Suzuki Hayate Or Skydrive.

[sausage3]

Hello,

I'm trying to decide between a Suzuki Hayate or Skydrive, does anybody have any experience of either/both of these bikes and willing to give an opinion?

Thanks

S3

[jackcorbett]

Yep. After just coming back from Mitoyan the other day, I only have this to say. There are bikes for full size people and there are bikes for people who are not full size. The Skydrive was undersized. The Suzuki Hayate is worth considering along with the PCXi Honda 125 and the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance as all three are built for grownups.

[sausage3]

Yep. After just coming back from Mitoyan the other day, I only have this to say. There are bikes for full size people and there are bikes for people who are not full size. The Skydrive was undersized. The Suzuki Hayate is worth considering along with the PCXi Honda 125 and the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance as all three are built for grownups.

Thanks, so the Hayate is bigger than the Skydrive? Do you know if it has fuel injection too?

[jackcorbett]

I believe it does. Pretty sure in fact. At this point, of the three the Yamaha Nouvo is the only one without fuel injection. I drove a Hayate one time. Looked just about identical to a Yamaha Nouvo.

[sausage3]

Yep. After just coming back from Mitoyan the other day, I only have this to say. There are bikes for full size people and there are bikes for people who are not full size. The Skydrive was undersized. The Suzuki Hayate is worth considering along with the PCXi Honda 125 and the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance as all three are built for grownups.

I just compared the dimensions on Suzuki's Vietnam website (only one I could find in English) and there is hardly any difference between the Skydrive and Hayate, maybe 10mm at most, is it really that noticeable? It is almost exactly the same size as my current airblade which is fine even though I'm 190cm and 87kg and I think the extra 15cc of the skydrive plus its fuel injection will give it more power.

[katabeachbum]

Yep. After just coming back from Mitoyan the other day, I only have this to say. There are bikes for full size people and there are bikes for people who are not full size. The Skydrive was undersized. The Suzuki Hayate is worth considering along with the PCXi Honda 125 and the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance as all three are built for grownups.

I just compared the dimensions on Suzuki's Vietnam website (only one I could find in English) and there is hardly any difference between the Skydrive and Hayate, maybe 10mm at most, is it really that noticeable? It is almost exactly the same size as my current airblade which is fine even though I'm 190cm and 87kg and I think the extra 15cc of the skydrive plus its fuel injection will give it more power.

airblade is not fine for my 179 cm. legroom lacking, compared to Yammy Elegance

Suzuki has powerful 125 aircooled engines and efficient autos. some of them sometimes even faster than yammy E 135cc. But make sure you get an injection model cause they still have some carb models in stock

10 mm difference in wheelbase is different. handles better.

[jackcorbett]

Yep. After just coming back from Mitoyan the other day, I only have this to say. There are bikes for full size people and there are bikes for people who are not full size. The Skydrive was undersized. The Suzuki Hayate is worth considering along with the PCXi Honda 125 and the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance as all three are built for grownups.

I just compared the dimensions on Suzuki's Vietnam website (only one I could find in English) and there is hardly any difference between the Skydrive and Hayate, maybe 10mm at most, is it really that noticeable? It is almost exactly the same size as my current airblade which is fine even though I'm 190cm and 87kg and I think the extra 15cc of the skydrive plus its fuel injection will give it more power.

airblade is not fine for my 179 cm. legroom lacking, compared to Yammy Elegance

Suzuki has powerful 125 aircooled engines and efficient autos. some of them sometimes even faster than yammy E 135cc. But make sure you get an injection model cause they still have some carb models in stock

10 mm difference in wheelbase is different. handles better.

As I said here before, the Nouvo Elegance's seat is 2 inches higher than the old model's, plus this same seat is 2 inches closer to the front wheel. Some will say, "what's two inches?" Well, it makes a huge difference in the handling. The Elegance turns more quickly than the old model and it turns more precisely. What seems like small differences to some makes a huge difference when it comes to overall performance. That's why companies such as Mazda insist on retaining a perfect 50-50 weight distribution front and rear and when it comes to its Miata sportscar in spite of horsepower going up nearly 60 % through the years and the weight of the car going up several hundred pounds, Mazda has insisted on such engineering perfection. I'm sure Yamaha knew what it was doing by changing the measurements just 2 inches the same way Mazda did and this was no accident. The old machine was not a bad handler, but the new one is hugely improved.

[sausage3]

Just found out that the Hayate does not have fuel injection so looks like I'll go for the Skydrive as there is very little difference in size, stats are

Hayate = Width x Lengthx Height

670 x 1,935 x 1,070 mm.

Skydrive = Width x Lengthx Height

655 x 1,885 x 1,040 mm.

Thanks for input guys.

ps...the Yamaha Nouvo stats are as follows 678 x 1,950 x 1,057 so not much difference really considering people often say it's a much bigger bike, maybe the seat height is a lot different.

Edited December 14, 2009 by sausage3

[katabeachbum]

Just found out that the Hayate does not have fuel injection so looks like I'll go for the Skydrive as there is very little difference in size, stats are

Hayate = Width x Lengthx Height

670 x 1,935 x 1,070 mm.

Skydrive = Width x Lengthx Height

655 x 1,885 x 1,040 mm.

Thanks for input guys.

ps...the Yamaha Nouvo stats are as follows 678 x 1,950 x 1,057 so not much difference really considering people often say it's a much bigger bike, maybe the seat height is a lot different.

Interesting info

what are the numbers for Nouvo Elegance 135cc?

[jackcorbett]

Here's the real story. Look up whatever statistics you want. These are two Yamaha Nouvos side by side. The one on the right is the old model 115 c.c. air cooled MX. The one on the right is my Yamaha water cooked 135 c.c. Nouvo Elegance. Mine measures an inch or two taller than the other and according to Wikipedia the difference in seat height is about one inch. Are my eyes deceiving me? I repositioned the two bikes.

Okay.....I said the seat is not only taller, it's also at least 2 inches closer to the front wheel. Note the small gap in the Elegance picture between the front part of the seat and the inside of the cowling.

Now, for my last image. Which is the more stable machine, the 125 c.c. Honda Wave on the left or my Yamaha Elegance on the right? First off the Wave now has 17 inch tires which is why this one sits as tall as my Elegance. But note how spindly the overall appearance is of this Wave. The tires are skinny. There's just not as much bike there. Chassis is not as stout. no luggage room underneath the seat, etc. And the seat is not nearly as comfortable.

Okay.......Look at the numbers as being one inch or two inches different, etc. but I think I've amply demonstrated with these pictures that the present Nouvo Elegance is simply more bike. It handles better because Yamaha designed it to handle better. It is larger, it is stronger and it has the largest displacement in its class. An inch here or a pound there can make a huge difference in performance and the feel of the machine and i'll provide just one more example of that. If I am swimming and I lay back on my back or rest on my stomach I'll float provided I have some air in my lungs but as soon as i start expelling the air in my lungs I'll sink to the bottom. Now I'm not talking a lot of air here--just a bit. That's the kind of performance differences one sees with what seems to be a small difference here and there. We are talking night and day differences. What this means is the Nouvo Elegance is the reigning King in its class...unless the new Honda PCXi takes the title away for the time being. But the Air Blade, the Suzuki Hayate, the Suzuki Sky Dream, the Honda Click, Yamaha Fino and Mio just simply don't measure up and if you don't believe the tale of the tape, then believe these pictures.

[katabeachbum]

hey Jack

I think you forgot the most important difference between Nouvo MX and Elegance. The wheelbase. The swingarm and autobox and therefor the wheelbase is 14cm (almost 6 inches) longer. Makes hel_l of a difference.

Nouvo until 2005, Nouvo MX until now and Nouvo Elegance are 3 different machines. Not only enginewise.

[jackcorbett]

Taking my tape downstairs right now. I mean what can I say? I drove a 115 c.c. MX for three years and it seemed to be all I needed. But now that I have the Elegance it seems like so much more machine, and at the same price. I'd say my MX rode better than an Air Blade but the Air Blade took turns better and had better brakes. Now I've got at least as much straight line stability as I ever had driving my MX with quicker and more precise steering along with about 25 % more horsepower. Engine being water cooled is much quieter. I think Yamaha's constantly improving their machines while the other companies play copy cat. Longer wheelbase means better ride, more straight line stability while the forward positioning of the seat and its increased height provides quicker more responsive steering with no stability penalties to pay. And 135 c'c's trumps 125 cc's any day.

Edited December 14, 2009 by jackcorbett

[LivinLOS]

And 135 c'c's trumps 125 cc's any day.

Not when an auto drive train can take as much as 25% power loss.

If they would just make a spark with good under seat storage.

[jackcorbett]

And 135 c'c's trumps 125 cc's any day.

Not when an auto drive train can take as much as 25% power loss.

If they would just make a spark with good under seat storage.

Some time ago I did a little reading on the web about the new automatic transmission technology, and from what I gleaned there is not as much drive train loss as there is with more traditional automatic transmission setups. In fact I always had stick shifts, on my cars and on my pickup trucks at the farm. My last pickup truck had a 318 V-8 with a five speed automatic overdrive transmission. Now I'm telling you this, we put these pickup trucks through the paces. Oftentimes we'd hook up to two 300 bushel plus wagons loaded with corn and pull them out of the field. Now, a bushel of corn weighs 56 pounds so that's at 600 bushels over 33,000 pounds of corn we were hauling out of the field and that does not include the weight of the two wagons. We often got the wagons stuck in the mud and when we tried to get them unstuck we'd burn out a few clutches over the years. I only had one automatic but I never burnt out the clutch. The automatics withstood the abuse better than the manual transmissions. Also, that 318 small block V-8 got up to 110 miles an hour on a four wheel drive pickup (4 wheel drives weighed a few hundred pounds more than 2 wheel drives) and my pickup truck was still accelerating when I backed it off. That truck was a 1997 model. My first pickup truck was a three quarter ton manual transmission model sans four wheel drive. I'd say the two trucks weighed about the same. But that first truck was a 1978 model. Had the same 318 V-8 small block engine though. But it was a real dog. I'd say the automatic even beat it on fuel economy and it certainly would outrun it. Far as maintenance, no contest with the auto emerging as the clear winner.

So I don't get this 25 % power train loss. Sure, I'd never have one of my Miata's equipped with an automatic. That being said the automatic pickup trucks were just about as powerful and fast as a manual tranmission model. Might get a tad b better fuel economy, though. And CVT technology is more efficient than the traditional automatics. I also want to mention that down on the farm we did a lot of grass mowing and I'm talking miles of it. The cat's meow for yard work would be a Grasshopper or Woods mower with a CVT. Considering that the ability to get through the tallest grass possible was a factor, we would have been using manual transmission mowers if we were experiencing 25 % power train loss. Instead we'd steer with two light weight steering arms. Push them far forward and the mower would travel at maximum speed. Pull them all the way back and you'd go in reverse. Once we experienced mowers such as these we never wanted to go back to manual transmission models.

Edited December 14, 2009 by jackcorbett

[jackcorbett]

hey Jack

I think you forgot the most important difference between Nouvo MX and Elegance. The wheelbase. The swingarm and autobox and therefor the wheelbase is 14cm (almost 6 inches) longer. Makes hel_l of a difference.

Nouvo until 2005, Nouvo MX until now and Nouvo Elegance are 3 different machines. Not only enginewise.

The Nouvo MX parked next to mine had its steering fork locked so I could not straighten its wheels. But I tried the best that I could and I could determine no difference between the two motorbike's wheelbases. However, Wikipedia shows a 10 millimeter difference Wikipedia stats in favor of the Nouvo Elegance. That's less than half an inch.

Edited December 14, 2009 by jackcorbett

[katabeachbum]

hey Jack

I think you forgot the most important difference between Nouvo MX and Elegance. The wheelbase. The swingarm and autobox and therefor the wheelbase is 14cm (almost 6 inches) longer. Makes hel_l of a difference.

Nouvo until 2005, Nouvo MX until now and Nouvo Elegance are 3 different machines. Not only enginewise.

The Nouvo MX parked next to mine had its steering fork locked so I could not straighten its wheels. But I tried the best that I could and I could determine no difference between the two motorbike's wheelbases. However, Wikipedia shows a 10 millimeter difference Wikipedia stats in favor of the Nouvo Elegance. That's less than half an inch.

well, yammys brochure stated 14 cm when i got my second Elegance september 2008.

try mesuring the length of the 2 bikes autoboxes. as I recall thats 14 cm difference too

anyway Elegance was the largest machine available until PCX.

however suzuki 125 is really fast off the mark, faster than yammy 135cc. have an old, red and ugly step auto here. Only Ninja 650 in house bike faster off the line. Skydrive 125 injection should be even faster than step.

[CMX]

I recently rented the Skydrive 125Fi for a day and the Hayate for another. I weigh 100 kilos. Both are automatics.

I found the Skydrive to be a very perky machine. Unlike the older models of 125's - even chain driven, it seems to like 80 km/hr in cruise as a settling point - others I have driven for months (Honda 125's and Suzuki Shogun, for example) 60. I think that this is just my take on the rpm's, but fuel-injection might figure in it as well. For me, the Skydrive seemed however to have the sense of understeer, a combination of my weight (alone) forward, maybe, and the fairly short-coupled 14" front wheel. Quick and v. handy in town - no storage to speak of. And it was stable upward of 90k/h.

Hayate feels bigger. It is not a fully open floored model, but still has inboard feel for the feet. Also a 125 (but NO fuel injection, as noted), it is not as fast and perhaps not as powerful. But the sense of size, which apparently derives from many things, maybe dimensions of seat relative to the feet, seemed considerably larger - and I was "sensing" as hard as I could. It has a relatively enormous storage area, by which I mean full-face plus. Its 16" wheels gave me a greater sense of stability, and yet, paradoxically, that feeling was no greater at speed. Sense of room noticeably bigger - bigger seat too, but not as quick or powerful, as this class goes.

I could not get reliable fuel-use estimates in that time.