A Historical Analysis Of Why Thailand Likes America

[Johpa]

I tried to track down some info online and I could find that Tony Poe retired in Chiang Mai and lived there until 1992, when he, his Hmong wife and four children moved to California, where he later died.

Strange expats Chiang Mai weren't telling lies and legends about him in the early '90s. I did meet William Young, another spook who worked in Laos, whose missionary family stretches back several generations in Chiang Mai.

Poe was a footnote to history, a very colorful footnote, but a minor player. Good books on the subject of Thailand and Laos during that era include McCoy's seminal "Politics of Heroin" and Roger Warner's "Backfire". Backfire focuses on one of the real major players, Bill Lair, confident and protector of His Majesty the King, and Doc Weldon who has written his own memoirs "Tragedy in Paradise".

The Young family, I think it is four generations now and still based in Chiang Mai, continues to work for the betterment of the highland minorities in the region. They were missionaries who happened to be one of the few sources of information in the highlands, information that they passed on to US intelligence officials, but they were not exactly clandestine operatives (except perhaps during WWII) that the term "spook" invokes. That family's significance in Thailand, and Burma, over time has probably been greater than any other single Western family.

[chiangmaikelly]

So how do you figure out historically if the Thais like Americans? Or more accurately how do you measure it?

And who are the Thais?

Lump business and government together and ask yourself who is Thailand's largest trading partner both in imports and exports?

Which nationality has the largest number of people working here in terms of gross dollars/baht?

Which country has the largest diplomatic mission?

Which country has the largest number of business ventures here?

Which country provides Thailand with the largest number of entertainment vehicles both in movies and songs?

Which country provides the largest number of Thai students a place to go to school outside of Thailand?

Which country has the largest outside of Thailand population?

Which country has the highest name recognition?

What restaurant food other than Thai food sells the best in Thailand?

Find a teacher who is not Western. I picked a guy from Ghana. Have him ask his government students in high school (not in a tourist area) which countries they can name. Write those names on the board. Then ask the students which country they like the best? I did it this way because the majority of Thais do not go past high school and the majority of Thais go to government schools not in tourist areas. What do you think the answer is?

Maybe I missed something. If I did let me know. I won't post the answers to the above questions because I am tired of being called a liar but I would be more than happy to read any answers.

[Ulysses G.]

Give us a break. Why don't you list every time someone complains about Thailand.

So, I conclude there are no examples. It's all in the eyes of the beholder and reader.

Lets play your silly game. Since it is supposed to be against the rules to bash countries on Thai Visa most threads and most posts have eventually dissapeared and I don't feel like looking for what's left, but if you go to the Outside the Box forum:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=3219587

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=3104706

Here are two threads just chock full of anti American posts that prove you are full of it.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[LaoPo]

Give us a break. Why don't you list every time someone complains about Thailand.

So, I conclude there are no examples. It's all in the eyes of the beholder and reader.

Lets play your silly game. Since it is supposed to be against the rules to bash countries on Thai Visa most threads and most posts have eventually dissapeared and I don't feel like looking for what's left, but if you go to the Outside the Box forum:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=3219587

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=3104706

Here are two threads just chock full of anti American posts that prove you are full of it.

sigh.....

1. I didn't see nor read the 2 links you gave; so I didn't post comments also; apart from that it's not on the open forum.

These topics are on a forum not accessible by lots of members and also "open" to more "battle" than the open forum.

But again, I didn't read them. Juts noticed them for the first time.

2. What nationality do the 2 posters have who opened those threads? I know, but do you? So, WHO is looking for a fight and provoking others ? Not me.

3. I didn't participate in those 2 topics so I didn't flame or bash any members nor any country nor group.

Just fast-scrolling through the 9 pages of the first topic I see that you are a very frequent poster yourself. Didn't read anything yet though.

Sorry, but I don't have the time now to scroll through another 20 pages of the 2nd topic.

4. I will refrain from more comments as I explained before in order not to disturb the OP's topic any further and maybe you should too; maybe we can "meet" elsewhere?

LaoPo

[Ulysses G.]

All of this stuff has been on the open forum over and over again, but much of it was eventually deleted as it violates the rules. You have all the samples you want here and the nationalities of the OPs really don't matter. The posts do.

Enough silliness.

[caf]

I get upset because it's not my fault and I am getting blamed for it. The Brits and the French were in control of SEA until after WW II. During WW II the SEA countries were up in the mountains eating jungle food and planning the revolution. They made Lao Kao and talked about how bad the Brits and French had been for the past 200 years.

Some smart ass housewife named Betty decided that the Brits should not have Thailand along with Burma and that started my troubles. The OSS moved in and took over when the Brits left Thailand. The same thing happened when the French left Vietnam. The CIA moved in and that started my troubles there.

I can understand why the Brits and French did not want to leave SEA. Expats just like you and me had a lot of money invested in businesses in SEA and the local boys wanted the businesses. No they didn't want to pay for them. That is what communism is all about. You take from the rich and give to the communist party.

But it wasn't my fault. I didn't do a darn thing to encourage it one way or the other.

The British and the French left and I got drafted. I didn't want to get drafted.

Slavery! YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT SLAVERY! Slavery was me getting drafted. If I gave any lip to the captain I got thrown in jail. In my case he even tried to kill me. I am not making this stuff up. I told the man I was already working 15 hours a day and I was not going to get up an hour early and get him a darn weather report when all he had to do was look outside and see if it was raining or not. He tried to have me killed. Assigned me to be a tunnel rat and pre dated my orders. Tunnel rats lived by the hour, not days, weeks or months.

So when someone bashes me for being an American I get upset. I didn't want to be Rambo. I wanted to sit in the hallway in college beneath the stairs and watch the girls with short skirts walk up the stairs.

I am tired of bailing Europe out of its failed wars.

Americans are isolationist people. If they get a chance to vote on the issues they always vote isolationist. They just want to be left alone.

Cuba is an American problem, I can deal with that. Cuba stole Coca cola. Cuba stole all the mafia casinos in Havana. Cuba shut down all the American owned whore houses in Havana. That's bad stuff. I still get upset about it.

You all expect me to solve your problems because you don't have the cash to take care of Pakistan. What country created the problems in Pakistan? What country created the problems in the Middle East and Africa?

What famous statesman decided to partition the countries in Africa and the Middle East by borders instead of by tribes? I'll give you a hint he wasn't a Yank.

I think this rather long post shows two things.

1. The op, whatever his nationality, is not making a historical analysis. He has a chip on his shoulder about his "troubles" and says Thailand owes him big time. Rather than get upset as a keyboard warrior he should spend the time reading up on the sources already given to him. Only then can he claim to be analysing history.

2. I don't see America or American bashing per se. I see posters irritated by Americans themselves making comments like:

"I am an average American. I am not a banker or broker. I think those people are crooks. I think the democrats and republicans are crooks. I am the average American. I gave up. The country is too messed up by trying to take care of other people's problems. I came to Thailand. I came to Thailand because Thailand owes me big time.

"Do you know how much money and bodily fluids I spent here in the 60's? No you don't but it was a lot. I imagine I have relatives all over the place. It's about time they started taking care of Uncle Kelly. "

I don't speak for Laopo but I can see where he is coming from. Some Americans do seem to have a strange view of themselves and their importance. That may encourage posters to be irritated by the posts but it does not mean they are bashing posters. No evidence for that at all.

Lighten up guys.

caf

[dttk0009]

I get upset because it's not my fault and I am getting blamed for it. The Brits and the French were in control of SEA until after WW II. During WW II the SEA countries were up in the mountains eating jungle food and planning the revolution. They made Lao Kao and talked about how bad the Brits and French had been for the past 200 years.

Some smart ass housewife named Betty decided that the Brits should not have Thailand along with Burma and that started my troubles. The OSS moved in and took over when the Brits left Thailand. The same thing happened when the French left Vietnam. The CIA moved in and that started my troubles there.

I can understand why the Brits and French did not want to leave SEA. Expats just like you and me had a lot of money invested in businesses in SEA and the local boys wanted the businesses. No they didn't want to pay for them. That is what communism is all about. You take from the rich and give to the communist party.

But it wasn't my fault. I didn't do a darn thing to encourage it one way or the other.

The British and the French left and I got drafted. I didn't want to get drafted.

Slavery! YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT SLAVERY! Slavery was me getting drafted. If I gave any lip to the captain I got thrown in jail. In my case he even tried to kill me. I am not making this stuff up. I told the man I was already working 15 hours a day and I was not going to get up an hour early and get him a darn weather report when all he had to do was look outside and see if it was raining or not. He tried to have me killed. Assigned me to be a tunnel rat and pre dated my orders. Tunnel rats lived by the hour, not days, weeks or months.

So when someone bashes me for being an American I get upset. I didn't want to be Rambo. I wanted to sit in the hallway in college beneath the stairs and watch the girls with short skirts walk up the stairs.

I am tired of bailing Europe out of its failed wars.

Americans are isolationist people. If they get a chance to vote on the issues they always vote isolationist. They just want to be left alone.

Cuba is an American problem, I can deal with that. Cuba stole Coca cola. Cuba stole all the mafia casinos in Havana. Cuba shut down all the American owned whore houses in Havana. That's bad stuff. I still get upset about it.

You all expect me to solve your problems because you don't have the cash to take care of Pakistan. What country created the problems in Pakistan? What country created the problems in the Middle East and Africa?

What famous statesman decided to partition the countries in Africa and the Middle East by borders instead of by tribes? I'll give you a hint he wasn't a Yank.

I think this rather long post shows two things.

1. The op, whatever his nationality, is not making a historical analysis. He has a chip on his shoulder about his "troubles" and says Thailand owes him big time. Rather than get upset as a keyboard warrior he should spend the time reading up on the sources already given to him. Only then can he claim to be analysing history.

2. I don't see America or American bashing per se. I see posters irritated by Americans themselves making comments like:

"I am an average American. I am not a banker or broker. I think those people are crooks. I think the democrats and republicans are crooks. I am the average American. I gave up. The country is too messed up by trying to take care of other people's problems. I came to Thailand. I came to Thailand because Thailand owes me big time.

"Do you know how much money and bodily fluids I spent here in the 60's? No you don't but it was a lot. I imagine I have relatives all over the place. It's about time they started taking care of Uncle Kelly. "

I don't speak for Laopo but I can see where he is coming from. Some Americans do seem to have a strange view of themselves and their importance. That may encourage posters to be irritated by the posts but it does not mean they are bashing posters. No evidence for that at all.

Lighten up guys.

caf

The post you quoted literally made me laugh out loud.

[ferd54]

1. The op, whatever his nationality, is not making a historical analysis. He has a chip on his shoulder about his "troubles" and says Thailand owes him big time.

2. I don't see America or American bashing per se.

Lighten up guys.

I think it was written with the intent to be "light" -- it struck me as self-deprecating, a bit tongue in cheek.

There are always -- and I meant it, always -- people ready to pile on to criticize Americans, even if they've never been to the US. But actually we criticize ourselves enough we should be able to take it. I dismiss many of the critics for what they are -- ignorant and driven by less-than-admirable motives. I really don't care what drivel they spew.

[Ulysses G.]

There are always -- and I meant it, always -- people ready to pile on to criticize Americans, even if they've never been to the US. But actually we criticize ourselves enough we should be able to take it. I dismiss many of the critics for what they are -- ignorant and driven by less-than-admirable motives. I really don't care what drivel they spew.

Thank you ferd. A diamond shining bright on a page of mostly <deleted>!

[venturalaw]

Why are they always so sensitive if it comes to America ?

Because it is very fashionable to attack America right now, and one gets weary of reading all the same

nonsense over and over again.

It's not so much the point of attacking, it's the point that so many (presumably) Americans react so itchy when it comes to their homeland.

America is the only country on this forum that if someone says something it's immediately considered as flaming/bashing upon the strongest nation on earth, the USA.

If the same happens about the UK, Australia or any other country like Israel, Russia the reactions from members from those countries are "taken" and swallowed with a grain of salt and taken as men who can take comments from others. They're big guys and know what the world is about.

Not so with the Americans here on this forum; they bite back immediately and react with aggressiveness.

In the past 5 years I've seen many warnings towards others to stop talking about America as if it's forbidden to talk about America. At the same time I see so many attacks on other countries and than....nothing...silence; nobody says anything. Nobody forbids to talk bad about other countries or even Thailand. Do you see the Thai members act itchy..aggressive? Not me.

That's why I asked myself why Americans react so itchy. Much is true of what has been said about America, many things not, but why not have a civilized debate instead reacting so itchy ?

If I would say that the US Intelligence Services in the US did a bad job, coordinating and preventing the plane-attack on Christmas, I will immediately be attacked. The point is that the President said so a few hours ago himself, so....can I say the same or is that a no-no ?

May I say that maybe The Netherlands did a bad job to let this guy step on board ? But if you would attack The Netherlands for being neglect I wouldn't felt itchy because you might have a point.

Self reflection is also a way to look upon the problem

LaoPo

Why would you claim that America is the only country that reacts if 'something' (presumably you mean negative) is said about it? First, I have seen others exhibit patriotism for their country and have been protective of there country when attacked by outsiders. Why not? And, I believe particularly in the case of my country, America, if outsiders are being insulting to the greatest nation on Earth, it is quite likely that their own country somehow benefited as the result of America. It's similar to welfare. When one is receiving it, they feel weak, inferior, and therefore resentful - because they are weak and inferior.

So many countries have benefited as the result of the charitable nature of America, and more to the point, the charitable nature of the American people. Those that take and take and take are often the worst offenders. So they name call. So, what else is new? I recently met a visiting retired judge from another country. He came up to me and said "we expect (get that - EXPECT) to receive a 'Pot of Gold' from America - "WITH NO STRINGS ATTACHED!" How weak! And in his speech, he maligned America. All I can say is that's unfortunately 'typical'.

America would be perhaps much better off if it became isolated - leave other countries alone, and be left alone by other countries. America can certainly survive without the help of other nations. But that is not America's nature. So continue to sling your arrows. One thing is certain - America and Americans can take it. We're use to being hated by the ignorant and weak due to our superior strength and character.

[caf]

Why are they always so sensitive if it comes to America ?

Because it is very fashionable to attack America right now, and one gets weary of reading all the same

nonsense over and over again.

It's not so much the point of attacking, it's the point that so many (presumably) Americans react so itchy when it comes to their homeland.

America is the only country on this forum that if someone says something it's immediately considered as flaming/bashing upon the strongest nation on earth, the USA.

If the same happens about the UK, Australia or any other country like Israel, Russia the reactions from members from those countries are "taken" and swallowed with a grain of salt and taken as men who can take comments from others. They're big guys and know what the world is about.

Not so with the Americans here on this forum; they bite back immediately and react with aggressiveness.

In the past 5 years I've seen many warnings towards others to stop talking about America as if it's forbidden to talk about America. At the same time I see so many attacks on other countries and than....nothing...silence; nobody says anything. Nobody forbids to talk bad about other countries or even Thailand. Do you see the Thai members act itchy..aggressive? Not me.

That's why I asked myself why Americans react so itchy. Much is true of what has been said about America, many things not, but why not have a civilized debate instead reacting so itchy ?

If I would say that the US Intelligence Services in the US did a bad job, coordinating and preventing the plane-attack on Christmas, I will immediately be attacked. The point is that the President said so a few hours ago himself, so....can I say the same or is that a no-no ?

May I say that maybe The Netherlands did a bad job to let this guy step on board ? But if you would attack The Netherlands for being neglect I wouldn't felt itchy because you might have a point.

Self reflection is also a way to look upon the problem

LaoPo

Why would you claim that America is the only country that reacts if 'something' (presumably you mean negative) is said about it? First, I have seen others exhibit patriotism for their country and have been protective of there country when attacked by outsiders. Why not? And, I believe particularly in the case of my country, America, if outsiders are being insulting to the greatest nation on Earth, it is quite likely that their own country somehow benefited as the result of America. It's similar to welfare. When one is receiving it, they feel weak, inferior, and therefore resentful - because they are weak and inferior.

So many countries have benefited as the result of the charitable nature of America, and more to the point, the charitable nature of the American people. Those that take and take and take are often the worst offenders. So they name call. So, what else is new? I recently met a visiting retired judge from another country. He came up to me and said "we expect (get that - EXPECT) to receive a 'Pot of Gold' from America - "WITH NO STRINGS ATTACHED!" How weak! And in his speech, he maligned America. All I can say is that's unfortunately 'typical'.

America would be perhaps much better off if it became isolated - leave other countries alone, and be left alone by other countries. America can certainly survive without the help of other nations. But that is not America's nature. So continue to sling your arrows. One thing is certain - America and Americans can take it. We're use to being hated by the ignorant and weak due to our superior strength and character.

I accept you are proud of your country. I am proud of mine.

Your post sounded fine until you said things like:

"because they are weak and inferior. "

"Those that take and take and take are often the worst offenders. "

"by the ignorant and weak"

Which countries are you referring to? You say so many countries.

I applaud your patriotism but the points above could get other nationalities a little upset. I do not like America-bashing and would never indulge in it. But what are you now doing?

This thread is about Thailand and the country receives a great deal of aid from other countries including America.

caf

[chiangmaikelly]

Ok Caf, I wrote the post. If you disagree, fine. You have not given me a source that has anything to do with Thailand or anything I posted. I would be more than happy to read anything that has anything to do with anything I posted. Please tell me chapter and verse of what to read. Like Willian Shirer "..." chapter ".." and I will read it and post my profuse apologies. Also I will learn something.

Naming two authors who wrote about the second world war but not about Thailand and the second world war does does not advance my knowledge about Thailand and the second world war.

Actually I did learn something from another poster about the close relationship between America and the Royal family but I didn't mention it because of Thai Visa policy. Not that there was anything wrong with it but better to leave that out of discussions. However you could look it up if you wanted to.

[whistleblower]

I get upset because it's not my fault and I am getting blamed for it. The Brits and the French were in control of SEA until after WW II. During WW II the SEA countries were up in the mountains eating jungle food and planning the revolution. They made Lao Kao and talked about how bad the Brits and French had been for the past 200 years.

Some smart ass housewife named Betty decided that the Brits should not have Thailand along with Burma and that started my troubles. The OSS moved in and took over when the Brits left Thailand. The same thing happened when the French left Vietnam. The CIA moved in and that started my troubles there.

I can understand why the Brits and French did not want to leave SEA. Expats just like you and me had a lot of money invested in businesses in SEA and the local boys wanted the businesses. No they didn't want to pay for them. That is what communism is all about. You take from the rich and give to the communist party.

But it wasn't my fault. I didn't do a darn thing to encourage it one way or the other.

The British and the French left and I got drafted. I didn't want to get drafted.

Slavery! YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT SLAVERY! Slavery was me getting drafted. If I gave any lip to the captain I got thrown in jail. In my case he even tried to kill me. I am not making this stuff up. I told the man I was already working 15 hours a day and I was not going to get up an hour early and get him a darn weather report when all he had to do was look outside and see if it was raining or not. He tried to have me killed. Assigned me to be a tunnel rat and pre dated my orders. Tunnel rats lived by the hour, not days, weeks or months.

So when someone bashes me for being an American I get upset. I didn't want to be Rambo. I wanted to sit in the hallway in college beneath the stairs and watch the girls with short skirts walk up the stairs.

I am tired of bailing Europe out of its failed wars.

Americans are isolationist people. If they get a chance to vote on the issues they always vote isolationist. They just want to be left alone.

Cuba is an American problem, I can deal with that. Cuba stole Coca cola. Cuba stole all the mafia casinos in Havana. Cuba shut down all the American owned whore houses in Havana. That's bad stuff. I still get upset about it.

You all expect me to solve your problems because you don't have the cash to take care of Pakistan. What country created the problems in Pakistan? What country created the problems in the Middle East and Africa?

What famous statesman decided to partition the countries in Africa and the Middle East by borders instead of by tribes? I'll give you a hint he wasn't a Yank.

I am an average American. I am not a banker or broker. I think those people are crooks. I think the democrats and republicans are crooks. I am the average American. I gave up. The country is too messed up by trying to take care of other people's problems. I came to Thailand. I came to Thailand because Thailand owes me big time.

Do you know how much money and bodily fluids I spent here in the 60's? No you don't but it was a lot. I imagine I have relatives all over the place. It's about time they started taking care of Uncle Kelly.

your first post was mildly interesting. Now you are just talking bullshit!!!! you started out advising pilots to do pre checks, then a weather man, tunnel rat and no doubt 'running black' missions for the CIA.

Tired of bailing Europe out of its failed wars???? Tell me one fuc_king war the USA has been in (on its own!!!) and won????

And it was your country that started the problems in the middle east, George Bush does business with the bin laden family. All about oil.

You came to Thailand because it owes you big time??? So cos you spent a lot of money and bodily fluids exploiting the women of this country it now owes you big time???

 

Edited January 8, 2010 by bonobo
Deleted pejorative.

[LaoPo]

There are always -- and I meant it, always -- people ready to pile on to criticize Americans, even if they've never been to the US. But actually we criticize ourselves enough we should be able to take it. I dismiss many of the critics for what they are -- ignorant and driven by less-than-admirable motives. I really don't care what drivel they spew.

Thank you ferd. A diamond shining bright on a page of mostly <deleted>!

I wanted to comment but you were first Ulysses G, so I'm second in line and I second the opinion of Ferd54.

Wise words by Ferd54 indeed and it shows how vulnerable and sensitive Americans take comments on certain American individuals, systems, entities or the Government nowadays.

Most people commenting on such "entities" are not criticizing on the whole of the USA or on 308 millions of Americans but it is taken as such by the fellow member-Americans, here on board of the ThaiVisa ship.

I have been criticized in the past also but that's more of the same and incorrect and certainly not justified!

On the contrary, I have been praising the US many times and if I do, I never hear anything.

I have opened topics about great Americans in the past, like Lance Armstrong* who -in my own opinion- is THE greatest sportsman EVER and it will be hard for anybody to convince me of another sportsman, greater than him.

Another great American was the sadly crashed Steve Fossett**, surely also a great American who made worldwide press attention and made many people, also all over the world, admiring him, including myself.

I also opened a thread about him and luckily the Mods kept it open since it had nothing to do with Thailand (the same as many football topics have nothing to do with Thailand...); unfortunately the photos I posted are gone.

* http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Nightmare-Fr...De-t211431.html LANCE ARMSTRONG

** http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Solo-World-t59769.html and ** more information: http://www.scaled.com/projects/globalflyer.html STEVE FOSSETT

The problem you guys from the US have is, that you complain immediately if someone -justified or not- says something about something, related to the US, that you immediately put in the cabin drawer which says: "bashing America" ..what an utter nonsense!

Instead you guys debate the essence of the particular sentence or "complaint" by the writer/member, you start shouting: "He's is an America basher"

Be a man and debate!

99% of the non-American members here, and I'm sure of that, do not dislike "America" as such, nor the 308 million Americans but have funded complaints about certain problems, related to the US.

That's NOT bashing upon America.

If others have something to criticize abut Australia, Germany, Holland, the UK....do it but I do not consider that as bashing upon an entire nation.

Now....I have the UTMOST respect for the President of the USA who just claimed that HE himself carries the responsibilty for the (luckily) failed attack on an airplane coming from Amsterdam and flying to Detroit.

HE took responsibility and if someone says...yeah, but he gained a lot of respect, saying that...well, so be it, but at least he said it and took the blame.

For such great Americans I have the deepest respect !

NB: did any of you ever open a thread here about a famous non-American ? Maybe you now realize what I'm talking about?

LaoPo

[bonobo]

I have debated posting on "US bashing," but here it goes.

There is US bashing in ThaiVisa.  And UK bashing, and Israel bashing, and Palestine bashing, and Australia bashing (add China, India, Malaysia, Singapore, North Korea, Germany, France, the Philippines, and even the Netherlands, to the list.)  But due to the fairly larger amount of US bashing that goes on here, I would guess that is is probably that some US members feel a little shell-shocked by it, ready to jump up more when it surfaces. Whereas the one since deleted post bashing the Netherlands may have just brought an amused chuckle from a Dutch poster reading it as it was so out-of-line.

Criticizing a country or its politicians is not bashing.  To say you don't feel comfortable flying a US carrier to Thailand because you don't trust the US security measures is your opinion.  That is not bashing.  To say that you feel George Bush caused problems in the Muslim world which has worsen the problem in the south of Thailand is again your opinion. To say you don't like McDonalds, and you think that is indicative of American food, well, that is opinion, too.  But that is not US bashing.

But to say all Americans should be killed, as one Australian poster posted, or to say the US is an "evil pox on the world," as another member posted, well, yes, that is bashing. To use profanity in denigrating a country or a people is bashing.  To state that the US is the cause of all the major problems in the world is probably bashing.

Criticism is OK, bashing isn't.  On the other hand, even if is is not bashing, some US posters might take issue with a critical post.  They may think highly of Bush, airport security, or American food. And that is their opinion, and they have the same rights as anyone else to post that opinion.

[chiangmaikelly]

Why did you all turn my thread into a bashing thread?

It is obvious that Thailand on almost any level is pro US as opposed to any other country.

There are historical reasons for this.

If you want to bash the US or bitch about US bashing why don't you open another thread?

[LaoPo]

I have debated posting on "US bashing," but here it goes.

There is US bashing in ThaiVisa.  And UK bashing, and Israel bashing, and Palestine bashing, and Australia bashing (add China, India, Malaysia, Singapore, North Korea, Germany, France, the Philippines, and even the Netherlands, to the list.)  But due to the fairly larger amount of US bashing that goes on here, I would guess that is is probably that some US members feel a little shell-shocked by it, ready to jump up more when it surfaces. Whereas the one since deleted post bashing the Netherlands may have just brought an amused chuckle from a Dutch poster reading it as it was so out-of-line.

Criticizing a country or its politicians is not bashing.  To say you don't feel comfortable flying a US carrier to Thailand because you don't trust the US security measures is your opinion.  That is not bashing.  To say that you feel George Bush caused problems in the Muslim world which has worsen the problem in the south of Thailand is again your opinion. To say you don't like McDonalds, and you think that is indicative of American food, well, that is opinion, too.  But that is not US bashing.

But to say all Americans should be killed, as one Australian poster posted, or to say the US is an "evil pox on the world," as another member posted, well, yes, that is bashing. To use profanity in denigrating a country or a people is bashing.  To state that the US is the cause of all the major problems in the world is probably bashing.

Criticism is OK, bashing isn't.  On the other hand, even if is is not bashing, some US posters might take issue with a critical post.  They may think highly of Bush, airport security, or American food. And that is their opinion, and they have the same rights as anyone else to post that opinion.

I didn't see anyone, bashing The Netherlands but for me it doesn't matter. I will comment with my own words and will not be offended if it's a silly cvomment/bash.

For the bold section; I agree.

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

Why did you all turn my thread into a bashing thread?

It is obvious that Thailand on almost any level is pro US as opposed to any other country.

There are historical reasons for this.

If you want to bash the US or bitch about US bashing why don't you open another thread?

I have opened another thread in another forum here on TV, but unfortunately for you, you can't have access; it requires more posts; 500.

LaoPo

[Seismic]

interesting thread

There are so many things about your replies that i could answer to Chiangmaikely that I dont really know where to start.

The basic one would be "do you actually know where South east asia is ??"

lets try baby walks.... and start there, why in hel_l should Thailand like USA, considering the accounts of Stillwell and Nimitz (from intelligence they recieved).

If you like I can quote chapter and verse.

The simple fact is that Thailand really doesnt like USA, same as many other countries, what they like is USA dollars.

Or UK pounds, or EU Euros,.

You have taken a few out of context remarks and actions and Turned them into a "we love america" campaign, when in fact it doesnt really exist here.

Thats according to every Thai I Know...... and I know a lot and they are well educated.

And after living here for 29 years, I can really state that almost every Thai I know really doesnt give a hoot for USA, kinda puts a big blank on your so called "theory"

regards

Freddie

[Dustybin]

It's a Father-Child relationship, literally.

[caf]

Ok Caf, I wrote the post. If you disagree, fine. You have not given me a source that has anything to do with Thailand or anything I posted. I would be more than happy to read anything that has anything to do with anything I posted. Please tell me chapter and verse of what to read. Like Willian Shirer "..." chapter ".." and I will read it and post my profuse apologies. Also I will learn something.

Naming two authors who wrote about the second world war but not about Thailand and the second world war does does not advance my knowledge about Thailand and the second world war.

Actually I did learn something from another poster about the close relationship between America and the Royal family but I didn't mention it because of Thai Visa policy. Not that there was anything wrong with it but better to leave that out of discussions. However you could look it up if you wanted to.

I am aware of the point you make in your final paragraph and was aware of it long before I came to Thailand.

[chiangmaikelly]

interesting thread

There are so many things about your replies that i could answer to Chiangmaikely that I dont really know where to start.

The basic one would be "do you actually know where South east asia is ??"

lets try baby walks.... and start there, why in hel_l should Thailand like USA, considering the accounts of Stillwell and Nimitz (from intelligence they recieved).

If you like I can quote chapter and verse.

The simple fact is that Thailand really doesnt like USA, same as many other countries, what they like is USA dollars.

Or UK pounds, or EU Euros,.

You have taken a few out of context remarks and actions and Turned them into a "we love america" campaign, when in fact it doesnt really exist here.

Thats according to every Thai I Know...... and I know a lot and they are well educated.

And after living here for 29 years, I can really state that almost every Thai I know really doesnt give a hoot for USA, kinda puts a big blank on your so called "theory"

regards

Freddie

The great majority of Thais are not well educated so a well educated opinion would not count more than an uneducated opinion.

I think we have even a more basic disagreement than my original post. So might as well deal with that first.

Perhaps you could tell me what country Thais like more than the US?

What is your criteria for Thais liking a country?

Anecdotal evidence is always flawed but very interesting to read.

I ate dinner at a Thai Naval base last night (I took pictures). After dinner we went to the one of the officers home to reminisce about old times. Their experiences with the Cobra Gold exercises and transporting ships from San Diego. It was hard for me to imagine I could be even close to being wrong. These guys were so pro American it was hard to believe. They had a good time at the officers clubs in the US and had nothing but good things to say about the US Navy. There are a lot of connections between our two militaries that go beyond politics.

[Ulysses G.]

Why are they always so sensitive if it comes to America ?

Because it is very fashionable to attack America right now, and one gets weary of reading all the same

nonsense over and over again.

It's not so much the point of attacking, it's the point that so many (presumably) Americans react so itchy when it comes to their homeland.

America is the only country on this forum that if someone says something it's immediately considered as flaming/bashing upon the strongest nation on earth, the USA.

If the same happens about the UK, Australia or any other country like Israel, Russia the reactions from members from those countries are "taken" and swallowed with a grain of salt and taken as men who can take comments from others. They're big guys and know what the world is about.

Not so with the Americans here on this forum; they bite back immediately and react with aggressiveness.

I hope that lannabirth does not mind if I quote him from another thread dealing with this subject. His post is a breath of fresh air in a lake of lies.

I have no personal beef with Lao Po. I just don't understand why he says all this crap and then doesn't own it. I don't care if he bashes the US, but for crissakes, have some integrity. You see on these other threads guys playing grabass with each other, but at least they don't run away and say "it wasn't me".

[venturalaw]

I have debated posting on "US bashing," but here it goes.

There is US bashing in ThaiVisa.  And UK bashing, and Israel bashing, and Palestine bashing, and Australia bashing (add China, India, Malaysia, Singapore, North Korea, Germany, France, the Philippines, and even the Netherlands, to the list.)  But due to the fairly larger amount of US bashing that goes on here, I would guess that is is probably that some US members feel a little shell-shocked by it, ready to jump up more when it surfaces. Whereas the one since deleted post bashing the Netherlands may have just brought an amused chuckle from a Dutch poster reading it as it was so out-of-line.

Criticizing a country or its politicians is not bashing.  To say you don't feel comfortable flying a US carrier to Thailand because you don't trust the US security measures is your opinion.  That is not bashing.  To say that you feel George Bush caused problems in the Muslim world which has worsen the problem in the south of Thailand is again your opinion. To say you don't like McDonalds, and you think that is indicative of American food, well, that is opinion, too.  But that is not US bashing.

But to say all Americans should be killed, as one Australian poster posted, or to say the US is an "evil pox on the world," as another member posted, well, yes, that is bashing. To use profanity in denigrating a country or a people is bashing.  To state that the US is the cause of all the major problems in the world is probably bashing.

Criticism is OK, bashing isn't.  On the other hand, even if is is not bashing, some US posters might take issue with a critical post.  They may think highly of Bush, airport security, or American food. And that is their opinion, and they have the same rights as anyone else to post that opinion.

Very well said.

[venturalaw]

Why are they always so sensitive if it comes to America ?

It's not so much the point of attacking, it's the point that so many (presumably) Americans react so itchy when it comes to their homeland.

America is the only country on this forum that if someone says something it's immediately considered as flaming/bashing upon the strongest nation on earth, the USA.

If the same happens about the UK, Australia or any other country like Israel, Russia the reactions from members from those countries are "taken" and swallowed with a grain of salt and taken as men who can take comments from others. They're big guys and know what the world is about.

Not so with the Americans here on this forum; they bite back immediately and react with aggressiveness.

In the past 5 years I've seen many warnings towards others to stop talking about America as if it's forbidden to talk about America. At the same time I see so many attacks on other countries and than....nothing...silence; nobody says anything. Nobody forbids to talk bad about other countries or even Thailand. Do you see the Thai members act itchy..aggressive? Not me.

That's why I asked myself why Americans react so itchy. Much is true of what has been said about America, many things not, but why not have a civilized debate instead reacting so itchy ?

If I would say that the US Intelligence Services in the US did a bad job, coordinating and preventing the plane-attack on Christmas, I will immediately be attacked. The point is that the President said so a few hours ago himself, so....can I say the same or is that a no-no ?

May I say that maybe The Netherlands did a bad job to let this guy step on board ? But if you would attack The Netherlands for being neglect I wouldn't felt itchy because you might have a point.

Self reflection is also a way to look upon the problem

LaoPo

Why would you claim that America is the only country that reacts if 'something' (presumably you mean negative) is said about it? First, I have seen others exhibit patriotism for their country and have been protective of there country when attacked by outsiders. Why not? And, I believe particularly in the case of my country, America, if outsiders are being insulting to the greatest nation on Earth, it is quite likely that their own country somehow benefited as the result of America. It's similar to welfare. When one is receiving it, they feel weak, inferior, and therefore resentful - because they are weak and inferior.

So many countries have benefited as the result of the charitable nature of America, and more to the point, the charitable nature of the American people. Those that take and take and take are often the worst offenders. So they name call. So, what else is new? I recently met a visiting retired judge from another country. He came up to me and said "we expect (get that - EXPECT) to receive a 'Pot of Gold' from America - "WITH NO STRINGS ATTACHED!" How weak! And in his speech, he maligned America. All I can say is that's unfortunately 'typical'.

America would be perhaps much better off if it became isolated - leave other countries alone, and be left alone by other countries. America can certainly survive without the help of other nations. But that is not America's nature. So continue to sling your arrows. One thing is certain - America and Americans can take it. We're use to being hated by the ignorant and weak due to our superior strength and character.

I accept you are proud of your country. I am proud of mine.

Your post sounded fine until you said things like:

"because they are weak and inferior. "

"Those that take and take and take are often the worst offenders. "

"by the ignorant and weak"

Which countries are you referring to? You say so many countries.

I applaud your patriotism but the points above could get other nationalities a little upset. I do not like America-bashing and would never indulge in it. But what are you now doing?

This thread is about Thailand and the country receives a great deal of aid from other countries including America.

caf

Point taken. I should not be insulting. And clearly, when we are talking about bashing, criticizing, complimenting, or whatever, we are talking about people communicating, not countries. That said, I have found that those who are, as I said, the worst offenders, are often those who benefited the most. Frankly, I'm disappointed in the way America is headed and I am much happier here in Thailand. So when I am talking about America's strength, it's more about the past rather than the present. But you are right - I am proud of my country - America, just disappointed in the direction it is current headed. Sorry for being off-topic.

[thaiozy]

Unless the OP posts a source, link or some other attribution this thread will shortly be removed.

sums it up because it`s got me f@*k@d

[trompelemonde]

I don't think that those countries who were aided by the USA during conflicts are ungrateful for what the USA did, far from it in fact.

It is very hard to imagine the huge loss of life, subjugation, dislocation and destruction to the culture and institutions of Europe and Asia as a result of WWI and WWII. You can, I think, understand that these countries do not want to celebrate or glorify war as perhaps a victor would.

[klikster]

There are so many inaccuracies being quoted in this thread, the posts about r and r and whorehouses seem welcome relief.

.

Seconded. And some of the R&R information suggests that the OP is writing about a limited time window. No mention of Nha Trang (SF HQ). China Beach? Marines deployed in 'Nam in '65, I believe. Out-of country R&R when I took mine (March '65) was limited to Bangkok and Hong Kong.

The 'not a war' had its origins much earlier than suggested. Capt. Harry Cramer (1st SF) was killed 21 October 1957.

Not one mention in this thread about Aaron Bank. His book makes some interesting reading.

"From Oss to Green Beret"

Green Beret founder Col. Bank recounts his warfare experiences as a member of the military's special forces.

Copyright 1994 Reed Business Information, Inc.

Ironically, that old trooper never got to wear a green beret.

When writing about history, starting at the beginning is usually a good idea. Ignoring the sacrifices of warriors who died in combat in the 50's and early 60's is a bad idea, IMO.

[chiangmaikelly]

What inaccuracies did I post? Assuming you are talking about me.

[klikster]

What inaccuracies did I post? Assuming you are talking about me.

Well, assuming that you might be talking about me .. although it really doesn't matter.

For starters, A Historical Analysis Of Why Thailand Likes America, A thinking man's study of why Thail's love Americans

Your thread title makes assumptions that may or not be true, i.e.:

- Do Thais really love Americans or do they occasionally change their opinions about 'America' (the U.S.A.) based on US Government actions?

- Further, which Americans? South Americans, Norte Americanos ...

- Historical Analysis? Maybe a regurgitation of a number of facts already recorded, inaccurate "stories" ala Tony P., etc.

- To me, it looks as if you start off with a bias and tried to bend and blend snippets of history to fit your premise.

- "Thinking Man" .. PLEASE! "Study"? Questionable, IMO.

I doubt very seriously if what you have "written" would stand muster much past the title under peer review by real historians.

As to who/where do the Thais "love". I would guess Switzerland. Because that's where H.M. grew up.