Crew Members Beg Kazakh Leader For Help

[webfact]

NORTH KOREAN ARM PLANE

Crew beg Kazakh leader for help

By The Nation

Published on January 14, 2010

The five suspects claim their detention unfair, complain about inhumane conditions in prison

The five foreign crew members arrested after their armsladen cargo plane was seized in Don Mueang airport in December have posted an online petition asking Kazakhstan's president to help save them from the mistreatment they are allegedly undergoing at the hands of Thai authorities.

In the statement, written in the Russian language and posted on a website with a Kazakhstan country domain, the five men called for President Nursultan Nazarbayev to step in and get them out of detention that is a "violation of their rights and freedom" and is based on "false allegations".

Apart from the pilot, Mikhail Petukhov, who is Belarusian, the remaining crew - Ilias Isakov, Alexander Zrybnev, Viktor Abdullaev and Vitaly Shumkov - are Kazakh. They said their Il76 Georgia registered aircraft, flight AWG731/732, was flying from Pyongyang to Kiev under a contract with Air West Georgia under a charter deal signed with the Ukrainebased AirTech.

The crew claim that on December 11, their plane was loaded with 35 tonnes of "machinery" that they were not allowed to inspect at the Pyongyang airport.

The statement also cited other destinations included in the flight log - information authorities had not made public earlier. The route listed in the log was Kiev-Baku-Fujairah-Bangkok-Pyongyang-Bangkok-Colombo-Fujairah-Kiev.

"The containers looked like those used to store oilrig machines. And anyway, it's not our business to look at the cargo - the responsibility of identifying and inspecting cargo is up to the customs and immigration procedures of the country of its origin," the petition read. "We would have refused to provide our service had we known or been aware that the cargo was military equipment.

"We landed in Bangkok on December 11 and customs and immigration officials approached our aircraft and ordered its seizure. The day after, a large number of troops showed up to take away the cargo. The containers were opened without our presence before we were charged and arrested for transporting military cargo."

The five men also complained that their pretrail detention at the Bangkok Remand Prison was "amid inmates convicted of serious crimes". According to them, there are about 30 or 40 inmates in the detention cell "where we sleep on the floor on thin blankets, without a pillow or any light at night.

"The food is not appetising and in some ways, beyond anything considered 'appropriate for eating'," the statement said.

"We later learned from the media that we were flying 40 tonnes of military equipment without permission, which, under Thai law, subjects us to between 10 years and a life term in prison. What is this? We were just flying civilian cargo under a contract. Authorities in the country where the flight started should be held liable.

"We are just couriers, working as employees for the airliner and under contract with the company that chartered the flight."

Yesterday, the Crime Suppression Division, the main police unit handling the investigation, handed its conclusion of the case to public prosecutors who will later decide whether or when to indict the five suspects.

-- The Nation 2010-01-14

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[geriatrickid]

Hopefully their begging for pity will be ignored much like the non combatants that beg for their lives only to be killed by the people using the weapons these thugs distribute. Let these people rot in jail for a long time.

[b19bry]

"The food is not appetising and in some ways, beyond anything considered 'appropriate for eating'," the statement said.

Coming from a bunch of ex-Soviets that has to be a pretty damning indictment !

[animatic]

Hopefully their begging for pity will be ignored much like the non combatants that beg for their lives only to be killed by the people using the weapons these thugs distribute. Let these people rot in jail for a long time.

We can agree on this.

[khundon]

From the Nation.

"We are just couriers, working as employees for the airliner and under contract with the company that chartered the flight."

A bit like drug "mules" then.

Don't drop the soap lads.

[cdnvic]

What captain with a lick of sense would allow uninspected cargo on his aircraft?

[LaoPo]

What captain with a lick of sense would allow uninspected cargo on his aircraft?

That's quite a statement cdnvic...

But what captain KNOWS what is on his ship with thousands of containers ? There are ships* with more than 10,000 x 20 ft containers; (ten-thousand) but in fact even many more; up to 15,000 20ft containers; can anyone imagine such a number?

Does anyone believe that any captain and his staff will actually read thousands and thousands of cargo bills ?

I know for a fact that in just one 20 foot container many shipping agents can store their merchandise. I also know that Customs and Tax authorities just randomly check a few containers on such a large ship since it's absolutely impossible to check 10 to 15,000 containers or better said: TEU (twenty-foot equivalent units)

Is this captain and his crew guilty/responsible if there are weapons found on board?..and, if the ship would be seized by the Thai navy and the captain is British, American, Dutch...and the crew Philippines (like in many cases) and thrown in jail.....how would we react?

On a smaller scale it's the same in airplanes.

I'm not saying these guys didn't know but so far they haven't been brought to justice and in our western view anybody who isn't convicted is not yet guilty.

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_M%C3%A6rsk

LaoPo

Edited January 14, 2010 by LaoPo

[brahmburgers]

To me it's not a black or white scenario. Yes, they're like mules who got caught transporting illegal substances/materials. Even Thai justice, which is highly subjective, should not get too carried away in their zeal to make them suffer - as it's playing out on the world stage, and is a chance for Thailand to make headlines.

Punish the guys if they're found guilty of transporting illegal cargo, with, ....something like 6 to 18 months in prison. Any more than that is flat-out cruelty.

[craigt3365]

My good friend is a cargo pilot for JAL. We have chatted about this since they were arrested. He spends a lot of time in BKK when he has time off. According to him, they knew exactly what was going on. Got paid good money to do this, but just looked the other way. Just like drug mules. You carry a package, don't know exactly what is in it, but you do know it is illegal...you get paid a bunch of dough...or for them Tenge...and hope you don't get caught. If you do, you plead ingorance...while eating som tam in jail!

The sad thing is these guys are just mules...it would be great if they could get the big fish. But as we all know, that will never happen.

[Colabamumbai]

So the food and living conditions would be just like at home then.

[animatic]

What captain with a lick of sense would allow uninspected cargo on his aircraft?

That's quite a statement cdnvic...

But what captain KNOWS what is on his ship with thousands of containers ? There are ships* with more than 10,000 x 20 ft containers; (ten-thousand) but in fact even many more; up to 15,000 20ft containers; can anyone imagine such a number?

Does anyone believe that any captain and his staff will actually read thousands and thousands of cargo bills ?

I know for a fact that in just one 20 foot container many shipping agents can store their merchandise. I also know that Customs and Tax authorities just randomly check a few containers on such a large ship since it's absolutely impossible to check 10 to 15,000 containers or better said: TEU (twenty-foot equivalent units)

Is this captain and his crew guilty/responsible if there are weapons found on board?..and, if the ship would be seized by the Thai navy and the captain is British, American, Dutch...and the crew Philippines (like in many cases) and thrown in jail.....how would we react?

On a smaller scale it's the same in airplanes.

I'm not saying these guys didn't know but so far they haven't been brought to justice and in our western view anybody who isn't convicted is not yet guilty.

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_M%C3%A6rsk

LaoPo

This is clearly NOT A SHIP... this is an aircraft.

Even the biggest Russian cargo plane will not hold "10,000 x 20 ft containers"

And the captain of any sailing vessel still signs and is legally responsible for his cargo manifest.

Plus customs is individual to each port, and many xray containers,

and container inspections can happen at any time.

The AIRCRAFT CAPTAIN was either very bent or just plain stupid

to not know what the North Koreans were loading on his plane.

Why do ships alleged to carry weapons from North Korea immediately turn around and return,

when confronted with a sea search, if the Captain didn't KNOW he had contraband on board....?

This guy in Bangkok knew exactly what he carried, and was no doubt paid quite well for the risk.

But he has so far lost his bad bet.

And lets add ; under French law it is hard to get charged by the magistrate,

a high burdon of proof needed,but once you ARE charged you are presumed guilty,

and must prove your innocence in court.

Hard to argue that France is not the West either.

Edited January 15, 2010 by animatic

[LaoPo]

What captain with a lick of sense would allow uninspected cargo on his aircraft?

That's quite a statement cdnvic...

But what captain KNOWS what is on his ship with thousands of containers ? There are ships* with more than 10,000 x 20 ft containers; (ten-thousand) but in fact even many more; up to 15,000 20ft containers; can anyone imagine such a number?

Does anyone believe that any captain and his staff will actually read thousands and thousands of cargo bills ?

I know for a fact that in just one 20 foot container many shipping agents can store their merchandise. I also know that Customs and Tax authorities just randomly check a few containers on such a large ship since it's absolutely impossible to check 10 to 15,000 containers or better said: TEU (twenty-foot equivalent units)

Is this captain and his crew guilty/responsible if there are weapons found on board?..and, if the ship would be seized by the Thai navy and the captain is British, American, Dutch...and the crew Philippines (like in many cases) and thrown in jail.....how would we react?

On a smaller scale it's the same in airplanes.

I'm not saying these guys didn't know but so far they haven't been brought to justice and in our western view anybody who isn't convicted is not yet guilty.

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_M%C3%A6rsk

LaoPo

This is clearly NOT A SHIP... this is an aircraft.

Even the biggest Russian cargo plane will not hold "10,000 x 20 ft containers"

And the captain of any sailing vessel still signs and is legally responsible for his cargo manifest.

Plus customs is individual to each port, and many xray containers,

and container inspections can happen at any time.

The AIRCRAFT CAPTAIN was either very bent or just plain stupid

to not know what the North Koreans were loading on his plane.

Why do ships alleged to carry weapons from North Korea immediately turn around and return,

when confronted with a sea search, if the Captain didn't KNOW he had contraband on board....?

This guy in Bangkok knew exactly what he carried, and was no doubt paid quite well for the risk.

But he has so far lost his bad bet.

And lets add ; under French law it is hard to get charged by the magistrate,

a high burdon of proof needed,but once you ARE charged you are presumed guilty,

and must prove your innocence in court.

Hard to argue that France is not the West either.

My answer was about the "captain" and "uninspected cargo" versus a ship and the responsibility in both scenarios. I meant to say that on a ship the possibility of weapons is even greater than on an airplane.

But you already gave the answer. The (ship's) captain IS responsible..but..is he ? Is he legally responsible for the freight inside 10,000 containers ?

The point is that some of you (and yourself) KNOW absolutely for 100% that the guy knew he was transporting those guns...how do you know ?

And, isn't somebody innocent until proven guilty ?

LaoPo

[connel707]

What captain with a lick of sense would allow uninspected cargo on his aircraft?

That's quite a statement cdnvic...

But what captain KNOWS what is on his ship with thousands of containers ? There are ships* with more than 10,000 x 20 ft containers; (ten-thousand) but in fact even many more; up to 15,000 20ft containers; can anyone imagine such a number?

Does anyone believe that any captain and his staff will actually read thousands and thousands of cargo bills ?

I know for a fact that in just one 20 foot container many shipping agents can store their merchandise. I also know that Customs and Tax authorities just randomly check a few containers on such a large ship since it's absolutely impossible to check 10 to 15,000 containers or better said: TEU (twenty-foot equivalent units)

Is this captain and his crew guilty/responsible if there are weapons found on board?..and, if the ship would be seized by the Thai navy and the captain is British, American, Dutch...and the crew Philippines (like in many cases) and thrown in jail.....how would we react?

On a smaller scale it's the same in airplanes.

I'm not saying these guys didn't know but so far they haven't been brought to justice and in our western view anybody who isn't convicted is not yet guilty.

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_M%C3%A6rsk

LaoPo

This was an aeroplane, not a cargo ship... easy to check the cargo, especially if coming from North Korea.... what did they think it was ...fur coats...

[animatic]

A ships captain is legally responible for every single item on his ship from

the radio antenna, through the bath mats and shower soap to the keelson.

As well as the actions of the ship if he is on board, or off it he is signed as captain.

Well considering the world wide prevalence of 'Made In North Korea' labels,

on so many items on store shelves it's easy to confuse the only products

they are publicly known to ship outside, ie arms and nuclear technologies; contraband items,

and all their 'massively profitable, world wide trade in legitimate stuff'.

Yes that is sarcasm and irony mixed.

If ANY North Korean wanted me to transport something I would assume it

could get me in a lot of trouble, and assume if I can't inspect it,

I don't want to be near it let alone responsible for it.

But hey, with your stated 30+ years of connections with PRC and greater China's area,

as a self acknowledged 'old china hand' you should know what these guys ship out.

Edited January 15, 2010 by animatic

[webfact]

NORTH KOREAN ARMS SMUGGLING

Prosecution order expected next week

By The Nation

The police have submitted their report on the five pilot and crew involved in the arms smuggling case from North Korea and public prosecutors are expected to complete a review by next week, chief criminal proscutor Kraisit Pitsawongprakan said on Friday.

The prosecution order should complete in time for the next remand hearing, scheduled for Monday, he said.

The five are pilot Mikhail Petukhov from Belarus and four crew, Ilias Isakov, Alexander Zrybnev, Viktor Abdullaev and Vitaly Shumkov from Kazakhstan.

In their report, police have recommended for five charges related to criminal, aviation and customs laws. If convicted, the maximum penalty is life imprisonment.

-- The Nation 2010-01-15

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[LaoPo]

But hey, with your stated 30+ years of connections with PRC and greater China's area,

as a self acknowledged 'old china hand' you should know what these guys ship out.

The baiting and sarcastic comment isn't necessary Animatic; I wasn't baiting nor sarcastic so why you?

You're attacking the messenger, not the content.

You also didn't give an answer to my question: "And, isn't somebody innocent until proven guilty ?" but of course you didn't since you know already that they are guilty but at the same time you also didn't answer my question HOW you know so ......

LaoPo

[animatic]

But hey, with your stated 30+ years of connections with PRC and greater China's area,

as a self acknowledged 'old china hand' you should know what these guys ship out.

The baiting and sarcastic comment isn't necessary Animatic; I wasn't baiting nor sarcastic so why you?

You're attacking the messenger, not the content.

You also didn't give an answer to my question: "And, isn't somebody innocent until proven guilty ?" but of course you didn't since you know already that they are guilty but at the same time you also didn't answer my question HOW you know so ......

LaoPo

That wasn't sarcasm, but clearly irony.

Based on your own past statements.

I did give an answer to your question, based on French law,

that clearly refuted your blanket assumption BEFORE,

but you ignored that and asked again.

[LaoPo]

But hey, with your stated 30+ years of connections with PRC and greater China's area,

as a self acknowledged 'old china hand' you should know what these guys ship out.

The baiting and sarcastic comment isn't necessary Animatic; I wasn't baiting nor sarcastic so why you?

You're attacking the messenger, not the content.

You also didn't give an answer to my question: "And, isn't somebody innocent until proven guilty ?" but of course you didn't since you know already that they are guilty but at the same time you also didn't answer my question HOW you know so ......

LaoPo

That wasn't sarcasm, but clearly irony.

Based on your own past statements.

I did give an answer to your question, based on French law,

that clearly refuted your blanket assumption BEFORE,

but you ignored that and asked again.

You're a funny man talking French law in a North Korean, Thailand, and Eastern Europe related case about an airplane with weapons for an unclear destination.

Ah well...La Douce France

LaoPo