Shocking Truth - One In Three Thai Lawmakers Indifferent To Corruption

[webfact]

Shocking truth - one in three lawmakers indifferent to corruption: NACC

The National Anti Corruption Commission has marked 2010 for the awareness campaign mobilising one million people to root out corruption, NACC member Pakdee Pothisiri said on Wednesday.

The widespread graft violations has become a deep-rooted problem plaguing society so much so that many are indifferent to corruption.

In a recent survey commissioned by the Public Sector Anti Corruption Commission, almost one in three lawmakers said they viewed corruption as normal and an intrinsic factor in life.

Almost nine in ten people rated corruption as serious to most serious problem in society. And about six in ten businessmen said they had had first-hand experience about bribery.

Factors attributed to the rise in corruption include patronage system, consumerism, weakened justice system, various dark influences and the people's indiffernce to the problem.

-- The Nation 2009/12/16

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[doomster]

Very shocking indeed I reckoned on more like 9 out of 10

[Mosha]

A friends wife is studying law, he is as straight as a die. His wife was asked by a senior policeman to do something not quite correct. She told them I can't, my husband does not approve. She was told if she wanted to get on in the profession she had better learn how to bend the rules.

[slapout]

Good idea, root out corruption

mobilize 1,000,000 rootors

Downside. finding 1,000,000 honest rootors

the rootors (honest) are overwhelmed by numbers of rootees and the number of troughs.

Being the patient fellow I am I will wait until 2011 for a follow up.

[jerry921]

1 in 3 indifferent to corruption is progress. Of course real progress would need the other 2/3 to stop being in favor...

[Boo]

I'm shocked that anyone would seriously use the word "shocked" at this discovery. I thought it was common knowledge.!?

[junglist]

Not Shocking at all. Should read true but sad.

[d0om4gloom]

I wonder what the dark forces are, the article investigates and reveals them so well. Oops did i just stumble on the reason why corruption here is systemic ?

[TPI]

I wonder what the dark forces are, the article investigates and reveals them so well. Oops did i just stumble on the reason why corruption here is systemic ?

Maybe the "Maoist's" of Nepal know something we don't???? Will it need to come to that!!

[Brunus]

I wonder what the dark forces are, the article investigates and reveals them so well. Oops did i just stumble on the reason why corruption here is systemic ?

I know what they are ............ this guy and his friend

Edited December 16, 2009 by Brunus

[sunsamourai]

ARTICLE :

about six in ten businessmen said they had had first-hand experience about bribery.

Very shocking indeed I reckoned on more like 9 out of 10

meaning only 3 out of 10 businessmen are liars . . . My turn to be in shock !

[doubledoppelganger]

Please explain to me the issues at hand here? What would you rather do, pay an on the spot fine or go through the Western court system?

[rkidlad]

Please explain to me the issues at hand here? What would you rather do, pay an on the spot fine or go through the Western court system?

It's pretty simple really. Corruption is wrong. You can drive like a wanke_r and get away with paying 200 Baht odd on the spot. Or, you could be forced to go to the police station and pay the full 500. If everyone who drove like a wanke_r was forced to pay 500 Baht, the police stations would be better off and higher salaries could be paid.

I know what you're thinking now 'if people were detered from driving like wanke_rs, where would the corrupt police get their money from?' Who cares? People not driving dangerously means less injuries and deaths on the roads. I can't imagine how much it costs for innocent people and the state to pay for people injured or dead from road accidents.

Win, win me thinks. Corruption is just a way of life here. Mai pen rai.

[Briggsy]

ฺBy lawmakers, I assume the article means MP's.

A very short study of what one is required to do to become a Thai MP, particularly one from a provincial area, will teach you that unless you yourself are corrupt, it is very hard to become an MP. There is no Monster Raving Loony Party here.

So, no, not shocking.

[Chang_paarp]

The only shocking result here is that the number is so low.

Telling the truth is another statistic that is a casualty here.

[doomster]

ARTICLE :

about six in ten businessmen said they had had first-hand experience about bribery.

Very shocking indeed I reckoned on more like 9 out of 10

meaning only 3 out of 10 businessmen are liars . . . My turn to be in shock !

maths not your best subject I guess

[wintermute]

Newsflash! : People with hands in the honeypot are not allergic to eating honey.

[A_Traveller]

Please explain to me the issues at hand here? What would you rather do, pay an on the spot fine or go through the Western court system?

Good grief.... Maybe you are being facetious, but just in case. Corruption erodes the base of the rule of law, this can, and I would argue here does, lead to a situation where the law is viewed as an inconvenience as opposed to a framework providing a civil society. End result: a free for all where the weak can, and are exploited.

Regards

Edited December 16, 2009 by A_Traveller

[doomster]

With Fed chairman, Ben Bernacke, just having been named "man of the Year' by time magazine then the Thais are novises

[webfact]

updated story

SHOCKING TRUTH

One in three lawmakers indifferent to corruption: NACC

By The Nation

The National Anti Corruption Commission has marked 2010 for the awareness campaign mobilising one million people to root out corruption, NACC member Pakdee Pothisiri said on Wednesday.

The widespread graft violations has become a deep-rooted problem plaguing society so much so that many are indifferent to corruption.

In a recent survey commissioned by the Public Sector Anti Corruption Commission, almost one in three lawmakers said they viewed corruption as normal and an intrinsic factor in life.

Almost nine in ten people rated corruption as serious to most serious problem in society. And about six in ten businessmen said they had had first-hand experience about bribery.

Factors attributed to the rise in corruption include patronage system, consumerism, weakened justice system, various dark influences and the people's indiffernce to the problem.

The planned awareness campaign will seek to cultivate zero tolerance for corruption among some 500,000 civil servants, about 300,000 professionals including those in the media industry. The remaining 200,000 will comprise people from all walks of life.

The campaign is to culminate in the NACC's plan to host the International Anti Corruption Conference in November.

[Chunkton]

With Fed chairman, Ben Bernacke, just having been named "man of the Year' by time magazine then the Thais are novises

Really? Missed that one, so the master of printing money, zero interest rates, bankster mate and destroying the currency for savers is "Man of the Year",

There again Obama won the Peace Prize whilst overseeing wars of occupation in two countries.

When sanity flies out the door and the shysters control events where do you turn? Sometimes glad I am in Thailand with all its minor annoyances than being an observer suffering the destruction of the west.

[DP25]

1/3? That makes sense. That's about how many Thaksin supporters there are

[ScubaBuddha]

Whats shocking is they found 2 out of 3 claim to have a problem with it.

[brahmburgers]

It must have been an anonymous poll. Thais are known for saying what they should say, rather than what they really think. So that adds another dimension of surprise, that one in 3 would say something that they know is not correct. Yet it's commendable that they would be honest enough to admit something they know is not acceptable.

I would venture that the average Thai, if asked 'what's wrong with corruption?" ...wouldn't have a good answer with any specificity.

Just some of the many reasons why corruption is bad for a country and its people:

>>> it enables inferior contractors to get jobs,

>>> it allows for inferior infrastructure. Besides cracked airport runways, there are myriad other examples: buildings that topple, bridges that crumble, roads that buckle, etc.

>>> it enables some service people (often less qualified) to get jobs, and keeps out others who may do a better service. Taxi/limousine cartels are just one of many examples.

>>> wastes taxpayer money

>>> withholds payments that should go in to the public coffer (are you listening Takki?)

the list goes on....

[snowflake]

We should make a list over all the proffessions that we know are easy to be offered a brown envelope.

(Nope, we would run out of space)...

Sure the 200B on the spot fine is ok, but this is so much more than just that.

Government officials should be clean, in order to make society better. Police should not be so easily corrupted... When people kill other people, someone should go to jail... (not just pay and walk away)...

The brown envelopes have to stop, Thais should not accept them and they should try to have the power to resist them (Cash is King and we know how much Thais love the king)...

Thais love money too much, they might be against corruption, but if they are offered money, they will take it... Money is EVERYTHING FOR THEM!

[Steve2UK]

Interesting to see The Nation finally catch up with a survey reported nearly a month ago in Bangkok Post. The "recent survey" is almost certainly the ABAC/PSACC poll which the Post reported on 20 November - use the search term "graft" on the Post website and you'll find it.

Paraphrasing (necessarily) their report: 2,129 people were polled - consisting of general public, businessmen and members of parliament.

39.8% of the public said they had paid bribes/money under-the-table to government officials and 50.6% of business people had done so. Both groups said that the payments were mainly to police and otherwise to land/district officials.

28.4% of MPs and 30.2% of senators viewed corruption as not unusual when operating a business. 26.5% of MP's and 15.4% of senators thought all governments are corrupt and said that they didn't mind that - if it produced development and improved livelihood for the people.

As I commented at the time on that article (assuming I'm allowed to quote/paraphrase myself?):

Those figures for MPs and Senators are truly shameful - though not exactly a shock. The first figures for regarding corruption as not unusual make you wonder if they were just being realistic - as in "Oh well, it exists whether I find it acceptable or not".

Then you get your answer from the second figures - 26.5% of MPs and 15.4% of Senators said they didn't mind - providing it produced development and improved livelihood for the people. Does it not occur to them that there is less development and a worse livelihood for the people because of corruption? Just what planet are they on?

Returning to the first figures.....so, about 70% of MPs and Senators are under the illusion that corruption is unusual when running a Thai business? Just what planet are they on? Do they ever talk to people in business?

PS> While you're looking at the "graft" search results on the Post's website, take a look at which ministries come top of the graft league table in a report dated 16 November 2009 that includes the word "Local" in its title - two of them with BJT coalition ministers in charge and the third with a PPD coalition minister. Think anything will change?

Edited December 16, 2009 by Steve2UK

[mca]

Then you get your answer from the second figures - 26.5% of MPs and 15.4% of Senators said they didn't mind - providing it produced development and improved livelihood for the people. Does it not occur to them that there is less development and a worse livelihood for the people because of corruption? Just what planet are they on?

I thought that steve. It's like that survey where the Thais surveyed said corruption was ok as long as it benefited the country (or words to that effect). So (as an example from a while back here in Isaan) when a head teacher of a rural school puts the money earmarked for computers for the poor kids in the old back pocket that's a benefit for the country as a whole? Or a blind eye being turned for a fee as health and safety laws are conveniently ignored is good for the LOS?

Bemusement just doesn't enter into it when some of the Thai Puu Yai open their gobs. They make some of the knobends in power in the west sound almost rational.

[surangw]

when dealing with an "official" most thais would feel there is something wrong if no "tea money" is paid

[oevna]

Just some of the many reasons why corruption is bad for a country and its people:

...

the list goes on....

And also, since there is no transparency, there is no way of knowing how much money is wasted, and so no way of assessing where costs can be reigned in. It is completely invisible outside of the scope of the payer and payee, yet it happens at all levels of government and industry.

I'm not so naïve as to think that corruption is unique to Thailand. It is a human problem that happens in all countries. The difference is the degree to which it is visible, and punished when caught.

Since the degree to which corruption is policed is controlled by the small number of people who rule the country, it is in their hands to fix the problem. However, they don't stand to benefit from fixing it (in fact they gain so much from corruption that they stand to lose a lot if they fix it). So while ordinary Thai people may seem to be more corrupt than people from some other cultures, I would say that they are not; they are just resigned to the fact that it is so entrenched in their system that it is easier to play along than to try and fight it.

[moskito]

Please explain to me the issues at hand here? What would you rather do, pay an on the spot fine or go through the Western court system?

It's pretty simple really. Corruption is wrong. You can drive like a wanke_r and get away with paying 200 Baht odd on the spot. Or, you could be forced to go to the police station and pay the full 500. If everyone who drove like a wanke_r was forced to pay 500 Baht, the police stations would be better off and higher salaries could be paid.

I know what you're thinking now 'if people were detered from driving like wanke_rs, where would the corrupt police get their money from?' Who cares? People not driving dangerously means less injuries and deaths on the roads. I can't imagine how much it costs for innocent people and the state to pay for people injured or dead from road accidents.

Win, win me thinks. Corruption is just a way of life here. Mai pen rai.

have you ever thought about how good are road accidents to the economics of Thailand? Ok, maybe some people die in an accident, BUT it gives work to nurses, doctors, people who building hospitals....garages and repairshops, factorys for parts etc etc, even the monks and the coffinmakers are not jobless.

So thanks to the BoB, they mostly shut their eyes and just open it when they are short on money for lunch or a new car or house.

Friend of mine had a good idea and tried the official way without paying bribes....after two years he is still waiting for some papers and for sure he will have to wait ten years more.