of Mr Thaksin's various parties.

Meanwhile, the rally is taking place alongside the site celebrating HM the King's birthday, who simply wished for peace and unity and asked for people to put the country above *self* interest....

However, Jan 8th is the final possible date for the court decision on confiscation of Mr Thaksin's frozen 76 billion baht, hence the 'urgency'? (which apparently overrides all else, even a beloved, hopeful birthday wish)

Absolutely correct - well said.

[lazygourmet]

Pity they dont police the yellow shirts like this.

: not your post... Yourself!

[IMA_FARANG]

To be honest I would say myself to both Reds and Yellows....a pox on both of them.

But about 3 weeks ago I discovered that my Thai wife's daughter (by first marriage) required an operation for a fibroid tumor in her uterus...which fortuneatly turned out to be non-cancerous.

I found out that she was once a worker in a government run kindergarten. She apparently was given medical benefits with that job. Thaksin was in power at the time....and my wife thinks Thaksin was the one who got the benefits for those "helpers" as her daughter was in that government school.

The good news was that the government health insurance will pay 80% of the bill for the hospitalization and the operation.

I had expected to be paying for all of it . So right now, I feel at least a little gratitude for Khun Thaksin and his band.

Yes, I know it was probably stolen from someone else...but at least this one time it came my way and to my advantage.

But to be honest....I may be the only person who is hoping there will be some disruption/trouble this month. Why? Because I hope it brings the Baht/Dollar rate back up to 33 or 34 Baht to a Dollar. Selfish? Yes, and I don't care.

[hansnl]

agreed, jjonz's sentence structure just defeated a lonely Estonian

Oh dear, how sad, never mind.

[Meridian007]

Any updates? I haven't seen anything from either of the papers yet.

[george]

Update:

Thaksin says he simply wants to return to server people, not to become PM

BANGKOK: -- Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra told red-shirt people Thursday night that he would like to return to serve the people.

Thaksin made a video link to address the red-shirt demonstrators at the Democracy Monument at 7:20 pm.

He told them that he did not want to return to power as the prime minister but he simply wanted to help them overcome the economic crisis.

Thaksin thanked the demonstrators for coming out to demand the reinstatement of the 1997 constitution.

He said if the Pheu Thai Party wins the next election, the party would definitely replace the current charter with the 1997 constitution.

-- The Nation 2009-12-10

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[Splatter]

Got back at around 9.30pm

Many ralliers were leaving then, after the satellite link up with Thaksin had finished.

No idea of numbers but I can tell you that Rajdamnoen Road was still packed all the way around Democracy Monument and from Democracy Monument to the Kok Wua (?) intersection (... where the memorial to October 1973 is, where the road goes off to Khao San Road) when I was making my way away. And I mean packed.

There were also a fair number "behind" the stage on Democracy Monument.... leading up to the fort and Roha Prasat.

All jolly and merry. Usual mix of normal people.

Didn't look like a raving mad mob at all.

Anyone can tell me the nme of the bloke signing the folks' shirts I'd be grateful.

Pictures here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11401580@N03/...57622973820964/

[Meridian007]

Update:

Thaksin says he simply wants to return to server people, not to become PM

-- The Nation 2009-12-10

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

I know it's a typo, but I read it as sever! Freudian slip indeed!

*****************************

I just looked at your pictures Splatter, and I think that's Kattiya. He's the one who was providing "protection" for the protest. He's a scary, scary man (and not quite all there, I think).

Edited December 10, 2009 by Meridian007

[Splatter]

Thanks, I'll check on google... the Katiya lead should get me in the right direction.

[Meridian007]

No problem, here's his website. http://www.sae-dang.com/

There's more discussion about him on the first page. He, along with Jatuporn are some of the unstable elements in the red shirt leadership. I was worried that with the two of them together tonight, it would get crazy. I'm glad that according to your report, it didn't. Whew!

[moskito]

I have the feeling since years, the whole country is OWNED by a handfull of people and EVERY way to come to power is ok.

The only reason behind all is MONEY, nothing else!

I am not a fan of any politician or prime minister here in the past years but what has changed since Khun Abisith rules the country....if he does...`?

OK, Thaksin put his pockets full of money like every (Chinese/Asian) politician before him but at least he did something for the country, not always the

optimal way but thats another story...and NO...I dont want him back.

[xminator]

While watching from my condo building, I've seen wonderful fireworks coming from that area every night for the past 6 days, I hope I don't see explosions and gunfire tonight.

Unfortunately, that's exactly what they want you to see!

So where is the explosions and gunfire you promised the forum earlier today? Fearmonger...

[Golf]

While watching from my condo building, I've seen wonderful fireworks coming from that area every night for the past 6 days, I hope I don't see explosions and gunfire tonight.

Unfortunately, that's exactly what they want you to see!

So where is the explosions and gunfire you promised the forum earlier today? Fearmonger...

As a Thai person, I don't want to see any of these. Thailand is suffering from this political turmoil long enough!

[baht&sold]

So where is the explosions and gunfire you promised the forum earlier today? Fearmonger...

'Cheer' up, this will come (again) as in black Songkran, as in black new years '06, as in 'Frank' wants his dam_n money back (and a chance to double-up off shore accounts).

Democracy? Helping poor people? Helping Thailand? Honouring a beloved birthday?

Absolutely <deleted> all to do with the actual goal.

Rather, helping thy square-faced self... as always.

Edited December 10, 2009 by baht&sold