Where Do You Feel Mexican Food Would Best Be Categorized?

[Jingthing]

In the food forum area here, there is some controversy about whether Mexican food belongs in the western food section or the international food section. Here is the place to vote on that issue. Happy voting, amigos.

[moe666]

Excuse me why wouldn't Mexican food be in the western section. I live in New Mexico and we have some of he best mexican food around.

Although Mexican from mexico can be quite different than mexican from the US.

Keep it in the western food section or start a Mexico section, Texmex section, New Mexican section, California Section all of these are a different take on a few of the same ingredients.

[surfscuba]

my friend from arizona would say they had the best mex, but azmex, new mex mex, texmex, etc., are as mexican as california rolls is japanese and egg rolls and chop suey is chinese.

it should be international foods and not euro-centric and anglo-centric western foods like burgers and fish and chips and brautwurst.yuck!

[Jingthing]

My reasons for categorizing Mexican as international, not western --

the core of the cuisine is from the native Indians who brought to it corn, corn tortillas, bean paste, and chilies even in ancient times

These Indians did NOT come from Europe, in ancient times they came from ASIA

this mixed with the European conquest of Mexico, French, Spanish, etc.

Spain made a big mark. Spanish cuisine itself has strong eastern, Arabic, influences, thus the rice

Mix it all up, you have one of the most amazing FUSION cuisines in the world in Mexico. (Viva!)

When I think western, I think Europe.

Some argue Mexico belongs in western because it is in the western hemisphere. But hemispheres mean nothing in this argument. France, Germany, Italy, and points east, including Australia are NOT in the western hemisphere, and few would argue that all of those countries feature western cuisine.

I accept there are arguments for either category. I just think between the two choices, western and international, international is the better fit.

Edited December 28, 2009 by Jingthing

[garyh]

Are you talking about actual Mexican food or the texmex etc varieties that the amercans eat? because they are not the same thing.

[Ulysses G.]

There is NO decent Mexican food to be found in the entirety of Bangkok.

There are 3 new Mexican restaurants in Bangkok that all have good reputations and you do not mention any of them. Your opinion does not inspire confidence in my heart.

[bkkjames]

I see JT on his daily poll fetish has attempted to start one in the general section which clearly should be in the food section.

Why I wonder?

[kikoman]

Why not just label the forum "African Food", that is where we all came from, why start your history of mankind with Asia.

Amerindian foods from the indigenous population food discovery, are the back bone of European food, Tomatoes , what would Italian food be without them, Potatoes back bone of Irish, U.S. meat and potato cuisine,Chiles are used in most cuisines world wide,

Western Cuisines could not get by a day without

Papaya

Squash

sweet potato

avocado

beans

tomato

Chile

corn

vanilla,

chocolate

peanuts

What would the U.S. holiday Thanksgiving be without the Turkey and the other indigenous foods mentioned.

What is considered the West? Yes the Western Hemisphere !

Western Thought is usually associated with the cultural traditions that traces its origin to Greek thought and Christian Religion, Which cornerstones are, Deductive reasoning, Rule of Law, Monotheism.

Also the original definition of the Western World originally meant Western Europe. But once Europeans colonized the world, any area that had a lot of European immigration eventually came to be included in the definition.

Basically it means any country and/or geographical region who's culture is "Western" ( heavily influenced by Western Europe). Is considered a Western Culture.

One should distinguish "Western Society" from the social- economic term "First World" in that the example of South America is sometimes mentioned as a Western Society,but much of it is poor.

Now How dose the western world include Mexico ?

Mexico has been a Democracy since 1917.

Mexico follows the Rule of Law.

Mexico is a Christian Country (Monotheism)

Mexico has the worlds 13th largest economy.

(

Mexico is a member of the North American Union, NAFTA

Mexico has the worlds Richest man,Carlos Slim Helu' .

Mexico is in the Western Hemisphere.

Most of the food termed Mexican food originated in the U.S. border states

Most of the cuisine of Mexico is not Indigenous in origin, the food of the lower and middle class in Mexico Includes Indigenous foods. The vast majority of the Mexican population about 80 %.

Cheers:

Edited December 29, 2009 by kikoman

[IanForbes]

Mexican food ranks right up there with with all other sustenance foods that poor people eat. Tortillas and beans hardly classifies on an international cuisine list.

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

Mexican food ranks right up there with with all other sustenance foods that poor people eat. Tortillas and beans hardly classifies on an international cuisine list.

Spoken like a true Brit.

Of course, offal, shepherd's pie and Scottish haggis is what great cuisine is all about!

[wintermute]

Mexican food ranks right up there with with all other sustenance foods that poor people eat. Tortillas and beans hardly classifies on an international cuisine list.

Spoken like a true Brit.

Of course, offal, shepherd's pie and Scottish haggis is what great cuisine is all about!

Fried snicker's bars is the pinnacle of U.K. cuisine.

[bkkjames]

Mexican food ranks right up there with with all other sustenance foods that poor people eat. Tortillas and beans hardly classifies on an international cuisine list.

Spoken like a true Brit.

Of course, offal, shepherd's pie and Scottish haggis is what great cuisine is all about!

Fried snicker's bars is the pinnacle of U.K. cuisine.

If you are gonna take the p at someone, it helps if you know where they are from. Just my friendly advice.

[gregb]

I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't consider this Western food. Would Canadian food be considered Western? If so, then why not Mexican?

I grew up in the states eating Mexican food, and it is very much Western. While those who are particularly pedantic may argue the roots go back to indigenous civilizations instead of european civilizations, the fact is those foods and preparation methods have been heavily adopted by most of the anglo community. There has been so much blending of Mexican culture (at least in the sense of food) into the US it is very difficult to distinguish them at this point.

Or are you going to disenfranchise the entire Southwestern US and tell them they don't qualify as Western anymore? They aren't European enough for you?

Unfortunately, there are no good Mexican restaraunts in Thailand. I tried Tacos and Salsa on the recommendation of a friend, and while the food was probably as close as one could approximate in Thailand, I found the portions small and the high prices gave me a heart attack. I don't expect anything to compare with what I was able to get in LA, San Diego or Tiajuana, but if I'm going to drop 1000 baht for 2 people I might as well just spend a little more and hit a hotel buffet.

Mexican food is meant to be cheap and served at a roadside stall. There is no excuse for paying more than 10 baht a meter/day in rent. Most of the ingredients can be sourced locally, or imported and grown locally, although the initial seeds may need to be smuggled in, and it could take a few years to grow out the crop. Things like beef may be slightly different, but the seasonings can hide that to a large degree.

If I had any interest in owning a restaurant, that is how I would do it. As it is, I hate cooking, and I only make Mexican food myself once or twice a year. I'm forced to use those awful Donitas tortillas and McCormicks taco seasoning because that is the only thing you can buy here, but at least I can feed 2 people pseudo Mexican food for only a couple hundred baht.

I agree. Given the poor choice and high prices of Mexican food here in Thailand, Taco Bell is about the best you could hope for. Too bad the closest one is in Singapore, and their menu is quite restricted.

[bonobo]

Mexican food ranks right up there with with all other sustenance foods that poor people eat. Tortillas and beans hardly classifies on an international cuisine list.

And noodles, rice, and bread do not fit into the same train of thought?  Guess that knocks out Chinese, Italian, and French out of the "international cuisine list" as well.

[IanForbes]

Mexican food ranks right up there with with all other sustenance foods that poor people eat. Tortillas and beans hardly classifies on an international cuisine list.

Spoken like a true Brit.

Of course, offal, shepherd's pie and Scottish haggis is what great cuisine is all about!

I'm not a Brit. I'm a Canadian. We are more likely to dine on salmon, halibut, prawns, crab, or one of the many kinds of wild meat: roast venison, moose, wild sheep, caribou, elk, or even beaver. I've always enjoyed eating beaver. It's non fattening.

Then we can toss in wild berries and sweet corn.

[garyh]

I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't consider this Western food. Would Canadian food be considered Western? If so, then why not Mexican?

I grew up in the states eating Mexican food, and it is very much Western. While those who are particularly pedantic may argue the roots go back to indigenous civilizations instead of european civilizations, the fact is those foods and preparation methods have been heavily adopted by most of the anglo community. There has been so much blending of Mexican culture (at least in the sense of food) into the US it is very difficult to distinguish them at this point.

Or are you going to disenfranchise the entire Southwestern US and tell them they don't qualify as Western anymore? They aren't European enough for you?

Unfortunately, there are no good Mexican restaraunts in Thailand. I tried Tacos and Salsa on the recommendation of a friend, and while the food was probably as close as one could approximate in Thailand, I found the portions small and the high prices gave me a heart attack. I don't expect anything to compare with what I was able to get in LA, San Diego or Tiajuana, but if I'm going to drop 1000 baht for 2 people I might as well just spend a little more and hit a hotel buffet.

Mexican food is meant to be cheap and served at a roadside stall. There is no excuse for paying more than 10 baht a meter/day in rent. Most of the ingredients can be sourced locally, or imported and grown locally, although the initial seeds may need to be smuggled in, and it could take a few years to grow out the crop. Things like beef may be slightly different, but the seasonings can hide that to a large degree.

If I had any interest in owning a restaurant, that is how I would do it. As it is, I hate cooking, and I only make Mexican food myself once or twice a year. I'm forced to use those awful Donitas tortillas and McCormicks taco seasoning because that is the only thing you can buy here, but at least I can feed 2 people pseudo Mexican food for only a couple hundred baht.

I agree. Given the poor choice and high prices of Mexican food here in Thailand, Taco Bell is about the best you could hope for. Too bad the closest one is in Singapore, and their menu is quite restricted.

Taco Bell etc sell Texmex, this is not Mexican food!

[IanForbes]

Good post, Gregb. I just like to stir things up a bit and have a little fun, but I have to agree with your assessment. Mexican food is definitely western and it ranks similar to the simple Thai foods that we get here. It SHOULD cost no more than a similar Thai meal... other than the beef which is rather tough in Thailand. But, good beef is probably not available to the poor of Mexico either.;

[wintermute]

Good post, Gregb. I just like to stir things up a bit and have a little fun, but I have to agree with your assessment. Mexican food is definitely western and it ranks similar to the simple Thai foods that we get here. It SHOULD cost no more than a similar Thai meal... other than the beef which is rather tough in Thailand. But, good beef is probably not available to the poor of Mexico either.;

That's why I get a good chuckle whenever Mexican restaurants here are charging an arm and a leg for an enchilada. Aside from a very few specific ingredients everything can be made with local vegetables and meat Literally 90% of what you need to make great mexican food is found here already.

[Slaps]

Mexican food ranks right up there with with all other sustenance foods that poor people eat. Tortillas and beans hardly classifies on an international cuisine list.

Spoken like a true Brit.

Of course, offal, shepherd's pie and Scottish haggis is what great cuisine is all about!

I'm not a Brit. I'm a Canadian. We are more likely to dine on salmon, halibut, prawns, crab, or one of the many kinds of wild meat: roast venison, moose, wild sheep, caribou, elk, or even beaver. I've always enjoyed eating beaver. It's non fattening.

Then we can toss in wild berries and sweet corn.

With you on the beaver bit

Edited December 29, 2009 by Slaps

[Jingthing]

I see JT on his daily poll fetish has attempted to start one in the general section which clearly should be in the food section.

Why I wonder?

Please THINK before you post, OK? There is no appropriate forum among the food forums to post this. To put it in western would create a bias, as would putting it in international. There is currently a controversy in the western forum about how to categorize Mexican food. A mod mentioned how a poll may be helpful to decide this. Thus, the poll. If we get a definitive "mod ruling" Mexican related posts in the food forums can they be moved by mods to the decided-upon correct forum. That doesn't mean there is a perfect answer for this, it is just a matter of organization CONVENIENCE for the forums. This poll may be considered as a way to arrive at the most popular answer to this.

Edited December 29, 2009 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't consider this Western food. Would Canadian food be considered Western? If so, then why not Mexican?

Yes, Canadian is western. That is because the overwhelmingly predominant influence is from EUROPE. I have already explained why Mexican cuisine, being much more fusion from native Indians and the Middle East via Spain is NOT western because the overwhelmingly predominant influence is NOT from Europe.

[bendejo]

Mexico is in the Western Hemisphere, the food is composed of ingredients from same. Can't get much more Western than that. If you think Mexican cuisine originated in Spain you have some learning to do.

Going back and considering natives of the Americas as Asians is really stretching it (though I could see PRC using that for propaganda purposes), might as well go back to the Garden of Eden and declare us all Jews.

Pretty dumb idea for a thread.

[Jingthing]

Mexico is in the Western Hemisphere, the food is composed of ingredients from same. Can't get much more Western than that. If you think Mexican cuisine originated in Spain you have some learning to do.

Going back and considering natives of the Americas as Asians is really stretching it (though I could see PRC using that for propaganda purposes), might as well go back to the Garden of Eden and declare us all Jews.

Pretty dumb idea for a thread.

Hemispheres are not the determinant of the classifications. WESTERN EUROPE is NOT in the western hemisphere and most people consider EUROPEAN cuisine to be the most western of western cuisines. Neither is Australia. So you argument is simply false. I never said Mexican food originated in Spain. It is sleazy to twist people's thoughts that radically. I did say Mexican is a FUSION cuisine with different influences. Some were European, in my view, MOST were not. Spanish food does have middle eastern influences and some of those influences did emerge in Mexican cuisine via the Spanish conquest of Mexico.

BTW, of course Mexico is in the western hemisphere. If you think that is the reason to call their food western, well we must now kick out French, German, Scandanavian, Italian, etc. etc. from the western food category. That would be absurd.

Edited December 29, 2009 by Jingthing

[bkkjames]

I see JT on his daily poll fetish has attempted to start one in the general section which clearly should be in the food section.

Why I wonder?

Please THINK before you post, OK? There is no appropriate forum among the food forums to post this. To put it in western would create a bias, as would putting it in international. There is currently a controversy in the western forum about how to categorize Mexican food. A mod mentioned how a poll may be helpful to decide this. Thus, the poll. If we get a definitive "mod ruling" Mexican related posts in the food forums can they be moved by mods to the decided-upon correct forum. That doesn't mean there is a perfect answer for this, it is just a matter of organization CONVENIENCE for the forums. This poll may be considered as a way to arrive at the most popular answer to this.

Nothing to think about JT. Put your little poll in the International Food Section - it's as international a Filipino or African. Putting it in general only says you are looking to keep the mex debate going.

Needless to say, you already have two Mods that comment on Mexican food on a regular basis in the Western food section. If they found it appropriate to move it they would have.

Can't wait for tomorrow's poll.

[Jingthing]

I see JT on his daily poll fetish has attempted to start one in the general section which clearly should be in the food section.

Why I wonder?

Please THINK before you post, OK? There is no appropriate forum among the food forums to post this. To put it in western would create a bias, as would putting it in international. There is currently a controversy in the western forum about how to categorize Mexican food. A mod mentioned how a poll may be helpful to decide this. Thus, the poll. If we get a definitive "mod ruling" Mexican related posts in the food forums can they be moved by mods to the decided-upon correct forum. That doesn't mean there is a perfect answer for this, it is just a matter of organization CONVENIENCE for the forums. This poll may be considered as a way to arrive at the most popular answer to this.

Nothing to think about JT. Put your little poll in the International Food Section - it's as international a Filipino or African. Putting it in general only says you are looking to keep the mex debate going.

Needless to say, you already have two Mods that comment on Mexican food on a regular basis in the Western food section. If they found it appropriate to move it they would have.

Can't wait for tomorrow's poll.

There is a mod there who thinks it belongs in International and stated clearly he is open to doing it how the members want. A poll tells us what the members want. Simple as that, deal with it. If you don't like the results, campaign for your side or something instead of resorting to lowbrow personal attacks.

Good arguments (short of the flawed hemisphere argument which is debunked) can be made for either side. So, it does make sense to organize this the way the majority wants.

Current results, a vast majority consider Mexican in the INTERNATIONAL FOOD FORUM the better fit.

Edited December 29, 2009 by Jingthing

[bkkjames]

I see JT on his daily poll fetish has attempted to start one in the general section which clearly should be in the food section.

Why I wonder?

Please THINK before you post, OK? There is no appropriate forum among the food forums to post this. To put it in western would create a bias, as would putting it in international. There is currently a controversy in the western forum about how to categorize Mexican food. A mod mentioned how a poll may be helpful to decide this. Thus, the poll. If we get a definitive "mod ruling" Mexican related posts in the food forums can they be moved by mods to the decided-upon correct forum. That doesn't mean there is a perfect answer for this, it is just a matter of organization CONVENIENCE for the forums. This poll may be considered as a way to arrive at the most popular answer to this.

Nothing to think about JT. Put your little poll in the International Food Section - it's as international a Filipino or African. Putting it in general only says you are looking to keep the mex debate going.

Needless to say, you already have two Mods that comment on Mexican food on a regular basis in the Western food section. If they found it appropriate to move it they would have.

Can't wait for tomorrow's poll.

There is a mod there who thinks it belongs in International and stated clearly he is open to doing it how the members want. A poll tells is what the members want. Simple as that, deal with it. If you don't like the results, campaign for your side or something instead of resorting to lowbrow personal attacks.

Insecurities aside, it was not a personal attack JT - I like your Polls (misplaced as they may be). The coin one was cool.

[sabaijai]

The choices show an obvious bias by adding the phrase "in Thailand" and by adding the invalid choice "Those are the only choices, sorry!"

Nonetheless I voted for Western, so that's one mod in the Western camp

[teatree]

The term 'Western' originally comes from Europe being to the west and Asia to the east. Nowadays any country that has a culture overwhelmingly influenced by a 'Western' country , Australia or NZ for example, can be referred to as Western. Mexico wouldn't be categorised as Western as it has a strong native influence in its culture.

[Jingthing]

The choices show an obvious bias by adding the phrase "in Thailand" and by adding the invalid choice "Those are the only choices, sorry!"

Nonetheless I voted for Western, so that's one mod in the Western camp

Foul. Those choices are the currently existing names of the food forums! Those were the choices. There is no bias. It was 100 percent to the point and objective.

Can I ask you, will you respect the results of this unbiased poll? If not, why not?

Another mod said he WOULD respect poll results. However, you seem to be imagining a bias in the poll that DOES NOT EXIST, so I reckon that will be your reasoning to ignore it. BTW, I expected different results.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Food-Thailand-f82.html

BTW, Mexico is a western country. However, I think their food mostly is not.

Edited December 29, 2009 by Jingthing

[kikoman]

There is a bias concerning this poll ,the choices , the wording, The general forum instead of the food forum..The targeting of only Mexican food!

The indication that a couple of Mods back the change of forums.

The number of post you post, influences the outcome.

The number of US members far out number the number of Mexican members.

This poll is about as fair as an Iranian election!

Cheers: