Thailand Focuses On High Spending Tourists, Not Numbers

[moetownblues]

Domestically, TAT will go further with its national domestic campaign, "12 months 7 stars and 9 suns", with ads featuring Thai superstar Thongchai "Bird" McIntyre.

"Although we paid a high sum to get him (Thongchai), he has the ability to stimulate a huge tourism movement," said Juthaporn.

Thongchai who??? Ok, he's a dam_n big star in Thailand, no doubt about it. He is getting older so not quite the draw he once was. However, outside of Thailand who the hel_l would know him?

A number of years ago Tata Young, while at the top of her career in Thailand, went to LA to put on a concert. She came back with her head held low after performing in an almost empty concert hall in the USA.

Another failed TAT ad campaign in the making!

"12 months 7 stars and 9 suns",

12 months of TB meds, 7 bouts of herpes, and 9 warts...... after visiting Thailand

Amazing Thailand, Amazing results

well leave the thai women alone stay out of the bars and go see the real Thailand

[livinthailandos]

listen people here's the deal where all taking about TAT, I think were on the same page on this: the people running TAT must be children this would explain a lot actually. Here's my perspective

a. At least next 2 years mininum if a double dip recession doesn't happen prices really need to be more in line with reality.

b. Quit focusing on a single income market. I believe diversity and all incomes should be welcome.

c. Like another member said today's back packer could be thailand's future middle income tourist. try to remember that

d. Hire foreigners to help with many issues ( never going to happen i know ) to help with improvement in thailand

I know lots of people would like to see lots of english speaking thai's but never going to happen. thailand's current system and inability to make any real progress prevents this. Thai Culture and Mentality in some ways also prevents thailand from going forward. Alas nothing me or any of you can do to change anything.

[LaoPo]

Finally found it again, as you will see the data comes from teh Immigration Bureau, Police Dept:

http://www.tourism.go.th/2009/upload/touri...............pdf

Thanks a lot: I didn't see those numbers yet; much appreciated !

LaoPo

Massive drop from Japan, Korea and China. A lot of golfers maybe didn't travel coz of economy and some because of currency. That said, Xmas would have been a big time for this lot to travel, but until the numbers are out, we will never know.

November 2009 numbers are below.

From January > October the overall drop was -10% but November shows an enormous PLUS versus 2008 of +26.34% with countries like China, +111% (93K versus 43K), Hong Kong +90% and Taiwan +80% in the lead for East Asia which had + 30%

Europe overall + 18.24% with countries like Germany +25%, Russia +53%, UK +20%

The Americas: +16,49%

All in all quite remarkable!

THAILANDInternational_Tourist_Arrivals_2008up27Mar09.xls International Tourist Arrivals to Thailand by Nationality NOVEMBER 2009

LaoPo

[backsoon]

Upsetting Westerners is not a part of the picture, the numbers for January to October last year show that most visitors to Thailand come from :

A Malaysia 1,359,220

B Japan 822,767

C United Kingdom 670,904

D China 590,725

E Australia 520,090

F USA 496,812

I wont say who but some posters don't know what they're talking about.

January to October last year. Lucky guy who can get the stats from 01/01/2009 to 31/10/2009.... source ???

OK. That covers a total of 4,460,518... Who are the other 6-7 million? Escimoes? Afgani? ???

When telling fibs, make them at least look true...

[cdnvic]

Day trippers from Malaysia can skew those stats a lot. The amount of room nights is a more accurate portrayal of visitor impact.

[chiang mai]

Upsetting Westerners is not a part of the picture, the numbers for January to October last year show that most visitors to Thailand come from :

A Malaysia 1,359,220

B Japan 822,767

C United Kingdom 670,904

D China 590,725

E Australia 520,090

F USA 496,812

I wont say who but some posters don't know what they're talking about.

January to October last year. Lucky guy who can get the stats from 01/01/2009 to 31/10/2009.... source ???

OK. That covers a total of 4,460,518... Who are the other 6-7 million? Escimoes? Afgani? ???

When telling fibs, make them at least look true...

See the link in post 293 in this thread for the complete set of numbers, the ones you quoted are just the top five.

[chiang mai]

Day trippers from Malaysia can skew those stats a lot. The amount of room nights is a more accurate portrayal of visitor impact.

True, as is the case that the figures for the UK element includes visa runs. But all of these things, visa run candidates, day trippers from Malaysia etc are likely to be consistent from year to year hence comparing the numbers year on year, as LaoPo has done a few posts back, shows that the numbers are actually quite good, by comparison.

[LaoPo]

Day trippers from Malaysia can skew those stats a lot. The amount of room nights is a more accurate portrayal of visitor impact.

True, as is the case that the figures for the UK element includes visa runs. But all of these things, visa run candidates, day trippers from Malaysia etc are likely to be consistent from year to year hence comparing the numbers year on year, as LaoPo has done a few posts back, shows that the numbers are actually quite good, by comparison.

2009 could show a better result for total tourism than all of us anticipated.

HOWEVER, I've always said that the REAL tourism totals are probably in the neighbourhood of between 8-10 million, and with REAL tourists I mean people who go to Thailand one time a year and that's the vast majority. This vast majority comes from East Asia, South Asia (almost 60%) and Europe (27.22%/2008) who take a bite of some 85% of total Thai inbound tourism.

I am not calculating people who have enough time and money to travel 4-6 or more time to Thailand. These are most likely western tourists and are a minority although it seems that most of them visit TV a lot

It's the same if one looks at the enormous amounts of inbound tourists Malaysia claims: 23 million But if you start looking closer one will see that this number includes 11 million Singaporean tourists. On top of that also repeating "tourists" from Thailand of course.

Is this number, 11 million, a total of one-time tourists only...???

Come on: they have only 5 million people

That's exactly the scenario also in Thailand and we should not forget that the number of Singaporeans is a REAL number of people with a passport from Singapore! So, a majority of S'poreans travel at least 3, 4 or even many more times into Malaysia.

So, adding all those expats, border runners and people like my Swedish friend who travels to China about 7 times/year, staying each time 1 or 2 nights in BKK (total 14 times a counted tourist) and both in- and outbound, it comes to high numbers.

That's why I think 8-10 million is a fair number but may even a little lower.

LaoPo

[chiang mai]

Whilst your logic and math regarding REAL tourist numbers is correct and appropriate, it's also a tad misleading - the headline numbers produced by TAT don't factor in the aspects that you have included thus most people can only relate to the all inclusive numbers, the risk therefore is that people may begin to compare apples and fudge brownies. Me, I'd go with the all inclusive figures but it's nevertheless interesting to know the true numbers.

[LaoPo]

Whilst your logic and math regarding REAL tourist numbers is correct and appropriate, it's also a tad misleading - the headline numbers produced by TAT don't factor in the aspects that you have included thus most people can only relate to the all inclusive numbers, the risk therefore is that people may begin to compare apples and fudge brownies. Me, I'd go with the all inclusive figures but it's nevertheless interesting to know the true numbers.

That's the logic within the logic and true

Of course the TAT wouldn't even dream about publishing the facts about border runners and Malaysians, entering multiple times; that would mean cuts on their budgets they receive

LaoPo

[JulesMad]

My experiences with TAT are just bad! They only take your money every 2 yrs, and give nothing in return. You have to pay them hefty deposits (100,000 THB and up), just because you have a website....

For me, they are just another form of mafia just like the tuktuks and longtails.... Only better organized!

[johnswift1956]

TAT may not be too much off the mark in their statement. They are likely to be reponding to the bigger/expensive holiday hotels and resorts. These new establishments are opening all the time and Pattaya will be like all the rest of the tourist sector eager to get them to invest in the area. One example of this is that Pattaya has now an Holiday Inn which is a minimum of 3000bt per night to stay there. These are the well heeled tourists, I would think that it is not full of retirement/long stayers or any one staying 2 months or more. Phuket I am sure has similar aspirations.

With all the new computer registation required by immigration and the police at hotels, etc, surely TAT would get the true number of tourist staying per night in Thailand. Tourists stay in hotels and any place that lets rooms on short terms. Visitors can get a visa for a maximum of 2 months so any staying over this cannot be tourists.

Visas issued at borders are so very misleading!

Within the UK we get the same misleading tourist figures. Day trippers, one night stays, one week stays all get listed as a tourist. We have a drop of 90% leaving 10% of the number of rooms booked per night. Ask Blackpool and such like. I wonder how many border runs are counted within Cambodia and Lao as tourists?

Does anyone know the true number of tourists booking rooms per night and how this relates to past years?

[LaoPo]

Does anyone know the true number of tourists booking rooms per night and how this relates to past years?

You can find them here:

http://www.tourism.go.th/2009/en/statistic...rism.php?cid=26

LaoPo

[pigneguy]

Thailand needs to rid itself of the opportunistic, old, pot bellied, caucasian men who prey on Thailand's disenfranchised for cheap sex, the disrespectful who drink themselves into brawls and stupors.... and the purveyors of bad taste and crass views who perpetuate the gutter.

The mindless rabble in this forum, who whine and look down upon the Thais, would be a good place to start. Your disrespect for the 'other' is beyond disturbing.

[anon8]

johnswift1956,

the Holiday Inn in Pattaya.. true, walk in rate is 3000 baht per night. However, it is filled with tourist groups flown in from India, and very much lower room rate is applyed. At night these groups can be spotted walking up and down Beach Rd, trying to make up their mind about 500 baht investments for the night.

Royal Cliff is full of Russian package groups, by no means poor, most are not spenders. If there's hi end tourism hiding in Thailand, it is not in Pattaya

[Thai at Heart]

Thailand needs to rid itself of the opportunistic, old, pot bellied, caucasian men who prey on Thailand's disenfranchised for cheap sex, the disrespectful who drink themselves into brawls and stupors.... and the purveyors of bad taste and crass views who perpetuate the gutter.

The mindless rabble in this forum, who whine and look down upon the Thais, would be a good place to start. Your disrespect for the 'other' is beyond disturbing.

Now, we would all want to know why the country should say "boo" to such a customer. The laws are written, enforce them as you see fit.

But as foreigners, don't lecture and put away your bible. If you are Thai go clean it up.

Looking down on Thais???? Get their daughters off walking street then they can get some respect. How decent Thais can sleep at night knowing this place exists I don't know.

[johnswift1956]

Thailand needs to rid itself of the opportunistic, old, pot bellied, caucasian men who prey on Thailand's disenfranchised for cheap sex, the disrespectful who drink themselves into brawls and stupors.... and the purveyors of bad taste and crass views who perpetuate the gutter.

The mindless rabble in this forum, who whine and look down upon the Thais, would be a good place to start. Your disrespect for the 'other' is beyond disturbing.

Now, we would all want to know why the country should say "boo" to such a customer. The laws are written, enforce them as you see fit.

But as foreigners, don't lecture and put away your bible. If you are Thai go clean it up.

Looking down on Thais???? Get their daughters off walking street then they can get some respect. How decent Thais can sleep at night knowing this place exists I don't know.

How many farmers and they wifes in Thailand know they daughters are there in Walking Street? My Thai father in law was shocked when I took him there on one of our holidays. The girls in the village never tell their parents that they work there.

Police will not enforce any of the closing as it is all mafia based and they get a cut.

I wonder it TAT go with Walking Street and the bars or wish it to disappear. I have never seen TAT to make a statement either way.

[salty]

Thailand needs to rid itself of the opportunistic, old, pot bellied, caucasian men who prey on Thailand's disenfranchised for cheap sex, the disrespectful who drink themselves into brawls and stupors.... and the purveyors of bad taste and crass views who perpetuate the gutter.

The mindless rabble in this forum, who whine and look down upon the Thais, would be a good place to start. Your disrespect for the 'other' is beyond disturbing.

As well as the mature men in reasonable shape who are attracted by Thai ladies like a few drinks bother no one, and are respectful to Thais except those trying to scam them and show no respect in return.

[thailandfaq]

Every time Thailand has a crisis and a drop in tourism - they start panicing and offering all these attractive things like free visas to attract anyone and everyone.

Then they arent fussy

Once the crisis abates and they think everything is ok they get all fussy and snobby and picky , and change their immigration rules time after time to suit the situation.

They should consider the fact that if they force a situation that only permits rich people to come here, that in crisis situations, it is precisely the rich faction who read msn cbs, foxnews and yahoo as their homepage and their chief source of information who will be too afraid to come. And the googlers and people who do things on a budget who take no notice of what the mainstream news says and just go for it anyway.

Beggars cant be choosers and in the end what is going to mess them up in the long run is not the pickiness, rather the constant everchanging rules and "cant make our mind up" syndrome which makes the traveller insecure about the situation.

The only real reasons which Thailand still manages to be able to get away with such madness is

1. All the surrounding countries haven't opened up in the same way as Thailand yet (Vietnam, Cambodia, Burma and Laos - ill leave Malaysia out of it as i personally really dislike the place and dont count it as competition)

2. Even if they did, those countries aren't half as paradisical as Thailand.

So yes the TAT have one good point; Thailand has a lot which we desire and not many other places in the world can offer such a wonderful place to live. But as fars as tourist influx goes i personally believe that it is impossible to filter certain factions out and others not when you consider the unstable political situation which is always in flux - one slump will be enough for them to temporarily change the rule back and forth depending on how much they need the rest of the tourist types or not.

Total madness and snobbiness and self conceited as far as i am concerned.

Sometimes i find myself wishing that we had a mega economical depression and the baht fell to 150 baht a dollar or something then youd see the tat waving welcome flags at every hippy in fisherman pants and dreadlocks who arrived

[nakachalet]

....One example of this is that Pattaya has now an Holiday Inn which is a minimum of 3000bt per night to stay there. These are the well heeled tourists,....

--------

surely you are not serious about holiday inn and its glory.... particularly the well heeled tourists, are you?

i stayed at holiday inn when the price was about 12 usd per night while i was traveling between ND in south bend, indiana and PU....

holiday inn chain is really not the 'recognized class' in the states, imho....

however many asian seem to like it and esteem it, probably because their sons and daughters et cetera were frequenting this chain for one reason or another, while they were traveling in the states....

in my experience, holiday inn is just slightly better than most motel 8.... ever heard of motel 8?.... LOL

it sure brought back alot of youthful memories among.... best western, holiday inn, motel 8 and flying J.... LOL

Edited January 22, 2010 by nakachalet

[nakachalet]

The only real reasons which Thailand still manages to be able to get away with such madness is

1. All the surrounding countries haven't opened up in the same way as Thailand yet (Vietnam, Cambodia, Burma and Laos - ill leave Malaysia out of it as i personally really dislike the place and dont count it as competition)....

2. Even if they did, those countries aren't half as paradisical as Thailand.

-------

i have a contrary opinion on malaysia....

i wonder which parts of malaysia did you visit and found it to be dislikeable?

we frequented malaysia including s'pore often, sometimes when we really are hungry of some authentic chinese food, we head for penang, the little paradise....

to us the only drawback in malaysia seems to be their attitudes toward alcohol and stuff that we like but that they consider taboo in their culture and religion....

even there, there seems to be contradiction.... like.... well.... polygamy (did i spell it right?) <got so excited just thinking about polygamy! lol....> or example.... being able to have some four wives legally....

well, won't it be awesome.... if women could likewise also have four husbands.... legally.... LOL

[ding]

Day trippers from Malaysia can skew those stats a lot. The amount of room nights is a more accurate portrayal of visitor impact.

That's right. A bi-monthly one night snapshot including;

country of origin

number of people in occupancy

percent empty rooms

[mommysboy]

Whilst your logic and math regarding REAL tourist numbers is correct and appropriate, it's also a tad misleading - the headline numbers produced by TAT don't factor in the aspects that you have included thus most people can only relate to the all inclusive numbers, the risk therefore is that people may begin to compare apples and fudge brownies. Me, I'd go with the all inclusive figures but it's nevertheless interesting to know the true numbers.

THE REALITY IS SURELY WHAT'S HAPPENING ON THE GROUND. TALK FIGURES ALL YOU WANT IT MATTERS NOT A JOT!

[Tanaka]

I would like to apply as governor for international marketing at TAT.

I have no idea about tourism, but I am still confident I can do a better job than the current managment

Won't work. There is only one "qualification" needed for this job. You have to be thai. You don't even need a tuktuk licens although I think it is regarded an asset if you have one.

[dude007]

Quote:Thailand is like no other place in the world

where else get tourists beaten up by tuk-tuk drivers.But on the other hand high rollers are probably using helicopters.

Low intelligent female thought from a [new] dumb authority... Immaturity at its best! We've heard this already before but the lessons have not been learnt. It's finally confirmed now that tuk-tuk drivers in Phuket can raise their starting price to 800 THB/drive/person and beat them up if they do not agree. That will keep away the low-budget tourists at least and that's the goal!

What a dumb thinking... typical Thai style!

[dude007]

listen people here's the deal where all taking about TAT, I think were on the same page on this: the people running TAT must be children this would explain a lot actually. Here's my perspective

a. At least next 2 years mininum if a double dip recession doesn't happen prices really need to be more in line with reality.

b. Quit focusing on a single income market. I believe diversity and all incomes should be welcome.

c. Like another member said today's back packer could be thailand's future middle income tourist. try to remember that

d. Hire foreigners to help with many issues ( never going to happen i know ) to help with improvement in thailand

I know lots of people would like to see lots of english speaking thai's but never going to happen. thailand's current system and inability to make any real progress prevents this. Thai Culture and Mentality in some ways also prevents thailand from going forward. Alas nothing me or any of you can do to change anything.

Your "d." is a hit on the nail's head! Straight in the bull's eye! That's the solution, that's the real progress and this is the only one which will be successful! All the rest is bla bla bla from farang hating/money loving Thais...

Edited February 1, 2010 by dude007

[dude007]

Age 20 - Tour Thailand as a broke backpacker, fall in love with the place, accept it's quirks and flaws, while spending $30 a day.

Age 30 - Return for your honeymoon. Spend most of the time in your bungalow, but still manage to spend $150 per day.

Age 35 - Return with the kids. You enjoy the beaches, they get to ride an elephant. Now spending $300 a day.

Age 40 - Second honeymoon, kids at granny's house. After 10 years you spend a lot more time shopping than anything, and spend $400 a day at a prime resort.

Age 50 - You're experience in the country prompts your boss to send you to Bangkok to build business contacts. You spend $500 a day and your boss spends much more importing Thai goods now.

Age 60 - You retire to your favourite holiday spot, contributing several thousand a month to the local economy and investing $60000 in a little condo.

Or......

You show up at 40, less open minded, having never experienced Thailand before, balk at the shoddy sidewalks, dangling electric wires, and luxury hotels that cost the same as they do in countries that are just as warm with much better infrastructure. You spend $400 a day, go home complaining and never come back.

AGREE

ALSO AGREE

[dumball]

Think a lot of them have already diverted here , sat on the river side again today and still droves of tourists (White) , groups/families and singles , noticed many Koreans also but not good at differentiating Asians .

[dman961]

I'm a high spending tourist because i live in thailand. maybe thats all they want? I havn't read the posts in this thread, fk me, there are too many (352). Who cares as long as I keep spending, got two kids, a wife, a house. a car, a bike... so got to, but i'm still a tourist... haahahahahahhahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! owwwww!

[junglist]

I love Thailand but the people in charge of the country and it's scams are NUTS. Do these people have brains or just imagine up ridiculous new schemes thinking that no one else has tried them before.

Sigh...

Thailand can be a great country if not for the corruption and often not ridiculous policies.

Amen Brother Amen, to bad you are preaching to the choir. You nailed it.