Global Climate Change Agreement

[Garry9999]

These kind of polls are running 50/50 in western countries at the moment. Interesting to see what TV members think.

Edited December 10, 2009 by Garry9999

[whichschool]

Cant see your point in the second question surely this is a fact that can be found out quite easily, i'd presum a large nation like LOS is there.

Everytime i put BBC on they are telling me its fact an the end of the world is near .... where is the counter argument ive had to dig to find about it.

Why is it when they are discussing this guy who raided email addresses of British scientists who have lied about Global Warming, are they only talking about how bad this elusive person is for doing so, instead of talking about the deception by government scientists, not one major TV station (i dont have Fox) is pushing this, seems like theyre all in it together.

How will me paying 50 pound more for my flight to LOS make less carbon emmisions?

We've fixed "The hole in the ozone layer" and "Global Warming" this shoudlnt be too much trouble.

With the UK/US/EU governments made credit crunch and this scam taxes are going to go through the roof, if the government has control over your money it mean theyre going to be making more decisions over your life in the future, thus controlling it more.

PS David Icke looks moderate these days in comparison to major politicians when they talk, and how much of a dick does Al "10 mansions" Gore look like after his recent plastic surgery.

Edited December 10, 2009 by whichschool

[nisakiman]

I hope nobody tells JR about this thread.

[Jingthing]

Global warming is real. The skeptics are irrational denial artists.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...9120903860.html

Doubters insist that the earth is not warming. This is in stark contrast to the consensus of 18 of the world's most respected scientific organizations, who strongly stated in an Oct. 21 letter to the U.S. Senate that human-induced climate change is real. Still, the doubters try to leverage any remaining points of scientific uncertainty about the details of warming trends to cast doubt on the overall conclusions shared by traditionally cautious, decidedly non-radical science organizations such as the National Academy of Sciences and the American Association for the Advancement of Science, which represents an estimated 10 million individual scientists through 262 affiliated societies. Doubters also make selective use of the evidence, noting that the warming of the late 1990s did not persist from 2001 to 2008, while ignoring the fact that the first decade of the 21st century looks like it will be the warmest decade on record.

Edited December 10, 2009 by Jingthing

[whichschool]

^^^^

Brains the argument isnt that the worlds climate is changing in the last 20 odd years, but whats causing it, and whether its cyclical.

From my North England town i saw 4-5 feet of snow every year my neices who are 11 have seen a decent amount once, but IMHO summers in the UK are wetter and cooler.

Edited December 10, 2009 by whichschool

[garyh]

Global warming is real. The skeptics are irrational denial artists.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...9120903860.html

Doubters insist that the earth is not warming. This is in stark contrast to the consensus of 18 of the world's most respected scientific organizations, who strongly stated in an Oct. 21 letter to the U.S. Senate that human-induced climate change is real. Still, the doubters try to leverage any remaining points of scientific uncertainty about the details of warming trends to cast doubt on the overall conclusions shared by traditionally cautious, decidedly non-radical science organizations such as the National Academy of Sciences and the American Association for the Advancement of Science, which represents an estimated 10 million individual scientists through 262 affiliated societies. Doubters also make selective use of the evidence, noting that the warming of the late 1990s did not persist from 2001 to 2008, while ignoring the fact that the first decade of the 21st century looks like it will be the warmest decade on record.

What globe is that? is the world not flat anymore?

[canuckamuck]

Copenhagen is a tax grab, nothing else.

[thaimite]

Global warming is real. The skeptics are irrational denial artists.

Or maybe not.

Listen to this interview and follow the links for an alternative opinion

http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2009/.../RIR-091201.php

or this link http://www.oism.org/pproject/

to read about the 31,000 US scientists who have signed a petition opposing the global warming theory

Edit

One last link

http://www.friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=3

Edited December 11, 2009 by thaimite

[mogoso]

Global warming is real. The skeptics are irrational denial artists.

Or maybe not.

Listen to this interview and follow the links for an alternative opinion

http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2009/.../RIR-091201.php

or this link http://www.oism.org/pproject/

to read about the 31,000 US scientists who have signed a petition opposing the global warming theory

Edit

One last link

http://www.friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=3

Facts cannot be used to combat the cult of global warming. Those who believe take it on faith rather than open scientific debate, not a closed door forum where even data used to produce their results will not be provided to others to check it.

Listening to one female commentator, who said that you can't see God either but it like global warming is fact. Al Gore the other day expounding on the use of geothermal heat to make energy, and that fool stated the earth a couple of kilometers down is a million degrees. We'd be or almost be a sun were that so. Yet some people follow his every word like its the gospel. I think the core is estimated to be 10,000 degrees with the temp 1,000 miles deep estimated to be 6,650 as a comparison to Gores babbling

[kiwiinasia]

Global Warming = New Religion.

Its a faith based science, one very similar to Alchemy, everyone thought that was on the ball too long ago.

I want them to impose taxes and regulations galore on THE NEWS MEDIA as they are the only fools believing this hook line and sinker.

ITS A THEORY not A FACT!

Theories are not a good basis for taxes.

[alant]

and the earth gets warmer, as it does now and again but this time there is irrefutable evidence that unlike in days gone by, once the temperature has risen by a couple of degrees thats it, it will stay there for ever and we are all doomed. i know this to be true as the bbc were reporting that th uk met office were indicating it, how much more proof is needed?

those that do not go along with this theory may as well throw them selves off the edge of the world just as i am sure the non believers of the flat earth did all those years ago when they took off on their mistaken edventures.

by the way why is this conference in copenhagen? isnt it cold there at this time of year? is is possible that co2 is being produced to ensure the delegates are warm enough? why did they not have it in a warmer place? mmmm

[Orac]

I am somewhat sitting on the fence as, though I am not totally convinced by the argument that man made global warming (as opposed to any other influences on environmental changes) is the key issue here there is some doubt in my mind and therefore it makes sense to take it seriously as an issue and explore ways of combatting it if it really exists.

What does bother me is the argument that the debate is over and that all serious scientists now back the theory - was it flat earthers that Gordon Brown refered to skeptics as recently. There is clearly a large body of science let alone public opinion that this debate is still wide open and to deny that is clearly a disengenious approach to take and is doing more harm than good to the AGM position. As a small snapshot of the debate as it is taking place on TV there is clearly no consensus on the issue and the most ferverent supporter of AGM seems to just reposting the same post again and again which almost seems to be pushing people the other way and question the validity of the argument. There certainly appears to be more skeptisism around now that a few months ago and I don't think all this can be put down to a few dodgy e-mails - more likely it is due to people being treated as idiots and told what to think rather than a rational debate on the issues.

[thaimite]

I wish there was a way to tax the hot air and noise pollution produced every time a politician opened his mouth.

[garyh]

I wish there was a way to tax the hot air and noise pollution produced every time a politician opened his mouth.

If someone could apply the same tax on thai visa they would be very rich too.

[RickBradford]

Come in, leave your credulity at the door, and take a sickbag as you pass.

This is not a hoax, but an open letter written by Clive Hamilton, a well-known Australian environmentalist.

He writes online for the publicly-funded Australian Broadcasting Corporation, an organisation similar in outlook and methods to the UK's Bolshevik Broadcasting Corporation (BBC).

He writes:

Hi there,

There's something you need to know about your father.

Your dad's job is to try to stop the government making laws to reduce Australia's carbon pollution. He is paid a lot of money to do that by big companies who do not want to own up to the fact that their pollution is changing the world's climate in very harmful ways.

Because of their pollution, lots of people, mostly poor people, are likely to die. They will die from floods, from diseases like dengue fever, and from starvation when their crops won't grow anymore.

The big companies are putting their profits before the lives of people. And your dad is helping them.

Your life is going to be worse too because of what your dad is doing when he goes to work each morning. By the time you are as old as your parents, Australia will be having a lot more heat waves, like the one in Melbourne earlier this year, and there will be more bush fires too.

Droughts will be worse, and you won't be able to have fun exploring the Great Barrier Reef because it won't be there anymore.

Deep down your dad knows all this, although he probably pretends he doesn't. If you've asked him about it he probably said that the scientists are not sure what's going to happen, or that Australia's carbon pollution is not very big, or that business is business.

He has to tell himself these things because otherwise he would feel too guilty and could not sleep very well at night.

So your dad is not really a bad person. He is not deliberately making the world a worse place for you and all the other kids. But he is telling lies to himself so he does not have to face up to the truth about what he does at work.

The thing is, though, that what your dad is doing is wrecking the future for my children too, and that makes me feel upset. Many Australians feel the same way; they think that what your father does is just plain wrong, and that he should stop.

I am sure it's hard for you to hear these words, but there is something you can do to help. Why not sit your dad down and have a good talk to him. Tell him you want him to stop helping the big companies that are spoiling the future for you and all the other kids at school. Tell him that the family would rather have less money if he had a different job, one you could be proud of.

Tell him that you know he will feel much happier inside if he is doing something to make Australia and the world a better place, instead of going to work every day to make it a worse one.

Your dad has lost his way, and you might be the only person in the world who can help him find it again. So talk to him.

Yours sincerely

Honestly, it's not a hoax. The article and some 375 comments, is here.

This monumental piece of nauseating, condescending, babyish writing has even been roundly condemned by other environmentalists.

And rightly so. When somebody has to resort to defending their position with this kind of immense hypocrisy and patronising creepiness, then it's easy to feel there's something seriously wrong with the position they're trying to defend.

Edited December 11, 2009 by RickBradford

[Jingthing]

Evolution is also a theory. A theory accepted as credible by all scientists except those more influenced by fundamentalist religious dogma. Global climate change (being caused by human activity), its severe effects (already in evidence in many places in the world), and the urgency of the need to act is something we don't have forever to debate if it is true. You skeptical lot are wild gamblers if you refuse to accept the overwhelming acceptance of this "theory" by mainstream science. Its really sad to watch humans commit planetary suicide.

Edited December 11, 2009 by Jingthing

[garyh]

Those that deny global warming exists are only doing so because they are afraid there economy may suffer if we make changes. But what will happen if they are wrong?

[RickBradford]

its severe effects (already in evidence in many places in the world)

Perhaps you could share with us some of these "severe effects" of man-made global warming for which you have evidence.

And please don't try the polar bears (busted), the glaciers (busted), sea-level (busted), the polar regions (busted), the hurricanes (busted).

Also, things are not true just because Al Gore or other politicians say they are. This is an error too many people make. This should be a matter for scientists.

[canuckamuck]

Those that deny global warming exists are only doing so because they are afraid there economy may suffer if we make changes. But what will happen if they are wrong?

I am so sick of this response to the argument. Always someone has to say what if your wrong. So I would like to reverse the question.

What if your side is wrong and we give a global bureaucracy the ability to dictate to sovereign nations exactly what they can and can not do. And how to pay for this green reform, the tax structure being proposed in Copenhagen to combat carbon ( which is the basis of all life and activity) will be a death blow to many nations economies particularly the industrialized nations. I hope you will be pleased to see your jobs moving to non restricted third world countries. Maybe you can learn to pull weeds or weave baskets for 3 bucks a day.

So if the science is falsified, as it clearly now seems to be, would you still be happy to give up your freedom and your way of life. The time is getting very short to stop this global fraud, power grab.

[Garry9999]

Richard Dawkins answered the "What if you are wrong question" here.

His response has some relevance in this debate.

Edited December 11, 2009 by Garry9999

[yabaaaa]

Evolution is also a theory. A theory accepted as credible by all scientists except those more influenced by fundamentalist religious dogma. Global climate change (being caused by human activity), its severe effects (already in evidence in many places in the world), and the urgency of the need to act is something we don't have forever to debate if it is true. You skeptical lot are wild gamblers if you refuse to accept the overwhelming acceptance of this "theory" by mainstream science. Its really sad to watch humans commit planetary suicide.

I disagree, show me the Maldives is going underwater show me that island they always cite in the pacific Tuvalu is REALLY going under and its not the locals just ruining their own environment. I see the Maldives bleating on about them "going under" Ive been going there 20 years nothing looks different to me EXCEPT islands that once housed a few thousand people are now over run with a hel_l of a lot more than that. resorts I went to 20 years ago with 30 units now have 300+ and some out in the reef. They are destroying their own environment not global warming. Meerufenfushi is one I went there in 1989 today the once nice green island is almost all holiday units all that <deleted> and crap goes straight out into the sea.

Its sad to watch those around me be conned and sad to see no possible talk of it being WRONG by the BBC ewho are totally acepting of this its almost uncanny watching it. I only hope I live long enough for me to see it all come out that they were wrong

http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi...ives+population

Check out Tuvalu the real story destruction of any important markers and the real reaosn they are going under.

Should we take more care of the planet yes should we believe this agw stuff not yet if ever

[yabaaaa]

To answer the question of the OP is "the truth" this will now degenerate into a global warming slanging match and be pointless......... they always do

[GuestHouse]

I've spent all my working life in the Energy Business - Environmental Legislation has provided the basis of at least half of the projects (Provided at least half of my wages) since the day I started work - NOx Reduction, Ground Water Contamination, Sulphur Reduction, Unburned Hydrocarbons Reduction, Particulate Reduction and now CO2 Reduction.

GIVE ME MORE MORE MORE !!!!

Environmental Legislation is GREAT FOR BUSINESS.......... FANTASTIC FOR MY WAGE PACKET ......... WONDERFUL FOR ME AND MY FAMILY.

MORE MORE MORE.

Edited December 12, 2009 by bonobo
changed to normal font and color

[Garry9999]

To answer the question of the OP is "the truth" this will now degenerate into a global warming slanging match and be pointless......... they always do

If the slanging match raises awareness of the topic, I don't believe it is pointless.

[PhilHarries]

It's the biggest tax grab in the history of the world and dear old Gordon Brown is leading the EU subscription with 1.5 bn GBP, the biggest donation. The Germans and the French must be laughing their socks off, Britain is virtually broke and that daft Scots git can't give it away fast enough.

Will the last person to leave the UK tell the muslims that the rent's due.

[Garry9999]

It's the biggest tax grab in the history of the world and dear old Gordon Brown is leading the EU subscription with 1.5 bn GBP, the biggest donation. The Germans and the French must be laughing their socks off, Britain is virtually broke and that daft Scots git can't give it away fast enough.

Will the last person to leave the UK tell the muslims that the rent's due.

I left in 1982, but I'd like to go back someday.

[GuestHouse]

I left in 1982, but I'd like to go back someday.

At least you're looking forward to it. More than a few have not yet faced the fact they are going back whether they like it or not.

When the sh1t hits the fan it's the only place that will have them.

[Garry9999]

I left in 1982, but I'd like to go back someday.

At least you're looking forward to it. More than a few have not yet faced the fact they are going back whether they like it or not.

When the sh1t hits the fan it's the only place that will have them.

When you walk, through the storm

Hold you head up high

And don't be afraid , Of the dark

At the end of the storm, is a golden sky

And sweet silver song of our love

Walk on, through the wind

Walk on, through the rain

Though your dreams be tossed

And walk,

Oh, walk on (walk on)

walk on (walk on)

Walk on(walk on)

With hope in your heart

And you'll never walk alone

You'll never walk alone

Alone

[yabaaaa]

It's the biggest tax grab in the history of the world and dear old Gordon Brown is leading the EU subscription with 1.5 bn GBP, the biggest donation. The Germans and the French must be laughing their socks off, Britain is virtually broke and that daft Scots git can't give it away fast enough.

Will the last person to leave the UK tell the muslims that the rent's due.

I left in 1982, but I'd like to go back someday.

Better be quick global warming will put all of us underwater

[yabaaaa]

It's the biggest tax grab in the history of the world and dear old Gordon Brown is leading the EU subscription with 1.5 bn GBP, the biggest donation. The Germans and the French must be laughing their socks off, Britain is virtually broke and that daft Scots git can't give it away fast enough.

Will the last person to leave the UK tell the muslims that the rent's due.

Actually I believe its a very cunning and clever one."were all doomed we must pay more to save the planet" who can argue with it we dont want to pay more but we must save the planet whatever the cost will not seem unreasonable to many.

I say let it die for humans anyway life will go on after us and probably much better for it.