German Tourist Killed By Hit-and-run Driver In Pattaya

[gwynt]

Believe me guys, Thais aren't really worst drives in the world.

For sure try driving in Saudi now that is an experience, Thais are bad drivers because they do not get taught the basic rules of the road.

[oops]

if any of you have witnessed getting your license at the Pattaya Branch then you will understand how Thais drive.

Imaging a gold fish brain behind the wheel of a car or a bike and then keep thinking this is a mine field not a road.

Then venture out.

The later it gets imagine that same gold fish brain with alcohol and drugs in it.

Most Thais carry some sort of a weapon and so your either brave or pretty stupid to take them on in a fist fight

Today I had a bike with a male driver a woman on the back and a kid sandwiched between them, cut me off then proceeded to weave in and out to get around the baht bus. 5 times he nearly hit my car. Then finally the woman driver started absusing me for endangering them. Go figure.

Car bigger than bike ........ mmmm

car hits bike ..... mmmm

bike falls over ..... mmmm

car does not fall over .... mmmm

people on bike get hurt .... mmmm

people in car do not get hurt ..... oh

but here car pays for stupid bike driver and damage ..... go figure

Like I said before it is ignorance mostly from farang drivers  more so than from Thai.  I hope you don't have children.  The fact that you even think is amazing.   Yes there are some stupid bike riders out there but mostly they are uneducated and for you to even think of engaging with him while he has an innocent child no matter if your right or not, only suggest your about as ignorant as he was for putting his baby and wife in danger.   Who cares if your truck is bigger... what does that have to with anything why didn't you just slow down and let him go by....did that little bike bruise your ego 

[stephen2009]

Hello all,

Some good points have been brought up here and i wondered if there are any Thai or Thai speaking readers who could actually give us some clues as to what the rules of the road are here, or if there was an English copy of the road regulations.

I have been told that road regulations are based on the UK laws, so signs and road markings should all be the same. But, the way people drive, sometimes i don't know if i should complain or if i am missing something, because my compaints always nearly end up with them trying to run me over! but, I guess I am only a peasant on a motorbike. If only i could afford a VIOS automatic :-)

A couple of examples: the double (wide) white lines at a junctions that mean to stop. In Thailand they are put on the actual main road not the junction. Does this mean that the right of way goes to the person joining the road? I was told they are there to warn oncoming traffic that someone will probably pull out in front of you, but it is such a crazy solution to a problem.

Also when two lanes go into one, we have a big black arrow and small red arrow pointing opposite ways. Obviously big arrow means you have the right of way to the oncoming traffic. Everytime I have seen them in Thailand they infact both have the black arrow pointing up.

anyway i personally would like to know I am in the right when I have a crazy Thai man shouting at me for beeping my horn!

I won't even mention the dangerous situations I have been in because I know you all have been there and because it would only wind me up!

My condolences to the family

[baht&sold]

First, sincere condolences to the family of the poor guy.

On the wider issues raised, just an observation:

The majority typical Expat whinge/response may be largely justified, however, IF ALL ills

in Thailand were corrected as stated by many (education, law enforcement, safety standards,

etc, etc, ad nauseum) one suspects many of those complaining would neither like the changes,

nor be able to afford to live or visit here any more.

Ie: Thailand becomes Singapore (or heaven forbid UK, USA, Sweden, etc) replete with similar

nanny state mentality, taxes to support all the improvements, cost rises and commensurate prices.

It will come (of course) and with it, many who scream/whinge for its haste, will be gone as a result.

(ironically probably to the next least developed country;)

Meanwhile, perhaps take care out there (and in here) and just try to enjoy with caution (- and foresight).

[Garry9999]

Hello all,

Some good points have been brought up here and i wondered if there are any Thai or Thai speaking readers who could actually give us some clues as to what the rules of the road are here, or if there was an English copy of the road regulations.

I have been told that road regulations are based on the UK laws, so signs and road markings should all be the same. But, the way people drive, sometimes i don't know if i should complain or if i am missing something, because my compaints always nearly end up with them trying to run me over! but, I guess I am only a peasant on a motorbike. If only i could afford a VIOS automatic :-)

A couple of examples: the double (wide) white lines at a junctions that mean to stop. In Thailand they are put on the actual main road not the junction. Does this mean that the right of way goes to the person joining the road? I was told they are there to warn oncoming traffic that someone will probably pull out in front of you, but it is such a crazy solution to a problem.

Also when two lanes go into one, we have a big black arrow and small red arrow pointing opposite ways. Obviously big arrow means you have the right of way to the oncoming traffic. Everytime I have seen them in Thailand they infact both have the black arrow pointing up.

anyway i personally would like to know I am in the right when I have a crazy Thai man shouting at me for beeping my horn!

I won't even mention the dangerous situations I have been in because I know you all have been there and because it would only wind me up!

My condolences to the family

http://sunsite.au.ac.th/thailand/road/index.html

[scrabbleking]

Yesterday in Bangkok I twice used a zebra crossing; one of the newer ones with traffic lights. When the lights changed some of the traffic did not even bother to stop, in fact one black Vios increased its speed past an already dangerous velocity to beat me attempting to cross the road, and in doing so almost hit me.

Every time I use these crossings I am extra careful as Thai drivers have little or no regard for the pedestrian.

even worse; when I stopped for a zebra crossing to let a group of people cross the road, the car behind started hunking... Seriously disturbed by this rude and aggressive attitude I stepped out of my car but the Thai guy behind me swirled around my vehicle, gave me the middle finger and sped away almost hitting a young lady...

Do I have to check the Thai traffic regulations again regarding pedestrain crossings in Bangkok because I believe there is something that I don't know or don't understand and which must be basically different from other countries ?!

YES what you don't understand is that youi get out of your car to instruct a Thai an on how to drive in his country your asking for a broken nose or worse.... keep it up and you will soon understand

[humqdpf]

This reminds me of a comment made about pedestrian/zebra crossings in another country - their purpose is not so that the drivers should stop and let people cross the road. They are there so that the cops know where to pick up the bodies.

Anyone visiting many countries (including a few western countries) ought to learn about local traffic customs, such as that traffic lights, crossings, speed limits, one-way streets are not adhered to or enforced in the same way. And, in Thailand, if the driver is from a high status family, it is unlikely he will ever face the music anyway - remember the famous road rage incident some years ago on Sukhumvit? To date, as far as I have heard, no one ever received compensation and the perp never did time despite a number of fatalities and injuries.

[koto]

Yesterday in Bangkok I twice used a zebra crossing; one of the newer ones with traffic lights. When the lights changed some of the traffic did not even bother to stop, in fact one black Vios increased its speed past an already dangerous velocity to beat me attempting to cross the road, and in doing so almost hit me.

Every time I use these crossings I am extra careful as Thai drivers have little or no regard for the pedestrian.

Wait just a minute, I have seen Farangs do the same, it is not always just the Thai and it can happen anywhere on this planet. Sad but true. There are many good Thai and Farang drivers, I would be quite sure at 2:30AM the driver was drunk. Did they say he was Thai?

Casting stones with little or no information can cause problems. Rest his soul.

[MAJIC]

Seems like Farang deaths in one form or another are a regular occurance these days RIP

[koto]

thais are some of the worst drivers in the world....overtaking on a bend on a hill seems to be the normal...running red light seconds after the green has changed...going the opposite way to the traffic flow.

years ago i nearly stepped into the path of a motorbike coming the opposite way down a one way st doing 60...i think only my 6th sense stopped me.

might be more to this than meeets the eye though...slammed into by a speeding pick up on an open street...in pattaya as well.

People that live here should know, road rules are very lax, it is the Thai way, you always look both directions and even then it can be very risky, unless there are speed-bumps and police, there will always be problems. Crossing the road can and does get people injured or killed, never trust the driver, always be on your toes, most people are in a hurry going no-where, texting, not looking, racing, Thai and Farang.

[sbk]

Some more racist comments have been deleted.

Let me remind people of the forum rules

7) Not to post slurs or degrading comments directed towards any group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

8) Not to post extremely negative views of Thailand or derogatory comments directed towards all Thais.

[rkidlad]

thais are some of the worst drivers in the world....overtaking on a bend on a hill seems to be the normal...running red light seconds after the green has changed...going the opposite way to the traffic flow.

years ago i nearly stepped into the path of a motorbike coming the opposite way down a one way st doing 60...i think only my 6th sense stopped me.

might be more to this than meeets the eye though...slammed into by a speeding pick up on an open street...in pattaya as well.

People that live here should know, road rules are very lax, it is the Thai way, you always look both directions and even then it can be very risky, unless there are speed-bumps and police, there will always be problems. Crossing the road can and does get people injured or killed, never trust the driver, always be on your toes, most people are in a hurry going no-where, texting, not looking, racing, Thai and Farang.

When you're in a shopping centre; no one's in a rush to get anywhere. When you're on the road, everyone is in a rush. Logic?

[hippyted]

"zebra crossings" are aiming points for Thai drivers

we should all adopt the swinging strategy,, by this i mean swing some bag (heavy) with bricks in,,, and as we walk across pelican crossings,, swing said bag back and forth with great force,, there by creating a buffer zone,,,,lol

[koto]

I'm so tired of so many Farangs knocking the Thai people. They stay here take their women or boys, save coin and bitch on how the Thais are. It is very sad that this man was killed. Pattaya is a town full of bars and people willing to sell themselves for a better life. Not all but many Farangs come here and think they are all of a suden a star, drink way to much and drive like idots as do some of the Thais. Don't knock the Thai way of life, if you don't like it, the airports are open.

374.bmp

[richieudon]

About time for some road saftey cameras, ie number plate reading, to catch such things and enforce red lights and crossings. I could secure 1000 for 200k and do a reciept for 300 if it helps

What difference would cameras make?

If they caught the guy in the pick and he was Thai what would happen?

Just another dead farang as far as the police are concerned.

You've got to be careful out there, always expect the unexpected

My condolences to the poor guys family

[way2muchcoffee]

I'm so tired of so many Farangs knocking the Thai people. They stay here take their women or boys, save coin and bitch on how the Thais are. It is very sad that this man was killed. Pattaya is a town full of bars and people willing to sell themselves for a better life. Not all but many Farangs come here and think they are all of a suden a star, drink way to much and drive like idots as do some of the Thais. Don't knock the Thai way of life, if you don't like it, the airports are open.

TV is full of whinging folk. If you don't like it the other forums are open.

I reckon the driving here is dangerous. I drive. The level of focus and attention required to stay safe is much higher than I am accustomed to. This is unfortunate as it takes away from the love of a good road trip, but there it is.

Some people have claimed that the nature of driving here is simply Thai culture. I rather disagree. There is no 'culture' about it. There is no tradition. It is simple inconsideration for the lives of others. I can't think of any other way to spin this one. It certainly is not all Thai people. However, the curse of offensive, aggressive, and dangerous driving does seem to afflict a disproportionately high number of people on the roads here.

Edited December 22, 2009 by way2muchcoffee

[koto]

[...]

Today I had a bike with a male driver a woman on the back and a kid sandwiched between them, cut me off then proceeded to weave in and out to get around the baht bus. 5 times he nearly hit my car. Then finally the woman driver started absusing me for endangering them. Go figure.

Car bigger than bike ........ mmmm

car hits bike ..... mmmm

bike falls over ..... mmmm

car does not fall over .... mmmm

people on bike get hurt .... mmmm

people in car do not get hurt ..... oh

but here car pays for stupid bike driver and damage ..... go figure

They had to be somewhere and you were going shopping....go figure.

I have the opposite experience - very often cars drive without any regard to bikes, squeezing them, blocking them, the mentality seems to be "if I have to be stuck in traffic in my car the dam_n bikes have to be stuck too!". If you had given him half a meter he could safely have negotiated past you and have been out of your hair in a few seconds.

[brahmburgers]

A prime reason (but by no means the only reason) why Thais are bad drivers:

Selfishness, thinking only of themselves and what they have to get to. Slowing or stopping to allow anyone to cross, even a group of monks or old ladies, means they're slowed by microseconds from getting to where they're going. Same for cutting cornersor running red lights endlessly. It saves a few microseconds, and no cop is going to ever give a ticket for it, so why not? If it endangers anyone, then it's probably just that other person's bad karma if they get injured or killed.

Be careful slowing or stopping for pedestrians, which many farang drivers are inclined to do, myself included. The downside could be drivers behind mindlessly speeding by, thereby endangering the people you're slowing/stopping for.

condolences to the German fellow, just 2 years younger than me.

[rayong09]

An insane young man came speeding past us in the car leaning from left to right weaving in and out of the traffic on a Jazzed up Honda Wave! I said to my partner do you think he drives like that because he thinks Buddha is waiting for him if he dies. She said no......he's just an idiot.

[moetownblues]

My thoughts go out to the family......

There is almost weekly news in Thailand of tourists or expats being killed or seriously assaulted.

[ignoramus]

How, one wonders, was it determined that the gentleman was crossing the road "to a beer bar"? Brilliant reporting, not.

[craigt3365]

Yesterday in Bangkok I twice used a zebra crossing; one of the newer ones with traffic lights. When the lights changed some of the traffic did not even bother to stop, in fact one black Vios increased its speed past an already dangerous velocity to beat me attempting to cross the road, and in doing so almost hit me.

Every time I use these crossings I am extra careful as Thai drivers have little or no regard for the pedestrian.

Wait just a minute, I have seen Farangs do the same, it is not always just the Thai and it can happen anywhere on this planet. Sad but true. There are many good Thai and Farang drivers, I would be quite sure at 2:30AM the driver was drunk. Did they say he was Thai?

Casting stones with little or no information can cause problems. Rest his soul.

I have to agree with this. Seems we quickly take on the driving habits of the locals. I am amazed at how farangs drive around here. Just as bad as the Thais. I am blown away how bad the farangs drive on scooters. Totally insane...especially given how everything thing is over here.

Also, agree with many other posts. Thai drivers are no way near the worst in the world. Just worse than where we come from....mostly...

[peecee]

Yesterday in Bangkok I twice used a zebra crossing; one of the newer ones with traffic lights. When the lights changed some of the traffic did not even bother to stop, in fact one black Vios increased its speed past an already dangerous velocity to beat me attempting to cross the road, and in doing so almost hit me.

Every time I use these crossings I am extra careful as Thai drivers have little or no regard for the pedestrian.

The fines for traffic violations are a joke, I was injured getting into a taxi as he attempted to drive off when he saw a traffic cop approaching him fror picking up in a (unknown to me) no stopping zone.

His fine was 100Bt & the cop walked away when I complained about my trapped leg in the taxi's door!

[Nelorie]

I was in Pattaya about 6 weeks ago. I was as the left hand turn on the beach road entrance to Walking street. I was walking with my 2 friends. I slowed down to look at them to see if they were ok. Anyway, the traffic was a nightmare as usual there, and it was slow. I was on the road, but the footpath there is very crowded and many people were walking on the road. The driver of a pickup obviously got upset, and drove right up behind me. His bullbar touched my back. Then the engine revved and he put the car in first gear. I was knocked flying onto the road. He then sped off to a stop light up the road. No great gain for him. It was a deliberate hit and run. There are so many people around that area at night.

I complained to the tourist police the next night. they are a wast of time. They sit at the table at the beginning of walking street. Doing nothing. What they should do is have someone on 'point duty' there. They could rotate times.

In the end, I can not figure what the advantage to the driver was. Merely to deliberately knock me over and then get held up at the red light just down the road. It is a CRAZY way to think. My back was injured, skin off, knee slightly wrenched, and very sore muscles the next day. And this resulted from a standing start. I can not imagine what the German tourist went through being hit at a high seed.

[Able]

Having just spent the past week covering thousands of extreemly repetative miles on the Thai roads, in particular in the Bangkok & Pattaya area it amazes me there are not wrecked cars strew all over the side of the roads every few kilometers. Some of the pickup, minibus and bus drivers in particular are fatal accidents waiting to happen.

No where near as bad as the majority of the middle east but still a long way from safe over here.

Deepest condolences to the family and freinds of this gentleman.

[dumball]

In my experience Thai drivers have no respect what so ever of anything on the road. Ive seen drivers purposely aim for dogs, drive carelessly close to the bumper of the car in front, try to ram other cars out the way. I consider myself a good careful driver, but when driving here in Thailand my nerves and wits are tested to the fullest! I guess they all think there invulnerable and good old Buddha will take care of them because they got that special amulet given to them by the monk who said if you wear this you can never die!

could easily be a Farlang driver, last year in Pattaya I saw a Farlang pickup truck driver hit 2-3 cars and 5 or 6 motor bikes speeding down 3rd road on the wrong side of the street near the intersection of South Pattaya road in front of Tonys Resort Spa, he would have kept going but the engine was damaged and the tires went flat. There were 3 guys in the pickup truck and would not get out for about 30 minutes while the police and everyone was standing there waiting, finally the radiator burst and the vehicle caught fire they busted out the rear window and jumped out, all 3 totally drunk (the doors were smashed in and would not open). Fortunately no one died, later I heard they got off with a fine, not sure how much...

Wow , must have been up all night dreaming that concoction up , all that damage to the pick-up , then the rad burst and it caught fire , did anybody call the fire chief ?

[Jonathanpattaya]

R.I.P.

Condolences to the family and friends of the unfortunate victim.

[IvanDobsky]

Having just spent the past week covering thousands of extreemly repetative miles on the Thai roads, in particular in the Bangkok & Pattaya area it amazes me there are not wrecked cars strew all over the side of the roads every few kilometers. Some of the pickup, minibus and bus drivers in particular are fatal accidents waiting to happen.

No where near as bad as the majority of the middle east but still a long way from safe over here.

Deepest condolences to the family and freinds of this gentleman.

Sympathy to the family.

The roads are more dangerous than most of us are used to, and 12000 deaths on the roads per year is much higher than most of us are used to. Whether driving or not, be careful on the roads people.

[zalbs]

In my experience Thai drivers have no respect what so ever of anything on the road. Ive seen drivers purposely aim for dogs, drive carelessly close to the bumper of the car in front, try to ram other cars out the way. I consider myself a good careful driver, but when driving here in Thailand my nerves and wits are tested to the fullest! I guess they all think there invulnerable and good old Buddha will take care of them because they got that special amulet given to them by the monk who said if you wear this you can never die!

this!

friend of mine once asked the driver why not have safety belts, he said: no need and pointed at the buddha amulet, lol

[Tanaka]

Yesterday in Bangkok I twice used a zebra crossing; one of the newer ones with traffic lights. When the lights changed some of the traffic did not even bother to stop, in fact one black Vios increased its speed past an already dangerous velocity to beat me attempting to cross the road, and in doing so almost hit me.

Every time I use these crossings I am extra careful as Thai drivers have little or no regard for the pedestrian.

About time they started fining 1,000 Baht and cancel licences for ignoring crossings and pedestrians. I have on occasion kicked a door and that works

I use a knuckle iron.