Views On Chiang Mai Vs Bkk / Pattaya

[wineaux]

The OP asked/stated:

"The main (perceived) benefits for me are slighty cooler climate (in Winter), potential better cycling opportunities,...."

I assume you're talking about bicycling. The road cycling here is great and I'm sure the mountain biking has got Bangkok beat too. 15 riders on our regular group ride yesterday morning. Perfect weather too.

Yes I meant road cycling so good to hear. I bought my road bike over from the UK and after 2/3 rides in Pattaya I packed it away again...

So how bad is this periodic pollution I hear about? does it just affect the city centre?

[wineaux]

Thakkar out of your cons list these 3 are about my only concerns;

Serious pollution, though intermittent, during the period between mid-February to mid- April every year

No seriously good Indian restaurant; no South Indian food

Bad driving

Although all 3 I experience at the moment in BKK. Ok there are decent indian restos here but in the last year I haven't been once as it simply takes too long to get there.

[Priceless]

Thakkar out of your cons list these 3 are about my only concerns;

Serious pollution, though intermittent, during the period between mid-February to mid- April every year

No seriously good Indian restaurant; no South Indian food

Bad driving

Although all 3 I experience at the moment in BKK. Ok there are decent indian restos here but in the last year I haven't been once as it simply takes too long to get there.

Indian restaurants and bad driving I'll leave for others to comment on. The pollution levels look as follows (unfortunately there are no measurements for Pattaya, so you'll have to make do with Chon Buri):

As you can see, March in Chiang Mai is seriously worse, February and April are comparable and the rest of the year is better to much better in CM.

I hope this may be of help in making up your own mind.

/ Priceless

[siggie2]

Thakkar out of your cons list these 3 are about my only concerns;

Serious pollution, though intermittent, during the period between mid-February to mid- April every year

No seriously good Indian restaurant; no South Indian food

Bad driving

Although all 3 I experience at the moment in BKK. Ok there are decent indian restos here but in the last year I haven't been once as it simply takes too long to get there.

Indian restaurants and bad driving I'll leave for others to comment on. The pollution levels look as follows (unfortunately there are no measurements for Pattaya, so you'll have to make do with Chon Buri):

As you can see, March in Chiang Mai is seriously worse, February and April are comparable and the rest of the year is better to much better in CM.

I hope this may be of help in making up your own mind.

/ Priceless

The chart is showing that Pattaya air pollution increases during rainyseason.I thought it would reduce as the rain will wash a percentage away.

[Priceless]

Thakkar out of your cons list these 3 are about my only concerns;

Serious pollution, though intermittent, during the period between mid-February to mid- April every year

No seriously good Indian restaurant; no South Indian food

Bad driving

Although all 3 I experience at the moment in BKK. Ok there are decent indian restos here but in the last year I haven't been once as it simply takes too long to get there.

Indian restaurants and bad driving I'll leave for others to comment on. The pollution levels look as follows (unfortunately there are no measurements for Pattaya, so you'll have to make do with Chon Buri):

As you can see, March in Chiang Mai is seriously worse, February and April are comparable and the rest of the year is better to much better in CM.

I hope this may be of help in making up your own mind.

/ Priceless

The chart is showing that Pattaya air pollution increases during rainyseason.I thought it would reduce as the rain will wash a percentage away.

The rainy season in Chon Buri is May - October (average 16.3 rainy days/month), which is also when the pollution levels are the lowest. During November - April, when pollution is high, there are only four rainy days per month, on average.

/ Priceless

[Thakkar]

Thakkar out of your cons list these 3 are about my only concerns;

Serious pollution, though intermittent, during the period between mid-February to mid- April every year

No seriously good Indian restaurant; no South Indian food

Bad driving

Although all 3 I experience at the moment in BKK. Ok there are decent indian restos here but in the last year I haven't been once as it simply takes too long to get there.

Re: your concerns. Please allow me to make some suggestions:

Bad driving

Most driving will consist of taking your kids to school and back, grocery shopping, eating out and kids' activities like swimming, movies, sleepovers, etc. Reduce necessary travel distances by living near the kids' school and a major market and shopping area. Splurge on a safer car.

You can avoid a whole chunk of bad driving by not driving at night thus avoiding inebriated drivers and bad visibility—two major causes of accidents. There's little interesting night life anyway so you won't be missing much.

No seriously good Indian restaurant; no South Indian food

Make do without. There's plenty of other decent grub. Or learn to cook Indian, most necessary ingredients are easily available. Pretty good frozen Nan's too if you don't want to make your own chapatties. As for me, I regularly travel to HK for work and other reasons and while there, eat myself silly at the several very good South Indian restaurants.

Serious pollution, though intermittent, during the period between mid-February to mid- April every year

For many, it seems this is the one thing that kills the deal because when you have kids in school, you can't just leave town for several weeks to escape the pollution. You'll just have to come and see for yourselves how far your family's tolerance for this will go and whether the pros outweigh this major albeit short-period con.

[Asmerom]

There's the everyday farmers market wholesale place all around the Tessaban. It's supperb.

There is lots of classical music at Payab. Get on their mailing list. CMU has some as well.

1. Could you please clarify the first sentence. I simply don't understand it. And I'm interested.

2. "Payab"...........What's that exactly?

3. CMU has classical music? Do you mean live performances?

[elektrified]

There's the everyday farmers market wholesale place all around the Tessaban. It's supperb.

There is lots of classical music at Payab. Get on their mailing list. CMU has some as well.

1. Could you please clarify the first sentence. I simply don't understand it. And I'm interested.

2. "Payab"...........What's that exactly?

3. CMU has classical music? Do you mean live performances?

Just a guess he is referring to Payap University. They have a good musical program with some live performances. Also if you like jazz, Prince Royals College has live jazz performances - as I recall on Sunday afternoons. But perhaps not all year long; only at certain times of the year.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

On the first point, I think he may be referring to Kad Muang Mai (Talad Muang Mai), the wholesale market on the river, near the US consulate.

I think it's a good place, and cheap, but that area is really hard to park a car.. so for all intends and purposes, any casual market (talad nat) around the outskirts have equally cheap prices. Often it's up country / hilltribe folk coming to selll produce at these markets that are schedule a couple times a week in various places.

The one I visit a lot is walking distance from the gated community where I live, which, as almost any gated community, is a bit 'artificialish' and has lots of foreigners renting there, but the fun thing is that when you walk to that market you instantly teleport into 'The Real Thailand' , with people smiling and elbowing each other to note the big Farang coming to shop.. It's brilliant. And between us, I think that also sums up why Chiang Mai is the place: you have the Western amenities and conveniences, but at the core the genuine local hospitality just surrounds you.

Edited January 17, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Priceless]

[...]

I think that also sums up why Chiang Mai is the place: you have the Western amenities and conveniences, but at the core the genuine local hospitality just surrounds you.

Spot on! I wish I had come up with that

/ Priceless

[scotbeve]

I agree with most of the replies here. Been here (in CM) for 23 years and never think of living/leaving for somewhere else. Downsides are the annual burnoff pollution and the drivers.

[el jefe]

The OP asked/stated:

"The main (perceived) benefits for me are slighty cooler climate (in Winter), potential better cycling opportunities,...."

I assume you're talking about bicycling. The road cycling here is great and I'm sure the mountain biking has got Bangkok beat too. 15 riders on our regular group ride yesterday morning. Perfect weather too.

Yes I meant road cycling so good to hear. I bought my road bike over from the UK and after 2/3 rides in Pattaya I packed it away again...

So how bad is this periodic pollution I hear about? does it just affect the city centre?

Hi wineaux,

If you're a decent cyclist, you'll figure out the driving patterns quickly. I'm from the US but there are 4 or 5 Brits in our riding group. All agree that riding here is much better than in the west.

The pollution sucks from mid-Fed til the rains come sometime in late March or April. The last two years, the worst of the pollution was over by March 20. While a few of us take a month off or travel to somewhere with better air, most of us go out and ride anyway. We have no idea what the long-term effects are. You know what they say -- "ride hard, get stupid."

So that takes care of 2 out of your 3 problems. The Indian restaurants do suck though.

Let me know when you're up here and want to go for a ride.

[venturalaw]

I've lived here a few years and wouldn't want to live anywhere else. However, 2 issues. One - lack of international flights have been mentioned, however domestic flights are also a problem. You can not get anywhere easily without first flying to BKK. For instance, hardly any flights if any to Isaan,

Secondly, when I think of hospitals, if anything really serious occurred, I'd want Bumrungrad Hospital in BKK over any hospital here in CM.

That said, the weather in Chiang Mai isn't a little bit cooler - it's WAY cooler here and if you live in the city, taxis come by every 2 - 5 minutes and are very inexpensive. Living just outside of town (10 - 12 minutes by car) and you can live in a guarded mooban; traffic free where people ride bicycles and kids play safely in the streets.

[appleman]

Chiang Mai sucks! The weather sucks, the food sucks, the people suck, the culture sucks. It is the worst place in the world. You definitely should not move here. Please stay away.

From a long-time resident of Chiang Mai

[BlackArtemis]

For me, and probably for a family, I find it nice that the prostitution is less in your face.

Yes you can drive around at night and find spots with girls hanging out etc, but it's tame to other places.

[kjhbigv]

I was in Chiang Mai last year.I wasn't impressed.Prices are to high.I believe the reason to many farangs,they ruin the area.

Absolute ridiculous statement.....prices too high (as others have said) compared to what? I can go to Thai bars behind Carrefour, I pay 45bht for a large bottle of Leo and get free live thai bands (many playing western music)....I can go to many street carts and markets out of town and get fantastic food for 25-30bht a dish.

Too many farangs? In town, yes tourists, but out of the centre? No.

Did you actually get more than 100 yards from Loi Kroh road?

You obviously have no idea what living in Chiang Mai is like!

[BlackArtemis]

I was in Chiang Mai last year.I wasn't impressed.Prices are to high.I believe the reason to many farangs,they ruin the area.

Absolute ridiculous statement.....prices too high (as others have said) compared to what? I can go to Thai bars behind Carrefour, I pay 45bht for a large bottle of Leo and get free live thai bands (many playing western music)....I can go to many street carts and markets out of town and get fantastic food for 25-30bht a dish.

Too many farangs? In town, yes tourists, but out of the centre? No.

Did you actually get more than 100 yards from Loi Kroh road?

You obviously have no idea what living in Chiang Mai is like!

Exactly, I only went to Warm Up and other CMU student hang outs. often I would be one of less than 5 Farangs there.

Eating behind CMU meant there was TONS of cheap and great food.

If you befriend Thais or get into a good relationship with a Thai you will see and experience an entirely different Chiang Mai.

My 1 month tefl class in Phuket was enough of the backpacker world for me...

[kurushektra]

On the first point, I think he may be referring to Kad Muang Mai (Talad Muang Mai), the wholesale market on the river, near the US consulate.

I think it's a good place, and cheap, but that area is really hard to park a car.. so for all intends and purposes, any casual market (talad nat) around the outskirts have equally cheap prices. Often it's up country / hilltribe folk coming to selll produce at these markets that are schedule a couple times a week in various places.

The one I visit a lot is walking distance from the gated community where I live, which, as almost any gated community, is a bit 'artificialish' and has lots of foreigners renting there, but the fun thing is that when you walk to that market you instantly teleport into 'The Real Thailand' ™, with people smiling and elbowing each other to note the big Farang coming to shop.. It's brilliant. And between us, I think that also sums up why Chiang Mai is the place: you have the Western amenities and conveniences, but at the core the genuine local hospitality just surrounds you.

Thanks so much for your comments.

No interrnational flights??? Malaysia, Korea, Japan, Taiwan going East and West. Plenty of international flights

Agree: The pollution is quite the problem....

Agree; Befriend Thai people. They know where the good places are.

To the man who;s been there 23 yrs. Lucky you. I managed 16. Will be back

[ChiangMaiFun]

No, no, no... terrible place CNX full of friendly people, relaxed lifestyle, horrible but yummy places to eat - clean shopping malls - nice and entertaining lovelies... mountains... lakes... etc.

Stay away and enjoy the crummy place that is know as Pattaya with it's aggresive people and wonderful cultural lifestyle

[el jefe]

No interrnational flights??? Malaysia, Korea, Japan, Taiwan going East and West. Plenty of international flights

To the man who;s been there 23 yrs. Lucky you. I managed 16. Will be back

We'll welcome you back, but it won't be from Japan!

We go through this on the CM once a month. When did someone start a CNX-Japan flight?? There are now 6 intl flights from CNX and only two are every day. That's "plenty"?

[wolf5370]

As I live near the airport and fly just once a year or so, I'm quite hapopy there are few international flights - they should run them all from Lamphang then we could make do with with little twin engine jobies instead. Not thnat I'm selfish or anything

[clinique]

I agree with Thakkar on the pro's and Jackr on the con's... our family has been her over 10 years, had kids educated etc,, and love it. My husband works alot in Singapore and Europe, and he finds the Silkair (Singapore airlines ) schedule is great with the direct flights to Changi he can cannect anywhere within a couple of hours...Beats going thru bangkok Suvarnabhumi anyday.

Previously we lived in Bangkok and Hua hin and find Chiangmai 100% better than either.. would recommend it for any family...

[clinique]

Appleman ? so why are you still here ? I couldnt disagree with you more >

[BlackArtemis]

Appleman ? so why are you still here ? I couldnt disagree with you more >

I believe his indicates sarcasm.

[clinique]

Appleman ? so why are you still here ? I couldnt disagree with you more >

I believe his indicates sarcasm.

oops, sorry...

[nan123]

Cons

Lacks proper public transport - yep

Too quiet if you're the sort who likes the hurly-burly of the city - bags a bars, Thai and farang; how many does one need?

Museums, art galleries, orchestral performances, visiting international performances. "hurly-burly of the city" means more than bar life. In fact I wasn't even thinking of nightlife when I wrote that. Big cities have a certain zippy vibe that is attractive to many people. I wanted to convey to the OP that if that was his thing, then he won't find it in CM. And since you bring up nightlife, I'm told that when it comes to clubbing, CM can't hold a candle to BKK. I can't verify that as I haven't gone clubbing in 2 decades.

-0-

Too few cultural venues - Lanna culture, 300 temples, including hilltop temple/palace

See above. I'm not saying there aren't any, just far fewer compared to BKK as it's the comparison the OP is interested in.

-0-

Very limited choice for good live Western music - I''ve only ever come across any in the West

Great venues are thin on the ground in BKK as well, but again, things are worse in CM. in BKK many hotels have a decent band, string quartet or jazz group.

-0-

No serious public library - who needs a library in 2010?

Surely you're just feeling frivolous and being a little flippant, because I can't believe you're serious. Any city worth it's salt should have at least one publicly-funded large, dust-free air conditioned hall filled with thousands of expertly bound volumes where the only requirement to entry is curiosity. The internet doesn't change that.

-0-

Not enough bookstores or choice of books, especially new books - B2S, Airport Plaza

And Bookazine. But book choices in these places are laughable.

-0-

Serious pollution, though intermittent, during the period between mid-February to mid- April every year - better couple months than 365x24/7

Actually it's just a couple of weeks, and most of the rest of the year, it *is* better than BKK, and possibly Pattaya. But during those god-awful weeks, CM is in the 'con' column.

-0-

No seriously good Indian restaurant; no South Indian food - try India or the UK

Again, the comparison is to BKK and Pattaya, both of which have better Indian restaurants. For the *best* Indian restaurants, I believe you are right, that is: UK (not India, unless it's at my mom's )

-0-

No Chinatown with its attendant availability of things Chinese - top end Thanon Chiang Moi

Bangkok's Chinatown is a real Chinatown. The one here is more of a China toytown, but you're right, there is one.

-0-

Too few international flights - Yes, a UK, flight would be nice, although is probably a good thing there isn't one

Come to think of it, I agree. It's a slight inconvenience, but one the whole, it's probably a good thing that there are so few international flights.

-0-

Bad driving - ubiquitous on this continent I'm afraid

Yes, and coupled with lack of public transport means no choice but to venture out in our cars/bikes.

-0-

Not all groceries available - try Rim Ping, everything there.

Yes, plenty of choices at Rimping and Tops Supermarket as well. Not 'everything' though. Both BKK and Pattaya offer wider choices. Still, you're not far off, the OP will not want for much in CM when it comes to groceries.

I assume that like me, you've picked to live in CM, so on the 'pros' we're in agreement.

Chiang Mai is better than Bangkok, because there less polution than Bangkok and also there's not as much cars as in Bangkok. The houses, schools and other thing, I think it is also cheaper than in Bangkok. The weather for Chiang Mai in winter I think was not too cold or too hot in summer as like in Bangkok. For me the best places to be is in Chiang Mai!

[CHIEFOFFICER]

I was in Chiang Mai last year.I wasn't impressed.Prices are to high.I believe the reason to many farangs,they ruin the area.

It's probably the cheapest place to live in Thailand if you know your way around.

you must try Isan (chayiaphum ) it cant be more cheaper than Isan. Lived

here for 20 years and bbk/ C.M. are too expensiv.

Regards Chiefoff.

[moetownblues]

Chiang Mai is probably the cheapest area in Thailand that has lots of things that farangs want: Western and ethnic restaurants, decent bakeries, wine shops, cigar stores, movie rental places, English libraries, erotic nightlife, WE TV, The Red Lion with your host Kevin, The Dukes, etc.

I thought advertising was against the rules The red lion not exactly the best bar in cm

[PeaceBlondie]

Chiang Mai is probably the cheapest area in Thailand that has lots of things that farangs want: Western and ethnic restaurants, decent bakeries, wine shops, cigar stores, movie rental places, English libraries, erotic nightlife, WE TV, The Red Lion with your host Kevin, The Dukes, etc.

I thought advertising was against the rules The red lion not exactly the best bar in cm

Some mentions by customers is permitted. Those two are paying sponsors.

[moetownblues]

Chiang Mai is probably the cheapest area in Thailand that has lots of things that farangs want: Western and ethnic restaurants, decent bakeries, wine shops, cigar stores, movie rental places, English libraries, erotic nightlife, WE TV, The Red Lion with your host Kevin, The Dukes, etc.

I thought advertising was against the rules The red lion not exactly the best bar in cm

Some mentions by customers is permitted. Those two are paying sponsors.

oh ok then I should not say that the red lion is a boring bar. Been there 3 times always completly empty so how do they sponser on here.