More Tuk-tuk Trouble In Phuket

[brahmburgers]

cheating is cheating. If I have a store selling lamps, and one of the lamps is gold colored, which I sell for $5, and person comes in and says, 'is that real gold? if so it must be worth $100" ....and I say, 'sure, it's real gold, you can have it for $100. That's cheating.

Back to the OP; the tuk tuk drive knows he's ripping off customers. In a round about way, he got caught. Sorry the farang got injured in the process. Every day, 1,000 or more farang get ripped off in Phuket (and elsewhere) paying too-high prices for a tuk tuk drive. For the cops to catch one thief is rare, so the driver should be fined - on top of the assault charge. ....same for the accessory.

Here's a little true story I thought I'd never tell, because it was too dull:

I went to Palm Springs California (west of L.A.) in 2008. First time there, right off the bus. I was meeting someone at the Post Office. I saw a cab, hailed it. Before turning on the meter, the woman driver pointed out the P.O. - a couple blocks down the street and told me, 'might as well walk, and save the cab fare.'

That happened half a world away, and it was a 180 degree different attitude than the cabbies in Phuket.

[Brewsta]

well not everyone can thinking logically , and also foresee the time and financial lose that one self cause .

so next time . if this happen to anyone of you , the Smart Question is

is it worth the Time and cost over that 50b .

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

True value . is a funny statement .

there is no true value in anything .is only what we AGREE on .

That is 100 percent wrong. You are talking about a real free market, not a mafia market ruled by violence. The true value IS clearly under 50 baht. I am accounting for the high costs of Phuket, obviously in Isaan it might be more like 20 baht. However if a non-mafia private Thai tried to exploit that market and come to free will agreements with customers, he would be murdered. By the mafia. Now that's the truth.

Well now: Brawling over 50 baht carriage dispute plus a 2,000 baht hospital bill in strange new town/country with wife = principle or prattery ?

Discuss.

Sympathy should be tempered with reality, wherever the heck you are nowadays, IMHO.

sad but true. Brewsta.

[featography]

The fare was agreed. End of story. Passenger initiated the dispute. The driver should have an alternative way of settling fare disputes. Why not simply hand the passenger a ticket with the agreed fare written on it at the start ? Few tourists would bother to argue with something in writing.

TAT, next problem please.

And sybeymai gets bonus points for the shortest, most direct, and thouroughly profound solution.

Moving on to the next earthshaking breaking news story

[morphic]

This man was conned, thats why he objected to paying 150 baht and offered a still ludicrous 100 baht. I am astonished at many of the replies here, which assume once you've made a deal you are not allowed to back out and if you do then you deserve to be severely beaten, who knows, maybe even killed. If you agree to a deal its generally assumed to be in good faith, not a con. If it turns out be a con, backing out is perfectly reasonable.

This attutude that many falang seem to have that whenever another falang is assaulted that they asked for it is ignorant and stupid, pure and simple.

Personally I don't have any interest in going to Phuket and will not ever go there, for many reasons. It amazes me that many people do continue to go there, I suppose there just isn't enough publicity of this kind. There should be more programs of the kind that showed the jet ski scam and maffia. And if the Thai's dont like that then tough. And if they lose revenue, tough. If Thai politicians dont like it, thats tough too.

It appears that Thailand understands nothing about what civilised and honest behaviour is. The only way to teach them is through not giving them our money or force. We have the choice to not visit and give them our money at least even if in their country and outnumbered by viscous thugs we are not in a position to meet force with force, however much these "people" deserve that. With these tuk tuk drivers and any other thugs in Thailand, we appear to be dealing with people who are really only semi human, almost a mix of human and monkey when it comes to their level of intellect. Visiting these areas of Thailand almost reminds me of visiting a zoo or a place for wild animals which would be a foolish thing to do without all of the necessary precautions.

[Pui]

Not defending the actions of the driver by any means but didn't the guy agree to 150 then offer 100. Probably not a good idea in any foreign country over 50 baht.

Couldnt agree more. You settle on a price with someone its a gentlemen's agreement. He got a pasting for a knicker!

Perhaps try and negotiate when you realize its a short distance but take the wee wee and they'll kick the doo doo out ya.

Its not India where they will agree a price then put it up when you arive. The Thai fella was just sticking to his guns.

Why not. Som Nom Na

[DegenFarang]

I'm going to have to side with the Tuk Tuk driver on this one, especially if it is true that the guy swore at him and kicked him or even made a motion toward him with his feet, which as we all know is the worst form of insult in Thai culture.

All that over 50 baht ey? Ya it's a scam but it's less than $2 and he should have asked somebody how long it would take. You can never in any business in any country negotiate a price for a service, take that service, then upon completion pay a different price and walk away.

Typical egotistical tourist unaware of Thai culture, thinking he is superior and the small little smiling man in the tuk tuk can't do anything about it. He learned his lesson and hopefully will be more respectful in the future.

[kuhnjohn]

Not defending the actions of the driver by any means but didn't the guy agree to 150 then offer 100. Probably not a good idea in any foreign country over 50 baht.

I'd have to agree here. Anwar and the driver agreed to 150 baht for the ride, and then after services were rendered, Anwar wanted to offer less. And if it's true that he escalated the situation further by being rude and kicking the driver, then I'm not surprised at the eventual outcome.

I'm sort of happy that people like Anwar won't be returning to Thailand for their holidays.

Last time I was in Phuket they wanted 600 baht for a 1 mile ride. I had the police come after we argued about the price and they agreed. I hope you understand how much they rip off customers. If you believe what you say you are a Tuk Tuk driver.

[jonclark]

Interesting reading this; for my two cents worth, Tuk - Tuk drivers are part of a criminal ring, so they behave like criminals nuff said.

Poor bloke and his wife, hope the tuk tuk driver is made to pay his hospital bills, cause I'm sure if the boot was on the other foot, the Canadian would be 'asked' to pay medical expenses.

[thaiwanderer]

Other than the potential adverse affect on visitor numbers (which is far from self evident given the wealth of 'bad' things Thailand does to discourage tourism) why shouldn't tourists get ripped off?

Edited January 6, 2010 by thaiwanderer

[tracer]

Not defending the actions of the driver by any means but didn't the guy agree to 150 then offer 100. Probably not a good idea in any foreign country over 50 baht.

always trying to find excuses to these phuket tuk tuk wanke_rs.....

i am sure you are living in Phuket.

Phuket is a s..t hole, we all know this!

Hope they will not have the idea to come to Isan! Hope Phuket will keep all its mafia!

Donot be silly, send them to Chieng Mai... Good for Taksin and his friends to get flooded by maffia!

Whatever, tuk tuk drivers and motorbike taxis, are a bloody nuisance in Phuket. I was going to be charged one time 250 baht to drive me maybe 500 m. Obviously as I knew the place where I was I drove to my customer and borrowed a lady to sit on the back of my motorbike and transport computer back to office (Almost next to police station...)

NO headache but since that time I never have used a tuk tuk or motor bike in this vilage again...

By the way, you get the same kind of problems in PATONG: IE, if you donot like the price, tell them to get lost.

[George4]

Not defending the actions of the driver by any means but didn't the guy agree to 150 then offer 100. Probably not a good idea in any foreign country over 50 baht.

always trying to find excuses to these phuket tuk tuk wanke_rs.....

i am sure you are living in Phuket.

Phuket is a s..t hole, we all know this!

Hope they will not have the idea to come to Isan! Hope Phuket will keep all its mafia!

Donot be silly, send them to Chieng Mai... Good for Taksin and his friends to get flooded by maffia!

Whatever, tuk tuk drivers and motorbike taxis, are a bloody nuisance in Phuket. I was going to be charged one time 250 baht to drive me maybe 500 m. Obviously as I knew the place where I was I drove to my customer and borrowed a lady to sit on the back of my motorbike and transport computer back to office (Almost next to police station...)

NO headache but since that time I never have used a tuk tuk or motor bike in this vilage again...

By the way, you get the same kind of problems in PATONG: IE, if you donot like the price, tell them to get lost.

You who think the Thai tuk tuk guys are so bad take a visit to Glasgow. Ask the fare, get in and when the taxi stops tell the driver he's getting 2/3rds of his fare. When you waken up in the hospital tell them I said hello!

Should have hit him harder

Edited January 6, 2010 by George4

[hkt83100]

Do you morons really think you know what happened and what was said between the parties based on a Phuket Gazette newspaper article? It's a rhetorical question

Well, there are other media with different writings...

[Rudyruns]

The guy should have paid 150 baht and been on his way. Don't protest over a buck and a half. One thing I've learned in foreign countries is to pick your battles. Are the tuk tuk drivers in Phuket rude? Yes. Are they thugs? Yes. Is there another way to get around in Phuket if you don't have a car or motorbike? No. So negotiate the fare and pay what you agreed to. Case closed.

You bring up several good points Bruce...but I don't believe the passenger kicked him unless he was trying to defend himself. I say this knowing first hand "how do you know a Thai tuk tuk driver is lying" when his lips are moving. The driver (excused the pun) tried to take him for a ride. Physical abuse/violence is unacceptable and he should spend some time in jail---and perhaps community work. Never let him drive a tuk tuk anymore(send the others a message). If you don't have a car or motorbike...then think twice before going there. Perhaps just stay closer to where you want to spend most of your time. Most Thai people I met in Phuket are kind and helpful...when it comes to tuk tuk drivers and taxi cab drivers...that's a whole different story.

stay healthy

[witsawakorn]

One thing to take note of:

- The TOURIST most likely had NO IDEA that it was ONLY a 1 minute ride. So while 150 baht seems ok at first, when shown that it was merely a long stone-throw, one are ALLOWED to protest the high charge.

- It is NEVER acceptable to resort to physical abuse over a dispute over a bill.

I agree that it is never acceptable to use violence but it also unacceptable (and pretty stupid) to negotiate a fare then to refuse to pay it especially in a foreign country .

[jontom]

Mature readers of this forum realize that you should only approach tuktuk drivers with caution and you take your life in your hands if you try to renegotiate a deal after arrival at your destination.

Confucious say: You cannot change Siam but Siam may change you

Here's another one for you"don't fight with pigs because you both get covered in Sh*t and the pig likes it" these tuk tuk drivers are an insult to pigs so sorry pigs but why take them on unless of course you arrive mob handed and give them the treatment that they obviously deserve. I cant help thinking that sooner or later one of them is going to be on the wrong end of a much deserved kicking or maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part.

[Marvo]

The tuk-tuk rip-off is also in Hua Hin, not just Phuket.

At 3:00pm one day, I woke up a driver and asked him how much to take me on a round trip out of town and back again 15km total. 1000 baht was the reply I got! As the trip in a metered taxi (had the mafia not run them out of town long ago) would have cost no more than 200 baht, I offered him 500 baht. No dice he said. I suggested that he could earn 500 baht in the next hour or go back to sleep for an hour and earn nothing. I'll leave you to guess which option he chose. i.e. for a tuk-tuk driver 500 baht is not worth getting out of bed for!

[indothai]

Business... just business. Be it 50 baht or 5 trillion baht if one undermines an agreement then they are just asking for trouble... and sadly deserves it. Wait.. I'm not condoning violence, but he DID AGREE to a price.

If he thought it was too expense, then why not do the freakin' research?... he probably thought he could out-think the dumb 3 wheeled driver... Not a smart move for a Canadian teacher, teaching in Japan.

Did he not ask how far it was?... How many meters, kilometers?

It could have gone worse.... glad it didn't.

[MAJIC]

Not defending the actions of the driver by any means but didn't the guy agree to 150 then offer 100. Probably not a good idea in any foreign country over 50 baht.

I'd have to agree here. Anwar and the driver agreed to 150 baht for the ride, and then after services were rendered, Anwar wanted to offer less. And if it's true that he escalated the situation further by being rude and kicking the driver, then I'm not surprised at the eventual outcome.

I'm sort of happy that people like Anwar won't be returning to Thailand for their holidays.

Think you missed the point here Bubba.

The 150 baht price was obviously a Farang Rip off price in the first place,so what was Mr Anwar supposed to do smile and say "thanks a lot"

Those who dont complain are making fair play difficult for everyone of us.

Mr Anwar also said he might return to Krabi.

One should not be assaulted for a financial dispute,the Tourist Police could have been consulted.

[Brewsta]

Do you morons really think you know what happened and what was said between the parties based on a Phuket Gazette newspaper article? It's a rhetorical question

Well, there are other media with different writings...

err....did you witness the fracas yourself, ricklev? Or are you sadly lumped with we ignorant [definition = lack of knowledge] 'morons' ?

Phuket has a seriously bad rep for this sheet on a regular basis and your inflammatory rhetoric hardly helps, eh.

You'll find me 'jai yen' in Chiangmai most of the year since 2000, where we luckily seem to export many of our 'morons' to southern tropical climes.

This thread is becoming positively pedestrian, as our Canadian victim could have been for 200 metres to avoid all this trouble and subsequent prattle.

Walking On By,

Brewsta in Chiangmai

[nontabury]

He says that next time he visits Thailand,rather then go to Phuket,he will visit Krabi to avoid this problem. Well he'll have to visit soon because the tuk tux drivers in Ao-nang are starting to act like the mafia,they seem to think they own the roads and all the parking spaces.maybe they've received training from their cousins in Phuket.

[Thai at Heart]

If it turns out that the ride was 30ms around the block it is no more or less valid than many other classic scams in Thailand. It relies on the naivety of the purchaser to secure an price beyond real value be it rubies or fake land titles, wives with multiple husbands etc

So is the TAT plan to make sure that every tourist is issued with a GPS to reliably tell them how far their proposed taxi ride will be?

We can all go on about it was a deal, it was agreed, but if the above scenario is what happened, the least that would have happened is another tourist would have been left with a bad taste in his mouth. Not a perfect outcome anyway. He may have been a bit cheap to renege on the price, but he probably felt he was ripped off.

It is a terrible shame that he got beaten up for 50 baht and it is no way a deserved reaction for his supposed offence which is demanding a fair price for a fair service.

Now the issue is, are we going to continue to read these stories over and over this year, or will the powers that be bother to do anything about it? On the basis that they can't even really organise the airport taxis, I somehow doubt it.

In which case, information about negotiating and at all costs avoiding confrontation with tuk tuk drivers (and other types of vendors) and asking questions in Thai about how far and how long a tuk tuk drive will be should be included in every tourism handbook, kinaree magazine, and check in document in the country. It will come to a point that the vast majority of tourists visiting Thailand will be aware of this scam in a few months and the tuk tuk drivers will see a massive drop in business and more fool them.

I would recommend to any person asking me about coming to Thailand for a holiday, is that they need to have a very serious dose of cynicism about them to avoid being ripped off.

[Otis]

Not defending the actions of the driver by any means but didn't the guy agree to 150 then offer 100. Probably not a good idea in any foreign country over 50 baht.

I'd have to agree here. Anwar and the driver agreed to 150 baht for the ride, and then after services were rendered, Anwar wanted to offer less. And if it's true that he escalated the situation further by being rude and kicking the driver, then I'm not surprised at the eventual outcome.

I'm sort of happy that people like Anwar won't be returning to Thailand for their holidays.

I think he said he would go to Krabi next time. Krabi beware. OC

[thrilled]

I hardly blame the tuk tuk driver.You negociate the price and when ya reach it,you pay that amount and maybe even A small tip.The canadian was dead wrong.You don't agree on one price and when you arrive at your destination decide your going to pay another.I hope the 50 baht difference was worth the ass kicking he got.I don't feel much for the tight wad canadian.

[block2]

I live in a village 35 / 40 clicks from Nakhon Sawan, buses stop running to my local town at 6pm, which is 15 clicks from where I live, I have a tuk tuk driver who I call all the time..and is tuk tuk is top of the range...fit 6 people in quite comfortably, and when he hits the A1..he's overtaken cars, buses, lorries etc..i reckon he as 1,100 cc between his legs..for a journey of 55 clicks he charges 350 baht and he always gets a 100 baht tip.

Forget the beaches, and the holiday isles..get up north and meet the true thais, the real Thailand....they will bend overbackwards to help yer..no rip off artists up here..they are all genuine..100%.

Block

[eTiMaGo]

seems to me both sides are guilty to an extent... Tourist for trying to negotiate a previously agreed-upon price, and driver for resorting to violence, there would have been other ways for him to get his lousy 150 baht (round up a few friends and intimidate the tourist.... the threat of violence is often more effective than violence itself).

What does this all mean, though? This whole Tuk-Tuk situation down in Phuket has been running rampant, slowly getting worse and worse as it was never really regulated from the start, nobody in any position of power who said "wait a minute, that's not right...."... and now the power of the tuk tuk mafia is greater than the power of the police/government (or most likely part of it anyway), so fat chance of anything really happening, it'd be killing the goose that lays golden eggs... It's a disgrace, to Phuket which I otherwise still find a pleasant place if you know the areas/people to avoid, and just to the country as a whole...

I'm no psychic, but this is gonna reach a breaking point sometime soon... This kind of crap is gonna happen again, then turn to full-out war between tuk tuk drivers and disgruntled tourists/expats/thais.... just a matter of time...

I've been mulling over a passive-aggressive solution for some time now.. a nail gun mounted under a car, designed for drive-by shooting into tuk tuk's tires where's Q when you need him?

[thefalang]

In my mind, there are basically two important issues here: 

1. the tuk-tuk driver resorted to violence to solve a problem - I believe that most people would agree that he was wrong and should be held responsible for his actions.

2. The tourist agreed to a fare and then attempted to renegotiate the fare after her realized that it was excessive - Is it fair and/or proper to overcharge someone due to their lack of knowledge of local market prices?  

I once spoke to a restaurant owner in Phuket town which catered to busloads of Japanese tourists. He used two menus (one in Thai and one in English language). Prices on the English menu were 200% that of the Thai menu. The owner maintained that there was no problem in charging the tourists double price because they ordered from the English menu and by doing so accepted the inflated prices. The owner had no problems whatsoever with the ethical considerations of his operation. This seems to be the mindset of many local businessmen, including the tuk-tuk drivers. 

Perhaps I'm just old-fashioned but I was raised to believe that overcharging a person was taking unfair advantage and was considered a undesirable conduct to say the least, regardless of the fact that he might have been unfamiliar with local conditions.  

The same situation applies to tuk-tuks and taxis in Phuket but is made even worse due to the fact that competition has been essentially eliminated. Tourists have limited options and are forced in some cases to paying fares which have no connection with market-driven prices. A free market system for transportation in Phuket would eliminate what is no more than an officially-condoned transportation scam.  

[indothai]

I live in a village 35 / 40 clicks from Nakhon Sawan, buses stop running to my local town at 6pm, which is 15 clicks from where I live, I have a tuk tuk driver who I call all the time..and is tuk tuk is top of the range...fit 6 people in quite comfortably, and when he hits the A1..he's overtaken cars, buses, lorries etc..i reckon he as 1,100 cc between his legs..for a journey of 55 clicks he charges 350 baht and he always gets a 100 baht tip.

Forget the beaches, and the holiday isles..get up north and meet the true thais, the real Thailand....they will bend overbackwards to help yer..no rip off artists up here..they are all genuine..100%.

Block

Noo.. Anwar will get wind of this and ruin everything.

[craigt3365]

Jeez....come on guys! He probably did not know the area. Not fair to negotiate a fare and then get ripped off as you did not know the area. Same thing happened to me in Moscow. I did not know the area, had no map, and got taken for a ride....literally!!!

Reminds me of the ripoffs in New York City several years ago. They would agree to use the meter, then drive you around until it was way over what the normal fair should be. Now, they have a standard, negotiated fare from the airport to the city center. No negotiating, no meter. Except going the other way...you still have to watch out!

[eTiMaGo]

In which case, information about negotiating and at all costs avoiding confrontation with tuk tuk drivers (and other types of vendors) and asking questions in Thai about how far and how long a tuk tuk drive will be should be included in every tourism handbook, kinaree magazine, and check in document in the country. It will come to a point that the vast majority of tourists visiting Thailand will be aware of this scam in a few months and the tuk tuk drivers will see a massive drop in business and more fool them.

That's a good solution, educate the public to avoid tuk tuks at all costs... For a place like Patong, you can walk from one end to the other easily enough, why bother with the blasted things until you absolutely have to?

[britadders28]

In which case, information about negotiating and at all costs avoiding confrontation with tuk tuk drivers (and other types of vendors) and asking questions in Thai about how far and how long a tuk tuk drive will be should be included in every tourism handbook, kinaree magazine, and check in document in the country. It will come to a point that the vast majority of tourists visiting Thailand will be aware of this scam in a few months and the tuk tuk drivers will see a massive drop in business and more fool them.

That's a good solution, educate the public to avoid tuk tuks at all costs... For a place like Patong, you can walk from one end to the other easily enough, why bother with the blasted things until you absolutely have to?

and the swampy airport, skytrain (new scams in headlines now) ,unmetered taxi, overfull boats, racist, xenophbic attitudes, avoid shopping unless tesco etc.. as dual pricing will get you, avoid tuk tuks, avoid the police they will rip you off, avoid the south, avoid north when reds protesting, avoid bkk when anybody protesting, avoid when have internaional meetings, avoid dirty beaches, thai girls that are not protitutes as its illegal they are women that have sex for money, avoid girls that are not girls, avoid the zoos and monkeys and elephants rides as they are treated badly and as buddhist they dont care about animals, dont rent a bike they will con you for damage you didnt cause, anybody see a theme here and not too mention exchange rates, recession and swine flu ha ha ITS THE WHOLE BLOODY COUNTRY WAKE UP, IT WILL NEVER STOP UNTIL TOURIST PROTEST WITH THEIR FEET, THE PROBLEMS WILL JUST MOVE FROM PHUKET OR NEXT IT WILL BE PHUKET JET SKI MAFIA OR PATTAYA TUK TUK DRIVERS!!!!!